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  1. #12501
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    BTW, I am sitting on a beach with my feet up sipping an ice cold beer, no mask, enjoying watching a nice storm across the ocean while I question people in this thread. I am enjoying the banter.

    Sadly however upon our arrival here we found that every local business is closed. No taxi service or limited availability so the resort became inclusive where food and drinks are quadruple the price. When we landed we had to do the QR code check in and give an itinerary of our plans.....sheiiit. FO already.

    But let's believe HB. We can stumble over dead bodies on our way to the pub...

  2. #12502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chico View Post
    Here's an interesting stat
    No, it's not. Source it and look at the data . . . it clearly says that 1.089 billion people died over and above the covid numbers. No need for me to quote the reference, of course.

    It's actually quite easy doing a chico.

  3. #12503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumpy View Post
    But let's believe HB. We can stumble over dead bodies on our way to the pub...
    Might not be on the way to the pub, but may be in the halls of a hospital when the ICU's are full. Especially in Thailand, with so few decent ICU's, which is why they are more strict than western countries. Hope you won't need healthcare if they open it up, but hey, you can always complain about that too should it come about.

  4. #12504
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    Quote Originally Posted by pickel View Post
    you can always complain about that too should it come about.
    I am not complaining and seldom do. I am simply debating all this Covid BS. You might see it as complaining. But hey. Lets lock down the planet. Makes sense to me. No one wants to see overloaded ICU units full of unvaccinated people.

  5. #12505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumpy View Post
    But hey. Lets lock down the planet. Makes sense to me. No one wants to see overloaded ICU units full of unvaccinated people.
    You do realize ICU's treat non covid patients too right? Like I said, I hope you don't need healthcare if you get your wish.

  6. #12506
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    Quote Originally Posted by pickel View Post
    Like I said, I hope you don't need healthcare if you get your wish.
    Cheers and I do not even think about it.

  7. #12507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumpy View Post
    Enough already. Look at this new panic Variant. So they say more contagious but much milder symptoms.
    Yep, from what I've read over the past year — this is the most likely outcome as happens with viruses: the variants become more contagious yet less severe over time.

    This is likely the case with Omicron — hopefully — and will be the start of the end of the pandemic: Covid ends up as a yearly cold/flu just ike the hong kong flu and Spanish flu.

  8. #12508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
    Yep, from what I've read over the past year — this is the most likely outcome as happens with viruses: the variants become more contagious yet less severe over time.

    This is likely the case with Omicron — hopefully — and will be the start of the end of the pandemic: Covid ends up as a yearly cold/flu just ike the hong kong flu and Spanish flu.
    Israeli scientists and docs now saying the same as the South Africans. Initial studies suggest it is slightly more contagious, but with milder symptoms, and the jabs provide high levels of protection anyway.

    Quelle surprise.

    Not that this will ever stop the likes of the Guardian (and harry, the big fucking drama queen ) and their constant scaremongering bollox. Those fuckers would be happy to be in lockdown forever despite it only ever being little more than a bit of a cold for most people.

    It's high time we all got on with living our lives.

  9. #12509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
    This is likely the case with Omicron — hopefully — and will be the start of the end of the pandemic: Covid ends up as a yearly cold/flu just ike the hong kong flu and Spanish flu.
    The real risk with this, existing variants and new ones is in countries where the population or a large proportion of them hasn't received their 1st or 2nd jabs. I don't think countries in most of europe inc the UK need to put back in place draconian measures

  10. #12510
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
    Yep, from what I've read over the past year — this is the most likely outcome as happens with viruses: the variants become more contagious yet less severe over time.

    This is likely the case with Omicron — hopefully — and will be the start of the end of the pandemic: Covid ends up as a yearly cold/flu just ike the hong kong flu and Spanish flu.
    There are two ways it could go. The virus could mutate itself to death as some claim Delta has done in Japan.

    Or it will spread further and mutate into something worse.

