7 Dangerous Days Grim Reaper Thread

[YOrlov]

The statistics for annual road deaths in Thailand speak for themselves: 25,000.

To construe from that anything other than the conclusion roads in Thailand are dangerous is to admit to imbecility.

But why should they tolerate this carnage for so long? We all know the reasons why the death toll is so high but why do the Thai not address them?

Their lack of social responsibility pervades their entire society and resolves to innate stupidity only indemnified by an infantile belief in their religion.

They need protection from themselves but any law falls by the wayside, quite literally, because they do not have a functioning national police force and judicial system.

Has the road kill target exceeded 200 for the week yet?

It is fatalist religious mores, based on a feudal/caste social system coupled with a tropical heritaged brain that needs not worry about a future as food is abundant.
Really the perfect storm of faults resulting in a seriously deficient culture.

[Fozzy]

Bad drivers who aren't capable of driving in countries where the road laws are any different to the way they are in their home country.

Thank goodness you're all to scared to drive at night where you could do some real harm!

[Fozzy]

No one has made any argument regarding foreigners are more, or less in danger.

Yes they have, I have. That was my very point from the start.

People like you weren't just saying the roads are more dangerous than the West, and the standard of driving is poor, a soi dog is smart enough to know that. What you were saying is it's so dangerous you can't even live there or aren't even comfortable driving at night!

My point is and always has been that it simply isn't that bad. I personally find it very easy to drive on Thai roads without getting in an accident. The fact that you and others said it "stresses" you out, just goes to prove how ill equipped you are to drive on Thai roads.

Of course it's dangerous if you're a child on a motorbike, but a farang in a car with training and the ability to adapt to the way Thai roads work? Nope. No more so than loads of other places and certainly not enough to be frightened to drive at night or need to leave the country.

[Fozzy]

There significantly more Thais who feel entitled by their wealth, status, celebrity or position, who drive irresponsibly, than those who do so in the west.
This informs the driving style and skill level of the average Thai driver. They blatantly drive in a reckless manner because they can. They cannot accept blame because of the culture of face, and can always fall back on Buddha in the event of death.
All road users will be equally affected by poor overall driving standards, lack of care and disregard for laws and safety.
Every farang tourist killed or injured by a lack of familiarity with Thai driving standards and behaviour, will be balanced by more experienced farang drivers who have adapted to local conditions and behaviour.
I well remember my ex and her one hour commute when she first passed her test in UK. As she became more confident, her commute became 40 minutes and no laws were broken to achieve this. She adapted to the conditions and behavior of others in context.
A westerner in Thailand may have a higher skill level and behave more responsibly. It will not prevent them from being overwhelmed by the lawless carnage and sense of entitlement that prevails on Thai roads.

So you honestly believe that every day I spend driving in LOS, I'm just as likely to get killed as a Thai person is? You honestly believe the stats would back that up?

A kid on a motorbike driving at night with no lights on, and a drunk old man with no license driving an old truck with bad brakes, are both just as likely to meet their maker in a traffic accident, on any given day, as I am?

I hope you're not a gambler Chas, because your understanding of probability is atrocious to say the least.

[shaggersback]

I personally hate driving or riding on phukets roads. I hate it because it is about as far from a relaxing and enjoyable drive as one can get.
Knowing the Thai road rules such as ...
I am Thai and I will flash my lights at you as I exceed the speed limit on your side of the road means " move".

I am Thai and I will pull out from the side street without looking so " be aware at every juntion"

I am Thai so I will tailgate and flash you and exceed the speed limit by an excessive and unsafe rate regardless of road conditions so "move"

I am Thai so I will run the red light and jump the green light everytime so " look and give way"

I am Thai so I will push u into the adjacent lane as I pull out from the kerb without indication so " move". Etc etc.

Yes very relaxing and makes me a far better driver knowing their habits. NOT.

[Fozzy]

makes me a far better driver knowing their habits. NOT.

But obviously it does.

If you didn't know and weren't expecting cars to pull out of side roads then it would be a matter of days before you would have an accident or a near miss. If you didn't know to look and maybe give way at lights because somebody might be jumping them, then like wise, just a matter of day before you'd be in trouble.

Why are you pretending that knowing that stuff isn't making it safer to drive on Thai roads when clearly and categorically it is?

