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  1. #6301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    Countries can afford to cull the worst members of society, .
    Crikey Chas that's a revelation; do rapists, murderers, TFLers and remainers have some genetic predisposition for a high mortality where COVID is concerned

  2. #6302
    ความรู้ลึกลับ HuangLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NamPikToot View Post
    Crikey Chas that's a revelation; do rapists, murderers, TFLers and remainers have some genetic predisposition for a high mortality where COVID is concerned

    Perhaps it's more nature's call.
    She'll decide and select who is worthy and whose not.

    ....and her choices might surprise the illusional superior classes.

  3. #6303
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    Troy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    Countries can afford to cull the worst members of society, but they cannot afford an indefinite economic slump.
    I don't think the virus distinguishes, it'll happily take out the good along with the bad.

  4. #6304
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    Given the unknowns in the nature and development of the virus, and the urgency to the economy, maybe it would be better to return to normal. Let the disease run its course, and get back to work.
    In most cases the virus will attack and kill the weak and vulnerable, leaving behind a healthier, stronger population.
    Those who survive will be either resistant, or develop immunity.
    Isolation, quarantine and special measures no longer required. Loads of dead people, but no more virus.
    Countries can afford to cull the worst members of society, but they cannot afford an indefinite economic slump.
    "From research over the past few decades, we understand some of the mechanisms that contribute to virus jumps between species. Influenza virus is a classic example. The virus contains eight genome segments and if two different viruses infect the same cell, segments from both can mix to create a novel virus species. If the proteins on the surface of the new virus have significantly changed from currently circulating influenza virus strains, then no one will have immunity and the new virus can easily spread."

    Top Tip: Don't pick Congo as your next holiday destination.

    New Ebola Outbreak in Congo, Already Hit by Measles and Coronavirus

    Five people have died in Mbandaka, a western city more than 750 miles away from another Ebola outbreak in the country. It is unclear how the disease emerged in the city during lockdown.
    New Ebola Outbreak in Congo, Already Hit by Measles and Coronavirus - The New York Times

  5. #6305
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    Coronavirus briefing: China refused to give WHO data, leaked recordings reveal.

    At the height of the coronavirus outbreak, Chinese officials kept vital information from the World Health Organisation which could have slowed the spread and saved lives.
    Recordings obtained by the Associated Press (AP) revealed WHO staffers were tossing up how to keep China on side while pressing them to provide gene sequences and detailed patient data.
    Desperate to not anger officials, the WHO publicly praised China by claiming it had “immediately” shared with them a genetic map of the virus, the investigation found.

    WHO claimed China’s commitment to transparency was “very impressive, and beyond words”, – even as officials were struggling to get the information they needed from them.

    China refused to release coronavirus data to WHO

  6. #6306
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    Quote Originally Posted by NamPikToot View Post
    Crikey Chas that's a revelation; do rapists, murderers, TFLers and remainers have some genetic predisposition for a high mortality where COVID is concerned
    The weak, the sick, the old and vulnerable are all subject to the whim of nature. That’s how selection works in the natural world.
    It has created significant issues in the cause of death attribution, where deaths are reported as COVID 19, instead of the underlying cause.
    Once they are dead, their politics and voting choices are lost forever, thus making statistics meaningless. ��

  7. #6307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    The weak, the sick, the old and vulnerable are all subject to the whim of nature
    ...not entirely: modern medicine has seen (and will continue to see) to that...

    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    ...a)In most cases the virus will attack and kill the weak and vulnerable, leaving behind a healthier, stronger population.
    b) Those who survive will be either resistant, or develop immunity.
    Isolation, quarantine and special measures no longer required. Loads of dead people, but no more virus.
    c) Countries can afford to cull the worst members of society, but they cannot afford an indefinite economic slump.
    a) unsupported by research (e.g. we don't know what viral effects may remain in "survivors")...
    b) unsupported by research
    c) so, the virus "decides" who the "worst" members of society are and does the survivors a favor then...sorry Nonna, but thanks for all the food...
    Last edited by tomcat; 03-06-2020 at 06:16 AM.
    Majestically enthroned amid the vulgar herd

  8. #6308
    ความรู้ลึกลับ HuangLao's Avatar
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    That's why it's referred to as a novel variety, as there's still so much the folks that study these things don't know about it.

    ....and they think they're gonna have a speedy vaccine developed [on a pathogen they don't fully comprehend] in six months?
    Good luck with that promoted fantasy.

  9. #6309
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
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    the spread of covid-19 is related to 2 things

    1 - how dense the population is
    2 - how dense the population is

  10. #6310
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    how dense the population is
    Yesterday hit Tops at the Mall early - before the Mall officially opened, they parked us up on the fourth floor, had to walk to the third floor and take the freight elevator to the Basement then escalator up to the First Floor Tops. Reason I mention this is the freight elevator, everybody wearing masks, yet, personnel sandwiched in sardine style.