    Without data it is impossible to say what it is doing, and there is scant data. Although Bonecollector claims to have some, but he's just talking out of his arse.
    The next post may be brought to you by my little bitch Spamdreth

  11. #12511
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malmomike77 View Post
    The real risk with this, existing variants and new ones is in countries where the population or a large proportion of them hasn't received their 1st or 2nd jabs. I don't think countries in most of europe inc the UK need to put back in place draconian measures
    Again: It's about whether the health services can cope.

    e.g. Ireland has one of the highest vaccination rates in Europe, and a not particularly large population.

    But it still has 1.2 million people not fully vaccinated.

    As of last month it had about a dozen ICU beds free.

  12. #12512
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Again: It's about whether the health services can cope.
    Since the numbers of infections has increased in the current wave in the UK hospitalisations have not followed suit.

  13. #12513
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    Forget omicron. We should call it the Xi variant

    The West’s self-censorship over China is allowing Beijing to bully its way to global dominance

    MADELINE GRANT
    1 December 2021 • 7:27am
    Madeline Grant
    The naming of Covid variants, like the naming of cats, is a difficult matter. If you’re the World Health Organisation, anyway. Apparently keen to avoid giving offence, they’ve been working their way through the Greek alphabet so quickly that “luxury watch company suing WHO for trademark infringement” headlines are probably imminent. For in classifying the latest variant of concern as “omicron”, the WHO skipped two letters – “nu”, supposedly to “avoid confusion with the word ‘new’”, and “xi” – to, in their words, “avoid stigmatising a region”.

    It is a curious decision which throws up more questions than it answers. What are we going to do when we’ve run out of Greek letters? Switch to Cyrillic, Babylonian or Cuneiform, or move towards college fraternity style hyphenation (stand by for the “Phi Kappa Delta variant”)? But it’s telling, too. The affair exudes a sense of subservience, even pre-emptive self-censorship. Did anyone actually ask the WHO to do this? Xi Jinping, the Chinese president, may be a powerful man but he is not yet, to my knowledge, a geographical region. And given Beijing’s culpability in the pandemic, if a new variant deserved to be named after anyone, it’s him.

    This may seem a minor quibble, yet the thinking sums up much of what got us here in the first place, and transcends the WHO. The West excels at ignoring the dragon in the room on a host of issues, often without even being told to. Reporters blanched when Donald Trump described Covid-19 as the “China virus” at the start of the pandemic, and a similar cowardice masquerading as sensitivity has stifled discussion ever since.

    I’ve recently finished the brilliant Viral by Matt Ridley and Alina Chan. This bold investigation into the origins of Covid-19 also reveals a shameful wall of institutional silence on this most vital of questions. Circumstantial evidence that the virus emerged from a lab was largely ignored; while those who tried to investigate it were silenced or smeared as conspiratorial cranks. That we can discuss it comparatively freely today owes more to a handful of whistleblowers and internet sleuths than it does to any established scientific agency.

    This month, meanwhile, Disney+ launched in Hong Kong. Disney has owned the rights to the cartoon series The Simpsons for years, yet eagle-eyed fans in the former British colony soon noticed they’d quietly omitted something – a 2005 episode in which the family travels to Beijing to help Aunt Selma adopt a Chinese baby. The episode, a late-season highlight, fizzes with lacerating satire. Their adoption agent says to bookworm Lisa at one point: “Soon you will have a little Chinese sister who will surpass you academically”. “Oh I don’t know. I’m considered pretty smart," replies Lisa. “Well Tibet used to be considered pretty independent”, counters the agent. “How’d that work out?” At Tiananmen Square the family spots a placard that reads: “On this site, in 1989, nothing happened”. With even this telling nod to history excised, we’ve moved beyond irony.

    Again, it’s not obvious whether it was the result of instruction or self-censorship, but neither should surprise us. This is, after all, the same Disney that chose to film parts of its live-action remake of Mulan in Xinjiang Province, the site of Uyghur internment camps, starring an actress who came out to support the Chinese government on the crackdown in Hong Kong.