What about all the drivers who can just deal with that stuff without getting stressed? That are always in a constant state of knowing what to expect and how to deal with it? Are you saying they don't exist? Are you and others trying to deny the existence of people that can drive better than you and don't have the same fears, and stresses you have? Do you honestly think I'm lying when I say I find dealing with Thai roads second nature, that it's not remotely stressful or challenging? Perhaps I'm trying to impress people?

Trust me, I'm far from being alone when it comes to people who don't find Thai roads challenging or worryingly dangerous.

[shaggersback]

Yes Fozzy its that simple.
I don't believe you.

[Fozzy]

^ Great way to deal with your own short comings mate. Convince yourself everyone else is as inept as you. Yeah that'll help.

Did I or did I not just highlight how inaccurate your statement, that knowing how Thai roads work doesn't make you a better driver on Thai roads was? Did I just not prove how ridiculous a statement that was? Care to back that ridiculous statement up?

[chassamui]

So you honestly believe that every day I spend driving in LOS, I'm just as likely to get killed as a Thai person is? You honestly believe the stats would back that up? A kid on a motorbike driving at night with no lights on, and a drunk old man with no license driving an old truck with bad brakes, are both just as likely to meet their maker in a traffic accident, on any given day, as I am? I hope you're not a gambler Chas, because your understanding of probability is atrocious to say the least. Fozzy is offline Add to Fozzy's Reputation Report Post

You are equally at the mercy of that kid on the bike, or the old drunken truck driver, or the blind soi dog or the entitled hiso Porsche/Merdedes/Ferrari driver, unrestrained child in the road. Unless you are superhuman and can avoid the blatant stupidity of all classes of driver in this country.
Today I was overtaken by a truck on a 2 lane country road, just short of a blind bend where the road is so badly damaged on one side that it is only passable by using the oncoming lane. The four police officers in that truck forced me to stop by overtaking at the point where the left hand lane becomes impossible to navigate. They cut in just after the overtake to avoid an oncoming car, and forced him to use the overgrown hard shoulder to avoid a collision. Avoiding a collision, irrespective of blame is the basis for all driving laws in Thailand.
I caught up with the police truck 400 metres further on. The officers were sat at a roadside eatery ordering lunch.
I drive with considerably more care and greater concentration here, than any other country I have visited. My driving style and caution is based on 6 years here full time. I have driven in North and North east, the resort areas and the far South on a combination of all types of road. If you believe you are invulnerable to the whims of Thai driving and road conditions, then you are riding for a big fall.
I avoid driving at night because the effort and concentration levels required mean it is just not worth it.

[Fozzy]

^ How many accidents have you had in those six years Chas?

The only fear I have is killing a motorbike rider through no fault of my own, and the potential financial/criminal complications that can lead to if you don't have the right insurances in place.

Other than that, although I have only spent approximately half the time on Thai roads as you have, no problems what so ever. See mad, crazy, dangerous driving every day, but feel threatened by it or feel that I'm in any imminent danger? Not in the slightest.

Would I ever put my son in a car on a road where I thought his life was in any serious danger? Of course I wouldn't.

[Fozzy]

I hope you're not a gambler Chas, because your understanding of probability is atrocious to say the least.

Can you at least understand the probability side of it Chas? How can I be as likely to die as the terrible, reckless, drunk Thai driver?

For me to die, I need to be near him at the very moment he has his accident. He will ALWAYS be there at the very moment he has his accident. He is thousands more times likely to kill himself than he is to kill himself and me at the same time. That's a fact.

How many people have died while driving a car after hitting a motorbike? Next to none. So how is the road as dangerous for me as it is for a bike rider?

How many farang do you know who have died in car wrecks in LOS?

[Jesus Jones]

It matters not a jot how careful you are when the sleepy coach driver rams his coach into the front of your correctly driven vehicle as he nods off and his coach crosses over the white line.

Your denial of facts, blinkered stubborness and failure to see the bleeding obvious demands nothing less than an insulting response.

Nor does it matter when a dog pelts across the road straight into my motorcycle at 100kph. Of course it can happen in the UK, but here the chances are greater as dog litter the road!

The driving standards here are beyond poor, not to mention the lack of concern towards family members, particularly children being transported in vehicles!

It's pure madness!

[chassamui]

How many farang do you know who have died in car wrecks in LOS?

Three in six years, and two of them were very close friends.

