The COVID-2019 Thread

[strigils]

Apparently she thinks it is the UK side that does not understand contract law, she said:

Erm, its the company the EU is arguing with not the UK, she appears to be lashing out. The UK is looking to the commercial arrangement with AstraZenica, its agnostic of the EU unless the EU seeks to impinge in its contractual arrangement. At present all this is speculation as the EU's arrangement with Astra is under a confidentiality arrangement.

[harrybarracuda]

The EU’s health commissioner

Appointed by a fucking squarehead who is probably now regretting it.

[russellsimpson]

At present all this is speculation as the EU's arrangement with Astra is under a confidentiality arrangement.

What's with all these "confidentiality arrangements"? Seriously.

This is the same standard bullshit we hear from the Canadian government. This is public taxpayer money, it should require full transparency. As far as the fear that the EU will impose export restrictions, rest easy. Our Grand Poobah over in the nations capital has just gotten off the phone with Ursula and assures us all this will not happen. Of course it could be that the Prime Minister has his head so far up the new presidents ass that he's not thinking straight.

[Latindancer]

China's 'humiliating' new Covid testing method : anal swabs.


AFPWed, 27 January 2021, 9:08 pm·2-min read



China has begun using anal swabs to test those it considers at high risk of contracting Covid-19, state TV reported, with social media users and travellers squirming over the invasive procedure which doctors say can be more effective in detecting the virus.

China's 'humiliating' new method for Covid testing

[Buckaroo Banzai]

The EU hedged its bets with the purchase of vaccines and failed to approve them quick enough. The EU are to blame for this one and their attempt to shift it to AstraZeneca is looking a little silly. They haven't even approved the vaccine yet.

I will concede i don't know much about this, but didnt the EU sign a contract with AstraZeneca last june for 400 million doses? and wasn't the UK still officially a member of the EU back then?

[lom]

At present all this is speculation as the EU's arrangement with Astra is under a confidentiality arrangement.

Harry, being so sure where the problem is, must have read the contract.

[Switch]

While individual member states dithered over the vaccine, the EU stepped in to do the job on behalf of all 27 members.
As aresult, their application to buy vaccines fell 3 months behind the UK application to buy, and even further behind in getting it authorized for use.
It give no pleasure to remind member states that, not only will this clusterfuck cost lives, the EU as an institution has failed badly in this instance.

[harrybarracuda]

Harry, being so sure where the problem is, must have read the contract.

The contract isn't the issue when some bubble and squeak eurotrash dictator says she doesn't care about it, numbnuts.

In a withering statement, Stella Kyriakides said the UK should not earn any advantage by signing a contract with AstraZeneca three months before the EU’s executive branch put their pen to paper.

[jabir]

I always thought a contract represents an obligation; now it seems they're only an obligation if the EU brass agree.

After almost a year of this shite, I wonder what they're going to call the EU when covid is gone, I hardly imagine anything synonymous with Union; but that's purely academic and historical purposes, for the pop she is coming.

[taxexile]

How the UK's vaccine gamble paid off – and the EU left itself without a leg to stand on.

AstraZeneca finds itself under intense pressure from Brussels, but is remaining fiercely loyal to the UK Government

By
James Crisp,
BRUSSELS CORRESPONDENT
27 January 2021 • 9:04pm

Back in March, the University of Oxford was on the brink of signing a deal with the German drugs giant Merck to research and develop a coronavirus vaccine.

The Government stepped in and helped steer Oxford towards a partnership with British-based AstraZeneca instead, taking a huge gamble by helping to fund the research and development of a vaccine that might have proved useless.

Instead, the Oxford vaccine became only the second in the Western world to be approved for use, and both the UK and AstraZeneca are now reaping the benefits of the deal that was struck last April.

AstraZeneca has, so far, remained fiercely loyal to the Government, resolutely refusing to give in to EU demands that it should redirect supplies of its UK-made vaccine to the bloc.

But that close relationship has come under unprecedented strain as the company found itself under huge pressure from Brussels.


The row erupted last Friday, when AstraZeneca said it would not be able to fulfil promised supplies of the vaccine, which is expected to be authorised by the European Medicines Authority at the end of this week.

Brussels had ordered up to 400 million doses in total and paid €336 million (£296.4 million) in advance to secure its supply of the AstraZeneca vaccine, but the company said it was facing production problems in its EU plants.

EU officials said AstraZeneca had only offered a quarter of the 100 million doses it had promised for the first quarter of the year, while the firm put the figure at 31 million out of 80 million jabs it had hoped to deliver.

