Thread: Too much human faeces on Mount Everest, says Nepal

Human waste left by climbers on Mount Everest has become a problem that is causing pollution and threatening to spread disease on the world’s highest peak, the chief of Nepal’s mountaineering association said Tuesday.

The more than 700 climbers and guides who spend nearly two months on Everest’s slopes each climbing season leave large amounts of faeces and urine, and the issue has not been addressed, Ang Tshering told reporters.

He said Nepal’s government needs to get the climbers to dispose of the waste properly so the mountain remains pristine.

Hundreds of foreign climbers attempt to scale Everest during Nepal’s mountaineering season, which began this week and runs through May. Last year’s season was canceled after 16 local guides were killed in an avalanche in April.



Climbers spend weeks acclimatising around the four camps set up between the base camp at 5,300m (17,380ft) and the 8,850m-high (29,035ft) summit. The camps have tents and some essential equipment and supplies, but do not have toilets.

“Climbers usually dig holes in the snow for their toilet use and leave the human waste there,” Tshering said, adding that the waste has been “piling up” for years around the four camps.

At the base camp, where there are more porters, cooks and support staff during the climbing season, there are toilet tents with drums to store the waste. Once filled, the drums are carried to a lower area, where the waste is properly disposed.

Dawa Steven Sherpa, who has been leading Everest cleanup expeditions since 2008, said some climbers carry disposable travel toilet bags to use in the higher camps.

“It is a health hazard and the issue needs to be addressed,” he said.

Nepal’s government has not come up with a plan yet to tackle the issue of human waste. But starting this season, officials stationed at the base camp will strictly monitor garbage on the mountain, said Puspa Raj Katuwal, the head of the government’s Mountaineering Department.

The government imposed new rules last year requiring each climber to bring down to the base camp 8kgs (18 pounds) of trash the amount it estimates a climber discards along the route.

Climbing teams must leave a $4,000 deposit that they lose if they don’t comply with the regulations, Katuwal said.

More than 4,000 climbers have scaled summit since 1953, when it was first conquered by New Zealand climber Edmund Hillary and his Sherpa guide, Tenzing Norgay.

Hundreds of others have died in the attempt, while many have succeeded only with help from oxygen tanks, equipment porters and Sherpa guides.

Mount Everest 'of excrement'- Shame this beautiful place is being desecrated by ego boosting tourist hordes with too much money..

ridiculous ....

When I was doing the Annapurna circuit last year I contracted the trots due to poor kitchen hygiene.

I was caught short several times on the leg just north of Manang.

I hopped over a wall in an emergency on a beautiful blue sky morning and whipped down my trousers to quickly spray a litre of slurry only to find when I stood up that I had neglected to take a short shuffle forward to ensure that my rugby shirt, which was tied round my waist, was clear of the blast zone.



The entire front of the shirt was covered in a layer of stinking runny poo.

I had minimal clothes so was forced to wash the shirt clean in a stream and dry it in the sun before carrying on.

Fortunately I also had a cold so I could not smell it.

Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

Too much human faeces on Mount Everest, says Nepal

Are you allowed to post pics of the evidence here?...

The cost involved to climb it are mind boggling..

but people are willing to pay...

For 2015, costs have once again increased pushing the prices higher on both sides, especially for the low cost operators.

There are several drivers for the price increases. First the permit cost has gone up, not down as advertised by the Ministry. It is now a flat $11,000 per climber instead of $70,000 for a team of 7 or $10,000 per climber. Second, after the tragic deaths of 16 mountain workers in 2014, many companies will increase the life insurance required by the Ministry. It is now USD$15K up from USD$10K for what they call High Altitude Workers. Most operators will abide by these new levels but it is unclear if the requirement will be enforced evenly across the board and those competing on price will meet the requirement. The third reason for increased costs is inflation. Nepal’s inflation rate is currently 9.47%.

Additionally, Nepal has implemented a new rule that requires every foreign climber in Nepal to hire a local Sherpa Guide. This policy has been in place for trekkers since 2012 but not enforced. After the large number of trekker deaths in the Annapurna region earlier this year, the policy was re-communicated. I remain unclear if it will really be enforced in 2015 for Everest climbers but if so, will add a minimum of $4,000 to the absolute lowest cost.