    One notable recent exception to the wall-of-silence rule of public life is the Women’s Tennis Association, which has repeatedly slammed the shocking disappearance of Chinese tennis star Peng Shuai. But the WTA is in the minority even among sporting bodies; a senior Olympic official participated in feeble televised interview with Peng, seemingly designed to allay public outrage ahead of the Beijing Winter Olympics in February. Then there is the fiction of “Chinese Taipei”, a bogus and misleading term of national status foisted on Taiwanese athletes by the International Olympic Committee to make their participation acceptable to China.

    The new head of MI6 has warned of China’s use of “debt traps” to buy global influence; loaning money to smaller, poorer states, then calling in these loans on harsh terms if they are left unpaid – or simply if the country decides to oppose Chinese interests in some way. Too busy gloating over the apparent downfall of the West, liberal thinkers seem unable to identify this practice for what it is – an aggressive form of modern-day colonialism.

    This has been particularly striking in the case of Barbados and its shift from monarchy to republic. Naturally, the right-on commentators focused on slavery, reparations, the ills of the British empire, and so on, rather than the fact that the island has received large amounts of Chinese “investment”. You have to wonder whether they are ignorant of, or just unconcerned by, the fact that something much less benign is waiting in the wings.

    As China expands its odious reach around the globe, we seem unable to react, except with silence, or a pathetic misdiagnosis of the problem. How can we begin to counter the enemy we face, when we can barely find the words to be it?

    Forget omicron. We should call it the Xi variant


  14. #12514
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
    Yep, from what I've read over the past year — this is the most likely outcome as happens with viruses: the variants become more contagious yet less severe over time.

    This is likely the case with Omicron — hopefully
    — and will be the start of the end of the pandemic: Covid ends up as a yearly cold/flu just ike the hong kong flu and Spanish flu.
    Without data it is impossible to say what it is doing, and there is scant data.
    Yes, I heard the Moderna CEO say that labs will take vaccinated patient's blood and place Omicron in it. It wil take a couple weeks to complete the studies. And, will take a couple months for results on humans.

    Anyways, Harry: With all that you've read about Covid, what's your informed opinion on the seriousness of Omicron?

  15. #12515
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    Harry: With all that you've read about Covid, what's your informed opinion on the seriousness of Omicron?
    give him 30 minutes to read the tea leaves, consult the chicken bones and ask alexa and you might get an answer.

  16. #12516
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malmomike77 View Post
    Since the numbers of infections has increased in the current wave in the UK hospitalisations have not followed suit.
    Well actually they did, just not in enough numbers to stretch the NHS.

    The COVID-2019 Thread-untitled-jpg

  17. #12517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
    Yes, I heard the Moderna CEO say that labs will take vaccinated patient's blood and place Omicron in it. It wil take a couple weeks to complete the studies. And, will take a couple months for results on humans.

    Anyways, Harry: With all that you've read about Covid, what's your informed opinion on the seriousness of Omicron?
    Hard to say. Scientists have been modelling variants with all the known mutations (I don't think there are many, if any new ones in Omicron) and already predicted that lots of mutations would make the disease more transmissible.

    And this seems to be the case.

    Israel has obviously been sequencing like mad and:

    Health Minister Nitzan Horowitz says that early data shows that those who have three doses of the Pfizer COVID vaccine are well protected against the new Omicron variant.


    In comments made while visiting the Soroka Medical Center in Beersheba, Horowitz urges Israelis not to panic about the new variant, which caused Israel to shut its borders to foreigners and reinstate quarantine measures for vaccinated travelers.


    “The situation is under control, there is no need for panic,” says Horowitz. “We expected a new variant, and we’re ready… in the next few days we will have more precise information about the vaccine’s effectiveness, but early indications show that those who have a booster are most likely protected against this variant.”
    In South Africa it seems it might be worse for unvaccinated patients:

    “We’re seeing a marked change in the demographic profile of patients with COVID-19,” Rudo Mathivha, head of the intensive care unit at Soweto’s Baragwanath Hospital, told an online press briefing.
    “Young people, in their 20s to just over their late 30s, are coming in with moderate to severe disease, some needing intensive care. About 65% are not vaccinated and most of the rest are only half-vaccinated,” said Mathivha. “I’m worried that as the numbers go up, the public health care facilities will become overwhelmed.”
    It's up to countries to sequence like crazy to find out who is getting infected with this variant, their vaccination status and the severity of the infection.
    Only when this kind of meaningful data is available will countries be able to make informed decisions.

