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  1. #1726
    Member Bettyboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
    The one-nan-one-vote thing is gone in Thailand, as present circumstances illustrate.
    This is simply not true.

    The law is clear. That a minority group want to change that law to give themselves more power is also clear.

  2. #1727
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    Have deliberately avoided this thread for a while as it seemed to be going nowhere.
    Came back today to have another look and guess what: Same shit different day.
    Let's have the courts toss the last election out and ALL parties run with policies that put an end to the current bullshit that is Thai politics.

  3. #1728
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
    The one-nan-one-vote thing is gone in Thailand, as present circumstances illustrate.
    This is simply not true.

    The law is clear. That a minority group want to change that law to give themselves more power is also clear.
    You can repeat 18,800 times that Thailand's democracy is strong, flourishing and unbreakable.

    To outsiders - it certainly doesn't look that way !

  4. #1729
    Member Bettyboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
    You can repeat 18,800 times that Thailand's democracy is strong, flourishing and unbreakable.
    I simply did not ever say or imply that.

    You said: "The one-nan-one-vote thing is gone in Thailand, as present circumstances illustrate."

    I simply said this is not correct.

  5. #1730
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    Quote Originally Posted by bangkokpost.com

    Assault case puts spotlight on PDRC
    6/03/2014

    The recent assault case where a man was allegedly beaten and thrown into the Bang Pakong River has brought the actions of People’s Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) guards under fire.

    snip

    PCAD Activist Wanted For 'Attempted Murder' Of Redshirt
    7 March

    The court has approved arrest warrant on a core leader of the anti-government movement for his alleged attempt to torture and murder a pro-government supporter.

    The move came after a security guard of an autoparts company named Mr. Yuem Nilla was found with his feet and hands bound together in Bang Pakong River.

    Mr. Yuem later said he was detained and tortured by a group of anti-government protest "guards" in Lumpini Park after they searched him and uncovered a membership card of the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD).

    According to Mr. Yuem, after several days of detention, the guards tied his feet and hands, and dumped him to die in Bang Pakong River in Chachoengsao province, just east of Bangkok, but a group of locals narrowly saved him from drowning.

    Mr. Yuem identified Mr. Issara Somchai, a core leader of the People's Committee for Absolute Democracy With the King As Head of State (PCAD), as the man who ordered his torture and his subsequent execution.

    Today, Chachoengsao Provincial Court has approved arrest warrants of Mr. Issara and 5 other "guards" under his command on 5 charges, including attempted premeditated murder, unlawful detention leading to grievous harms, and physical assaults.

    Pol.Col. Kiattisak Srathong-On, a commander of police in Chachoengsao province, said the officers are working to identify Mr. Issara's accomplices by CCTV footage and other evidences to prosecute the suspects.

    Meanwhile, Pol.Col. Sirikul Srisanga, spokeswoman of the Police Hospital, where Mr. Yuem is currently admitted, told our correspondent that the victim still needs to breath through tube in his lung, as the organ has been damaged in the alleged torture.

    "He is occasionally exhausted, and he is hurt when he moves himself on the bed," Pol.Col. Sirikul said.

    en.khaosod.co.th

  6. #1731
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mid
    Mr. Issara Somchai
    |The |Popcorn |Supplier



    |"|French foreign legion|"

  7. #1732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
    The one-nan-one-vote thing is gone in Thailand, as present circumstances illustrate.
    This is simply not true.

    The law is clear.
    But how can you have "democracy" in a country where NO ONE respects the laws, the courts, and the constitution?

    Have you forgotten what "set off" this latest round of anti-government protests?

    BBC News - Thailand Constitutional Court rejects Senate amendments

  8. #1733
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    Quote Originally Posted by terry57 View Post

    Firstly he issued an order to off all the drug dealers that the police came across in their work. Killed a shit load of them.

    Some people didn't like that and complained that Thaksin was a cold blooded murderer. Myself thought it was the correct course of action as it removed a heap of scum from the streets and put the word out that you will be offed if caught peddling YA-Ba and assorted nasty stuff.