Many non-Nepali operators are adding additional guides and services to their offering. Each Western Guide can make between $10K and $25K and this cost is passed on to the clients. Some companies are adding European chefs, adding to costs. Some are offering extra oxygen starting lower, adding to costs. In the end, this is real money and the client pays the tab.

Those at the high-end have again held their prices steady absorbing the increases. The average price of the companies I surveyed looks to be about $41,700 with no Western Guide and $57,000 on the south with Western Guides and $46,000 on the north.

The primary difference between north and south are the permit costs and support staff salaries. The North has seen dramatic prices variances for 2015 with high-end operators of Alpenglow ($79,000) and Himex ($64,000) entering the market and skewing averages. The traditional north operators average about $37,000.

A Change is Coming
But this is the real story: Nepal operators are taking over Everest from the south side. They are offering credible support at lower prices than non-Nepali operators. Asian Trekking has been doing this well for years. Other local operators include Monterosa, High Altitude Dreams, and Himalayan Ascent. The newest and major player today is Seven Summits Treks who reportedly had 98 clients on Everest in 2013. They offer a good product but are reported to pay staff a lower wage than non-Nepali operators.

Everest is no longer the sole domain of an affluent middle class in Europe, Russia, Australia, New Zealand and the US. It is now attractive to the same demographics in India, Nepal and China. These new clients seem to be attracted to the lowest price and Nepali owned support thus creating demand for companies to meet that need.

With Nepali companies offering Everest in the $25K-35K range and non-Nepali from $40K to $65K, the lines are being drawn. But there is a huge difference in what you get for these prices, it remains a buyer beware environment where selecting an unprepared operator (Nepali, non-Nepali, solo – all companies included) may mean your life.

Clearly, each individual must go to Everest ready to be self sufficient with the proper skills, experience and attitude. People die each year assuming their guide will take care of them in a crisis.

The end result is a continuation of the trend of Nepal based companies leading more Everest clients than non-Nepali operators. Ten years ago non-Nepali operators lead 80% of the clients up Everest, I predict in five years that will drop to 20%. This is one reason prices will continue to go up – more services at the top vs. a commodity offering at the bottom.

Cost Influences
There are real costs involved to climb Everest and it is not the place to save money. However, with guided expeditions charging from $30K to $100K, it is confusing. You can sometimes get a deal, but don’t count on it given the popularity of Everest. Most leading commercial guides sell out months in advance each year.

The Nepal and Tibet governments control much of the costs today with permit fees and requirements on wages, insurance and treatment of Sherpas, cooks and porters so a base price has been effectively established.

There are three ways to climb Everest: put together your own expedition, join a logistics only expedition or join a fully guided team.

Some climbers believe a solo expedition in the Messner 1980 north style is the way to save money; however the notion of a solo climb is somewhat academic today.

Before the explosion of commercially organized guides with dedicated Sherpas, ropes and ladders; a climber could go to the mountain (usually the north) and climb alone without using any of the common support systems. Some people try these days but end up using a ladder someone else put across a crevasse or a cook at base camp thus never really making a true solo climb. The best you can really achieve is without Sherpa support and still the costs are significant.

The majority of climbers use commercial expeditions because they spread the costs across multiple climbers thus reducing expenses and improving safety.

On Your Own
It is tempting to dream of planning your own Everest expedition. After all, anyone can fly to Kathmandu, buy a permit, food for 6 weeks; fly to Lukla or Lhasa, hire yaks and porters to get your gear to BC, establish your own base camp, cook all your own meals, determine your own weather forecast, make multiple climbs to ferry your own gear while establishing your high camps, pay for use of the fixed ropes, buy/rent oxygen, regulator, mask, summit, hire more yaks to get your gear back out or carry it yourself, and a ton of other stuff. It is certainly possible and done occasionally. However even these “independent” expeditions rely on some level of local logistics.

If saving money is the goal, you will be disappointed. You might have been able to do all this for under $15K back in the last century but definitely not today. The permit alone is $11,000. Even the first Swiss and British expeditions were massive undertakings requiring funding on a national level.

Cost Breakdown
To get started on the costs let’s look at the south but the north is similar with the permit being about $4,000 cheaper. There are fees every climber and expedition must pay – directly or indirectly: a climbing permit, liaison officer, visa, park fee, yaks, porters, icefall ladders and fixed ropes, waste deposit, travel, insurance, tents, food and fuel. At a minimum these total $23,000 for one person going alone. Even splitting group expenses the base costs are $26,000 for a 7 person team.

