The COVID-2019 Thread

[Bettyboo]

make an effective antigen that locks onto the virus?

You dumbarse.

Antigen binding site if you prefer that term.

Are you still against wearing facemasks?

Did you bother to read the article I posted which clearly stated the the workings (though seemingly not clear to you...)? Or, as always, you just ignore the facts, look for some spelling error then throw abuse...

[nidhogg]

Antigen binding site if you prefer that term.

Are you still against wearing facemasks?

You mean me, the WHO and the NIH CDC?

Did you bother to read the article I posted which clearly stated the the workings (though seemingly not clear to you...)? Or, as always, you just ignore the facts, look for some spelling error then throw abuse...

Boo, ask yourself seriously, if you do not know the difference between an antibody and an antigen - should you be polluting this thread with your crap?

[NamPikToot]

Not again...can we agree to disagree on Antigens.

The whole Trump thing is mad, we all knew he's raving idiot but he is in stratospheric denial about the seriousness of the virus if it gets out of control. I feel for the people he is supposed to be governing in the US. Granted the UK response, driven as it has been by "experts" has been confused and halting but at least we seem to have got to where we should have been over a week ago.

Trump thinks this is a 3 week storm in a coffee cup and by Easter people will be jetting off to Europe, instead of seeing ICUs filling as a result of a lack of coordinated country wide response, he should be locked up along with his advisers and whoever else buys into this bullshit.

[OhOh]

whoever else buys into this bullshit.

Judging by the US$ continuing appreciation, plenty seem to continue to follow the flock ram.

[Seekingasylum]

The difficulty is that the virus can remain within the body for a significant period before the immune system realises something is wrong and sends in the troops and the big howitzer of T-cells etc to vanquish the intruder. The problem in some folk is that in repelling the enemy the troops go into hyperactivity and produce a cytokine storm that not only obliterates the viral antigens but overwhelms the organs most affected by them. This is what is happening to the old, the sick and it seems the geneticaly pre-disposed who are dying from heart failure induced by an inability to breathe because the lungs have become so inflamed by the cytokine storm.

Also, it is becoming more apparent that prolonged exposure to an infected source can increase the viral load in the newly infected precipitating a more prolonged battle between the viral antigens and the immune system, sometimes with fatal results.

Finally, and possibly more worryingly, the virus seems to be mutating into many differing strains which have varying degrees of viral loads infecting the host.

Those antibodies have their work cut out but as ever, the older you are the less efficient the immune system is in organising its defence and deployment of the army of antibodies.

Except of course in Battyboob, who has no antibody dog running in this race....har, har.

( Batty is either from the planet Zog or away with the pixies )

[Bettyboo]

Boo, ask yourself seriously, if you do not know the difference between an antibody and an antigen - should you be polluting this thread with your crap?

No, I do not know all the terms and details of that area, I doubt anybody on this site does; hence why I've been keeping simple higher level terms for the most part. My basic point remains correct.

Because you have now found a new word 'antigen' and you have read a couple of articles in the last day or so is no reason to endlessly troll. Read the article I linked to and highlighted - it reinforces my point completely. Words/terms like new and novel and mutated from animals, immune system hasn't seen this before are foregrounded and they are the exact terms/points I have been making.

I certainly do not have much knowledge of the low level mechanics of biology, proteins, genetics, but when you and Mr Sausage go onto Wiki then throw out a few terms pretending to understand this study area it's laughable. None of us understand this area. The salient point remains, this novel virus which mutated from animals is very difficult for our immune systems to detect and fight because they have never seen it before. You can read a text you partially understand, throw in some words of the day and be aggressive, but my salient point remains true - as stated in the article clearly enough for even you and Mr Sausage to understand.

[Seekingasylum]

Judging by the US$ continuing appreciation, plenty seem to continue to follow the flock ram.

The appreciation in the $ has little to do with Trump and his idiocy, it is simply because it is the only reserve currency in the world and as such it is the sanctuary of choice.

[bowie]

Long lines formed outside gun and hunting shops, with some New Zealanders – even in urban areas – appearing to stockpile weapons and ammunition.

ahh... 'tis the American way...