    So, any thoughts on commuters as they open cities up. Mass transit sardine cans and high rise elevators.

    Have been on mass transit, New York, Boston, Chicago, Paris, Naples, Rome, and many more. They are all the same - sardine can transport. Any high rise elevator the hour stradling starting/quitting times. Sardine cans with lines waiting for the next car.

    Commuting to the work environment is in a word, Dense. Regardless of how the company has implemented social distancing protocols during your on the clock hours. Getting to and from work...

  11. #6311
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    This stunningly detailed timeline of Trump’s failures shows America’s coronavirus crisis was a man-made disaster

    An article illustrating the time line, from Reagan -> Trump (1985 - March 27 2020) stewardships, of ameristani actions and inactions, regarding the protection of it's citizens from infectious diseases.

    The emphasis of the report and detailed timeline is regarding the COVID19 pandemic.

    " Ronald Reagan was able to ignore the AIDS crisis for years because it was “a gay disease” and didn’t impact anyone close to him until his old Hollywood acquaintance Rock Hudson asked for—but did not receive—his help in 1985."

    ....

    "
    Human beings are fallible. No presidential administration is perfect.

    But it didn’t have to be this way.

    Had the Trump administration heeded advice from the outgoing Obama administration, or kept a competent disaster management team in place, or acted aggressively from the moment they were notified of the virus on January 3, or recommended social distancing sooner, or maintained consistent and transparent messaging, or used the formidable resources of the federal government early and often, we would be looking at a radically better future.


    Asked by NPR’s Terry Gross what went wrong with the test kits, Politico reporter Dan Diamond quoted a Trump administration official:


    “Terry, the question might not be what went wrong; it’s what went right?”

    This stunningly detailed timeline of Trump’s failures shows America’s coronavirus crisis was a man-made disaster – Alternet.org


    jabir

    Lots of quotes from various sources, and many of these, "March 3. Trump did nothing".
    Last edited by OhOh; 03-06-2020 at 09:12 AM. Reason: Note for jabir added
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  12. #6312
    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    No shit, Sherlock. Trump didn't do the right thing? Did this article blind you like an epiphany?

  13. #6313
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    No shit, Sherlock.
    Thank you for your reply, most useful.

  14. #6314
    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Thank you for your reply, most useful.
    Happy to hear that.

  15. #6315
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangLao View Post
    That's why it's referred to as a novel variety, as there's still so much the folks that study these things don't know about it.

    ....and they think they're gonna have a speedy vaccine developed [on a pathogen they don't fully comprehend] in six months?
    Good luck with that promoted fantasy.
    Maybe they've been working on it a lot longer than they're letting on?

  16. #6316
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    The weak, the sick, the old and vulnerable are all subject to the whim of nature. That’s how selection works in the natural world.
    No it isn't, and that isn't what Darwin said either.

  17. #6317
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Commuting to the work environment is in a word, Dense. Regardless of how the company has implemented social distancing protocols during your on the clock hours. Getting to and from work...
    Really? My commute is about 50 feet.


  18. #6318
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    But let's not forget the chinky cover up that let it spread in the first place.

    Even though you want us to.

  19. #6319
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    Isn't it a paradox that a country "exporting" the democracy and their way of life into the whole world cannot help not only the world with the pandemic but cannot help also ourselves?

    Moreover asking help from other "poor" countries?

    A very good assessment of the reasons why it has come to that serious stage was given by a man who knew a thing or two about that - a former labour minister, it was presented here already recently...

    Why is America so different from other advanced nations facing the same coronavirus threat? Why has everything gone so tragically wrong?

    Some of it is due to Trump and his hapless and corrupt collection of grifters, buffoons, sycophants, lobbyists and relatives.

    But there are also deeper roots.
    Under Trump, American exceptionalism means poverty, misery and death | Robert Reich | Opinion | The Guardian

  20. #6320
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Really? My commute is about 50 feet.

    The garret above to the internet cafe below ?

    The COVID-2019 Thread-egypt-jpg

  21. #6321
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Well more bedroom to lounge. I don't fancy that commute much.



  22. #6322
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    New guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warns that coronavirus antibody test results may still be too inaccurate to be reliably used to determine coronavirus-related policy. In addition, not enough is known about what exactly the presence of antibodies indicates in terms of future immunity, the CDC said on its website.

    These tests, also known as serologic tests, are meant to detect antibodies people develop after becoming infected with the coronavirus. Widespread, accurate testing could be vital in determining how rampant the spread of COVID-19 is and the true death rate of the disease.

    But the CDC says the tests are currently not accurate enough to be be factored into decision-making about about allowing large groups to gather, namely in schools, dormitories or correctional facilities.