If you wanted to do a true solo, unsupported (no oxygen, Sherpa or cook support but using ladders and ropes) on the south side for one person it would cost at least $25,000.

When you add in oxygen and base camp support, a one-person climb with Sherpa support approaches $45,000 but a 7 person team leveraging the group costs comes in at $37,000.

All these estimates assume you get your $4,000 trash deposit back, not always true. None of these estimates include western guides, add another $10,000 to $25,000 for that. To fully gear up for an 8000m climb from nothing, add another $7,000 for boots, down suits, layers, etc. Finally, this does not include tips which can be a couple of thousand dollars in total.

The bottom line for me is that even with the 2015 individual permit price reduction, going with a team is less expensive and safer. The reason they can offer climbs less than what I have calculated is that they reuse gear from season to season, get volume discounts and, in some cases, pay below market wages to staff. Remember you always pay your own personal expenses like airfare, extra hotel nights, alcohol and tips.

This is my estimated break down and there are additional costs I have not included for example travel, insurance, etc. for the support staff required by the governments.

PERSONAL TRAVEL $2,425 – $6,325

Airfare $1500 to $5000 depending on class and routing and excess baggage
Transportation Kathmandu to Lukla $325 round trip per person
Hotel and food in Kathmandu $300 to $700 depending on delays
Nepal Visa $100
Immunizations $200
Getting to EBC $3,990 – $4,550

Yaks to and from Base Camp $150 per yak per day carrying 120lbs, (4 yaks for 4 days minimum or $2400)
Porters to and from Base Camp $75 per porter per day carrying 60lbs (3 porters for 6 days minimum or $1350)
Tea Houses and food on trek to EBC $20 – $100/person /day – 7 days $140 – $700
Park Fee $100/team
Climbing Fees $16,650 – $21,650

Nepalese Liaison Officer $2,500/team
South Base Camp Medical support $100/person
Permit $11,000 for each climber regardless of team size on South, $7,000 for Westerner, $3,000 for Nepali Sherpa on North
Garbage and human waste deposit $4,000/team permit (refundable but not always)
Icefall Doctors to fix route $2,500/team or $600 per climber
Contribution to fixed ropes above Icefall $150/climber
Weather forecast $0 to $1,000
Puja $300
EBC and High Camps $3,500 – $8,800

Tents $3,000 new (sleeping, cooking, toilet, storage at 4 camps for 3 people)
Cooks $5,000 per cook and assistant for 6 weeks
Food and fuel $800 per person for 6 weeks
Climbing $3,990 – $12,430

Oxygen $550/bottle (5 bottles) $2,750 (doesn’t include costs to take to high camps)
Oxygen Mask (Summit Oxygen) $440
Oxygen Regulator $500
Climbing Sherpa $5,000 per Personal Sherpa with same oxygen as client
Misc $11,650 – $16,400 – 36,400

Medical kit $1,000
Sherpas, cooks tips and bonus $250 – $2,000 per individual depending on performance and summit
Helicopter evacuation from EBC-South $5,000 – $20,000 depending on start and end locations (not available on north)
Rescue Insurance: $400
Personal Gear (down suit, high altitude boots, sleeping bags, etc): $7,000
Satellite phone (own) $1,000 to $3,000 depending on usage
gear allowance for Sherpas $2,000
OK, so now that it looks cost prohibitive to climb solo or even very independently for most people, let’s look deeper at climbing with an organized team.

Guide Definition
What is a guide? There are international organizations that certify guides such as the AMGA and the IFMGA. Individuals, after years of practical experience, go through extensive training across all types of terrains and techniques plus rescue and some medical courses before an intensive testing process to receive their certification. This is time consuming and expensive and not common in the US market but almost always required across Europe. Certified guides are technically the best of the best.

Some expeditions are led by a Westerner who does not call himself a guide but rather a leader. The leader coordinates activities, sometimes from base camp and may or may not actually climb with clients. The leader may or may not have actually summited the mountain.

Be aware that anyone can call themselves a guide in Nepal. There are many local companies with slick looking websites that offer attractive packages. Some are excellent but many are high risk. Verify everything.