Still can't see how you go about getting a kill shot on a virus - gotta have damn good eyesight

[nidhogg]

The difficulty is that the virus can remain within the body for a significant period before the immune system realises something is wrong and sends in the troops and the big howitzer of T-cells etc to vanquish the intruder. The problem in some folk is that in repelling the enemy the troops go into hyperactivity and produce a cytokine storm that not only obliterates the viral antigens but overwhelms the organs most affected by them. This is what is happening to the old, the sick and it seems the geneticaly pre-disposed who are dying from heart failure induced by an inability to breathe because the lungs have become so inflamed by the cytokine storm.

Also, it is becoming more apparent that prolonged exposure to an infected source can increase the viral load in the newly infected precipitating a more prolonged battle between the viral antigens and the immune system, sometimes with fatal results.

Finally, and possibly more worryingly, the virus seems to be mutating into many differing strains which have varying degrees of viral loads infecting the host.

Those antibodies have their work cut out but as ever, the older you are the less efficient the immune system is in organising its defence and deployment of the army of antibodies.

Except of course in Battyboob, who has no antibody dog running in this race....har, har.

( Batty is either from the planet Zog or away with the pixies )

Exactly.

[Seekingasylum]

No, I do not know all the terms and details of that area, I doubt anybody on this site does; hence why I've been keeping simple higher level terms for the most part. My basic point remains correct.

Because you have now found a new word 'antigen' and you have read a couple of articles in the last day or so is no reason to endlessly troll. Read the article I linked to and highlighted - it reinforces my point completely. Words/terms like new and novel and mutated from animals, immune system hasn't seen this before are foregrounded and they are the exact terms/points I have been making.

I certainly do not have much knowledge of the low level mechanics of biology, proteins, genetics, but when you and Mr Sausage go onto Wiki then throw out a few terms pretending to understand this study area it's laughable. None of us understand this area. The salient point remains, this novel virus which mutated from animals is very difficult for our immune systems to detect and fight because they have never seen it before. You can read a text you partially understand, throw in some words of the day and be aggressive, but my salient point remains true - as stated in the article clearly enough for even you and Mr Sausage to understand.

You really have bamboozled yourself.

In your ignorance you stated unambiguously that because the COVID-19 virus was new to the immune system no antibodies could be produced. That is what you said. Plain and simple. And it was utter gibberish. Now please shut up and find another hobby.
But, it is also unfolding that any immunity conferred on those who contracted the virus and have since recovered without difficulty it is likely the immunity is not long lasting and re-infection, say next year, is just as likely as not.

[OhOh]

s the only reserve currency in the world

Many countries have a variety of currencies and other items of value, in their "reserves pot".

As a kid we always had a jar of sixpences, just in case.

[Bettyboo]

Yesterday /\

Today:



When the numbers get this big, 10% per day increases, day upon, day, lead to huge numbers.

Maybe Europe will slow down. The US will ramp up.

Maybe the US will slow down in a month. Africa, India and South America will ramp up.

Everyday, the predictions are getting higher; maybe 600,000+ by the end of march; maybe one million cases by the first week of April; maybe 2,000,000 cases by the end of April - it seems unbelievable and pretty scary. Maybe 100,000 dead within the first four months - that's horribly fast, especially as growth rates will likely increase for another 4-6 months.

Many experts are still claiming that 12-18 month before there's a vaccine; hope it's a lot lot quicker than that.

There seems to be areas that take off then calm down a lot, maybe taking two or three months or so:
China
Asia
Middle East
Europe
USA
India
Africa
South America
Russia
Central Asia

The percentage of the population with the virus in China (if you can believe the figures) and Korea (the figures are probably accurate) are very low; less than 1%. So, it seems really strange when New York, Germany, UK are saying 50%, 60%, 70% of their populations will be infected. California is claiming that 25,000 million will be infected in the state within 8 weeks - is that possible?

Are the European strains far more difficult to control than the Asian strains? Why are the European/Asian models so disparate.

[Klondyke]

Why not to escape on an island? (Any virus-free island left?)

Rapa Nui curfew hours increased to 15 after first positive case by COVID-19

Minister Mañalich reported that the infected person is stable and undergoing quarantine, as well as his relatives. Meanwhile, the deputy Camila Rojas assured that from the island they demand to decree total closure, maintaining only supply.

Aumentan a 15 las horas de toque de queda en Rapa Nui tras primer caso positivo por COVID-19

[harrybarracuda]

No, I do not know all the terms and details of that area

....

I certainly do not have much knowledge of the low level mechanics of biology, proteins, genetics

You can fucking say that again. Listen, here's an expert:

According to Li QinGyuan, director of pneumonia prevention and treatment at China Japan Friendship Hospital in Beijing, those who have been infected with Covid-19 develop a protective antibody - but it isn’t clear how long the protection lasts.

