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  1. #51
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    OK, mate understood.


    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille
    This thread is about what LT overheard
    I was told directly by an OEM supplier of these companies who was told by top management about their plans.

    There is also a report circulating on the internet confirming that Toyota = 60% going to Philippines - Fortuna and Altis and Corolla, Nissan closing and moving to Hanoi.

    I am trying to find this document but the real issue is, and even with the devaluation of the Baht, Thailand has to confront the fact that global business is important and this ongoing political situation is hurting it's reputation.

    Neigbouring countries are now ready and willing to take on business offering many benefits with relative political stability.

  2. #52
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    If so it would certainly represent a big turnaround from two and a half years ago.

    Toyota investing on big things in Thailand - The Nation

    This was before the after effects of that totally dumb decision to subsidise car purchases, admittedly. An idiotic populist stunt initiated by an elected civilian government.
    'That's the nature of progress, isn' t it. It always goes on longer than it's needed'. - JCC

  3. #53
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    ^ The coup is a bigger problem than you're accounting for. As long as it's in effect Thailand will roll backwards, as it has been.

  4. #54
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Corruption and incompetence in government has been problematic for decades. I'm not saying military rule is great for business, just that it's the best of the pisspoor options available at the moment.

    Thailand failed to capitalise on the boom years starting in the Chatchai era by investing in infrastructure and education and in the longer term a heavy toll has been and will be exacted.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    If so it would certainly represent a big turnaround from two and a half years ago.

    Toyota investing on big things in Thailand - The Nation

    This was before the after effects of that totally dumb decision to subsidise car purchases, admittedly. An idiotic populist stunt initiated by an elected civilian government.
    Yep. Was supposed to be a gimme for the Japanese car manufacturers damaged by the terrible flooding here, and the Tsunami in Japan. Like most recent attempts to manipulate the market by Thaksin and family, it has come back to haunt Thailand.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille
    Chas reckons farang en masse will be targeted for crime in Thailand - something which has never previously happened in the history of he Kingdom.
    Please cease and desist with your exaggeration of what I actually said.

    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille
    Please, please, no stuff about the weakening global economy
    Couldn't agree more. It's like the Tories blaming labour after 5 years of coalition government.
    Thailand has got itself into deep shit because it is being managed by xenophobes who care more about what Uni stdents wear and drink, than it does about the fact that non performing loans amount to over 80% of GDP. As GDP shrinks due to their incompetence, that figure will continue to rise.
    A couple of simple facts.
    1. There is a problem.
    2. It will continue to worsen.
    3. The Thai people will be very angry at the outcome when they finally wake up.

  7. #57
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    From that article, published in 2013...

    Toyota plans to build its second assembly plant at the Gateway Industrial Estate in Chachoengsao with an investment of Bt12 billion in order to raise capacity for passenger cars including the Eco Car, which will be launched during the third quarter of the year. This will raise production at the Gateway complex from 220,000 to 300,000 units per year.

    In fact, Toyota has plans to invest as much as Bt20 billion to build a new plant in order to raise capacity to 1.2 million units per year within the next five years, and promote Thailand as its regional and global production hub.

    Tanada said late last year that he was highly satisfied with two major issues that has been successfully completed, leaving the last hurdle of pushing Thailand to its highest limits.

    The Gateway investment will raise Toyota's production capacity in Thailand close to one million units within the next two years. It is also planning to expand the Ban Pho plant in Chachoengsao, which manufactures vehicles from the IMV 2 project as well as other models.

    This will give Toyota a capacity of 1.2 million units within the next five years, he said.

    Last year Toyota also announced that it would spend Bt16 billion to produce diesel engines for the new Hilux pickup and Fortuner PPV. The engine plant is expected to be completed in 2015.

    It can easily be said that as much as 40 per cent of the trillions of investment that took place during the last five decades in the Thai auto industry belongs to Toyota, and this also reflects Thailand's importance to this giant auto maker, as a major global production and export hub.
    I certainly look forward to seeing that document Loy Toy refers to about Toyota moving 60% of their Thai based production to the Phillipines.

