Coup 2014 !!!! : Military 'takes control' in Thailand

**Exit Strategy** · 26-06-2014, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by leemo

what passes as democracy in the West is for the West, not for all

I disagree. Democracy is the same for everyone. There are many democratic countries in Asia - the richest, most advanced countries here and in the world, which is not by accident.

Originally Posted by leemo

rebuild the entire abysmal Thai education system, which is designed to keep the people where their leaders believe they belong

Totally agree. And rebuilding that is not going to be easy. But not all teachers are "bad". And education here when it comes to basics is way much better than in some countries.

**rickschoppers** · 27-06-2014, 02:08 AM

Speaking of democracy, look what happened to Russia after it became more "democratic." They are now enjoying the influx of money and have all but purchased Jomtien.

**Exit Strategy** · 27-06-2014, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

what happened to Russia after it became more "democratic.

Russia did not become 'democratic'.

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

purchased Jomtien

I bloody hate that. Such a lovely place it was. Now signs in some weird russian script and russian or ukrainian or whatev gangstas killing people on the beach. How in the fck they get visas when good people have difficulties.

**rickschoppers** · 27-06-2014, 02:28 AM

History of Russia (1992–present)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Structural reform lowered the standard of living for most groups of the population. Thus, reform created powerful political opposition. Democratization opened the political channels for venting these frustrations, thus translating into votes for anti-reform candidates, especially those of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation and its allies in the parliament. Russian voters, able to vote for opposition parties in the 1990s, often rejected economic reforms and yearned for the stability and personal security of the Soviet era. These were the groups that had enjoyed the benefits of Soviet-era state-controlled wages and prices, high state spending to subsidize priority sectors of the economy, protection from competition with foreign industries, and welfare entitlement programs.
During the Yeltsin years in the 1990s, these groups were well organized, voicing their opposition to reform through strong trade unions, associations of directors of state-owned firms, and political parties in the popularly elected parliament whose primary constituencies were among those vulnerable to reform. A constant theme of Russian history in the 1990s was the conflict between economic reformers and those hostile to the new capitalism."

Sound familiar??

"Elections

Voter turnout in the first round of the polling on June 16 was 69.8%. According to returns announced on June 17, Yeltsin won 35% of the vote; Zyuganov won 32%; Aleksandr Lebed, a populist ex-general, a surprisingly high 14.5%; liberal candidate Grigory Yavlinsky 7.4%; far-right nationalist Vladimir Zhirinovsky 5.8%; and former Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev 0.5%. With no candidate securing an absolute majority, Yeltsin and Zyuganov went into a second round of voting. In the meantime, Yeltsin co-opted a large segment of the electorate by appointing Lebed to the posts of national security adviser and secretary of the Security Council.
In the end, Yeltsin's election tactics paid off. In the run-off on July 3, with a turnout of 68.9%, Yeltsin won 53.8% of the vote and Zyuganov 40.3%, with the rest (5.9%) voting "against all".[18] Moscow and Saint Petersburg (formerly Leningrad) together provided over half of the incumbent president's support, but he also did well in large cities in the Urals and in the north and northeast. Yeltsin lost to Zyuganov in Russia's southern industrial heartland. The southern stretch of the country became known as the "red belt", underscoring the resilience of the Communist Party in elections since the breakup of the Soviet Union.[19]
Although Yeltsin promised that he would abandon his unpopular neoliberal austerity policies and increase public spending to help those suffering from the pain of capitalist reforms, within a month of his election, Yeltsin issued a decree canceling almost all of these promises.
Right after the election, Yeltsin's physical health and mental stability were increasingly precarious. Many of Yeltsin's executive functions thus devolved upon a group of advisers (most of whom had close links with the oligarchs)."

"After the success of political forces close to Putin in the December 1999 parliamentary elections, Yeltsin evidentially felt confident enough in Putin that he resigned from the presidency on December 31, six months before his term was due to expire. This made Putin acting president and gave Putin ample opportunity to position himself as frontrunner for the Russian presidential election held on March 26, 2000, which he won. The Chechen War figured prominently in the campaign. In February 2000, Russian troops entered Grozny, the Chechen capital, and a week before the election, Putin flew to Chechnya on a fighter jet, claiming victory."

I guess when I see the word democratization and see elections being held within a country, I can only assume it can be considered a democracy.

Your definition may be much different than mine, but if it smells like a democracy and walks like a democracy, it must be a democracy.

**Exit Strategy** · 27-06-2014, 03:01 AM

Yeltsin was the last good man standing, in power in Russia, despite being an alcoholic and all. Now - all they said they hated about US - corporate congress, military - has happened in Russia. SRVis very_smart, see Snowden.

**rickschoppers** · 27-06-2014, 03:17 AM

I agree with you there ES. Either way, I think the Russians are a lot better off now than they were in the 1950s-1990s.

Yes, a lot of gangs and illegal activity, but that comes with freedoms gained.

