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  1. #5826
    Member Bettyboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    you can get an idea by looking at the increases in average deaths compared to last year

    the answer is that this virus is killing people - and not just the old and obese
    Well, if we work on the assumption of a 125 year scale then Covid-19 is not actually killing anybody... Hyperbole, yes, but that seems to be the basis of the argument that some are using - insanity...

  2. #5827
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    ^
    I think the point, which was well made is that it is not killing enough to justify the severe economic impact.

  3. #5828
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Well, not to praise, nor to denigrate, any countries administration in control of pandemics. The world went through it in 1918. Did the worlds countries administration of a global pandemic shine or fail miserably then?
    The world didn't have the scientific knowledge that it has now.

    Which means to be honest the response now has been appalling, especially that chinky shithead who could have nipped it in the bud.

  4. #5829
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Yup, that is the penny that fell off the table. And, in a perfect world, nobody falls off the table.

    Death is death, a function of life that no one can avoid. You can attach a picture to each and every death. And, each and every picture has a devoted family attached to it.


    The question is how much economic damage is the human race willing to absorb to combat a fairly mild disease. 60% asymptomatic, 20% mild inconvenience, 15% sick, 5% hospitalized. Fatals -unknown, but only a fraction of the hospitalized.


    How much does a person who is in their prime earning years with a family to raise and support, sacrifice for the greater good? Where do you draw the line?

    What price do you assign to a few additional years of poor quality of life living added to the life of an 80+ year old?
    You should set up some Death Panels Booners.


  5. #5830
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman123 View Post
    ^
    I think the point, which was well made is that it is not killing enough to justify the severe economic impact.
    It boils down to whether or not you think it is worth killing a lot more people so that the rich can keep the money flowing in, because that's all they're fucking moaning about.

    In an ideal world every country would drop a wealth tax bomb to pay for it, few of these greedy cunts are doing anything with the money other than hoarding it anyway.

  6. #5831
    Thailand Expat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman123 View Post
    that it is not killing enough to justify the severe economic impact.
    The COVID-2019 Thread-share-value-jpg

  7. #5832
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    It boils down to whether or not you think it is worth killing a lot more people so that the rich can keep the money flowing in, because that's all they're fucking moaning about.
    It is the poorer and less well off who will be the biggest losers of the global economic meltdown. The rich are well insulated and diversified to ensure it has minimum impact on their lifestyle.

    I personally think that once we accept what was previously unacceptable, we will reach the conclusion that the price to be paid economically by lockdown is too high and ultimately ineffectual.

    Let’s get everyone back to work with minimal social distancing, whilst advising the elderly and vulnerable to bunker down as they wish and maintain isolation if they desire.

  8. #5833
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    OhOh - if you think the planet will be destroyed by Covid 19 then you are even a bigger lunatic than I gave you credit for.

    And I gave you a lot of credit.

  9. #5834
    Thailand Expat
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    The world didn't have the scientific knowledge that it has now.

    Which means to be honest the response now has been appalling, especially that septic tank shithead who could have nipped it in the bud.
    FIFY.
    US alerted Israel, NATO to disease outbreak in China in November — TV report


    "US intelligence community became aware of the emerging disease in Wuhan in the second week of that month and drew up a classified document."

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-ale...vember-report/
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  10. #5835
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman123 View Post
    ^
    I think the point, which was well made is that it is not killing enough to justify the severe economic impact.
    sadly that is the point, trying to save people we wouldn't care about in the first place under normal circumstances

    global leaders are using this situation to test the limit of their authority, a dream come true

    and it's going to backfire badly,

  11. #5836
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman123 View Post
    to justify the severe economic impact.
    subsistence farmers probably make up the majority of the worlds population - and they couldn't give a sh1t about the stock market

    I will go back to work and just practice good hygiene and social distancing for the foreseeable future - which I am quite ok with

  12. #5837
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman123 View Post
    think the planet will be destroyed by Covid 19
    Nah.The planet will survive.

    Some fretful two legged mammals die. Some from illness, some from old age.

    But mostly because of Piss Poor Perception, Piss Poor Preparation and Piss Poor Performance.

