The COVID-2019 Thread

[Norton]

credit card re-payments

Coincidentaly I recieved an email from my credit card company saying payment is suspended with no late charges until the lockdown is lifted.

Thought twas a decent thing to do.

[Chico]

So lots of talk but no theory. What is your take on it?

My take on it we need to know the difference in deaths from last year to this year in countries affected by the virus,or if govts are relating deaths to the virus rather than deaths from other sickness and old age.

Yesterday i tried to get the number of deaths from a UK govt website and the download said the information wasn't available at the present moment

[Bettyboo]

India probably has several hundred thousand cases already, same with South Africa and many other places, imho...

The John Hopkins (and other) dashboard is a nice indication, but very country has a different way to arrive at their numbers - it's a lottery.

[Chico]

India probably has several hundred thousand cases already, same with South Africa and many other places, imho...

Betty you where very worried about south Korea a couple of weeks ago and looked what happened over there,its more probable the virus would of spread throughout Asia first and then travelled the US, but nah looked what happened.

[Edmond]

India probably has several hundred thousand cases already, same with South Africa and many other places, imho...

Are there official numbers on how many people have been tested in India?

[Bettyboo]

^ that a good question; I'm not sure an accurate/honest answer is available. India is on lockdown, but they almost certainly don't have the ability to track cases like the East Asian countries have done. I don't see how they could possibly stop multiple hotspots occurring across the nation because their lockdown took a longtime coming and the air travel restrictions were bitty and slow to come too.

Coronavirus: Travel restrictions, border shutdowns by country | Coronavirus pandemic News | Al Jazeera


Places like Taiwan (as Korea) have had mandatory 14 day quarantine for a long time now for people entering the country.

Taiwan Closes Borders in Preparation for Possible ‘Second Wave’ of the Coronavirus – The Diplomat

Betty you where very worried about south Korea a couple of weeks ago and looked what happened over there,its more probable the virus would of spread throughout Asia first and then travelled the US, but nah looked what happened.

I've explained this in detail already, there are two different approaches:

1) the successful approach that Taiwan, Singapore, HK and Korea took: track every case, check every individual via their mobile phone trackers, down to where they shopped, what train/bus they took at what time, etc, you follow up by putting anybody who has possibly been in contact with them in some form of quarantine. Hospitals, doctors and nurses are protected by security guards who check folks for high temperature and symptoms as they enter hospital/GP grounds, and anybody showing symptoms is NOT allowed in! They go home, call a number, go into self quarantine, then if their condition becomes serious then the health services collect them in full chemical protection gear and take them to a special care unit. If one person tests positive, as per a workplace in Seoul, the entire building and everyone in it is put into some form of quarantine (depending upon the situation). Hotspots are dealt with totally, zero tolerance, so that cases do not spread.

2) The f'kin stupid way that Europe and the US had followed: don't particularly use technology, leave the virus and people to their own devices, then when the virus has spread far and wide and the healthcare facilities are starting to capitulate then put emergency measures in place... Too late, at that point you're just desperately waiting for a vaccine.

India, Africa, South America have no way of managing the situation with regard to technology, professional management or healthcare facilities - they probably don't even have a rigid testing program or the ability to implement it (a bit like the UK...).

If you have numerous hotspots in a nation then the virus is out of control and cannot be managed in any other way than social distancing in an effort to 'lessen the curve' so health care services are not overwhelmed. Europe and the US did not even start acting until there were numerous hotspots around their countries - stupidity in the extreme...

The problem for the likes of Korea is that a second wave can easily occur which might get out of control. For example, most new cases in Korea are from Koreans who are returning from Europe, the US, etc with the virus.

[Edmond]

I've explained this in detail already

I have a feeling that that poster has heard this quite a few times in his lifetime.

[Chico]

So Betty whats happened with the likes of Macau,Hong kong, Taiwan and all the other Chinese cities not effected by the virus.

Please don't put this down to apps and how they contained it,viruses spread like wildfire.

[harrybarracuda]

So Your all saying the virus has traveled over 11,500 kms and bypassed most of the Asian countries,and not even had a problem in Beijing/Shanghai.

Surely you can see the absurdity in the situation,India has a shit health service second biggest population in the world but how many cases?

Though America has over 600,000 cases around 30% of all cases around the globe.

Nah something not right here.

Testing, most likely.

[Bettyboo]

So Betty whats happened with the likes of Macau,Hong kong, Taiwan and all the other Chinese cities not effected by the virus.

Please don't put this down to apps and how they contained it,viruses spread like wildfire.

Taiwan and Hong Kong are not 'other Chinese' cities - they all despise the Chinese, and know very well how Chinese viruses spread. Hence, they used technology, common sense, experience and quick actions to track all cases and people who can have been in contact with them during the period when infection may have been spread.

& yeah, apps and phone tracking from day 1...