There are three options for supported climbs: Sherpa supported, Sherpa guided and a western guided commercial expedition. All leverage permit fees and group costs such as deposits, cooks and tents across multiple climbers. Let’s look at them in detail:

Sherpa Supported Expedition
A Sherpa supported expedition is one where a company organizes all the logistics: food, group gear, transportation plus Sherpa support but does not provide traditional western guides or, in some case, even a lead Sherpa guide. The Sherpas may or may not speak English very well and will most likely follow your lead as to pushing forward or turning back.

These cater to experienced climbers or those on a tight budget. You can sign onto one of these climb for under $40,000 on the south side, but you need to read the fine print and strongly consider safety.

At the low end of the price range, a Sherpa will ferry your oxygen gear to the highest camps, prepare all the tents, and carry the group gear but not your personal gear. Don’t underestimate the toll of the simplest tasks at extreme altitude. One service uses a 4:1 ratio of climbers to Sherpa to give you a feel for the level of support. Also, due to the low staffing, some do not help with route fixing creating ill will with other teams.

A Sherpa will climb with you on summit night but you might be on your own with random teammates throughout the rest of the acclimatization climbing process, including preparing meals at the high camps. It is quite common to find yourself climbing only with a Sherpas or even alone. Access to modern weather forecasting technology is unlikely, you may use old style oxygen masks. It is absolutely required to ask many questions and understand every detail before signing onto these style of expeditions. Recent references are a must.

Asian Trekking specializes in this style of climb and is very good but many others are not. I climbed Everest in 2008 with High Altitude Dreams using this model.

Sherpa Guided Expedition
A Sherpa guided expedition will have an experienced Sherpa lead climbers through the route. Usually they depend on a Sirdar (a highly experienced senior Sherpa) to make the big decisions such as when to go for the summit or when to turn-around.

A variation on this approach is to hire a Personal Sherpa. These Sherpas have gained significant experience and training in dealing one to one with western clients. Their English skills are usually very good. A personal Sherpa will be at your side, literally, throughout every step of your climb including all the acclimatization climbs. You will never climb alone.

While they will not carry your gear, they may offload some items from time to time. They will be with you exclusively on your summit night even if you turn around before the summit. Expect to pay an additional $5K to $7K for a Personal Sherpa plus another 5% to 20% in tips and bonuses.

Almost every expedition except for the lowest costs ones, provide a Personal Sherpa on summit day, at an additional fee.

IMG’s Classic Everest Climb program has used this model safely for years. I summited in 2011 with my Personal Sherpa Kami Sherpa from IMG. Expect to pay around $44,000 for this style.

Western Guided Expedition
The western guided expeditions are ‘full service’ trips and are most appropriate for first time Everest climbers or anyone looking for a bit more support. The cost vary widely ranging from $55K to $85K. This includes all the services of a Sherpa guided climb plus sharing one or more western guides. If you want your own personal western guide, expect to pay $100K, plus tips and bonuses.

The major point of this approach is you are climbing in close proximity to a western guide who most likely has several summits of Everest under his/her harness. There is no language barrier and the guide will make all the decisions as to turn around times, weather and manage emergencies.

In addition, with a western guide, you will receive coaching and encouragement but this varies widely amongst the multiple personalities of the guides. A major component of the price difference is that you are paying for this incremental attention and guidance.

On these higher-end expeditions, you should have a high quality of food ranging from better prepared to exotic. One service likes to promote their sushi, another their 5 Star chef. Then there are espresso machines, open bars – in other words the sky’s the limit, all at a cost.

The most expensive guide companies (Adventure Consultants, AAI, etc) almost always come with several western guides and you never climb alone. I climbed Everest in 2002 and 2003 with Adventure Consultants using this model.

Team Size
One area to understand is the size of the team.

The highest price companies, that most often have small teams with western guides, will promote that they offer the benefit of personal attention, camaraderie, teamwork and support. They suggest the large teams are impersonal, and crowded.

My observation is that some small guided teams will try to climb as one group to support the teamwork and leverage the support staff which is good. However, the disadvantage of this is that if you are not feeling 100% you may feel the pressure to go anyway. Sometimes, you can lag a rotation behind, but it is discouraged.

The large teams almost never climb as one huge group. When climbing with a Personal Sherpa, there is a natural grouping that develops with like-minded climbers climbing at their own pace in small groups thus you get the advantage of a small team but leverage the costs more widely. Rarely are you forced to climb if you are not ready. Also you can avoid those “difficult” personalities that are always part of a long expedition.