    The nimble, the "informed", the media managers .... will survive.

    Attachment 50667

    Attachment 50668

    Attachment 50666

    Good luck to you and your tribe, 部落.

  13. #5838
    ความรู้ลึกลับ HuangLao's Avatar
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    Learning from numerous sources and experts within their respected fields that the possibilities exist of COVID-19 becoming endemic, as it finds itself changing form rapidly.

    Already been proven that this particular pathogen, of the last few months, appears differently from the first outbreaks throughout Asia to the later strain that has effect Europe, North America and other locales.

    It's a cousin of SARS and MERS, belonging to the Corona viruses, in which we still no little of - especially this one.......quite confounding to specialists, as it continues to manifest mysterious symptoms and extended conditions. Also been shown that, for the most part, an immunity quality cannot be secure -

    Though, there is some excitement among vaccine/antibody specialists as they believe that are on the cusp of developing a form of pathogen prophylactic.
    The caveat might suggest that this virus adapts and changes quite quickly - so tomorrow's breakthrough vaccine might not be effective for half the treated population.

    What is more disparaging is that we dwell on the death count in comparison to total documented cases. It's certainly no worse than any other seasonal virus that winds itself around the globe annually - only this one is different. They truly don't have a grasp on it, as they don't really know what the fuck it is.
    The recovery or little/mild effect rate is still amazingly remarkable - a 98 percentile.....almost pushing 99%.

    The winner is the bug. She finds a way.
    As we continue to take in everything related as a manufactured political entity.

    Perhaps, we're deserving of all this - most assuredly, particular sub-groups of our species are most deserving.
    Nature's odd kharma works it's magic in her own time.

  14. #5839
    ความรู้ลึกลับ HuangLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Nah.The planet will survive.

    Some fretful two legged mammals die. Some from illness, some from old age.

    But mostly because of Piss Poor Perception, Piss Poor Preparation and Piss Poor Performance.

    The nimble, the "informed", the media managers .... will survive.

    Attachment 50667

    Attachment 50668

    Attachment 50666

    Good luck to you and your tribe, 部落.

    It does cycle around.
    Nature understands who gets what and who doesn't.

    The long time disconnected and unaware are the first to go.

  15. #5840
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    tribe, 部落.
    tribe, tribe

    Also available in other languages.

  16. #5841
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangLao View Post
    there is some excitement among vaccine/antibody specialists
    I'm sure there is, it is their chance for their 15 minutes of fame and some financial reward too. Despite all the encouraging words, it is worth bearing in mind that there is no approved vaccine for any human coronavirus, only some hopeful candidates, after years of research. I assume, although I don't know for a fact, that vast resources are being ploughed into the search for a Covid vaccine. Let's hope it arrives before the mutations you mention make it barely effective.

  17. #5842
    ความรู้ลึกลับ HuangLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    I'm sure there is, it is their chance for their 15 minutes of fame and some financial reward too. Despite all the encouraging words, it is worth bearing in mind that there is no approved vaccine for any human coronavirus, only some hopeful candidates, after years of research. I assume, although I don't know for a fact, that vast resources are being ploughed into the search for a Covid vaccine. Let's hope it arrives before the mutations you mention make it barely effective.
    Indeed.
    Quite honestly, I don't believe we're gonna be able to keep up with it.

    On the fairer side.....it just might disappear [or not], as it's been known to happen with these things.

  18. #5843
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangLao View Post
    Though, there is some excitement among vaccine/antibody specialists as they believe that are on the cusp of developing a form of pathogen prophylactic.
    The caveat might suggest that this virus adapts and changes quite quickly - so tomorrow's breakthrough vaccine might not be effective for half the treated population.
    Saw a reasonable news blurb on the Covid and its ability to mutate or change. The scientist being interviewed reported that the Covid modifications they have seen in the genome appear mostly on the protein spikes it uses to attach to a cell. In the genome they found several very stable segments that have shown virtually no change over time and it is these specific segments of the genome that they were concentrating their efforts on.

    She presented their, the research and development teams, findings as or in a very positive light. The identification of stable target areas provides a positive detail in the possibility of being able to find or develop a working vaccine.

