Thread: AirAsia Flight From Surabaya to Singapore Loses Contact

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Originally Posted by pseudolus

escape shoots had been deployed.

And you know this how?

I presume he is making a huge jump from the fact that part of an escape chute was found in the floating debris near one of the bodies...debris which included the life jacket mentioned above.

They have not found a lot of debris so the captain has most likely succeeded an emergency landing on water. They have found an emergency exit door but no other aircraft body parts.
It looks like a few passengers has managed to evacuate the plane but they and the plane were then taken by big waves.

The co pilot may have been French, but not as any Indonesian would recognise.



Put a Frenchman (self opinionated, sense of entitlement, chip on his shoulder coz I'z black and presumably couldn't get a proper airline job in Europe) into a cockpit with an Indonesian captian (ex fighter pilot, miltary discipline, no questioning of orders) and it might make for an interesting personal dynamic.

If they find the flight recorders we will find out.

JAKARTA/PANGKALAN BUN, Indonesia (Reuters) - Indonesia search and rescue teams hunting for the wreck of an AirAsia passenger jet have located two "big objects" in the Java Sea, agency chief Fransiskus Bambang Soelistyo told reporters on Saturday.

The two objects found just before midnight on Friday are around 30 meters (90 feet) underwater and the agency is attempting to get images using remotely operated underwater vehicles (ROV), Soelistyo told a news conference in Jakarta.

"We have detected two objects underwater (at) 30 meters depth," said Soelistyo. "At this moment we are operating the ROV to take pictures of the objects."

The first object measures 9.4 meters by 4.8 meters by 0.4 meters (30 feet by 15 feet by 1.3 feet), while the second is 7.2 meters by 0.5 meters (24 feet by 1.6 feet), he said.

An official said 30 bodies had so far been recovered, some still strapped in their seatbelts, along with pieces of the broken-up plane, in the Indonesian-led search for Flight QZ8501 that is concentrated on 1,575 square nautical miles of the northern Java Sea.



WEATHER REPORTS
Hadi Mustofa Djuraid, a Transport Ministry official, told reporters on Friday that authorities were investigating the possibility that the pilot did not ask for a weather report from the meteorological agency at the time of take-off.

Indonesia AirAsia said in a statement that weather reports were printed in hard copy at the operations control center at all its flight hubs, including Surabaya, and taken by the pilot to the aircraft before each flight.





Indonesia's transport ministry said late on Friday it had temporarily suspended Indonesia AirAsia's Surabaya-Singapore flight because it had apparently operated the service beyond the duration of its license.

"As of Jan. 2, 2015, the license of Surabaya-Singapore (return) route to Indonesia AirAsia is temporarily frozen until after there is a result of evaluation and investigation," said spokesman Julius Adravida Barata.



https://news.yahoo.com/indonesia-wid...--finance.html

Four big objects possibly located, the largest surmised to be part of the plane's fuselage.

The papers are saying now that the plane should not have been in the air , it had no flight plan how is that posable .

^ Technicality based on expired license that probably has no bearing whatsoever on the incident, but does serve to illustrate the lackadaisical manner in which these SEA airlines are operated.

While I do think Malaysia Air Asia is a properly administered to airline, no way in hell would I board any Thai or Indonesia subsidiary. US NTSB has made it clear, the aviation authorities in both countries simply do not regulate the airlines properly.

Apparently Air Asia's slots were reduced and it had not been allocated a slot for that day.
Still got permission to take off.
Must have know it would be permitted to land.

Insurance company will not be paying out for an illegal flight ?

Some snippets;

"The flight document provided by the BMKG office shows fairly worrying weather conditions for the aircraft at cruising level on the chosen route,"

Divers searching for the wreckage of the crash AirAsia passenger jet may be no nearer to finding its crucial black box flight recorders, officials say, even if they have located the body of the plane using sonar.

Soelistyo said none of the ships searching the area have detected any “pings” – locator signals sent out by black boxes in the event of a crash.