The EU's 27 member states, many of whom had foregone other vaccines to wait for the AstraZeneca jab – which is cheaper and easier to store than the Belgian-made Pfizer alternative – were furious and wanted answers.

The European Commission, which had negotiated its own contract with AstraZeneca, was left red-faced and angry. And so the blame game began.

On Monday, the commission subjected AstraZeneca to a string of public and private dressing downs, accusing it of breaching its contractual obligations.

The commission ratcheted up the pressure, saying it would force drugmakers in the EU to ask permission to export vaccines out of the bloc. The threat to British supplies of the Pfizer vaccine was clear.

On Wednesday, the EU went further, demanding that AstraZeneca divert British-made supplies of the vaccine to the bloc.


The British Government has a deal with AstraZeneca to supply 100 million doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine. Crucially it also said Britain's two plants could only supply jabs outside of the UK once that order was fulfilled.

That agreement was struck three months before the EU's deal as ministers took advantage of their post-Brexit freedom to go it alone rather than signing up to EU-wide procurement.

While Britain was setting up its logistics and sorting out supply chains, the EU's negotiations with AstraZeneca became mired in bureaucracy, costing the bloc vital time which has now been manifested in its supply problems.

On Tuesday, the AstraZeneca CEO, Pascal Soriot, said separate supply chains, including manufacturing plants, had been created for each order – one for the EU and one for the UK. This was done explicitly to stop squabbling over supply.

The EU supply chain was behind because the bloc, late to the party, was still experiencing teething problems with production – problems the UK supply chain had also suffered initially but had overcome.

Mr Soriot added that AstraZeneca was under no contractual obligation to supply the vaccines but only to make its "best efforts" to meet the order. His interview – in which he pointed out that the vaccines were being supplied on a not for profit basis – further infuriated the European Commission top brass.

Brussels has made huge play of the virtue of negotiating as a bloc, a posture that has appeared increasingly ridiculous as it lagged behind Britain in the vaccination rollout.

doses given and doses per 100 people

United Kingdom 7,638,543 11.25
Malta 22,371 5.06
Denmark 216,128 3.73
Romania 570,704 2.97
Spain 1,356,461 2.9
Ireland 143,000 2.9
Portugal 278,413 2.73
Italy 1,575,258 2.61
Lithuania 70,018 2.57
Poland 905,457 2.39
Germany 1,990,889 2.38
Finland 126,910 2.29
Estonia 29,594 2.23
Austria 195,886 2.18
Czech Republic 222,450 2.08
Greece 213,735 2.05
Belgium 231,466 2
Slovakia 108,426 1.99
Sweden 192,700 .91
Hungary 170,476 1.76
France 1,136,906 1.74
Croatia 69,984 1.7
Luxembourg 9,525 1.52
Cyprus 17,379 1.44
Latvia 20,537 1.09
Netherlands 185,356 1.08
Bulgaria 29,122 0.42


To make matters worse, the EU member states have been suffering from logistics and delivery problems for the other two vaccines already approved.

The Government was invited to join the EU joint procurement system but declined and made use of emergency authorisation procedures, open to all EU member states, to speed up approval of vaccines. Brussels sneered that it preferred not to take such risks.

Mr Soriot's implication that the EU's dithering was to blame for the delay came on the eve of EU countries such as Spain running out of vaccines and having to pause their programmes.

On Wednesday, the commission went back on the attack. It accused Mr Soriot of revealing confidential information, such as the "best efforts" clause and the production capacity, in his interview. Legal action was threatened before the threat was later played down.

Stella Kyriakides, the EU's health commissioner, told reporters in Brussels: "We reject the logic of first come, first served. That might work at the neighbourhood butchers, but not on our contracts and not in our advanced purchase agreements."

Ms Kyriakides said there was "no priority clause" in the EU contract between the four production plants in the agreement, which include two factories in the EU and the two in the UK, adding: "In our contract, it is not specified that any country or the UK has priority [...] this needs to be absolutely clear."

The European Commission's chief spokesperson said: "If UK plants are working better, are we expecting UK plants to deliver doses to the EU? Yes we do. "

Elsewhere in Brussels, AstraZeneca's name continued to be dragged through the mud. There was talk of a nascent vaccine trade war from one German MEP.


Ms Kyriakides turned the knife and played to the gallery; making the reputational risk facing AstraZeneca in the EU crystal clear. She said the EU was losing people to the pandemic "every day" and added: "Pharmaceutical companies, vaccine developers, have moral societal and contractual responsibilities which they need to uphold."