  18. #12518
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    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile View Post
    Forget omicron. We should call it the Xi variant

    The West’s self-censorship over China is allowing Beijing to bully its way to global dominance

    MADELINE GRANT
    1 December 2021 • 7:27am
    Madeline Grant
    The naming of Covid variants, like the naming of cats, is a difficult matter. If you’re the World Health Organisation, anyway. Apparently keen to avoid giving offence, they’ve been working their way through the Greek alphabet so quickly that “luxury watch company suing WHO for trademark infringement” headlines are probably imminent. For in classifying the latest variant of concern as “omicron”, the WHO skipped two letters – “nu”, supposedly to “avoid confusion with the word ‘new’”, and “xi” – to, in their words, “avoid stigmatising a region”.

    It is a curious decision which throws up more questions than it answers. What are we going to do when we’ve run out of Greek letters? Switch to Cyrillic, Babylonian or Cuneiform, or move towards college fraternity style hyphenation (stand by for the “Phi Kappa Delta variant”)? But it’s telling, too. The affair exudes a sense of subservience, even pre-emptive self-censorship. Did anyone actually ask the WHO to do this? Xi Jinping, the Chinese president, may be a powerful man but he is not yet, to my knowledge, a geographical region. And given Beijing’s culpability in the pandemic, if a new variant deserved to be named after anyone, it’s him.

    This may seem a minor quibble, yet the thinking sums up much of what got us here in the first place, and transcends the WHO. The West excels at ignoring the dragon in the room on a host of issues, often without even being told to. Reporters blanched when Donald Trump described Covid-19 as the “China virus” at the start of the pandemic, and a similar cowardice masquerading as sensitivity has stifled discussion ever since.

    I’ve recently finished the brilliant Viral by Matt Ridley and Alina Chan. This bold investigation into the origins of Covid-19 also reveals a shameful wall of institutional silence on this most vital of questions. Circumstantial evidence that the virus emerged from a lab was largely ignored; while those who tried to investigate it were silenced or smeared as conspiratorial cranks. That we can discuss it comparatively freely today owes more to a handful of whistleblowers and internet sleuths than it does to any established scientific agency.

    This month, meanwhile, Disney+ launched in Hong Kong. Disney has owned the rights to the cartoon series The Simpsons for years, yet eagle-eyed fans in the former British colony soon noticed they’d quietly omitted something – a 2005 episode in which the family travels to Beijing to help Aunt Selma adopt a Chinese baby. The episode, a late-season highlight, fizzes with lacerating satire. Their adoption agent says to bookworm Lisa at one point: “Soon you will have a little Chinese sister who will surpass you academically”. “Oh I don’t know. I’m considered pretty smart," replies Lisa. “Well Tibet used to be considered pretty independent”, counters the agent. “How’d that work out?” At Tiananmen Square the family spots a placard that reads: “On this site, in 1989, nothing happened”. With even this telling nod to history excised, we’ve moved beyond irony.

    Again, it’s not obvious whether it was the result of instruction or self-censorship, but neither should surprise us. This is, after all, the same Disney that chose to film parts of its live-action remake of Mulan in Xinjiang Province, the site of Uyghur internment camps, starring an actress who came out to support the Chinese government on the crackdown in Hong Kong.

    One notable recent exception to the wall-of-silence rule of public life is the Women’s Tennis Association, which has repeatedly slammed the shocking disappearance of Chinese tennis star Peng Shuai. But the WTA is in the minority even among sporting bodies; a senior Olympic official participated in feeble televised interview with Peng, seemingly designed to allay public outrage ahead of the Beijing Winter Olympics in February. Then there is the fiction of “Chinese Taipei”, a bogus and misleading term of national status foisted on Taiwanese athletes by the International Olympic Committee to make their participation acceptable to China.