Air Force Lt Col Johnson Supriyadi, a search and rescue official co-ordinating the operation, said it now looked like the boxes, located in the tail of the plane, had
broken away from the rest of the wreckage.

AirAsia flight QZ8501: Crucial black boxes may not be found with wreckage after plane 'split or cracked' during crash - Asia - World - The Independent

How are those heavy black boxes gonna "disappear"?

Sounds odd to me.

LEAKED documents have revealed AirAsia Indonesia may have left the pilots of Flight QZ8501 flying blind without a required weather report before takeoff.

The Jakarta Post reports that in a leaked document that was originally sent by the Meteorology, Climatology and Geophysics Agency (BMKG) to Transportation Minister Ignatius Jonan, an AirAsia flight operations officer received the required weather report only after the plane lost contact with Jakarta air traffic control at 6.17am.

The plane had already departed from Surabaya’s Juanda International Airport at 5.35am.

Former National Transportation Safety Committee (KNKT) investigator Ruth Hanna Simatupang said that pilots were required to obtain weather reports from the BMKG at least 10 minutes before takeoff, the Strait Times reports.

“According to standard procedures, every time pilots chart flight plans, they must consider [BMKG] weather reports,” she said. “So how could the plane fly without a weather report from the agency?”

She said one factor might be the early-morning departure.
“The flight departed really early in the morning and the crew had to get ready at least 2.5 hours before that because it was an international flight.”
Indonesia has pledged to investigate other flight violations by AirAsia, saying the aircraft had been flying on an unauthorised schedule when it crashed. The airline has now been suspended from flying the Surabaya-Singapore route.
\
But the Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore said it had granted permission for the airline’s Sunday flight.
It was unclear how the airline, a unit of Malaysia-based AirAsia, had been able to fly without the necessary authorisation from its starting point.

The Wall Street Journal reports that Indonesian transport authorities are suspending aviation officials and saying airlines will be forced to comply with more stringent pre-departure regulations and require pilots to undergo direct weather briefings with dispatchers.
Djoko Murjatmodjo, the Transportation Ministry’s acting director-general of civil aviation, said that the ministry has issued a circular requiring airlines to directly brief their pilots on weather before departure and that an official rule will follow. The circular was issued December 31, three days after the crash.

Mr. Murjatmodjo also said that the ministry has ordered agencies at the Surabaya airport to suspend officials from air-traffic control, the airport operator and the airport aviation office who were on duty at the time of Flight QZ8501’s crash.
The national police chief meanwhile announced that police will support the ministry’s crash investigation and look into possible violations of Indonesia’s aviation laws.

Indonesia’s transport ministry has ordered airport authorities to take action against staff who allowed Indonesia AirAsia to fly outside its approved schedule, The Straits Times reports.

“We issued orders to them to move these staff from a position related to flight operations,” Djoko Murjatmodjo, acting director-general of air transportation, said.

If there staff from the transport ministry were also involved, he said that action will be taken against them too.
“Investigation is ongoing now. We won’t apply a double standard stance. We wont discriminate.”

This comes after the ministry said the airline was not allowed to fly the Surabaya-Singapore route on Sunday.
AirAsia Flight 8501: Crash search reveals fifth ?large object? on ocean floor

Indonesia says crashed AirAsia plane tail found | Bangkok Post: news

JAKARTA - Recovery teams have found the tail of the crashed AirAsia Flight 8501 in the Java Sea, the Indonesian search chief said Wednesday, the eleventh day of relief operations.
Indonesia air force soldiers ride in a Super Puma helicopter during a search operation for AirAsia flight QZ8501 over the Java sea on January 7, 2015

"We have successfully obtained part of the plane that has been our target. The tail portion has been confirmed found," search and rescue agency chief Bambang Soelistyo told reporters in Jakarta.