In the heightened political drama, it mattered little that AstraZeneca is already right on the limit of what is possible. The 100 million doses destined for Britain is what would normally be produced in a year rather than each month.

AstraZeneca stayed firm and loyal to the UK, justifying the Government's decision to move first and fast. But the company remains under huge, sustained legal, financial and reputational pressure from the EU, which is a much larger and more lucrative drugs market than Britain.

The fear is that eventually it will yield to EU demands and redirect supply, now or in the future, but the firm insists it has no intention of doing so.

After another meeting with EU leaders on Wednesday night, a spokesman for AstraZeneca said: "Our CEO was pleased to participate in a meeting with the EU's vaccine steering board this evening. We had a constructive and open conversation about the complexities of scaling up production of our vaccine, and the challenges we have encountered.

"We have committed to even closer co-ordination to jointly chart a path for the delivery of our vaccine over the coming months as we continue our efforts to bring this vaccine to millions of Europeans at no profit during the pandemic."

In an ironic post-script, earlier this week Merck – the firm that had come so close to signing up with the University of Oxford – announced that it was abandoning its attempts to develop a vaccine after disappointing results in trials of two prototypes.

How the UK's vaccine gamble paid off – and the EU left itself without a leg to stand on

this shambles just highlights the way the bureaucracy and tardiness attached to every brussels decision has come home to roost.

every decision made by every country affected by the pandemic was a gamble of some sort. close the borders, close the schools, lockdown or not, quarantine regulations etc.etc.etc. and beating the virus for the uk, affected as it is by europes highest rate of obesity, diabetes and heart problems, an ageing population, one of the worlds busiest travel hub, europes highet population density, a cynical media and a belligerent population with little respect for the law was always going to have a hard time of it.

the uk gambled on the success of the astra zenica virus and put their money and signature down whilst the eu dithered and now we are reaping the benefits of that. and the bureaucrats of brussels dont like it one bit and resort to doing what they do best. bullying and threatening.

[Buckaroo Banzai]

" EU adopts Mitsotakis proposal on coronavirus “vaccination passport,” says PM’s office"

EU adopts Mitsotakis proposal on coronavirus "vaccination passport," says PM's office

Greece had made the proposal to the EU in an attempt to revive the tourist industry that is a big part of the economy of the country. It was met with some resistance by some of the countries siting unfairness to those who are not validated, but it seems they have overcome that hurdle.
Good news, I am sure Thailand cant be far behind,
We are going to Greece for Easter this April. and then get back to Thailand ASAP. I am excited!!

[Seekingasylum]

Why you persist on gorging on Telegraph emotive crap for your analysis is mystifying given that you Tax were a professional man trained in science and one assumes is, or was, seized of the ability and intelligence to employ his learning to understand the phenomenology of what is presented to him.

The UK government agreed to buy at the price offered by Astra Zeneca at an early stage and without any attempt at obtaining value for many whereas the EU were less reckless but nevertheless the contract for 400 million doses for the EU market was done back in June 2020.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves and look at your correspondent, Crisp's, report.

First things first, Astra Zeneca is not a British company, it is a British - Swedish company. Secondly, Merck is not a German company, it is American. The UK government persuaded Oxford to go into partnership with AZ solely because it feared Trump would lean on Merck and hoard distribution of the vaccine for domestic American use.

The UK obtained a contractual supply deal on the basis of its early pricing agreement and in advance of negotiations being concluded with EU countries led by the consortium of Franco/Grman/Dutch countries.

Since then the British have capitalised on their deal which is now at the expense of sharing with the EU market given that AZ's production schedule has proved utterly unreliable.

Waving a fucking jingoistic flag on the bogus basis that the UK is somehow superior to other countries is simply fucking stupid and quite repellent but I suppose par for the course for what is now a neo fascist right wing country led by a shambolic government which through it's ineptitude has killed more of its own people than have died anywhere else in Europe.

If AZ do not divert supplies from the UK then one sincerely hopes it is fucked in the future but as we have already seen from the Brexit damaged exports debacle any sanction from the EU will be superfluous sine the British have already proved more than capable of fucking itself up.

And pullease Tax, don't give us that shit that the British dead brought it upon themselves, it was solely as a consequence of lousy leadership by the worst government in living memory.

Own it, as they say, you Brexit idiots have earned it.