    The new head of MI6 has warned of China’s use of “debt traps” to buy global influence; loaning money to smaller, poorer states, then calling in these loans on harsh terms if they are left unpaid – or simply if the country decides to oppose Chinese interests in some way. Too busy gloating over the apparent downfall of the West, liberal thinkers seem unable to identify this practice for what it is – an aggressive form of modern-day colonialism.

    This has been particularly striking in the case of Barbados and its shift from monarchy to republic. Naturally, the right-on commentators focused on slavery, reparations, the ills of the British empire, and so on, rather than the fact that the island has received large amounts of Chinese “investment”. You have to wonder whether they are ignorant of, or just unconcerned by, the fact that something much less benign is waiting in the wings.

    As China expands its odious reach around the globe, we seem unable to react, except with silence, or a pathetic misdiagnosis of the problem. How can we begin to counter the enemy we face, when we can barely find the words to be it?

    Forget omicron. We should call it the Xi variant
    Excellent article, well worth a second read.

  19. #12519
    Thailand Expat russellsimpson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile View Post
    give him 30 minutes to read the tea leaves, consult the chicken bones and ask alexa and you might get an answer.


    Spit me morning coffee all over my laptop.

  20. #12520
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Not a fan of hers but rock on, anything that keeps these antivax pricks off planes or better still at home is a good thing.

    EU 'should consider mandatory vaccination', says von der Leyen

    https://www.euronews.com/2021/12/01/...-von-der-leyen

  21. #12521
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    There we go, was always going to happen eventually, watch the riots begin again

    Covid Omicron: Time to consider mandatory jabs, EU chief says



    IMAGE SOURCE,EPA
    Image caption,Ursula von der Leyen said it was "appropriate" for EU states to consider compulsory jabs

    European Union countries should consider mandatory vaccination to combat Covid and the Omicron variant, the head of its Commission has said.


    Ursula von der Leyen said vaccines would be crucial in the fight against the "highly contagious" new variant.


    Some two dozen countries have reported cases of Omicron, and the EU has tightened travel restrictions since it was first reported earlier this month.


    European countries have also been facing a wider spike in cases.


    The World Health Organization (WHO), meanwhile, said early signs were that most cases of the Omicron variant were "mild".


    On Wednesday, Ms von der Leyen said it was "understandable and appropriate" for EU members to discuss forced Covid vaccinations given that a third of the bloc's population was unvaccinated.



    "How we can encourage and potentially think about mandatory vaccination within the European Union? This needs discussion. This needs a common approach, but it is a discussion that I think has to be led," she told a news conference in Brussels.


    Only individual EU states can enforce vaccine mandates and some are already taking steps in that direction.


    Austria has announced compulsory Covid vaccinations from February next year, while Greece is fining all unvaccinated over-60s €100 (£85) a month.


    Germany's incoming Chancellor, Olaf Scholz, has said he supports compulsory jabs. In an interview with Bild television, Mr Scholz said he wanted compulsory vaccinations from March and also said a faster rollout of booster jabs was needed.


    'No sign vaccines won't work'


    The WHO, which declared Omicron "of concern" on Friday following its rapid spread in South Africa, says it will know more about the new variant within days.


    However, it has already said it believes existing vaccines "will still prevent severe disease" among people who contract the new variant.








    Asked about the severity of cases, WHO epidemiologist Dr Maria van Kerkhove said: "There is some indication that some of the patients are presenting with mild disease.


    "There is still suggestion of increased hospitalisations across South Africa but this could be the sheer fact that we have more cases, and if you have more cases you have more hospitalisations."


    The US on Wednesday became the latest country to report a case of Omicron. Other nations include Nigeria, Norway and South Korea. Several countries have tightened their borders to halt the spread of Omicron.






    Media caption,WHO: ‘Omicron is a variant of concern, not panic’

    But the WHO warned against "punitive" travel measures imposed on southern African countries.


    WHO head Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said he was concerned about "blunt, blanket measures", which "will only worsen inequities".


    Dr Van Kerkhove said travel bans imposed on South Africa had created problems for shipping virus samples.



    The US, which has already banned foreign travellers from eight African countries, has ordered airlines to tell it the names of passengers who have been there.