**FloridaBorn** · 27-06-2014, 04:19 AM

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

Yes, a lot of gangs and illegal activity, but that comes with freedoms gained.

Actually they've always been there, very little has changed in that aspect except now they are more personally and publicly active outside their own borders then ever before. Very much like the Chinese.

**Exit Strategy** · 27-06-2014, 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

Yes, a lot of gangs and illegal activity, but that comes with freedoms gained.

In my - as I am branded by butterfly - stupid ignorant american world, freedoms must come with law enforcement.

**rickschoppers** · 27-06-2014, 04:29 AM

^
That too.

**Sumocakewalk** · 27-06-2014, 07:19 AM

On opinion piece from The Nation today:

************************************************** ***************

The West might regret forcing Thailand into a corner
Thanong Khanthong
thanong@nationgroup.com June 27, 2014

The United States and European Union have responded to the coup by announcing they will downgrade their relations with Thailand.

Individual countries that have also issued strongly worded statements against the coup include the UK, France, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. A closer look reveals that the Europeans and Americans have joined forces to apply pressure on Thailand to hold an election as quickly as possible, release all political detainees, and ensure freedom of expression. The penalty for not doing so will be the imposition of more measures to isolate Thailand from the international community.

This international pressure against Thailand is totally unjustified. Thailand has so far done nothing to harm the broad interests of the US or the EU. Business leaders representing the foreign chambers of commerce in Thailand have expressed confidence in the direction being taking to restore calm to the country.

Without the coup, political polarisation would have got worse and threatened to tear apart the fabric of the social order. The authorities continue to discover caches of war weapons and ammunition around the country, stockpiled by hard-core supporters of the previous government. These weapons were intended to be used to create violence in Bangkok by militia following what is generally known as the Khon Kaen model. Through this arrangement, the armed rebels would stage a takeover of the 20 provinces in the Northeast in defiance of the Bangkok centre. No country in the world would allow this to happen. Isn't this model similar to what the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria is trying to achieve in the war-torn nations of Iraq and Syria?

By pressuring Thailand to hold an election without first forging political reforms, the US and the EU are effectively asking that Thailand remain a divided nation. A weak and polarised Thailand could, indeed, benefit the US and EU. It would fit world powers' traditional divide-and-rule formula.

The blatant interference in our internal affairs by superpowers in the Western world is unacceptable. As a sovereign and independent nation, Thailand has every right to put its house in order in its own way. Public opinion is mostly in favour of the coup, which has effectively restored order and ended the bloodshed. Now, the Thai people are looking forward to a reform process that hopefully will lay the foundation for political, economic and social stability. All now depends on the commitment and the capability of the military regime to guide Thailand through this transition.

It is likely that US and EU relations with Thailand will deteriorate over the next three to six months. This is unfortunate. A slackening of ties would also hurt the overall standing of the Asean, with Thailand being at the core of the regional bloc. Other Asean members have so far stood idle while Thailand is bullied. If the US and EU continue to play hardball politics with Thailand, and Asean proves to be a paper tiger, Thailand might have no choice but to strengthen relations with China or Russia. The BRICS - Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa - are eager to expand their membership and should ready to welcome Thailand into the fold. If Thailand is driven into a corner, it will have no choice but to walk a new path in its international relations.

Link:
The West might regret forcing Thailand into a corner - The Nation

**Warrior** · 27-06-2014, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Sumocakewalk

On opinion piece from The Nation today:

************************************************** ***************

The West might regret forcing Thailand into a corner
Thanong Khanthong
thanong@nationgroup.com June 27, 2014

The United States and European Union have responded to the coup by announcing they will downgrade their relations with Thailand.

Individual countries that have also issued strongly worded statements against the coup include the UK, France, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. A closer look reveals that the Europeans and Americans have joined forces to apply pressure on Thailand to hold an election as quickly as possible, release all political detainees, and ensure freedom of expression. The penalty for not doing so will be the imposition of more measures to isolate Thailand from the international community.

This international pressure against Thailand is totally unjustified. Thailand has so far done nothing to harm the broad interests of the US or the EU. Business leaders representing the foreign chambers of commerce in Thailand have expressed confidence in the direction being taking to restore calm to the country.

Without the coup, political polarisation would have got worse and threatened to tear apart the fabric of the social order. The authorities continue to discover caches of war weapons and ammunition around the country, stockpiled by hard-core supporters of the previous government. These weapons were intended to be used to create violence in Bangkok by militia following what is generally known as the Khon Kaen model. Through this arrangement, the armed rebels would stage a takeover of the 20 provinces in the Northeast in defiance of the Bangkok centre. No country in the world would allow this to happen. Isn't this model similar to what the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria is trying to achieve in the war-torn nations of Iraq and Syria?

By pressuring Thailand to hold an election without first forging political reforms, the US and the EU are effectively asking that Thailand remain a divided nation. A weak and polarised Thailand could, indeed, benefit the US and EU. It would fit world powers' traditional divide-and-rule formula.