My observation on large teams is sometimes you can have the feeling of a herd with large camps, unknown faces. Some climbers might feel a bit isolated. However, there is a increased feeling that if something goes wrong, there are a lot of resources on hand.

The bottom line for me has always been what kind of experience do you want. Both large or small teams can be equally successful.

Summit Stats
As of February 2014, the final 2013 numbers on the Himalayan Database showed that 658 climbers made the summit. There were 539 from the south and 119 from the north side. 9 did not use supplemental oxygen and there were 8 confirmed deaths.

In 2014, the south side of Everest was effectively closed after the deaths of 16 mountain workers in the Khumbu Icefall. However one Chinese climber took a helicopter to Camp 2 in the Western Cwm and went on to summit with a team of 5 Sherpas. Around 125 summited from the Tibet side.

This brings the total summits to be around 7,001 by 4,142 different climbers, meaning that 2,859 climbers, mostly Sherpa, have multiple summits. The south side (Nepal) remains more popular with 4,421 summits while the north (Tibet) has 2,580 summits.

Including the tragic 2014 deaths in the Khumbu Icefall, 267 people (161 westerners and 106 Sherpas) have died on Everest from 1921 to 2014, 159 on the Nepal side and 108 from Tibet. Since 1990, the deaths as a percentage of summits have dropped to 3.6% due to better gear, weather forecasting and more people climbing with commercial operations.

Annapurna is the deadliest 8000 meter mountain with a summit to death ratio of 2:1 deaths for every summit (109:55).

A Wide Price Range
So, what is the difference between an Everest expedition for $40K and one for $65K? Often it is simply profit, overhead, number of guides and team size. Also how many services are bundled into one single price versus offered as options. The lowest price outfits promote a low price and then offer “options” such as oxygen, Sherpa support or even food above base camp.

Another common practice to keep expedition costs low is to pay support staff the absolute minimum whereas the best guide companies pay a livable wage for their entire team. It is critical to fully understand what you are getting into. But often it is the availability of resources: extra Sherpas, back up supplies (ropes, tents, oxygen bottles, etc), medical facilities, communications and profit and overhead for the operator. But this is difficult to compare.

An example are Sherpas bonuses. A low price service may not include a bonus whereas another may. For example, one company asks the climber to pay $1,500 to his Sherpa if they reach the South Col and another $500 if they leave for the summit. This is not shown as part of the base price. But a different company includes these bonuses in their overall package. In both cases it is customary to tip your Sherpa, and western guide, an additional amount.

Comparison Shopping
With all this as background, I used public websites and my own research to compile the 2015 Everest fees from the major Everest guide companies. Also I looked back at their 2013 summit rates and historical numbers where available. This is not a complete list of all guides and I did not look at small one person operations or those who do not run climbs each year for more than one or two clients.

Representative Everest 2015 List Prices and 2013 Summit Rates
COMPANY Typical Team Size SOUTH w Sherpa Guide* SOUTH w Western Guide*
NORTH 2013 Summit Success
AlpenGlow 2-4 N/A N/A $79,000 2013: 1 of 2 clients, 1 guide, 4 Sherpas
Adventure Consultants 8-12 N/A $65,000 N/A 2013: 7 of 10 clients, 5 guides, 21 Sherpas257 total summits (clients, Sherpas, guides) since 1990
Alpine Ascents International 8-16 N/A $65,000 N/A 2013: 13 of 16 clients, 3 guides, 21 Sherpas.264 total summits (clients, Sherpas, guides) since 1992. 75% success from 2004
Benegas Brothers 9-12 N/A $65,000 N/A no information available
Jagged Globe 8-12 N/A $58,000 N/A 2013: 10 of 10 clients, 3 guides, 11 Sherpas
Mountain Trip 4-8 N/A $59,900 N/A 2013: 1 of 4 clients, 0 guide, 4 Sherpas
Mountain Madness 4-8 N/A $64,000 N/A no information available
Himalayan Experience 20-30 N/A $65,000 $64,000 2013: 12 of 12 clients summited, 2 of 2 guides, 12 Sherpas364 total summits (clients, Sherpas, guides) since 1994, 0 – 96% success
RMI 4-10 N/A $66,000 N/A 2013: 0 of 3 clients, 2 guides, 3 Sherpas
International Mountain Guides 12-20 $44,000 $59,000 N/A 2013: 16 of 31 clients, 4 guides, 24 Sherpas (2 pushes) est.381 total summits (clients, Sherpas, guides) since 1991. 66% from 2006
Kobler & Partner 8 N/A $52,400 N/A no information available
Peak Freaks 8-15 $39,000
(invitation only) $49,000+ N/A 2013: 4 of 8 clients, 2 guides, 8 Sherpas.
7 Summits Club 20 N/A $50,500 $55,740 2013: 9 of 13 clients, 1 guide, 9 Sherpas
Altitude Junkies 8-12 $45,000 N/A N/A 2013 (n): 3 of 9 clients, 1 leader, 7 Sherpas
Summit Climb 5-20 N/A $36,450 $28,450 2013: 12 of 12 South and 11 of 14 clients north213 total summits both n and s (clients, Sherpas, guides)
Adventure Peaks 10-20 N/A 2013: 4 of 8
Asian Trekking 20 $39,000 est N/A $29,070 est
2013 (s):14 of 26 clients, 21 Sherpas