The discovery on the seabed could mark a breakthrough in the search as the tail of a plane usually houses the "black box" flight data recorders, crucial to determining the cause of a crash.
The plane vanished from radar screens during a storm on December 28 when it was flying from the city of Surabaya to Singapore with 162 people on board, most of them Indonesian.
Despite a huge recovery operation assisted by various countries, progress has been patchy with poor weather conditions hampering the search. So far 39 bodies have been found, all of them floating on the sea.


Search chiefs earlier said five large parts of the plane had been detected but had not confirmed which parts of the aircraft.


Indonesia alleges the plane was flying on an unauthorised schedule when it crashed and AirAsia has since been suspended from flying the Surabaya-Singapore route.

Note the headline has the reader led to believe the engines where damaged from ice when actually what is said by some meteriologist is ice might have been a factor. The MAY HAVE damaged engine part is also pure conjecture on part of the er weather, ... er, meterologist. Note ;
is just one of the possibilities.

Green gremlins could have also played a role. Good grief..

I'm betting ice all right, ice in the pitot tubes, causing yet another Airbus fly by wire mass fatality.
Bet Thales, the maker of the tubes is spreading cash far and wide to news sources to put out this crap.

Ice may have caused AirAsia crash | Bangkok Post: news

Weather was the "triggering factor" in the fatal crash of AirAsia Flight 8501 a week ago, with icing likely causing engine damage, according to Indonesia's meteorological agency.
An Indonesian Navy seaboat (R) picks up items retrieved from the Republic of Singapore Navy vessel RSS Valour in this handout photo provided by Singapore's Ministry of Defence, released to Reuters January 4, 2015. Search vessels and aircraft prepared to hunt for more bodies and debris of AirAsia flight QZ8501 on Sunday, which crashed into the sea a week ago. So far 30 bodies have been recovered and search officials said four large objects which are likely parts of the plane have been located on the sea bed.

The Airbus A320-200 crashed during a storm en route from Indonesia's second city Surabaya to Singapore, and relief workers are hunting for flight data recorders to determine the cause of the crash.


But an initial report on the website of BMKG, Indonesia's meteorological agency, suggests the weather at the time the plane went down sparked the disaster after it appeared to fly into storm clouds.
"Based on the available data received on the location of the aircraft's last contact, the weather was the triggering factor behind the accident," said the report.
"The most probable weather phenomenon was icing which can cause engine damage due to a cooling process. This is just one of the possibilities that occurred based on the analysis of existing meteorological data," it said.
Before take-off, the pilot of Flight 8501 had asked for permission to fly at a higher altitude to avoid the storm, but the request was not approved due to other planes above him on the popular route, according to AirNav, Indonesia's air traffic control.
In his last communication, Captain Iriyanto, an experienced former air force pilot, said he wanted to change course to avoid the menacing storm system. Then all contact was lost, about 40 minutes after the plane had taken off.
Major parts of the Airbus A320-200 were found in the sea off the island of Borneo late Friday and Saturday, raising hopes that the remaining bodies and the crucial "black box" recorders would soon be located. So far 30 bodies have been found.
High seas throughout the week have hampered the relief process, a huge operation assisted by several countries including the United States and Russia, but divers were preparing to go down to the wreckage Sunday as the weather cleared.
"The waves are calmer, only one to two metres (three to seven feet) high," search and rescue official S.B Supriyadi told AFP, adding that 95 divers were on standby on various ships.
"We'll be concentrating on the underwater search, hopefully we'll be able to evacuate more bodies. We want to speed up the evacuation of bodies which might be stuck inside the plane's body," he said.
He said they would be using sonar equipment in their underwater searches, while aircraft would continue to scour the sea and coastline.
Indonesia has pledged to investigate flight violations by AirAsia, saying the ill-fated aircraft had been flying on an unauthorised schedule when it crashed. The airline has now been suspended from flying the Surabaya-Singapore route.
The transport ministry said AirAsia Indonesia had not been permitted to fly the route on Sundays and had not asked to change its schedule, but the Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore said it had granted permission for the airline's Sunday flight.
It was unclear how the airline, a unit of Malaysia-based AirAsia, had been able to fly without the necessary authorisation from its starting point.
The company has declined to comment until the probe is complete, but said it would "fully cooperate" with the government.
Of the 162 passengers and crew on board, 155 were Indonesian, with three South Koreans, one Singaporean, one Malaysian, one Briton and a Frenchman -- co-pilot Remi Plesel.