    Ive talked to a few Thai people about it and these people I talked to considered it a brilliant move as it had effect. Normal people had no fear concerning Thaksins actions. Only the drug dealing scum where effected.

    Terry, buddy, are you saying that gunning down nearly 3000 people in cold blood, without even giving them a chance to defend themselves in court is acceptable?

    Do you believe that people are innocent until proven guilty?

    Are you aware that the 2,873 people murdered during Thaksin's 3 month "War on Drugs" included entire families, women, children and seniors? And that by some estimates at least half those killed were completely innocent?

    Thaksin's "War on drugs" was a chance to settle scores. Open season on enemies of the ruling party. All you had to do was ACCUSE someone of being a druggie and the police would go and shoot them down for you.

    When the dust settled and the bodies were carted away the government's own narcotics control board concluded that more than half the victims had no involvement in drugs.

    Now imagine for a second if old square head returns to Thailand some day. You know he has scores to settle. How many of his enemies do you think will die in Thaksin's next "war on drugs"?

    Would you like to know more? A chronology of Thailand's "war on drugs"

  9. #1734
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    Quote Originally Posted by noelbino View Post

    Have deliberately avoided this thread for a while as it seemed to be going nowhere.
    A bit like the protests then.

    I also have been a bit busy so might have missed something.

    The word ' padtiroob ' ( reform ) has been flogged to within an inch of it's life by the protesters but so far as I know , no substance or clarification has been given to this battle cry that I know of ? ( apart from ' Yingluk og py ' )

    It has been a few months now so surely someone from the protesters should by now have put pen to paper and suggested what kind of new laws and legistlation they had in mind ? Even the PAD managed to do this much.

    I see people foaming at the mouth demanding reform but they can't seem to vocalise an answer to this issue that they apparently feel so strongly about ?

    Even :

    ' Henceforth, people with squarish craniums are banned from politics '

    would at least overcome the inertia and give the population something concrete to mull over.

    How naive is it to expect that any new legistlation will put an end to corruption which is the sole raison d'etre of 90% of the worlds politicians ?

    This government has made a pigs ear of things but it was fairly elected. Once you go down the road of caving in to every disgruntled group that throws a hissy fit because it won't accept the fact that it lost, then it's worth remembering that the next disgruntled mob is only a protest away.

    It's easy to say ' Thais don't deserve democracy ' or they ' don't understand it ' but what would you have them do ? In fact, the Thai people right now are more
    politicsed than they have ever been in the 30 years I have been here. Now that they have the internet, even in rural areas, many people have a greater understanding of what is happening then has ever been the case before.

    Suthep and the Democrats just don't get this although the coin is begining to drop with the military.

    A democraticaly elected government is just that and nothing more. It may have many warts and faults but that is just tough shit. You abide by the rules or trash democracy altogether. How would it be if after an Obama or Cameron is elected, the loser won't accept defeat but sets out to overthrow the election for no better reason than they are excluded from the opportunity of enriching themselves?

    Come to think of it....if that's the way to go, might as well give up sports as well.

  10. #1735
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    Bangyai good post

  11. #1736
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    approved the arrest warrant means nothing, the guy is protected the guards may well get a slap on the wrist


    Quote Originally Posted by Mid View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bangkokpost.com

    Assault case puts spotlight on PDRC
    6/03/2014

    The recent assault case where a man was allegedly beaten and thrown into the Bang Pakong River has brought the actions of People’s Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) guards under fire.

    snip

    PCAD Activist Wanted For 'Attempted Murder' Of Redshirt
    7 March

    The court has approved arrest warrant on a core leader of the anti-government movement for his alleged attempt to torture and murder a pro-government supporter.

    The move came after a security guard of an autoparts company named Mr. Yuem Nilla was found with his feet and hands bound together in Bang Pakong River.

    Mr. Yuem later said he was detained and tortured by a group of anti-government protest "guards" in Lumpini Park after they searched him and uncovered a membership card of the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD).

    According to Mr. Yuem, after several days of detention, the guards tied his feet and hands, and dumped him to die in Bang Pakong River in Chachoengsao province, just east of Bangkok, but a group of locals narrowly saved him from drowning.