  8. #58
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chassamui
    Others will blame the 'wealthy' farang and white folk will not be safe.
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille
    Chas reckons farang en masse will be targeted for crime in Thailand - something which has never previously happened in the history of he Kingdom.
    Quote Originally Posted by chassamui
    Please cease and desist with your exaggeration of what I actually said.
    How am I exaggerating? You posted that white people, as an ethnic group, will be victimised on the basis of their skin colour.


    Quote Originally Posted by chassamui
    A couple of simple facts.
    1. There is a problem.
    2. It will continue to worsen.
    3. The Thai people will be very angry at the outcome when they finally wake up.
    Three things there, chas, and the second two are predictions, not facts.

    You seem to be shifting towards my view that most of the problems have been caused by decades of mismanagement rather than the current military rule though, so I suppose that's a start.

  9. #59
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    Toyota Thailand is slashing 60% of its Thai work force? Pretty massive news if so.

  10. #60
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Indeed.
    There's 36 billion baht of investment referred to just in those excerpts I made...all in plant due to come fully online within the next couple of years.
    Did it never happen?
    Will it just be abandoned?

  11. #61
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille
    I certainly look forward to seeing that document Loy Toy refers to about Toyota moving 60% of their Thai based production to the Phillipines.
    Still looking but found this which was published last October.

    Toyota may shift manufacturing hub for Fortuner to PH - The Standard

    In house discussions as of last week confirm they are now on the move.

  12. #62
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille
    There's 28 billion baht of investment
    These huge companies don't own land or buildings in Thailand.

    To move all their manufacturing machinery is an issue but they do it all the time.

    You will see Vietnam's economy grow enormously in the next 10 years due to the fact others have lost.

    The Phillipines will recover some of their lost business as well.

    Sad for Thailand and the people.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille
    There's 36 billion baht of investment referred to just in those excerpts I made
    These car plants nowadays can all be unbolted and moved and reassembled elsewhere

  14. #64
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    where did the 60% come from? That's a massive move. Or did you just mean 60% of Fortuner production, LT??

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille
    You seem to be shifting towards my view that most of the problems have been caused by decades of mismanagement rather than the current military rule though, so I suppose that's a start
    On the contrary Cy, you have just shoved your head further up your arse.


    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille
    There are three things there, chas, and the second two are predictions, not facts. The first one is so nebulous it's hard to know what to call it really. And how come you've left out 'white people will not be safe'?
    Point No1 was deliberately vague as it allows you ample room to avoid the obvious fact that there is actually a problem but it's ok and you can ignore it by claiming it might not exist.
    Point No2. I see no signs of positive change and every indication of the contrary on a daily basis.
    Point No. Do you think the Thai people will be as laid back as you are; It never happened before so let's just carry on with this downward spiral. Perhaps they will be more circumpsect and consider that while being unable to feed their families, tomorrow is another day and the military will save them. I dunno, I'm just guessing.

    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille
    How am I exaggerating? You posted that white people, as an ethnic group, will be victimised on the basis of their skin colour.
    No I did not. If you look again at what I actualy said in context, it is not the same as your selective cherry picking or wild assumptions based on race.
    I suggested that the Thai will be angry when they find that they are in debt and unemployed in large numbers. With no way out of that conundrum, they will look for someone to blame. I stated quite clearly that it could be the current government and or those who continue to prosper (perceived 'wealthy' farang) despite the downturn.
    I am not about to change my posting style and explain perfectly reasonable comments in great detail just so you can't misinterpret and twist them.

    Farang are commonly seen as a viable target for scams, theft and assault by a sector of the Thai community under less fragile circumstances. Do you consider that you and others will be immune if the shit really hits the fan?

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy
    I was told directly by an OEM supplier of these companies

    This guy who told you, would you buy a car off him ?