Search authorities confirmed that a signal was detected in the tail, but divers could not re-detect that signal, Singapore’s Channel News Asia reported.

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/tail-c...nd-java-sea-2/

Indonesian divers have retrieved the flight data recorder of crashed AirAsia Flight QZ8501, say officials.

The head of Indonesia's search and rescue agency, Bambang Soelistyo, said teams were still looking for the second device, its cockpit voice recorder.

BBC News - AirAsia QZ8501: Divers recover 'black box' flight recorder

Orlov, the pitot tube blockage sends erroneous data and the controls are compromised but as I understand it the pilots of these aircraft have been well briefed on how to recognize the phenomenon and take appropriate action. Modifications have been made but I do agree there does seem some way to go to provide a permanent, reliable solution.

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Orlov, the pitot tube blockage sends erroneous data and the controls are compromised but as I understand it the pilots of these aircraft have been well briefed on how to recognize the phenomenon and take appropriate action. Modifications have been made but I do agree there does seem some way to go to provide a permanent, reliable solution.

Maybe what and see what the FDR reports before you start blaming it on anything, eh?

2nd black box has been located but not yet retrieved.

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Orlov, the pitot tube blockage sends erroneous data and the controls are compromised but as I understand it the pilots of these aircraft have been well briefed on how to recognize the phenomenon and take appropriate action. Modifications have been made but I do agree there does seem some way to go to provide a permanent, reliable solution.

Appropriate action is to kiss your ass goodbye. When the computer gets garbage in, it sends garbage out to the flight controls, pilots do not control this A/C, a computer does. The bird does not even have a simple mechanical level. Bring your own car's 50 baht glow- in- the- dark spinning compass and glue it to the yoke so you have a horizon at least.


Having said that most A320 / 330 have had the shit tubes replaced, airlines that give a shit about safety ( marginally ) over money have replaced the tubes. Has Air Asia Indonesia?

CVR now retrieved and on its way to Jakarta.

^

Great news that, soon we will know what really happened.

Originally Posted by YOrlov

Appropriate action is to kiss your ass goodbye. When the computer gets garbage in, it sends garbage out to the flight controls, pilots do not control this A/C, a computer does. The bird does not even have a simple mechanical level.

That is utter bollocks. Here's some reading for you. Now go and do your homework, you get an F-.

Airbus Flight Control Laws

I like the use of the word "bird" though. Makes it sound like you once worked in the canteen at a WWII airfield.

Originally Posted by YOrlov

If you really knew what you were talking about you'd know A 320 does not have a yoke.

What is the instrument on the left side and the right side if its not a yolk. Sure looks like a yoke to me.

Originally Posted by YOrlov

^ PPRuNe still letting wanna be amateurs clog up the forums and pick up irrelevant pilot lingo?

"Normal law" Please...

That link has nothing to do with pitot tubes freezing up and pilots faced with bad horizon info.
Which way is up is what a pilot is faced with as every single flight indicator is a computer generated graphic that goes bad with bad input.

What part is bollocks in my post please tell us ? I admit there is a glaring error, can you point it out it?

A toy compass will not give you a horizon.
The pitot tubes determine airspeed and have nothing to do with the artificial horizon working or not.
The flight controls still respond to pilot input regardless of whether the pitot tube is blocked or not.
The flight assistance given by the system can if needed be dialed down to a minimum.

They are side sticks, not yokes, and unlike in Boeings they are not joined so the pilot and co pilot can oppose each other's movement unknowingly.