The blatant interference in our internal affairs by superpowers in the Western world is unacceptable. As a sovereign and independent nation, Thailand has every right to put its house in order in its own way. Public opinion is mostly in favour of the coup, which has effectively restored order and ended the bloodshed. Now, the Thai people are looking forward to a reform process that hopefully will lay the foundation for political, economic and social stability. All now depends on the commitment and the capability of the military regime to guide Thailand through this transition.

It is likely that US and EU relations with Thailand will deteriorate over the next three to six months. This is unfortunate. A slackening of ties would also hurt the overall standing of the Asean, with Thailand being at the core of the regional bloc. Other Asean members have so far stood idle while Thailand is bullied. If the US and EU continue to play hardball politics with Thailand, and Asean proves to be a paper tiger, Thailand might have no choice but to strengthen relations with China or Russia. The BRICS - Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa - are eager to expand their membership and should ready to welcome Thailand into the fold. If Thailand is driven into a corner, it will have no choice but to walk a new path in its international relations.

Link:
The West might regret forcing Thailand into a corner - The Nation

The backbone of this article "By pressuring Thailand to hold an election without first forging political reforms, the US and the EU are effectively asking that Thailand remain a divided nation." is just an empty phrase.

Political reforms? Which reforms? How? To achieve what exactly?

Yes, I know the answer.

To solve a divide, you talk. Accept other opinions. You give and take.

To force reforms by the elite who think they know better than the poor, less educated majority, is just stupid. And bloody arrogant. And deepening the divide.

Reforms? My ass. Good luck.

**pickel** · 27-06-2014, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Warrior

To solve a divide, you talk. Accept other opinions. You give and take.

Unfortunately, there is a certain law in Thailand that prevents the two sides from talking about the real issue. The only way reconciliation will work is if that law is taken off the books.

**Exit Strategy** · 27-06-2014, 12:17 PM

Khun Thanong is quite hardcore yellow.

**Bangyai** · 27-06-2014, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Sumocakewalk

Public opinion is mostly in favour of the coup,

I don't think that would be apparent if it were put to the vote

**leemo** · 27-06-2014, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Bangyai

Originally Posted by Sumocakewalk

Public opinion is mostly in favour of the coup,

I don't think that would be apparent if it were put to the vote

Would be, after they detain the anti-coup voters.

**thaimeme** · 27-06-2014, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

I agree with you there ES. Either way, I think the Russians are a lot better off now than they were in the 1950s-1990s.

Yes, a lot of gangs and illegal activity, but that comes with freedoms gained.

Freedoms gained.
The freedom to have become better mindless consumers that comes with a open and free democracy.

**thaimeme** · 27-06-2014, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by pickel

Originally Posted by Warrior

To solve a divide, you talk. Accept other opinions. You give and take.

Unfortunately, there is a certain law in Thailand that prevents the two sides from talking about the real issue. The only way reconciliation will work is if that law is taken off the books.

This referenced issue and subsequent associated laws that you speak of Pickel, has historically been the root cause and problematic entity that guides and hinders political and social avenues here - regardless of opposing ideologies and identities.

Until such is wiped away from the landscape, nothing will change from the destructive and obvious revolving cycles that make up Thai society.

**Exit Strategy** · 27-06-2014, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by thaimeme

Freedoms gained.
The freedom to have become better mindless consumers that comes with a open and free democracy.

Some will become "mindless consumers". Some will not. Individual choice must be respected, alternative is oppression. Free market democracy with laws enforced is the only way, for you, me, the environment and the future. There is no Elysium.

**Exit Strategy** · 28-06-2014, 02:11 AM

World News... What Mr. Hitler says

**Sumbitch** · 21-08-2014, 12:01 PM

BANGKOK (AP) — Three months after overthrowing Thailand's last elected government, this Southeast Asian nation's junta leader is stepping out of his army uniform for good — to take up the post of prime minister in a move critics say will only extend his time at the helm and consolidate the military's grip on power.
Thailand's junta-appointed legislature voted unanimously Thursday to name Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha to the post during a session in Bangkok.
There was little doubt over the outcome since Prayuth was the only candidate.
The 60-year-old leader is due to retire from the army next month and the change appears aimed in part at keeping him at the helm as the military implements sweeping political reforms.

The full article can be found at usatoday.com: Thai army ruler nominated as next prime minister

**Waid** · 21-08-2014, 12:06 PM

Predictable.

**sabang** · 21-08-2014, 12:27 PM

I wonder if he'll actually seek election one day? Once he's out of the military, he has every right to. Watch out Mark- he might be gunning for your job.

**Waid** · 21-08-2014, 01:56 PM

^ Yep - same team.

**thaimeme** · 21-08-2014, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Waid

^ Yep - same team.

Yet, some aren't connection the dots. Nor will they ever...

The same old cycles continues.....though, the rhetoric is modified

**KEVIN2008** · 21-08-2014, 07:47 PM

Imperfect democracy is something you can work at, a military dictatorship representing rich elites is not a solution.

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