  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by chassamui View Post
    Farang are commonly seen as a viable target for scams, theft and assault by a sector of the Thai community under less fragile circumstances. Do you consider that you and others will be immune if the shit really hits the fan?
    I think that this Thai attitude towards farang is much more deeply ingrained in the Thai psyche than many like to admit, it's a feeling of superiority and entitlement over the farang that stretches from national parks and restaurants ect all the way to the judicial system, the farang pay considerably more in every respect, considering this attitude it's obvious that if Thailands ecconomy tanks to a point that people struggle to put food in their mouths , which is a distinct possibility, the farang will bare the brunt of a lot of resentment and hostity.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chassamui View Post
    Farang are commonly seen as a viable target for scams, theft and assault by a sector of the Thai community under less fragile circumstances. Do you consider that you and others will be immune if the shit really hits the fan?
    I think that this Thai attitude towards farang is much more deeply ingrained in the Thai psyche than many like to admit, it's a feeling of superiority and entitlement over the farang that stretches from national parks and restaurants ect all the way to the judicial system, the farang pay considerably more in every respect, considering this attitude it's obvious that if Thailands ecconomy tanks to a point that people struggle to put food in their mouths , which is a distinct possibility, the farang will bare the brunt of a lot of resentment and hostity.
    You said it much better than I did Stinky. The only observation I would make is that it will not take much to get them to turn against the Junta as well.

  19. #69
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    It will not be easy for farang that's for sure. If you live in the sticks you stand out as an easily acquired target. If you live in the cities or resort areas you become part of a target rich environment. Plenty of examples of farang abuse in the good times. Just wait until they are really pissed off.

  20. #70
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    What company director would think Thailand is a good place for manufacturing?

    -Draconian les majeste and defamation laws.
    -Flooding known to close complete regions.
    -Incoming managers and engineers need work permits.
    -Political uncertainty a given.
    -Corruption at many levels.

    Until a working government can make monumental changes in those areas, I doubt much growth will occur. There are many organizations in the world willing to teach Thailand about manufacturing, leadership, and hospitality science but the general attitude is not conducive to progress in any of those areas.


    Thailand's Generals Don't Have an Economic Plan - Bloomberg View
    You Make Your Own Luck

  21. #71
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dillinger
    This guy who told you, would you buy a car off him ?
    Actually one your kind (a pom), one of the nicest, straightest man I have ever met and a brilliant engineer doing work in Thailand for Japanese companies well within their spec!

    He is also extremely worried about Thailand's future.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by chassamui View Post
    ]You said it much better than I did Stinky. The only observation I would make is that it will not take much to get them to turn against the Junta as well.

    With the junta all but eliminating any opposition leadership any process of decline into civil unrest would likely be more chaotic and lawless than previously seen in recent history, I really hope that the system changes to avert this happening because I want to come back but I'll not bring my family into such uncertainty.

  23. #73
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinky
    I want to come back but I'll not bring my family into such uncertainty.
    I have seen changes over the 28 years I have been here but lately things are changing more rapidly then before but I still have faith in the place.

    I personally have recently received great support from the Thai legal system when most thought I was wasting my time.

    I still love Thailand and the Thai people here and fear for their future.

    The Chinese Thais can go f,,k themselves.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stinky
    I want to come back but I'll not bring my family into such uncertainty.
    I have seen changes over the 28 years I have been here but lately things are changing more rapidly then before but I still have faith in the place.

    I personally have recently received great support from the Thai legal system when most thought I was wasting my time.

    I still love Thailand and the Thai people here and fear for their future.

    The Chinese Thais can go f,,k themselves.

    Yes mate the place still holds great appeal for me too but make such big move I would need to feel more confident than I do.just now, a lot can change in a year so I'm just watching and hoping for the best,

  25. #75
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinky
    a lot can change in a year so I'm just watching and hoping for the best,
    I suppose Thailand can never change due to the people (not the Junta) running the underbelly of the country.

    They have been there since the 70's and still control the coin movement here.

    Personally I reckon Khun Prahyut?????? is doing his best under difficult almost impossible circumstances.

    He has admitted rampant corruption and has done his best to clean the system but I fear he cannot achieve his goal.

    It's up to those yellow f//kers to give Thailand a chance and forgo their greed.

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