    Mr. Yuem identified Mr. Issara Somchai, a core leader of the People's Committee for Absolute Democracy With the King As Head of State (PCAD), as the man who ordered his torture and his subsequent execution.

    Today, Chachoengsao Provincial Court has approved arrest warrants of Mr. Issara and 5 other "guards" under his command on 5 charges, including attempted premeditated murder, unlawful detention leading to grievous harms, and physical assaults.

    Pol.Col. Kiattisak Srathong-On, a commander of police in Chachoengsao province, said the officers are working to identify Mr. Issara's accomplices by CCTV footage and other evidences to prosecute the suspects.

    Meanwhile, Pol.Col. Sirikul Srisanga, spokeswoman of the Police Hospital, where Mr. Yuem is currently admitted, told our correspondent that the victim still needs to breath through tube in his lung, as the organ has been damaged in the alleged torture.

    "He is occasionally exhausted, and he is hurt when he moves himself on the bed," Pol.Col. Sirikul said.

    en.khaosod.co.th

  12. #1737
    loob lor geezer
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    I know this is an English language forum but the following video ( from Channel 9 )
    is very informative from a career politician that has served 9 governments since October 14th and has seen it all. A good background to recent political history and the players. The guy speaks very slowly and is easy to understand.


  13. #1738
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo
    there is plenty of truth and reasonable comment in that post.
    it's facts and history, there is no reasonable comment in there, it's simply how things happened then, not my personal input on the matter

    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo
    But, Thaksin is still a smaller problem than the bluebloods who took over in the 1930's.
    we are not in the 1930s, this is now, the country has dramatically changed, you are addressing issues that happened in the last century, it's not helping in anything and it's a red herring. Look at what true Democratic principles are about to see where it should be going, not in the past.

  14. #1739
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Some interesting comments here. I first set foot on Thai soil in 1964. I was inexplicably taken by the country. And no, had nothing to do with the abundance of pussy. Being a history buff I decided to find out as much as I could about it's history, people, cultures, politics, laws and economy. From 1964 to 1974 I worked closely with the Thai Military here in Thailand and in Vietnam. In 1975 went to work for a US company that did a lot of business with the Thai government and private industry. I eventually moved here in 1986 and have been here ever since doing business with various government agencies and private enterprises. Some time along the way I acquired a family. Given this background a few comments.

    Government and private business is rife with corruption. Matters not the politics of an individual. Point out all you please about the corruption of the party you don't support. Exercise in futility. As some have noted, not going to change no matter which political party is in power. The crisis of the day has nothing to do with ridding corruption in politics.

    From the start of this I saw hair on fire comments on this board about civil war and the splitting of Thailand down the middle. The two individuals, Suthep and Thaksin, involved and their backers in this current pissing contest will never allow it. It won't happen. Way too much money and power to be lost.

    Then a bunch of posts about a coup. For several reasons the Army is in no mood for a coup. It won't happen.

    The elections will be continued and concluded.

    A year from now, this crisis will pass. Pass into history as many far worse have. Yes, there will likely be another because several things need to happen before all Thai citizens are treated with equality. In my short time in Thailand significant progress has been made toward a better form of Democracy.

    The most puzzling thing is comments I see here. "Thailand doesn't deserve democracy because the electorate are uneducated ignorant peasants". All aimed at those who vote for PT. Come on folks. Give us a break. You surely don't believe folks in the South who vote for the Dems are somehow magically endowed with superior intelligence! Also, let's be honest with ourselves. Electorates in western democracies aren't the sharpest tools in the shed either. Folks vote for the party who offers and delivers something the voter wants. No different here in Thailand.

    Last but not least, the idea that foreigners do not understand Thailand and should stay out of their politics is not on. Agree we should not be running around waving our banner of choice but those of us who have extended families here and have a desire to see they have a better life sure as hell don't want all the progress made since the 1997 Constitution erased.

    As I said above. This is not about removing political corruption. Label me red but I reject Suthep and the PDRC agenda. An agenda which has but one goal. Take away the right to vote!
    One of the best posts in a long time...Well done, Norton...