[strigils]

Since then the British have capitalised on their deal which is now at the expense of sharing with the EU market given that AZ's production schedule has proved utterly unreliable

6 paras to get his pro EU dig out, which is factually incorrect. They haven't capitalised on anything, AZ is following the contractual agreement in place before the EU's - I see you have sucked up the EU angst ridden bleating, driven by their slow bureaucratic machinery. You really are too funny. Har har har.

[Buckaroo Banzai]

Why you persist on gorging on Telegraph emotive crap for your analysis is mystifying given that you Tax were a professional man trained in science and one assumes is, or was, seized of the ability and intelligence to employ his learning to understand the phenomenology of what is presented to him.

The UK government agreed to buy at the price offered by Astra Zeneca at an early stage and without any attempt at obtaining value for many whereas the EU were less reckless but nevertheless the contract for 400 million doses for the EU market was done back in June 2020.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves and look at your correspondent, Crisp's, report.

First things first, Astra Zeneca is not a British company, it is a British - Swedish company. Secondly, Merck is not a German company, it is American. The UK government persuaded Oxford to go into partnership with AZ solely because it feared Trump would lean on Merck and hoard distribution of the vaccine for domestic American use.

The UK obtained a contractual supply deal on the basis of its early pricing agreement and in advance of negotiations being concluded with EU countries led by the consortium of Franco/Grman/Dutch countries.

Since then the British have capitalised on their deal which is now at the expense of sharing with the EU market given that AZ's production schedule has proved utterly unreliable.

Waving a fucking jingoistic flag on the bogus basis that the UK is somehow superior to other countries is simply fucking stupid and quite repellent but I suppose par for the course for what is now a neo fascist right wing country led by a shambolic government which through it's ineptitude has killed more of its own people than have died anywhere else in Europe.

If AZ do not divert supplies from the UK then one sincerely hopes it is fucked in the future but as we have already seen from the Brexit damaged exports debacle any sanction from the EU will be superfluous sine the British have already proved more than capable of fucking itself up.

And pullease Tax, don't give us that shit that the British dead brought it upon themselves, it was solely as a consequence of lousy leadership by the worst government in living memory.

Own it, as they say, you Brexit idiots have earned it.

Ouch!!! Remind me never to get in an argument with you.
You are of course absolutely right. and if the Brits some how manage to screw the EU , rest assured the EU will find a way to screw them back, if as you said it sis possible for the EU to screw them more than they have already screw them selves.
Perhaps the EU can block Vaseline shipments into the UK , that should make things interesting there.

[harrybarracuda]

China's 'humiliating' new Covid testing method : anal swabs.


AFPWed, 27 January 2021, 9:08 pm·2-min read



China has begun using anal swabs to test those it considers at high risk of contracting Covid-19, state TV reported, with social media users and travellers squirming over the invasive procedure which doctors say can be more effective in detecting the virus.

China's 'humiliating' new method for Covid testing

I've been saying for a while they can stick their shitty vaccines up their arse, I didn't realise they would be quite so literal and start doing it with the tests too.

[strigils]

^^ Buckaroo,never let facts get in the way of a good yarn eh, oh and by the way its probably KY Jelly

[Buckaroo Banzai]

I've been saying for a while they can stick their shitty vaccines up their arse, I didn't realise they would be quite so literal and start doing it with the tests too.

I can see that one guy who keeps going back every day for another test. You know the one with the pink polo shirt.

[harrybarracuda]

Ouch!!! Remind me never to get in an argument with you.
You are of course absolutely right. and if the Brits some how manage to screw the EU , rest assured the EU will find a way to screw them back

Britain did not "screw the EU", the EU screwed themselves as usual.

SA, of course, is upset that the fucking pikies will be at the bottom of the heap for vaccines (where they belong), and his only hope of getting on a plane in the near future is in hoping that the Thais have some leftover minced chicken spleens masquerading as a vaccine that they got from a dog food factory in Wuhan, and might be gracious enough to shove it up his arse if his head has left any room.

[strigils]

POOR TASTE ALERT - ADULT ADVISORY


Germany discovers a way to euthanize the olds citing lack of data .... still they have history with that sort of thing

Germany recommends Oxford Covid vaccine not be used on over-65s

German authorities have recommended that the Oxford/AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine should not be used on people aged 65 or above, citing a lack of data.


AstraZeneca and the vaccine’s developers have consistently said it is safe for use on older adults, and Public Health England said on Thursday that the vaccine provided reassuring immune responses in older people even if data on the precise level of protection was patchy.


However, Germany’s disease control agency, the Robert Koch Institute, said there was insufficient data to judge how effective the vaccine was for people over 65, and as a result it could only recommend using the vaccine on people aged 18 to 64.