And from Brittannica:

Antibody, also called immunoglobulin, a protective protein produced by the immune system in response to the presence of a foreign substance, called an antigen. Antibodies recognize and latch onto antigens in order to remove them from the body.

So, I think we can be certain that COVID-19 triggers an immune response that is sufficient for some untreated patients to recover and in other patients is as useful as a foreskin in a Jewish nudist camp.

Can we move on please?

[harrybarracuda]

LA Mayor gets tough on businesses ignoring the shutdown order.

The mayor went on to announce the "business ambassadors program" — an effort to get nonessential businesses to close.
“This behavior is irresponsible and selfish,” he said of those that remain open.
He said the Department of Water and Power will shut off services for the businesses that don't comply with the "safer at home" ordinance.
Neighborhood prosecutors will implement safety measures and will contact the businesses before issuing further action, according to Garcetti.
“The easiest way to avoid a visit is to follow the rules,” he said.

Mayor Garcetti announces water and power will be shut off for nonessential L.A. businesses that don’t close | KTLA

[Seekingasylum]

^^An unusually clear and coherent response there, 'Arry.

Well done.

I suppose in comparison to Battyboob and his lunatic cult followers, most folk are more coherent.

He is truly becoming cyber ebola.

[Klondyke]

King of torts

Americans have filed a class action lawsuit against #China, blaming it for #Covid19 & seeking $20 trillion in compensation. Honestly, if there's a buck to be made over a human tragedy, you can count on an American to milk it.

https://twitter.com/snarwani/status/1242379641039523840

[harrybarracuda]

Boo, this is a brilliant video, you should watch it.



Pay particular attention at 14:50.

[Bettyboo]

you stated unambiguously that because the COVID-19 virus was new to the immune system no antibodies could be produced. That is what you said. Plain and simple.

No, I did not, you are a complete liar, as always.

I said, this is novel, and because it comes from animals it's not similar to viruses our immune system is used to. Our immune system has a variety of defence mechanisms; it can raise the body temperature, cells under attack can send out warning messages, specific antibodies can be specifically made (from antigens...), very quickly, to deal with known threats, a variety of immune system operators can try different approaches to attack unknown viruses either before, during or after the point they invade body cells. All of this is happening in parallel in a very complex system. But, the best possible defence is an antibody which is the correct shape to bind to a virus thus marking it for destruction.

There are many different types of antibodies, but there are not antibodies to fit every unknown virus, such as Covid-19. Thus in this case the body simply doesn't know what antibody to make, so it just tries different types until something works (or doesn't). The antibodies work by binding to the virus, often called lock and ket (as I mentioned before several times. Here is a simple graphic and a good article that explains it all:

Virus Wars



Once your body has made antibodies that attach to the target virus then your immune system remembers this and links the two together for future knowledge.

But, in a novel case, such as Covid-19, the immune system does not have the knowledge of what antibody works. If it did know which antibodies to make, it could make them in huge numbers straight away (they are not just always present in the numbers required, they have to be made...). But in a novel case such as this, the immune system doesn't know, so it makes different types on a trial and error, the immune system adapts and learns until it finds an effective antibody. It might do so in time to save the patient, it might not.

Simple. This is what I said. And, this is correct. Fullstop.

[Troy]

There were 4 approved vaccinations for swine flu within 6 months of the infection starting. It was being offered to everyone within 8 months.

I would expect the same timeline for this outbreak.

[Seekingasylum]

this is a novel coronavirus - humans to not have antibodies because it is an animal virus

This is what Baldrick said

[Seekingasylum]

Baldrick is correct... An animal virus that mutates to humans leaves a gap in our immune system - hence, why they are so dangerous; no inherent immunity and no ready vaccine/immunisation (another two reasons why it's different from the seasonal flu).

And this is what Battyboob said.

[NamPikToot]

If only TD had an immune response to the ongoing Antibody debate

[nidhogg]

Boo, this is a brilliant video, you should watch it.

Pay particular attention at 14:50.

It was pretty good. I think he made one mistake at the end though when discussing the comparative death rates as comparing US (1.something percent) versus Italy (10%). I would think that once maximum existing ventilator capacity is reached, the death rate changes very swiftly.

[Norton]

Glad I don't have to deal with this mess. Changwattana immigration.