  19. #5844
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    The identification of stable target areas provides a positive detail in the possibility of being able to find or develop a working vaccine.
    I certainly wish them well. We all want to see fewer people dying before their time.

    The WHO were more circumspect yesterday:

    "It is important to put this on the table: this virus may become just another endemic virus in our communities, and this virus may never go away," Dr Ryan told the virtual press conference from Geneva.

    "HIV has not gone away - but we have come to terms with the virus."

    Dr Ryan then said he doesn't believe "anyone can predict when this disease will disappear".

    My interest here is in what this is all going to mean for the more mature amongst us who might be obliged to buy health insurance to stay in the LOS. It looked unaffordable before Covid kicked off. A year from now, we can only guess what things will look like but 'cheaper' isn't likely.

  20. #5845
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    My interest here is in what this is all going to mean for the more mature amongst us who might be obliged to buy health insurance to stay in the LOS. It looked unaffordable before Covid kicked off. A year from now, we can only guess what things will look like but 'cheaper' isn't likely.
    off topic - but... the required medical insurance is cost prohibitive for the over 70/75. However, there are many Thai families and extended families who do depend upon the above mentioned 70/75 year olds for financial support. As just about everything concerning immigration visas is "at the discretion of the individual I/O" there is a very good chance that: 1) a self insurance option of THB 440k in a medical dedicated account will be allowed, 2) a humanitarian based appeal could, or may happen, or, 3) a very restrictive yet qualified workaround policy will be provided by one of the insurance companies. Another possibility is that this issue will be talked about for decades with no real answer or resolution, but, a shitload of angst among the expat population.

  21. #5846
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Can't see the big drug companies being happy with that. I'm sure they will be paying Republicans to fuck it up, maybe in the approval process.

    Thousands of doses of a potential vaccine for Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome have been sitting in a freezer in Houston, Texas, shelved since 2016 after most of the world lost interest in the disease.

    Now, four years later, they have been given new life because scientists hope they will also work for COVID-19.
    Depending on the amount given to patients, anywhere from 23,000 to 230,000 doses of vaccine are currently at a storage facility called Cryogene in Houston.

    “We just could not get any money. Not from the government and not from private industry,” said Maria Elena Bottazzi, a professor of pediatrics at Baylor College of Medicine and one of the vaccine’s developers.


    Three organizations have agreed to shepherd the vaccine through clinical trials, and to ensure that it is safe and affordable. The protein-based vaccine is made using yeast, a similar method to the one employed in the manufacture of hepatitis B vaccines used around the world.


    “There’s a lot of knowledge and a lot of safety with this method,” said Bottazzi, who is co-director of the Texas Children’s Hospital Center for Vaccine Development. She said researchers hope to receive clearance from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to start clinical trials as soon as September.


    The three partners in the project are Baylor College of Medicine, Texas Children’s Hospital Center for Vaccine Development and PATH, a 43-year-old global nonprofit dedicated to improving public health.


    Deborah Higgins, PATH’s senior director for vaccine development, said that because the SARS virus and the new coronavirus “have so many similarities, we realized that there was reasonable potential for the vaccine to address the current pandemic. ...”


    “Instead of having to start from ground zero in developing a vaccine, this candidate is virtually ready to go into the clinic. It is very much ahead of the game.”


    PATH, which works in more than 70 countries, has partnered in developing vaccines against Japanese encephalitis, meningitis A and malaria.


    The SARS vaccine, known as RBD219N1, was developed by Bottazzi and colleague Peter Hotez, co-director of Texas Children’s Hospital Center for Vaccine Development.


    It works by targeting the key mechanism used by both SARS and the new coronavirus to infect cells.


    Both viruses use their spike protein to dock onto the outside of human cells, specifically onto one part of the cell, a receptor called ACE-2. Once the protein has docked, the virus is then able to penetrate the cells.


    The vaccine hinders this connection between the virus and human cell by blocking the portion of the spike protein that latches onto an ACE-2 receptor.