2013 (n): 5 of 5 clients, 4 Sherpas

310 total summits (clients, Sherpas) since 2003.

Tim Mosedale 4-6 $45,000 N/A
2013 4 of 6 clients, 1 Guide, 8 Sherpas

Arnold Coster 5 N/A $32,500 N/A
N/A = not offered, * full logistics support, gear, food, Personal Sherpa, oxygen, mask and regulator

Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

ridiculous ....

The Fool on the Hill... "Now serving number 683"

Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

$70,000 for a team of 7 or $10,000 per climber

$10,000 each or special price for team of 7 !

Wouldn't it be better to shit and not bury it? Let the turd freeze up and blow away.

My shit ain't on there, it's in the Ganges down below, so have I been worshipping the river God of the Ganges by being dunked into the river, Batism Paki style, nobody told Me about the turds desecrating the holy mountain for big money.
About time they where sent some real monks, from your village.

Mother nature will sort this insipid pestilence that is the human race real soon.

She knows with our nukes and shit we will sort our own downfall shortly.

We are a blight on planet Earth.

I only hope that when we are rid, there is still a place for decent animals to live in peace.

We are scum

Originally Posted by Looper

Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

$70,000 for a team of 7 or $10,000 per climber

$10,000 each or special price for team of 7 !

It is now a flat $11,000 per climber instead of $70,000 for a team of 7 - not much of a discount when you consider the other costs involved.

Well that's a bargain, try living on less than that in Siam.

Thanks Farang.

Originally Posted by pompeysbroke

We are scum

are you Chinese?

It's about time we built decent bogs up there, like they have on Snowden.

In fact, put in a railway to save all those silly bastards walking up it.

A real wilderness adventure. Follow a hoard of idiots in designer clothes up a high hill covered in shit. Excellent. Where do I sign up?

Just get a helicopter to the top.

Originally Posted by Looper

Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

$70,000 for a team of 7 or $10,000 per climber

$10,000 each or special price for team of 7 !

Charge them $10,500 each and buy a few chemical toilets. But the source of the problem says more about Nepalese toilet practice than it does about the tourists themselves.

They should place a premium on every climber, that money could be used to pay locals to carry all the shit cans and other assorted discarded climbing equipment from the mountain.

Provide jobs for the locals, form a dedicated trash carrying team.

I took an organised trip in the Himialayas some years ago, and a toilet tent was erected in camp. The bottom of the tent wasn't secured properly and whiplashed in the wind as I was shitting, flicking the diarrhoea all over the inside of the tent.

My travelling companion and I later sued the travel company for running a shabby camp, citing the dirty toilet and won quite a lot of money.

Their defence was, 'but it was you that soiled it'.

Old Ed would crap him self to see what the mountain he loved had come to.

Haven't the sherpas proposed separate toilets for foreigners yet?

Originally Posted by Hans Mann

Haven't the sherpas proposed separate toilets for foreigners yet?

Yes, but China is a long walk away.

Originally Posted by thaimeme

Thanks Farang.

https://teakdoor.com/the-teakdoor-lou...est-climb.html (Thai everest climb)