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  1. #1376
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
    There is no need for binary social outcomes - a draw, a tie, or play curtailed by bad light and rain are all satisfactory compromise endings.
    This is a good point, add to that the 'people's' right to have a voice/changing society, the upcoming event and the PADites panic to control it at all costs, and you have much of the story.

    A lot of old men, distant from reality, who think they know best and refuse to back down due to the money and power their position affords them...
    Cycling should be banned!!!

  2. #1377
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    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
    You mean like the country did when the dems knew they were going to be ousted from the top seat and allowed the dams to overfill knowing that the worst of the flooding would be up country?
    The reservoirs were full because there was a drought the year before. Then a tropical storm hit with heavy rains. The reason the worst of the floods were upcountry was because the dikes were closed on the outer ring of Bangkok. The Pheu Thai party were in charge then and it was their decision. Pretty weak straw man argument you have there.

  3. #1378
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegent
    Sentimental rubbish. Thai agriculture is utterly inefficient, wasteful, unsustainable and uneconomic. This final act in a disgraceful confidence trick perpetrated by a ruthless demagogue for his own evil ends marks the beginning of the end of the industry. The expenditure on this scam has been colossal and you blithely state you haven't a clue where the money will come from to pay for this farrago? I'll tell you: it'll come from the taxpayer, it'll come from the pared down budgets for education, health and welfare, it'll come from the farang who will inevitably be exploited for their reliance on a visa regime which will demand more money in fees, it'll come from curtailed projects maintaining Thailand's dreadful infrastructure. And if that won't be enough, then the increased inflation that will inevitably feed itself into the system will increase taxation and the falling baht will inevitably fuel the increases as energy prices rise. There is no free ride for anyone in this but one thing is for sure, subsidising a section of the community which contributes a piddling 8 %'to GDP to this extent is economic stupidity on a scale as large as the scam. Paying off the farmers because they sold their votes for a pig in a poke is a crime. But who cares, just as long as some witless farang thinks they're the salt of the earth
    No doubt you would like to keep it that way as well. Keep all the improvements based around BKK. where the wealth is generated and ignore everywhere else. The problem is this entices the population to move to BKK and all but abandon the agricultural industry, leaving it to go to waste.

    A correctly managed 'agricultural revolution' that removed the dependence on subsistence farming and seasonal casual workforce together with infrastructure that improved transport/communications links to the cities in major provinces, giving them a similar function to the European market town model could increase the Country GDP year on year for the next several decades.

    Thailand has huge potential for sustainable growth. However, it relies on people that can think of the Country as a whole rather than being Bangkok-centric.

  4. #1379
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    A lot of old men, distant from reality, who think they know best and refuse to back down due to the money and power their position affords them...
    And if you were an old man sitting on a tidy family fortune accumulated over three or four generations of astute business dealings, having taking advantage of your social position, every opportunity, every loophole and every person that crossed your path and then suddenly, out of the blue comes this northern oik, this flash harry, this supposed robin hood, this new money threat to the status quo, wouldnt you act in exactly the same way as they are doing and try and preserve things. Of course you would.

    There is little social consciousness here, outside of ones family its dog eat dog.

    Preaching morality and fairness just falls on deaf ears.

  5. #1380
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    [quote=taxexile;2787061]
    its dog eat dog.

    More like a tiger eats a dog. If the dog wants to compete he's got to play a lot harder. There really are no rules as Taxexile says. The rural's side has so much more open to them since there really is no law or right and wrong. Winner takes all as always so they've got to come up with something new or they are dinner. The lion is soon to be blowing in the wind with all the rest of the dust in Asia. Maybe the rural folks don't have to resist other than to make statements to show who is doing the oppressing. It's just a short wait before nature inspires infighting among the lion's pride. All things must pass sometime. The Thais controlling the military are holding onto what inevitably just won't exist.

  6. #1381
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    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile
    There is little social consciousness here
    That is very true.