    Bottazzi said the vaccine has been tested on animals. It has also been tested successfully on a pseudovirus, a lab-made virus that closely resembles SARS-CoV-2 but is incapable of causing disease.

    Before hitting a funding wall in 2016, a consortium spent about five years and $6 million in grants from the National Institutes of Health to develop and test the vaccine. The consortium included Baylor College of Medicine, Texas Children’s Hospital Center, the New York Blood Center, Walter Reed Army Institute of Research and the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston.


    Once developed, the vaccine was manufactured by the Army.


    Then, in 2016, when researchers were ready to proceed to clinical trials, interest in the SARS vaccine vanished. Pharmaceutical companies weren’t interested. Neither was the Army or other U.S. government agencies.


    Other researchers eager to study SARS encountered similar problems. Although the disease faded away in 2004, a number of scientists worried that another coronavirus would surface.


    Nevan J. Krogan, a molecular biologist at University of California, San Francisco, said he applied for a grant to do SARS research but was unable to get funding.


    “There should have been a ton of research into SARS, but the money dried up,” Krogan said. “It was short-sightedness, not just on the part of government agencies, but also scientists themselves.”


    He stressed that scientists do the peer-review work that’s often used to make decisions on which grants receive funding and which do not.


    Now, after four years in limbo, the Baylor team has managed to find support for its shelved vaccine.


    “It’s exciting to now join in this endeavor with PATH to address this important global health threat,” said Hotez, co-developer of the vaccine with Bottazzi.


    Bottazzi stressed that researchers hope to keep the cost of their vaccine to less than $1 or $2 a dose.

    “It is becoming increasingly apparent that this virus poses great risk to low- and middle-income countries of South and Central America, Africa and Asia,” she said. “Our goal is to ensure that our development efforts lead to COVID-19 vaccines with global access, so populations can benefit in the many low-resource countries where it is so greatly needed.”
    https://www.journalstandard.com/news...st-coronavirus

  22. #5847
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    you can get an idea by looking at the increases in average deaths compared to last year

    the answer is that this virus is killing people - and not just the old and obese
    It is not as straightforward as that statement suggests:

    Using the UK governments figures for total fatalities up to 24th April. For the age group 0-30 the average weekly deaths up to end of March was 140. From the figures available for April, that weekly total has dropped to 132. Bear in mind these are deaths from all causes. The most likely reason for a drop of this nature is the reduction in road accident deaths. Which leads one to say that for the under 30s there is more chance of being killed in a road accident than dieing from CV-19.

    For the 30-60 age group the deaths are certainly higher, but it is not until the deaths of the over 60's are taken into consideration that the CV-19 mortality really hits. 92% of the deaths in the UK are in that age range.
    Blessed are the piss takers, for they shall inherit the mirth.

  23. #5848
    ความรู้ลึกลับ HuangLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo View Post
    Well, if we work on the assumption of a 125 year scale then Covid-19 is not actually killing anybody... Hyperbole, yes, but that seems to be the basis of the argument that some are using - insanity...

    This ain't nothing.
    Waiting on Mother Nature to engage in a political agenda and looking for revenge.

  24. #5849
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo View Post
    Trump brands Fauci’s caution over reopening ‘unacceptable’; "Unacceptable"?? WTF?
    Guess we won't be seeing or hearing much from him in the future.







    Coronavirus live news: global deaths near 300,000 as WHO says Covid-19 may never disappear | World news | The Guardian
    If it stays we'll learn to live with it, as we have with HIV, ebola, and the many other less troublesome diseases.

  25. #5850
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    If it stays we'll learn to live with it, as we have with HIV, ebola, and the many other less troublesome diseases.
    The WHO's view is that it will stay.

    Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

    Coronavirus may never go away, WHO official says | South China Morning Post

    We live (or did until recently) in a world of swift and easy international travel and with that comes the swift and easy spread of new diseases. Either the world accepts much greater restrictions on travel or finds a better way to deal with the next pandemic, other than putting half the world under house arrest.

    I'm not sure why Bllomberg's headline changes but the link takes you to the appropriate article.
    Last edited by Warwick; 14-05-2020 at 07:34 PM. Reason: Odd link change

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