An RKI advisory committee said that in all other respects the AstraZeneca vaccine was as “equally suitable” as those manufactured by Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna.


The recommendation came on the eve of a ruling by the European Medicines Agency (EMA) on the vaccine made by AstraZeneca, a British-Swedish pharmaceutical company.

Germany recommends Oxford Covid vaccine not be used on over-65s | World news | The Guardian

[strigils]

Anyway, it'll all work out, the UK and the EU experiment will kiss and make up, the old will be safe and the Eels and when alls said and done future generations will look back on the UK giving extra doses to the EU fondly and lo it came to pass that the EU once a year gave the UK a massive vial shaped glass bottle full of the best Hock.

[Buckaroo Banzai]

Anyway, it'll all work out, the UK and the EU experiment will kiss and make up, the old will be safe and the Eels and when alls said and done future generations will look back on the UK giving extra doses to the EU fondly and lo it came to pass that the EU once a year gave the UK a massive vial shaped glass bottle full of the best Hock.

How about all of these people in the EU that will die because Astra Zeneca did not uphold their end in a bilateral contract?
will they kiss and make up. Just as important, will Astra Zeneca be legally liable of each one of these deaths? I know that if this happened in the US, there is certain to be a class action lawsuit that if it prevailed could bankrupt Astra Zeneca .

[strigils]

How about all of these people in the EU that will die because Astra Zeneca did not uphold their end in a bilateral contract?

BB are you blaming the UK for the poor EU reaction to securing contracts which deliver the vaccines they at some point will approve, for the slow roll out and poor planning of the vaccine programme delivery across the 27 member states?

If people die in the 27 EU states because of the poor EU vaccine planning then yes it is absolutely the UK's fault - you do live in Florida don't you?, Is PH your neighbour?

[Buckaroo Banzai]

BB are you blaming the UK for the poor EU reaction to securing contracts which deliver the vaccines they at some point will approve, for the slow roll out and poor planning of the vaccine programme delivery across the 27 member states?

If people die in the 27 EU states because of the poor EU vaccine planning then yes it is absolutely the UK's fault - you do live in Florida don't you?, Is PH your neighbour?

I am not blaming the UK. The Uk is doing what's good for the UK , I am blaming Astra Zeneca for not performing . If I understood this correctly , the EU had a bilateral contract with them, they were to provide funds, and Astra Zeneca was to provide a certain amount of doses in a timely manner as described in the contract . The EU performed their part of the bilateral contract, Astra Zeneca is not and because of that we have a non performing contract in legal terms. So the question remains what contingencies are included in the contract that we do not have access to.
IMO the UK's liability in all this is their unfair treatment of the EU and by extension to the EU people in their attempt to give their people an advantage. .The EU would be abdicating it's responsibility if the did not respond in kind.

Unless of course I have misunderstood this whole thing completely and everything I said above is complete nonsense.
Did the EU have a contract with Astra Zeneca to provide a certain number of doses in a timely manner in exchange for funds provided by the EU?
Did this contract happened last spring while the UK was still part of the EU ?
Is the UK responsible for agreements made while it was a member of the EU?
Did the EU provide the agreed funds?
Did Astra Zeneca provide the agreed doses in the timeframe agreed?
What is the role of the UK in the inability of Astra Zeneca to perform?

[strigils]

IMO the UK's liability in all this is their unfair treatment of the EU

That is exactly where your interpretation went wrong BB. The UK has a contract with AZ nothing to do with the EU, no liability. Seriously, take a moment and read on the subject. I am not being nasty its just that all the articles to date are supposition and journalism, oh and Sausagism.

[Buckaroo Banzai]

That is exactly where your interpretation went wrong BB. The UK has a contract with AZ nothing to do with the EU, no liability. Seriously, take a moment and read on the subject. I am not being nasty its just that all the articles to date are supposition and journalism, oh and Sausagism.

I only know what I read, and not all, of it is always correct, in an AP article posted two hours ago titled

"EU explores legal avenues amid AstraZeneca vaccine dispute "
EU explores legal avenues amid AstraZeneca vaccine dispute

"The EU is at odds with AstraZeneca over expected delays in deliveries. AstraZeneca said last week that it planned to cut initial deliveries in the EU from the scheduled 80 million doses for the first quarter of the year to 31 million doses. The company cited reduced yields from its manufacturing plants in Europe, but the EU suspects doses produced in Europe have been directed elsewhere."

underlined is the pertinent section as it pertains to the UK , you can guess where the EU suspects the elsewhere the doses were directed is.