I am not comparing you with a drunken Thai driver. I am comparing all Thai drivers with all farang drivers in Thailand.

Can you at least understand the probability side of it Chas? How can I be as likely to die as the terrible, reckless, drunk Thai driver?

You could make the point that you only visit in high or low season and generally stick to well maintained roads and periods of low volume traffic in daylight. You could make the point that I now live in the least densely populated province in the country where there is very little traffic. I do however travel regularly by car to much busier places with dense traffic.
My point is none of us are immune from the appalling driving skills, arrogant behaviour, disregard for safety and routine drunkenness of Thais.
The probability is You are more likely to be hit by a Thai.

[Fozzy]

Nor does it matter when a dog pelts across the road straight into my motorcycle at 100kph.

See that's the thing, it all comes down to our own personal risk assessment. I'm an OK bike rider but I have never considered riding a bike in places like Phuket. Simply doesn't interest me, the risk far outweighs the reward IMO. Yet you consider yourself safe enough to do it. I'm assuming you don't have a death wish and you're fairly confident you're going to survive each day.

Although I do find it curious that someone who felt the roads were that dangerous would then go and ride a bike on them, knowing the farang death stats for bike riders is pretty high.

How many farang do you know who have died in car wrecks in LOS?

Three in six years, and two of them were very close friends.

Obviously I will take your word for that, but I'm sure you'll concede that puts you in a tiny minority. Of all the expats who have lived in LOS for six years, I would say you would be one of maybe a tenth of one percent of them who knew 3 people who have died in car crashes, two of which were close friends. Any of them drinking out of interest?

[taxexile]

Trust me, I'm far from being alone when it comes to people who don't find Thai roads challenging or worryingly dangerous.

indeed, there are 65,000,000 thais who completely agree with you.

your comments on this thread are now beyond ridiculous, and you are making a complete fool of yourself.

are you in thailand at the moment?

[Fozzy]

are you in thailand at the moment?

You know I'm not in Thailand right now and you know I was there 4 months ago.

Worthless comment like that along with juvenile name calling, is all you add to every thread. You're a crap driver, live with it.

[taxexile]

how do i know where you are or where you were 4 months ago. i have never met you or spoken with you.

against every known statistic, news report, bloodstained hospital gurney and smoking temple chimney, you have repeatedly and stubbornly maintained that the roads of thailand represent no danger to foreign motorists or passengers.

even thais are now starting to tear their hair out because of the shameful ignorance, stupidity, recklessness, drunkenness and idiocy of their own people when behind the wheel or handlebars of a vehicle, yet you for some strange reason known only to yourself take an opposing view.

is there anyone on this thread who would agree with a rancid jizzmop should such a person come onto this thread and maintain that thai roads are perfectly safe places for a foreigner to drive?

are you a motorist when you come for your holidays in thailand fozzy, and if so what sort of vehicle do you drive?

[taxexile]

terry thomas, great stuff.

[chassamui]

Obviously I will take your word for that, but I'm sure you'll concede that puts you in a tiny minority. Of all the expats who have lived in LOS for six years, I would say you would be one of maybe a tenth of one percent of them who knew 3 people who have died in car crashes, two of which were close friends. Any of them drinking out of interest? Fozzy is offline Add to Fozzy's Reputation Report Post Reply With Quote

I will concede no such thing.
You should organise a poll Fozzy. The two friends were local business owners in Samui and both were very popular in both farang and Thai communities on the Island. Neither of them had been drinking. Hundreds turned out for both funerals so I am quite certain that I represent a great deal more than your supposed percentage. The third death was the brother of a well known journalist. He was killed instantly when a hit and run Fuel tanker driving on the wrong side of the road at high speed hit him. It was in the early hours and his sister claims he was sober, but I cannot be sure as it was the same day when I spoke to her and she was very emotional.
Two of the deaths were on Samui and one in Nakhon Si Thamarat.

[Seekingasylum]

how do i know where you are or where you were 4 months ago. i have never met you or spoken with you.

Good Lord! Are you unwell man?

No son of Albion would ever use that preposition knowingly and with true intent.

Are things alright at home?

[taxexile]

Of all the expats who have lived in LOS for six years, I would say you would be one of maybe a tenth of one percent of them who knew 3 people who have died in car crashes,

i have been here for 8 years, and 4 people that i knew personally have died on thai roads.