    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile
    Preaching morality and fairness just falls on deaf ears.
    But that's exactly what the Junta and PAD are doing and have been doing for years; some folks buy into it...

    On the other side, while Thaksin is just another one of them, 1) he was voted in, so he has a mandate; 2) some folks in the UDD who are looking for change outside of traditional patronage structures, do have the moral high ground. Some folks in the PAD may well also be against corruption, may be in support of fair governance and blind justice, but their ultra-royalist stance just offers more of the same old massive corruption. The junta/PAD offer no way out of the corruption, quite the opposite, they are all about reinforcing their position - hence why abhisit's and the dem's behaviour has been so damaging to Thailand's development; somebody, some group, need to actually practice what they preach (Thaksin has come closest to that for Thais, hence his support, but a new party needs to go well beyond that if Thailand is to develop). Now, the dehumanizing remarks of Thais this and Thais that which I expect from certain posters, just are out of sync with the reality of the younger Thai generation who are very different from the farmers of 30 years ago...

  7. #1382
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    Boo is a self professed idealist and very well intentioned, but most of us know that such idealistic notions are nice to think about and even talk about from time to time, but not many people over the age of 35 or so thinks that any such world will really come to pass.

    Each new generation will hold on to idealism for a while because it's a natural process to go through immediately after puberty, and is probably linked to some kind of hormone imbalance....... It takes some a bit longer than others to regain balance. Army generals and people like that would likely have found their balance quite early on in life.....idealism would tend to hamper promotion....

  8. #1383
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    Troy, subsistence farming in it's feudal, patchwork quilt form that exists today will give way to industrial farming with all its economy of scale and efficiencies. The farmers as they are now will quite literally wither on the vine of economic necessity and their communities will migrate to the towns and cities.

    It is inevitable and, eventually, as a political force their significance will be negligible.

    Progress. Whether one is for it or against it is really quite, quite irrelevant. Either way, it will happen.

  9. #1384
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegent
    The farmers as they are now will quite literally wither on the vine of economic necessity.
    Quite literally withering on the vine eh?

    Wow.

    Wouldn't wanna watch that

    Which part of their anatomy is attached to the vine?

  10. #1385
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    Jeez i have agreed with you twice now, very true even Thaksin said this a long time ago.

    Sure the next govt will push this now.

    Quote Originally Posted by thegent View Post
    Troy, subsistence farming in it's feudal, patchwork quilt form that exists today will give way to industrial farming with all its economy of scale and efficiencies. The farmers as they are now will quite literally wither on the vine of economic necessity and their communities will migrate to the towns and cities.

    It is inevitable and, eventually, as a political force their significance will be negligible.

    Progress. Whether one is for it or against it is really quite, quite irrelevant. Either way, it will happen.

  11. #1386
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegent View Post
    Troy, subsistence farming in it's feudal, patchwork quilt form that exists today will give way to industrial farming with all its economy of scale and efficiencies. The farmers as they are now will quite literally wither on the vine of economic necessity and their communities will migrate to the towns and cities.

    It is inevitable and, eventually, as a political force their significance will be negligible.

    Progress. Whether one is for it or against it is really quite, quite irrelevant. Either way, it will happen.

    There are some areas where this process appears to be well under way. Larger and larger tracts of land are being amassed by individual families. More and more mechanized farming is being introduced. The village just down the road from me has four big harvesters and several smaller ones. now. There was none at all 4-5 years ago. Every other farmer has a good sized tractor now and they are venturing into more diverse crops. Most of the area is still subsistence farming but as you say, it's days are clearly numbered because of the expansion of larger scale operations and the need for much more efficient farming methods.