How Taiwan is containing coronavirus – despite diplomatic isolation by China | World news | The Guardian

[harrybarracuda]

PATTAYA: After a chaotic first day featuring traffic jams at overwhelmed checkpoints, Pattaya City officials have been forced to adjust their lockdown as they try to curb the spread of Covid-19.

In addition to changing the locations of the checkpoints, authorities will focus their attention on securely locking down an inner part of the city where about 2,800 foreign tourists are staying and most of the infections have occurred, starting on Tuesday.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1897390/pattaya-to-adjust-lockdown

[harrybarracuda]

So Betty whats happened with the likes of Macau,Hong kong, Taiwan and all the other Chinese cities not effected by the virus.

Please don't put this down to apps and how they contained it,viruses spread like wildfire.

Actually contact tracing is a critical part of controlling the spread.

It's why Apple and Google are looking at making that available to everyone.

[jabir]

^ that a good question; I'm not sure an accurate/honest answer is available. India is on lockdown, but they almost certainly don't have the ability to track cases like the East Asian countries have done.



I've explained this in detail already, there are two different approaches:

1) the successful approach that Taiwan, Singapore, HK and Korea took: track every case, check every individual via their mobile phone trackers, down to where they shopped, what train/bus they took at what time, etc, you follow up by putting anybody who has possibly been in contact with them in some form of quarantine. Hospitals, doctors and nurses are protected by security guards who check folks for high temperature and symptoms as they enter hospital/GP grounds, and anybody showing symptoms is NOT allowed in! They go home, call a number, go into self quarantine, then if their condition becomes serious then the health services collect them in full chemical protection gear and take them to a special care unit. If one person tests positive, as per a workplace in Seoul, the entire building and everyone in it is put into some form of quarantine (depending upon the situation). Hotspots are dealt with totally, zero tolerance, so that cases do not spread.

2) The f'kin stupid way that Europe and the US had followed: don't particularly use technology, leave the virus and people to their own devices, then when the virus has spread far and wide and the healthcare facilities are starting to capitulate then put emergency measures in place... Too late, at that point you're just desperately waiting for a vaccine.

India, Africa, South America have no way of managing the situation with regard to technology, professional management or healthcare facilities - they probably don't even have a rigid testing program or the ability to implement it (a bit like the UK...).
....

Nobody knows what should've been the right approach for each country, or if there should've been uniform measures imposed at the early stages; something to work on for the next one, and would be nice if someone explained why these were not addressed after the last one.

The first approach you list appears to have worked well in small territories like Singapore, Taiwan and HK with small concentrated populations and with adequate services. Could these work equally well in bigger countries with significantly larger populations, say Italy or UK or France? My guess is even if the hardware were available they would hit a wall with the logistics of quarantining thousands to tens of thousands of entire city blocks and rural areas.

And as you say India, Africa and SAmerica are not only left to their own inadequate devices in dealing with the virus but also screening and reporting; iow a clusterfcuk covering three billion people.

My guess as a terminal cynic is that many lessons are staring us in the face while few will be properly addressed, so that little will change in preparation for the next one.

[harrybarracuda]

Are there official numbers on how many people have been tested in India?

Not a lot, and to be honest where would they get the number they realistically need?

As of 9 April, the country had conducted a total of 144,910 tests — one of the lowest test rates per capita in the world. Some states have reported no tests at all.

People power: How India is attempting to slow the coronavirus

[harrybarracuda]

Nobody knows what should've been the right approach for each country, or if there should've been uniform measures imposed at the early stages;

The whole world should have taken any inbound Chinese traveller and isolated them in some sort of "re-education camp", where they would all be gloriously happy at the opportunity to be of service.

[harrybarracuda]

Attachment 48564

MUKDAHAN: Customs officials have seized millions of baht worth of smuggled face masks, thermometers and other protective gear from a transport firm in Muang district of this northeastern province.
Officials were dispatched to the company premises on the Mukdahan-Nakhon Phanom bypass road in Muang district on Friday following a tip-off that many untaxed face masks and other products were there, said Sirichai Khunabut, director of the Customs Office Region 2.
The officials found a total of 1,893 cardboard boxes had been placed in front of the firm for sorting. The boxes contained 2,500 infrared thermometers and 800 mercury thermometers made in China, 12,500 face masks made in Vietnam and other protective gear. All were untaxed, Mr Sirichai said at a briefing on Saturday.
An investigation found that the products had been smuggled from China and Vietnam via Laos, across the Mekong River into Thailand. None of the shipments went through customs procedures. All of the products were seized and handed over to the Mukdahan customs office.
Demand has been huge for face masks, alcohol and related products in the country amid the outbreak of Covid-19, with an increase in hoarding, profiteering and smuggling as a result.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1897800/big-haul-of-smuggled-face-masks-in-mukdahan

[Bettyboo]

You have to be aggressive with this virus from the start. Full stop. Period.