1 guy, 24 years old was walking along the footpath in hat yai when he was struck from behind by a ten wheel truck that mounted the pavement and killed him and 2 thais.

1 couple, middle aged, were hit from behind by a speeding car whilst stopped at a red light, the driver was killed, his wife was seriously injured. this was in chiang mai.

the third person was a on a motorcycle, turned to avoid a dog that ran out in front of him and his front wheel went down a drain that was missing its cover. he died instantly.

the fourth was a pedestrian who was killed by a hit and run as she was crossing the road on a red light. this was in phuket. it was witnessed by her boyfriend who was also crossing the road. the driver was never found.

[Fozzy]

how do i know where you are or where you were 4 months ago. i have never met you or spoken with you.

Proof (not that any was needed) that you're nothing but a juvenile, name calling troll. It's been mentioned in my posts on this thread several times. Posts which you claim to have read and labeled "Most ridiculous "

You go on to a thread, you don't read the posts, you don't respond to specific points and questions (because you can't because you haven't read the posts) then call people pathetic names. You're nothing but a tedious troll, always have been always will be.

against every known statistic, news report, bloodstained hospital gurney and smoking temple chimney, you have repeatedly and stubbornly maintained that the roads of thailand represent no danger to foreign motorists or passengers.

But I've never said that. If you weren't such a troll and you actually read my posts you'd know that. All roads everywhere represent a danger to motorists, so why would I ever have said Thai roads, where the standard of driving is notoriously poor, didn't?

I have said they are nowhere near as dangerous as people are making out and anybody who gets "stressed" while driving on them or "avoids driving at night" is clearly a shit driver and shouldn't be driving outside the comfort zone of their home country.

I have also said that pointing out the death stats is pointless, as an 8 year old girl on a motorbike is far more likely to get killed than a farang in a SUV. So the death rates aren't relative to the level of risk farang take on a daily basis. But you've addressed none of those point because you are a troll.

are you a motorist when you come for your holidays in thailand fozzy, and if so what sort of vehicle do you drive?

Yet again the answer to that question is in this thread, the thread you haven't read but want to argue on. Troll.

[taxexile]

how do i know where you are or where you were 4 months ago. i have never met you or spoken with you.

Good Lord! Are you unwell man?

No son of Albion would ever use that preposition knowingly and with true intent.

Are things alright at home?

absolutely nothing wrong with that usage, "spoken to" implies i did all the talking, "spoken with" implies some form of conversation took place, difficult to imagine where fozzy is concerned i know, but correct in this case.

language is a fluid medium and perpetually evolving and so long as the meaning is understood there is no need to come over all precious and budleigh salterton regarding some dubious preposition abuse. you'd 'ave been sent packin' sharpish if you'd tried any of that fancy pants nonsense in yorkshire.

were you an dusty cobwebbed betweeded english teacher at a counties prep school in the fifties by any chance?

[taxexile]

I have said they are nowhere near as dangerous as people are making out

you are a tedious person.

how many people were killed on thai roads last year, and what percentage of the drivers of the vehicles were either intoxicated or fell asleep at the wheel?

how many people were killed on the roads of a civilised country of similar population last year?

thats all there is to it. do you have a thai driving licence?

[Fozzy]

Of all the expats who have lived in LOS for six years, I would say you would be one of maybe a tenth of one percent of them who knew 3 people who have died in car crashes,

i have been here for 8 years, and 4 people that i knew personally have died on thai roads.

1 guy, 24 years old was walking along the footpath in hat yai when he was struck from behind by a ten wheel truck that mounted the pavement and killed him and 2 thais.

1 couple, middle aged, were hit from behind by a speeding car whilst stopped at a red light, the driver was killed, his wife was seriously injured. this was in chiang mai.

the third person was a on a motorcycle, turned to avoid a dog that ran out in front of him and his front wheel went down a drain that was missing its cover. he died instantly.

the fourth was a pedestrian who was killed by a hit and run as she was crossing the road on a red light. this was in phuket. it was witnessed by her boyfriend who was also crossing the road. the driver was never found.

Have always said riding a motorbike in LOS is lethal and not worth the risk. Have said it on this thread. Two of the others were pedestrians and not driving a car so aren't relevant to anything on this thread. One of which was stupidly crossing the road without checking for vehicles jumping the red light. Who with any knowledge of Thailand would do that?

That just leaves ONE car accident that involved the death of someone you knew.