  12. #1387
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    Thai military rulers appoint anti-Thaksin advisers

    Thai military rulers appoint anti-Thaksin advisers
    Pracha Hariraksapitak
    Wed May 28, 2014


    1 of 8. Demonstrators hold up signs during a protest against military rule at Victory Monument in Bangkok May 27, 2014.
    Credit: Reuters/Athit Perawongmetha

    Thailand's junta has appointed two retired generals with palace connections as advisers, putting powerful establishment figures hostile towards former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra firmly in the ascendant in the country's long-running power struggle.

    Hoping to show things are getting back to normal, the military also relaxed a night-time curfew brought in after it seized power in a May 22 coup, and is expected to speed up efforts to get the economy moving again after months of debilitating political protests.

    Data on Wednesday showed trade shrank in April and factory output fell for a 13th straight month, underscoring the damage political unrest has caused and the tough job the military government faces reviving an economy on the brink of recession.

    The Information Technology Ministry said it had blocked Facebook at the request of the military to stem protests. But the site was back up after about 30 minutes and the military denied involvement, saying a technical problem was to blame.

    The military has issued warnings about the spread of what it considers provocative material on social media.

    The junta's team of advisers includes a former defense minister, General Prawit Wongsuwan, and former army chief General Anupong Paochinda.

    The two men are towering figures in Thailand's military establishment and have close ties to coup leader General Prayuth Chan-ocha. All three are staunch monarchists and helped oust Thaksin, who remains at the heart of the political crisis, in a 2006 coup.

    A Reuters report in December revealed that Prawit and Anupong had secretly backed the anti-government protests that undermined the government of Thaksin's sister, Yingluck Shinawatra. She was removed by a court on May 7 for abuse of power and the coup ousted remaining ministers two weeks later.

    It is not clear what powers the advisers will have, but their appointment would suggest little prospect of compromise with the Shinawatras.

    SOME DETAINEES RELEASED

    The military has sought to stifle opposition to its power grab, detaining scores of politicians and activists and imposing censorship on the media.

    Deputy army spokesman Winthai Suvaree said 200 people summoned after the coup had been detained but 124 of them had since been released. Seventy-six were still being held, while another 53 people had not responded to a summons.

    Later, the army released at least 10 pro-Thaksin "red-shirt" activists including their leader, Jatuporn Prompan.

    Yingluck and Suthep Thaugsuban, a former deputy prime minister in a rival government who led six months of protests against her, are among those who have been released.

    "Those released must tell us where they live and where they plan to travel," Winthai said. "If they violate these rules they'll be invited to meet us."

    People being released are asked to sign a document saying they will not organize rallies, he said.

    There have been daily protests in Bangkok against the coup and on Wednesday about 200 people confronted troops and police at the Victory Monument. Protesters jeered and threw plastic water bottles and spray-painted "Get Out" and "No Coup" over an army Humvee.

    At least one person was detained, a Reuters reporter said.

    A seven-hour curfew the army imposed after the coup has been shortened to four hours, from midnight.

    ECONOMY IN DOLDRUMS

    The junta's new advisers also include Pridiyathorn Devakula, overseeing the economy. A former central banker, he was finance minister in an interim government after the 2006 coup, when strict capital controls were introduced to hold down the baht, causing the stock market to tumble 15 percent in one day.

    Highlighting the task ahead, factory output fell 3.9 percent in April from a year earlier, the 13th monthly drop in a row.

    The Commerce Ministry reported another slump in imports, down 14.5 percent in April from a year before as companies, unsure how the politics would develop, stopped importing machinery and consumers reined in spending.

    Exports have not been able to offset the depression in the domestic economy: they fell 0.9 percent in April, although the ministry said it was hopeful for 5 percent export growth this year.

    Gross domestic product shrank 2.1 percent in the first quarter of 2014 as the anti-government protesters harassed ministries, damaged confidence and scared off tourists.

    The military has moved quickly to tackle economic problems, notably preparing payments for hundreds of thousands of rice farmers that the ousted government was unable to make.

    Some economists think the outlook could improve under the military, with the rice payments that will allow farmers to start spending again and a vow that a new budget will be on time and new investment plans all boding well.

