Thread: Suthep threatens to 'shut down' Bangkok afer New Year holidays

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Originally Posted by leemo

Put a gun to my head and I turn yellow

Originally Posted by leemo

Western liberal democracy may be the best form of government we know of, it's not for everyone and certainly not for Thailand, not yet, not until the people are educated to deserve the vote

Very sad... A complete lack of understanding of what democracy means...

Democracy means many things. In Thailand it means holding an election every few years, and then taking to the streets to get rid of the government, sometimes with military assistance.

Originally Posted by KimDidMeGood

Originally Posted by leemo

And of course, though Western liberal democracy may be the best form of government we know of, it's not for everyone and certainly not for Thailand, not yet, not until the people are educated to deserve the vote, which in all likelihood will be never (...)

This is total bull. Do you really believe that when western democracies instated universal suffrage in the 18th/19th centuries, a majority of voters were particularly educated?

Gosh, even now, nearly half of voters for the US Republican Party believe that Obama is not american, is a muslim or whatever.

The world has moved on since the 18th/19th centuries, though you could find evidence to support your position by going even further back to the Church conceding its monopoly on education.

If people are ignorant about critical elements of their own lives they become easier to lead and unable to decide for themselves who is best to do the honours. Most on TD are streetwise enough to see it happens even today, in the West where we like to think of ourselves as knowledgeable and sophisticated, yet the media and our glorious leaders run rings around us with distraction from real issues. But we have established systems of government, and though we can gripe that we haven't reached perfection these will not change radically in the absence of serious bloodshed.

Same same with Thailand. Without stepping over the line, Thailand enjoys more 'transparent' as in see-through rulers, while generations of the people have been content to sacrifice their individuality for the greater good; whether this is voluntary or through fear of consequences, your guess is as good as any. But the power base won't change anytime soon unless those upstairs wish it to, and it makes sense to suspect they won't willingly hand over the keys to the executive bog.

The country is a sprawl of rural communities, mostly unable to afford satellite or cable access for news and views beyond the official line which is tailored and pumped out for the unthinking masses. It is the villages that hold the key to elections, not a handful of elites in Bangkok, and though the middle classes have grown over the years, a brief chat with them will tell you that you know more about their country and its politics than they do.

Then we could move on to an abysmal, regimented Thai education system, where children are stripped of their curiosity and individuality from an early age, but nothing new there either. These may be future voters, but they will not be future leaders.

So, unless those holding the 'real power' decide to loosen up we will witness the same cycle of elections followed by civil unrest and violence for the next generation as we have over the last. Dissent is fine, and you will see none only in a totalitarian state, which Thailand doesn't even come near to. No ploplem if it upsets you, we are only observers.

Go with the flow if you want peace, but either way don't fantasise with ideals like Western-style democracy and privileges for the masses because it won't happen in your children's lifetime.

I hope Thaksin and his cronies find some lead in their ears, and the sooner the better.


Btw, Barak Hussein Obama was born to a Muslim father, given a Muslim name, adopted by a Muslim man, raised in an Islamic country and attended Islamic schools. But as you say he isn't a Muslim, so he must be an apostate. Take your pick.

^ you fail to take into account the cultural aspect of the system. This is how it has been done for ever, they are not going it change it overnight because of some silly leaders rhetoric.

not sure I agree with your Reds assumptions, I think what they mean is to have equal access to the "patronage" system, not changing it.

at the end, the foundation for change is not there yet, and might never be. Democracy in Thailand is limited to choosing a tribe to lead the others, nothing else. The only solution is not to divide but to unite, because none of those tribes have the means to change anything.

^ I don't fail to take anything into account, thanks, Paps...

It's part of the social development that all societies go through; the change is from a patronage feudal system to a proportionally representative democratic system; of course, as in France and elsewhere, the folks at the top of the patronage system don't like it... History details very well what happens to them when they resist for too long...

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

the change is from a patronage feudal system to a proportionally representative democratic system;

quite interesting a thing to say from a Brit, since you guys never left the patronage system, even though it has been modernized and pretends to be "open"

if the UK was a proportionally representative democratic system, half of your MPs would be Chavs, and the rest Nazi sympathizers and anti-european and slaves supporters.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

of course, as in France and elsewhere

it might come to a surprise, but France has a very strong patronage system in high administration offices and blue chip companies,

Originally Posted by Butterfly

if the UK was a proportionally representative democratic system, half of your MPs would be Chavs, and the rest Nazi sympathizers and anti-european and slaves supporters.

And what about France, you're far right National Front led by Marie Le Pen has a lot more support in France than the equivalent BNP in the UK which is now a largely forgotten about insignificance.

Originally Posted by buriramboy

than the equivalent BNP in the UK which is now a largely forgotten about insignificance.

indeed, my point exactly, because the UK is not a proportionally representative democratic system, it it was, BNP would dominate the UK parliament

Originally Posted by buriramboy

And what about France, you're far right National Front led by Marie Le Pen has a lot more support in France

support, but the system in France is not a proportionally representative system either, it was at one point in the 80s and that led to the rise of the FN, but because of the FN, the right conservatives changed it again so it couldn't alienate them.

It has been debated recently to put it back since it would alienate the right conservatives, and that's what the Socialists want to win elections.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Democracy in Thailand is limited to choosing a tribe to lead the others, nothing else. The only solution is not to divide but to unite, because none of those tribes have the means to change anything.

Come on, there are lots of collectivist societies that have progressive governments - look at South America - most of them are collectivist by nature, yet they've done pretty good - once they pried the CIA's jackboot off their throat.