    Covid Omicron: Time to consider mandatory jabs, EU chief says - BBC News

  22. #12522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chico View Post
    There we go, was always going to happen eventually
    Word salad aside . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by Chico View Post
    Time to consider mandatory jabs
    You do realise that jabs are already mandatory for many, don't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chico View Post
    "How we can encourage and potentially think about mandatory vaccination within the European Union? This needs discussion. This needs a common approach, but it is a discussion that I think has to be led," she told a news conference in Brussels.
    Yes, horrible that . . . 'encourage and potentially think' . . . which one is giving you trouble?


    Let's look back at what you now find surprising:

    UK: What are the risks of mandatory vaccination policies in the workplace? | Littler Mendelson P.C.

    Compulsory vaccination: what does human rights law say?

    COVID-19 and mandatory vaccination | Royal College of Nursing

    Making vaccination a condition of deployment in the health and wider social care sector - GOV.UK

    . . . and the list goes on and on . . . Much to your surprise, apparently, the discussion has been going on for quite a while, with sections of the population already under mandatory vaccination regulations.

  23. #12523
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Probably, but I have backup plans obviously.
    You've got a two week window to get here, then again with The Gen P constantly changing, we will most probably go into Lockdown early next week.

    PM eyes Omicron options

    Lockdown may loom if variant detected

    PUBLISHED : 1 DEC 2021 AT 04:00

    NEWSPAPER SECTION: NEWS
    WRITER: MONGKOL BANGPRAPA

    People wait to get a Covid-19 vaccine at the Central Vaccination Centre at the Bang Sue Grand Station in Bangkok last Friday. (Photo: Apichart Jinakul)
    Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha will make a decision about whether Thailand will be forced back into another lockdown if the Omicron variant of Covid-19 is detected in the country.
    However, the new strain has not been found in Thailand yet, according to health authorities.
    Speaking after Tuesday's cabinet meeting, Deputy Prime Minister and Energy Minister Supattanapong Punmeechaow said the cabinet instructed relevant agencies to monitor the situation closely while the Public Health Ministry will assess the country's reopening in two weeks' time.
    Last edited by Chico; 02-12-2021 at 04:32 AM.

  24. #12524
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    Good news and bad news……

    San Francisco health official says after Omicron case detected in city

    "With regard to the case itself, the person recently traveled to South Africa and developed symptoms upon their return. And they did the right thing and got tested and reported their travel history. They have received a full dose of the Moderna vaccine, but no booster. They had mild symptoms and thankfully have now recovered," Colfax said.

    "Most experts that I have spoken to believe that the vaccines will still be of critical importance in protecting ourselves, our families and our community. So our message is the same as it was yesterday: To best protect against this variant, get vaccinated for goodness' sakes, if you have not been vaccinated. Get your booster if you're eligible. Continue to wear those masks inside where required," he said.

    First U.S. omicron case found in San Francisco. Here’s what we know

    The first case of the omicron coronavirus variant in the United States was identified Wednesday in a San Francisco resident who had recently returned from South Africa, public health officials said.

    The person — who is otherwise healthy and fully vaccinated with Moderna, but had not received a booster — arrived at San Francisco International Airport on Nov. 22, developed symptoms three days later, and tested positive for the virus on Monday. Due to the person’s travel history, a sample of the virus immediately underwent genomic sequencing at UCSF and was confirmed early Wednesday as the new variant.

    The person is not being identified and officials are not releasing his or her age or sex. The person had mild symptoms and has recovered, health officials said. So far, no close contacts have tested positive for the virus, but health officials are still reaching out to people and testing them. The person isolated at home after testing positive, and quickly alerted the San Francisco Department of Public Health about the recent travel.
    Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

  25. #12525
    Thailand Expat russellsimpson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Last Online
    14-03-2024 @ 06:17 PM
    Location
    vancouver
    Posts
    1,785
    This is all a massive overreaction on an unheard of level.

    I think this goes way beyond reasonable caution. One case confirmed out of 270 million people.

    Drop the drawbridges, seal the border, shot to kill!

    Ridiculous.

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