    NO ELECTION TIMETABLE, U.S. CONCERNED

    General Prayuth has not set any timetable for elections, saying broad reforms are needed first.

    That may further complicate relations with foreign governments that have called for a speedy return to democracy, an end to censorship and the release of politicians, protest leaders, journalists and others detained.

    "We're going to have to continue to calibrate how we'll work with the government and military when they don't show any pathway back to civilian rule," a senior U.S. official told Reuters in Washington. "We're very concerned and there will be an impact on our relationship."

    Thaksin has not commented on the coup except to say he was saddened and hoped the military would treat everyone fairly.

    The Shinawatras' strength is in the north and northeast, populous, mostly rural regions that have won them every election since 2001. Some Thaksin loyalists had vowed to resist a coup and the army and police are hunting for weapons.

    Many Bangkok voters support the establishment and approve of the coup if it means ending Thaksin's influence. They say he is corrupt and disrespectful to the monarchy, an accusation he denies.

    (Additional reporting by Amy Sawitta Lefevre, Orathai Sriring, Manunphattr Dhanananphorn in Bangkok, Andrew R.C. Marshall and Matt Spetalnick in Washington; Writing by Robert Birsel and Alan Raybould; Editing by Alex Richardson and Nick Macfie))

    reuters.com

  13. #1388
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    Army: Coup Was To Avoid Failed State Scenario (DPA)

    Army: Coup Was To Avoid Failed State Scenario (DPA)
    29 May 2014

    BANGKOK (DPA) — Thailand's military staged last week's coup to prevent the nation becoming a failed state, the army said Thursday.

    The army was forced to step in because of the worsening political situation, deputy chief of staff, Lieutenant General Chatchalerm Chalermsukh, told reporters.

    "No side could see eye to eye. We found weapons caches belonging to political groups. The army is not willing to let this nation become a failed state like Syria or Libya," Chatchalerm said.

    The general said Thailand was not in a state to survive more political turmoil.

    Thailand's economy contracted in the first quarter of 2014, something that had not happened in years.

    Exports had fallen to a two-year low and industrial output had slowed, according to reports in the Bangkok Post.

    Chatchalerm said the army was only willing to return to civilian rule when the political climate allowed such a transition.

    "We have nothing to gain from this coup. We are sacrificing ourselves for the nation. If we don't succeed, we will go to jail. Treason is punishable by death," he said.

    The army seized power last week after seven months of anti-government protests that led to violence and a political stalemate.

    Rights groups have been quick to protest the junta's detention of key dissidents and its censorship of the media, something the army says is needed to calm political tensions.

    en.khaosod.co.th

  14. #1389
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    Military Tries to Control Coup Narrative

    Military Tries to Control Coup Narrative
    29 May 2014





    BANGKOK — The Thai military is stepping up efforts to control the narrative behind the coup it staged last week by releasing propagandist videos and continuing to censor alternative histories.

    In a press conference this morning, deputy chief of staff Lt. Gen. Chatchalerm Chalermsukh told reporters that the coup was an effort to prevent Thailand from becoming “a failed state like Syria or Libya.”

    He stressed that the military takeover was not driven by self-interest.

    "We have nothing to gain from this coup," Lt. Gen. Chatchalerm said. "We are sacrificing ourselves for the nation. If we don't succeed, we will go to jail. Treason is punishable by death."

    The military also interrupted all state-owned television broadcasts this morning to air a self-promoting about how the military has already begun solving Thailand’s “deep-rooted problems.”

    The video opened with a female narrator explaining that while Thais are free to choose their own political views, deepening ideological differences in recent years have polarized Thai society and caused violence.

    “Democracy has failed to solve this problem” and it is clear that “elections will lead to losses,” the narrator said over footage of the rival protest groups that were camping out in Bangkok prior to the coup.

