Thread: Indonesian police say 32 dead, 1 missing in Papua attacks

Originally Posted by Switch

Is anyone beginning to see the pointlessness of this dispute now?

I'm not. The West Papuan's land is their land and disputes via any court of law are hopleless.

Originally Posted by Switch

It seems that strong religious overtones are present here also. If Manny accepts that the same is true of Israel Palestine, he might have been accidentally right in the first place.

No need to bring religion into either scenario. Land theft is land theft, religion only serves the land-grabbers as an excuse to be righteous. Nothing accidental in me being right .

Originally Posted by Switch

The fact that unlawful killing is wrong

That's not a fact, that's an opinion. Unlawful killings are unlawful, "wrongness" is a matter of opinion depending on your POV and moral code.

Originally Posted by tomcat

.a) greater media exposure to the oppressive Jakarta regime (think Timor) and the determination of Free Papua, b) increased funding from Papuan/other supporters to continue resistance (and yes, killing when necessary) and c) the possibility that Jakarta politicians/nationalists might slow or rethink their rapacious policies...such deaths aren't meaningless at all: just bad luck for those caught up in the struggle...

Well said.

Originally Posted by Switch

I’m sure I don’t need to point out the value of one life in this or any other dispute. Ways and means. This is not the way nor the means by which you or your opposite number will achieve a desirable outcome.

In NZ, all homicide is unlawful, there is no self defence law. If I was to come home and see two well-known armed and extremely dangerous escaped criminals in my house, one busy raping my little girl, the other, having just finished eviscerating my wife is approaching my other little girl and unbuttoning his fly, bloodied hands holding a large knife. One of them has left a loaded shotgun on the floor by my feet. I pick up the shotgun and shoot the both of them in the head. I've broken the law. But I'll not hang my head in shame as I stand in the dock, and I would bet dollars to peanuts that the majority of decent people, all with moral codes, would not say I did the wrong thing. In your moral code, you'd find my unlawful killing wrong. Shame on you.

Originally Posted by tomcat

a desirable outcome is, of course, a subjective notion

Of course it is. Only a blinkered, narrow-minded, holier-than-thou I'm-better-than-you, know-better-than-you idiot would not agree.

https://goo.gl/images/13Qgvd

Great comeback.

https://goo.gl/images/13Qgvd right back at ya.

Which bits of my response couldn't you respond to with words? All of it? I thought so.

Originally Posted by Maanaam

Great comeback.

https://goo.gl/images/13Qgvd right back at ya.

Which bits of my response couldn't you respond to with words? All of it? I thought so.

Ludicrous to try when you go to such incredible lengths to justify what you see as acceptable behavior.

All those words, when you could just have said, justifiable homicide. You really are a joke. No wonder people don’t take you seriously. You pop up everywhere with your opinions on everything. You hate it when you are universally ignored, the sink into apoplectic rage when anyone challenges your ill thought out daft ideas.

Double face palm fully justified in your case. lol

Twitch lacks the most basic debating skills and common courtesy. It really is pointless to engage with him in a respectful manner.

Originally Posted by stroller

Twitch lacks the most basic debating skills and common courtesy. It really is pointless to engage with him in a respectful manner.

The post was not addressed to you so there’s really no need for your worthless opinion on here.

Just keep bashing the buttons until you can send me another angry red repo. Whatever makes you feel better spunkbubble

Q.E.D.

Originally Posted by Switch

All those words, when you could just have said, justifiable homicide

But.... you keep going on about "unlawful death". There is no "justifiable homocide" in NZ...I thought that was clear with me saying there is no self defence law. The death would have been unlawful, which in your book is wrong. The deaths in West Papua are unlawful, so they are wrong in your book. Why do you keep shifting your stance?
What is a "justifiable death"? I suggest a man defending his property and descendant's rights where the court wil not defend them for him.

Killing is a conundrum that will be debated to the end of time. There will be opinions on both sides of the subject. Justifiable killing is a very subjective view and is as varied as the number of cultures and religions. Some believe killing animals for food is not justifiable.
It sometimes appears to me the smaller the creature is, the more killing can be justifiable. Many people would balk at eating whales or Dolphins but would not hesitate to eat octopus which also exhibit a level of intelligence. Some are guided by the level of "cuteness" of a creature. Many would kill a caterpillar in their garden without hesitation but not a butterfly. Other insects are judged on their perceived "usefulness" to humankind. The ladybird versus the mosquito. I dont think many would choose the mosquito. Enough of philosophy as this is only my subjective opinion.
The only ones who seem to have a clear view on this subject are the Jains.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism

Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

Justifiable killing is a very subjective view and is as varied as the number of cultures and religions.

Indeed. At least Switch has changed his stance from "NO killing is justifiable" to "there is justifiable killing".

Originally Posted by Maanaam

But.... you keep going on about "unlawful death". There is no "justifiable homocide" in NZ...I thought that was clear with me saying there is no self defence law. The death would have been unlawful, which in your book is wrong. The deaths in West Papua are unlawful, so they are wrong in your book. Why do you keep shifting your stance?
What is a "justifiable death"? I suggest a man defending his property and descendant's rights where the court wil not defend them for him.

Geography is not your strong point is it? NZ is not part of Indonesia, but it is probably a signatory to the ICC.

Originally Posted by Maanaam

Indeed. At least Switch has changed his stance from "NO killing is justifiable" to "there is justifiable killing".

Making shit up by adding your own interpretation of my post doesn’t work.

Originally Posted by Switch

Geography is not your strong point is it? NZ is not part of Indonesia, but it is probably a signatory to the ICC.

Logic and comprehension are not your strong points, are they? Spinning, jumping to illogical conclusions, and an ability to take words and imbue them with meanings way out of context are, though.

Originally Posted by Switch

Making shit up by adding your own interpretation of my post doesn’t work.

You are the one who, in response to my hypothetical situation of an unlawful killing in NZ, brought up "justifiable homicide".

Originally Posted by Maanaam

Indeed. At least Switch has changed his stance from "NO killing is justifiable" to "there is justifiable killing".

No, he acknowledged that there are other views than his own. I'd take this as a major concession, you won't get more out of the senile bigot.

Originally Posted by Maanaam

Logic and comprehension are not your strong points, are they? Spinning, jumping to illogical conclusions, and an ability to take words and imbue them with meanings way out of context are, though.
You are the one who, in response to my hypothetical situation of an unlawful killing in NZ, brought up "justifiable homicide".

you have never even considered what that whooshing sound is have you? I realise it must be tempting to test your language skills in English, but try to avoid ambiguity. You will find that your comprehension skills improve and you won’t leave yourself open to lost meanings all over the place.
Ive explained for you etc.

Originally Posted by Switch

you have never even considered what that whooshing sound is have you? I realise it must be tempting to test your language skills in English, but try to avoid ambiguity. You will find that your comprehension skills improve and you won’t leave yourself open to lost meanings all over the place.
Ive explained for you etc.

I sincerely hope you are not, and have never been, an English teacher in SE Asia. Or any sort of teacher.

Originally Posted by Maanaam

I sincerely hope you are not, and have never been, an English teacher in SE Asia. Or any sort of teacher.

I have spent years in the training environment and I am a qualified training needs analyst. I have briefed at the senior level including the British Royal family.

I also hold a BSc (Hons) degree, so you are a bit out of your depth here young man. So sorry to dash your hopes.

This is not the army barracks where barking at your inferiors gets the job done, commander.

Originally Posted by Switch

I also hold a BSc (Hons) degree, so you are a bit out of your depth here young man.

Your leap of illogic defies your science background.