Thai PM returns to Bangkok as protest showdown looms
Viparat Jantraprap
(Additional reporting by Wirat Buranakanokthanasan; Writing by Paul Tait; Editing by Nick Macfie)
Wed Jan 1, 2014





1 of 2. Thai police officers gather at the Royal Plaza near the Government House in Bangkok December 30, 2013.
Credit: Reuters/Chaiwat Subprasom

(Reuters) - Embattled Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra returned to the capital, Bangkok, on Wednesday for traditional New Year celebrations in a display of unity alongside military chiefs before a looming showdown with anti-government protesters.

Demonstrators who accuse Yingluck of being the puppet of her self-exiled brother, former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, have vowed to occupy government ministries and other key sites in Bangkok in their bid to scuttle a snap February 2 election.

The protests since late November have pitted the brother and sister's political machine with its base among the rural poor in the north against Bangkok's conservative elite.

It has flared into sporadic violence, and army chief General Prayuth Chan-Ocha refused to rule out a coup after wild clashes outside an election registration center a week ago. Three people have been killed since Thursday.

Yingluck, who is caretaker leader after calling the snap poll in a bid to defuse the crisis, had spent more than a week outside Bangkok shoring up support in the north but returned to the capital early on Wednesday.

She joined Prayuth and other senior military leaders in paying their respects to retired general Prem Tinsulanonda, the president of King Bhumibol Adulyadej's Privy Council. Prayuth's warning last week was a sobering reminder that the military has staged or attempted 18 coups in 81 years.

In a New Year message aired overnight, Thailand's revered King Bhumibol urged peace, prosperity and unity among Thais.

"Everyone's wishes do not seem to be very different, either for their own sake or for the peace of the country," he said.

Wednesday's largely ceremonial duties were a prelude to what are shaping as rougher days ahead for Yingluck, whose Puea Thai Party normally would be expected to win the election.

The demonstrators, led by fiery former deputy premier Suthep Thaugsuban, have vowed to derail the ballot and demand instead an appointed "people's council" before a future vote.

Suthep has vowed to seize ministries and other sites across the capital, although it is not clear when that will start. The main opposition Democrat Party has also declared it will boycott the election.

Thailand's Electoral Commission has offered to act as a mediator between Puea Thai, the Democrats and the protesters. Commissioner Somchai Srisuthiyakorn said the commission would meet senior members of Puea Thai and the Democrats on Thursday, although he said the protesters had rejected a similar offer.

"I believe that something positive will come out of the meeting and the situation will ease up," Thai media quoted Somchai as saying.

While the protests have mainly been in Bangkok, election registration has also been blocked in at least seven provinces in the south, where the protesters and Democrats draw support.

The wider aim of the protesters is to neutralize the power of Thaksin, who they say has manipulated democracy by buying the support of the rural poor with populist policies such as cheap healthcare and subsidies for rice farmers.

Thaksin was overthrown in a 2006 coup and fled into exile two years later to avoid jail for graft charges he said were politically motivated. In November, Puea Thai tried to push through an amnesty bill that would have allowed Thaksin to return a free man, sparking the latest round of protests.

reuters.com

the word democracy comes from Greek
let us remember they were slave societies

https://en-gb.facebook.com/photo.php...type=3&theater

^

Quite simple, really, the Dems want to replace the current government, and they intend to scuttle the Feb election.

Iow, they want to govern the country, one imagines democratically since they call themselves Democrats, but without an election.

Nothing wrong with that if you can get away with it.

Suthep sets January 13 as a mass rally
January 1, 2014

Rally leader Suthep Thaugsuban on Wednesday invited opponents of Yingluck government and Thaksin Regime to take to the streets on January 13 to "close down" the capital.

The mass rally he said will start at 9am and a total of 20 stages will be set up at intersections in Bangkok.

"The overture will start on January 5 when I will lead march to many places in Bangkok like I previously did," he said.

Protesters should prepare and plan their travel from their provinces from now on, he said at Rajadamnoen rally site.

nationmultimedia.com

So I take it nobody could be arsed to do it today then?

PM calls for army to help quell protest
Published: 2 Jan 2014

Caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has asked the military to help police enforce law and order if protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban carries out his threat to "shut down" Bangkok.

A Defence Ministry source said the prime minister is worried by the People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC)'s threat and wants the military to intervene.

"It seems the country is in a state of lawlessness. People can do what they want," the source quoted Ms Yingluck as telling the armed forces leaders at a meeting on Wednesday.

Army Commander Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha appeared uneasy about using soldiers to help police, the source said. The army was heavily criticised over its role in the 2010 political violence.


*****

PDRC spokesman, Akanat Promphan, yesterday denied a rumour the Bangkok shutdown includes a plan to cripple public transport with BTS, bus and airport seizures.

About time, too. Call them out.

That's like the famous question Lady Astor asked JP Morgan- "Is the stock market going up, or down?"

Both madam, both.

^indeed. If the army refuses, as I think they will (or they take the opportunity to put their coup plans in place) then it'll reinforce the thoughts of many that the PAD/dems/army/judiciary/'elites' are the same group working in the same way they've done for the last decade.

I suspect that they'd prefer to block the election registration via the EC and constitution court then ban PT by the recent(ish) amnesty vote.

If the army actually do their job and act, not with snipers and live-fire zones, but to support the police to uphold the law, that'd be quite a shock. I'm hopeful, but just can't see it happening... Of course, refusal by the generals is treason.

It's rather sinister that facebook vid
Started off so well too


I doubt there will be a happy ending

Originally Posted by Mid

Suthep sets January 13 as a mass rally

the fcukers will be bored by then and well pickled - the somchais are not going to be keen