    The military tried to step in to resolve the dispute, but the two sides "failed to reach any agreement, forcing the military take control of power," the narrator said, followed by a clip of army chief and coup-leader Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha declaring the military takeover on national television.

    Gen. Prayuth announced the coup d’état after talks with rival political factions failed to solve the country’s decade-long political crisis in two days.

    The twenty minute video went on to praise Gen. Prayuth for his efforts to "swiftly solve" the country’s problems while refraining from invoking martial law’s harshest powers.

    Under martial law, the military is authorized to censor the media, search and detain people at will, and violate a number of other internationally-recognized human rights.

    “We try our best to avoid violating human rights,” the video showed Gen. Prayuth saying in a press conference with foreign media.

    The short film ended with shots of rice farmers receiving overdue payments for the paddies they sold to the government last year under its controversial rice-subsidy program.

    The military announced earlier this week that it would distribute billions of baht to the more than 800,000 rice farmers that are still owed money from the rice scheme. The former government failed to pay farmers on time because of internal mismanagement and crippling anti-government protests that led to the dissolution of Parliament in December.

    Thailand’s rice farmers are among the former Pheu Thai government’s strongest supporters.

    The military is actively broadcasting its version of the 2014 coup while it simultaneously clamps down on media outlets and individuals that offer different narratives.Over 200 websites have been banned since the military seized power last week, and plans for a national internet gateway are currently underway.

    In addition, hundreds of political dissidents have been summoned to report to the army, many of whom have have been detained.

    Yesterday, Facebook was made inaccessible for millions of Thais for about an hour; the army initially took responsibility for the shutdown, but later insisted it was an innocent “technical glitch.”

    en.khaosod.co.th

  15. #1390
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    Yea " Thailand Moves Forward " ................in reverse gear.

  16. #1391
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    Feels like 1962.....[through 1978]

  17. #1392
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  18. #1393
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  19. #1394
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    Quote Originally Posted by MineFalls View Post

    You can disregard everything as rubbish in this interview as the presenter (who obviously knows nothing about Thailand), says

    "A country that relies entirely on tourism"

    So he's 84%-94% wrong already.

    - obviously biased from the off.

  20. #1395
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    ^The presenter is corrected, gently but accurately.

  21. #1396
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    Coup protests in Thailand




    A protester against military rule throws a plastic garbage bin at soldiers during a scuffle at Victory Monument in Bangkok May 28, 2014.
























    An injured policeman is treated inside an ambulance during a confrontation with anti-coup protesters at the Victory monument in Bangkok May 28, 2014.



  22. #1397
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    Looks like there were at least 3 of them?

  23. #1398
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    Quote Originally Posted by pickel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
    You mean like the country did when the dems knew they were going to be ousted from the top seat and allowed the dams to overfill knowing that the worst of the flooding would be up country?
    The reservoirs were full because there was a drought the year before. Then a tropical storm hit with heavy rains. The reason the worst of the floods were upcountry was because the dikes were closed on the outer ring of Bangkok. The Pheu Thai party were in charge then and it was their decision. Pretty weak straw man argument you have there.
    No it's not a weak "straw man argument" Ant, it's what you wish to believe like all of the other hype people claim is what I or anyone else believes. You defend your position no matter how narrow scoped it is and I believe mine, you probably didn't personally go through that huge feck up though and lose property or worse endure the illnesses post flooding so may be your point of view is more skewed towards the party line..

  24. #1399
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    Any news about Suthep?...All this trouble could have been avoided if he'd been "taken out" as soon as he raised his ugly head...Then we wouldn't have to listen to the army's propaganda bs endorsed by thegent...

    Someone should ask the army why he was allowed to cause all this trouble in the first place...

  25. #1400
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    Have to wonder how in control these coup makers are? How far are they prepared to go before capitulating, or resorting to violence?

    In the 2006 coup, the coup makers were not as confident as they led everyone to believe. It could have gone wrong so many times.

    Could this coup be the one that shatters the bully's bravado - once and for all?

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