The US and Europe had a month or more to be ready, but did not take the aggressive actions required. Remember, Korea had 7,000 or so cases just from one church linked to China (Wuhan) - they tested over 20,000 people in that church straight away, and also ramped up the emergency laws when members from the church refused to be tested or quarantined - the police forced them. This was back in February? Everything was clear and transparent, and I commented at the time then when every single person in Incheon Airport was wearing a mask, medical gel available everywhere, temperatures taken several times before getting on a plane, and folks arriving from China being tested and moved to quarantine on the tarmac, not even entering the terminal building... at that time, we had pictures on how the US and UK were just not taking any measures at all although it's just as easy for an infected person to fly into Heathrow as Incheon...

The UK is a f'kin island - it could have put strict measures in place at the borders, taken this virus seriously and then they'd be no need for a lockdown. There's no lockdown in Korea; I went shopping yesterday then popped to the pub on the way back and picked the dog up from puppy play school...

[Chico]

Taiwan and Hong Kong are not 'other Chinese' cities

I'm well aware of the status of HK and Taiwan

The other Chinese cities we're a reference to Chinese cities in China.

Its plain to see that many Asian countries have not had the effect that western countries have had, it sit more likely the chinese are visiting Asian countries than western countries.

[misskit]

Russia to Diagnose Coronavirus Without Tests as Suspicions Mount

Russian doctors will now be able to diagnose patients with coronavirus without running lab tests, the country’s top health official has said as Russia’s relatively low infection figures have drawn suspicion among medical experts.


The move comes after a new Russian study placed the accuracy of the country’s Covid-19 tests at 70% to 80%, with the rest being false negatives. Russia is currently the world’s 17th-most affected country with 11,917 officially reported coronavirus cases Friday.

“We see that the course of the disease is sometimes so quick that it has a distinct clinical picture,” Health Minister Mikhail Murashko said in an interview Thursday.


“That’s why it’s diagnosed without laboratory confirmation. It’s standard practice for doctors,” Murashko told the state-run Rossia television channel.

His interview follows Moscow doctors’ decision to treat all pneumonia patients as potential coronavirus patients because the fast-spreading virus often causes pneumonia.


A sharp spike in pneumonia cases in the Russian capital in March stoked concerns about the accuracy of coronavirus tests in the country, Reuters reported at the time.


Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin warned residents Friday that “we haven’t reached a peak” in coronavirus infections yet.

Russia to Diagnose Coronavirus Without Tests as Suspicions Mount - The Moscow Times

[Iceman123]

Actually contact tracing is a critical part of controlling the spread.

It's why Apple and Google are looking at making that available to everyone.

Bit late for that in Us and Europe methinks

[misskit]

More than 2,200 coronavirus deaths in nursing homes, but federal government isn't tracking them


The numbers are likely a significant undercount, given the limited access to testing and other constraints, state officials and public health experts say.

Nearly 2,500 long-term care facilities in 36 states are battling coronavirus cases, according to data gathered by NBC News from state agencies, an explosive increase of 522 percent compared to a federal tally just 10 days ago.


The total dwarfs the last federal estimate on March 30 — based on “informal outreach” to state health departments — that more than 400 nursing homes had at least one case of the virus.


The full scale of the virus’ impact is even greater than NBC News’ tally, as key states including Florida did not provide data, and nursing homes across the United States are still struggling for access to testing.

MORE More than 2,200 coronavirus deaths in nursing homes, but federal government isn'''t tracking them

[Iceman123]

a lot of things doesn't add up and why we have a confinement for a disease with a theorical death rate of 1%

150-160,000 people die annually in Australia,
So far 53 people have died from covid 19 - the lockdown here is overkill. The payback in economical terms is horrendous and will far outweigh the life saving benefits.

Maybe the powers that be know something we don’t - The lab in Wuhan is my pick for the start of this pandemic.

[Latindancer]

In Britain yesterday there were more than 1,000 deaths.....more than Italy or Spain had on any one day.


Because of early lockdown, here in Oz we have had a total of less than 60......and half of them were because some idiots let infected cruise ship passengers disembark.

It's quite a scandal....the Ruby Princess is a name that will resound for quite some time.

[HuangLao]

So Betty whats happened with the likes of Macau,Hong kong, Taiwan and all the other Chinese cities not effected by the virus.

Please don't put this down to apps and how they contained it,viruses spread like wildfire.

Not if it's movement is checked and somewhat isolated, as most of Asia has successfully done.

It's primarily the West that failed to get it, as it rages on as so.
The protocol and social awareness has failed quite miserably, obviously.

The initial Asian models of containment were not borrowed as a learning tool.

So much for your Occidental exceptionalism and enlightenment.



....as there is already talk of a second wave, the world over.
You've yet to get a handle on the fist one - big trouble looms.

[misskit]

....as there is already talk of a second wave, the world over.
You've yet to get a handle on the fist one - big trouble looms.

Each time a country pats itself on the back for slowing the virus, this is what I think about.