    "Serologic test results should not be used to make decisions about returning persons to the workplace," the CDC added on its site.

    More than
    100,000 people in the U.S. have died from coronavirus, and the number of those infected has surpassed 1.6 million.

    According to the CDC, it takes between one and three weeks after someone develops coronavirus symptoms for antibodies to become detectable. When the antibodies are detectable, the CDC said the likelihood of being infectious are "greatly decreased," and that there is "some degree of immunity."

    But research on COVID-19 and the antibodies produced in response to infection is still ongoing, which is why the CDC says people who test positive for antibodies should not assume they're immune from getting the coronavirus going forward.


    The CDC also explained why testing may not give accurate results for many individuals.


    "For example, in a population where the prevalence is 5%, a test with 90% sensitivity and 95% specificity will yield a positive predictive value of 49%," the CDC said on its website. "In other words, less than half of those testing positive will truly have antibodies. Alternatively, the same test in a population with an antibody prevalence exceeding 52% will yield a positive predictive greater than 95%, meaning that less than one in 20 people testing positive will have a false positive test result."


    Even before the CDC's latest guidance, the accuracy of COVID-19 antibody tests has come under heavy scrutiny.


    In addition to many people reporting inaccurate results, many of the hundreds of antibody tests on the market have
    advertised claims "that make no sense," according to CBS News medical contributor Dr. David Agus.

    Agus previously told CBS News that even the information more accurate antibody tests provide can be misleading.

    "So the tests that we have now on the market ... Don't tell you individually whether you have the neutralizing antibodies, whether you have the antibodies that can prevent you from getting an infection again," he said.

    For now, the CDC has recommended that doctors and officials promote and use tests that have high specificity rates, meaning they correctly identify people who do not have traces of COVID-19. The tests are also recommended for people who show delayed symptoms of coronavirus.

    According to the CDC, everyone should continue to practice preventative measures — including social distancing, proper hygiene and wearing personal protective equipment — regardless of whether they have tested positive for antibodies or have had the coronavirus.


    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cdc-war...ng-2020-05-27/

  23. #6323
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    I would think Saudi may have asked them to do this rather than having to do it itself.

    Hundreds of thousands of Indonesian would-be pilgrims have had to put their haj plans on hold this year as the world’s largest Muslim-majority country has officially decided to cancel the 2020 haj over coronavirus concerns.

    Sri Kustini, 60, is just one of the people who had plans to embark on a haj trip this year. She has been waiting for years to go to Saudi Arabia, having registered for the pilgrimage in 2014.

    She said she had paid in February the full amount for the trip, which cost her hundreds of millions of rupiah in total.


    The resident of Gunung Kidul, Yogyakarta, said she found out about the government cancelling this year's haj from the news, which she forwarded to other would-be pilgrims. Her travel agent, Sri said, had yet to issue any announcement regarding the suspension.


    "Maybe Allah has yet to allow us to visit. We are neither disappointed nor upset. There will be another time," Sri told The Jakarta Post on Tuesday.


    "We accept the government's decision. We just need certainty that we will go [on haj] when this [the pandemic] has ended."


    Indonesia, which has the largest quota of haj pilgrims in the world, initially planned to send up to 221,000 people for the annual Muslim tradition. The Religious Affairs Ministry recorded that nearly 180,000 of the pilgrims had paid for their scheduled journeys.


    However, Religious Affairs Minister Fachrul Razi said the ongoing pandemic, as well as Saudi Arabia's indefinite suspension on haj and umrah (minor haj) trips, did not leave enough time for the government to prepare people's visas and protection measures.


    "There is no haj departure this year. Those who have paid and registered will be placed for next year’s departure,” Fachrul said on Tuesday.
    Indonesia cancels haj trips this year - National - The Jakarta Post

  24. #6324
    ความรู้ลึกลับ HuangLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    the spread of covid-19 is related to 2 things

    1 - how dense the population is
    2 - how dense the population is

    Seems to be having it's way among those said dense and disconnected populations.
    Wonder why that might be....?

  25. #6325
    ความรู้ลึกลับ HuangLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Isn't it a paradox that a country "exporting" the democracy and their way of life into the whole world cannot help not only the world with the pandemic but cannot help also ourselves?

    Moreover asking help from other "poor" countries?

    A very good assessment of the reasons why it has come to that serious stage was given by a man who knew a thing or two about that - a former labour minister, it was presented here already recently...



    Under Trump, American exceptionalism means poverty, misery and death | Robert Reich | Opinion | The Guardian

    Politically combative and confused, it may be - leading to what we observe today.
    Yet, have to believe that the greater base reasons for their overwhelming numbers is reflective of the societal and cultural character.

    Obviously, not terribly exceptional; enlightened; or special.

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