    Worth quoting again...

  15. #1740
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    “It is useful to know something of the manners of different nations, that we may be enabled to form a more correct judgment regarding our own, and be prevented from thinking that everything contrary to our customs is ridiculous and irrational, a conclusion usually come to by those whose experience has been limited to their own country.”
    ― René Descartes, Discourse on Method

  16. #1741
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyBKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by terry57 View Post

    Firstly he issued an order to off all the drug dealers that the police came across in their work. Killed a shit load of them.

    Some people didn't like that and complained that Thaksin was a cold blooded murderer. Myself thought it was the correct course of action as it removed a heap of scum from the streets and put the word out that you will be offed if caught peddling YA-Ba and assorted nasty stuff.

    Ive talked to a few Thai people about it and these people I talked to considered it a brilliant move as it had effect. Normal people had no fear concerning Thaksins actions. Only the drug dealing scum where effected.

    Terry, buddy, are you saying that gunning down nearly 3000 people in cold blood, without even giving them a chance to defend themselves in court is acceptable?

    Do you believe that people are innocent until proven guilty?

    Are you aware that the 2,873 people murdered during Thaksin's 3 month "War on Drugs" included entire families, women, children and seniors? And that by some estimates at least half those killed were completely innocent?

    Thaksin's "War on drugs" was a chance to settle scores. Open season on enemies of the ruling party. All you had to do was ACCUSE someone of being a druggie and the police would go and shoot them down for you.

    When the dust settled and the bodies were carted away the government's own narcotics control board concluded that more than half the victims had no involvement in drugs.

    Now imagine for a second if old square head returns to Thailand some day. You know he has scores to settle. How many of his enemies do you think will die in Thaksin's next "war on drugs"?

    Would you like to know more? A chronology of Thailand's "war on drugs"
    Which is why he will be arrested if he returns to Thailand. Job done.

    Now can you try to move on to this issue which is Suthep and his mob trying to remove the democratic process from the people of Thailand?

  17. #1742
    Thailand Expat terry57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyBKK View Post




    Are you aware that the 2,873 people murdered during Thaksin's 3 month "War on Drugs" included entire families, women, children and seniors? And that by some estimates at least half those killed were completely innocent?

    Would you like to know more? A chronology of Thailand's "war on drugs"


    Urm, had no Idea That the war on drugs extended that far and included that many deaths. Thanks for the heads up.

    So considering the above information one must wonder why some of the Farang on here support Thaksin and cry about Sutheps people. Only argument they have is that the Reds where elected in the democratic way. All the other stuff they throw up is just rhetoric.

    What about the Muslims down South ? That was fair enough wasn't it.

    But at the end of the day its very difficult to argue that over throwing a democratically elected government is a giant step backwards.

    Place is doomed if that is considered OK.
    Last edited by terry57; 09-03-2014 at 10:23 AM.

  18. #1743
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    Quote Originally Posted by terry57 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyBKK View Post




    Are you aware that the 2,873 people murdered during Thaksin's 3 month "War on Drugs" included entire families, women, children and seniors? And that by some estimates at least half those killed were completely innocent?

    Would you like to know more? A chronology of Thailand's "war on drugs"


    Urm, had no Idea That the war on drugs extended that far and included that many deaths. Thanks for the heads up.

    So considering the above information one must wonder why some of the Farang on here support Thaksin and cry about Sutheps people. Only argument they have is that the Reds where elected in the democratic way. All the other stuff they throw up is just rhetoric.

    What about the Muslims down South ? That was fair enough wasn't it.

    But at the end of the day its very difficult to argue that over throwing a democratically elected government is a giant step backwards.

    Place is doomed if that is considered OK.
    Oh, just look at the list of citations at the foot of that article.

    All this researcher has done is precis the newspapers - and only the English language ones.





    End Notes
    1 The Nation, 2 February 2003.[Back to content]
    2 The Nation, 2 February 2003. At time of writing, there are roughly 40 Thai Baht to US. [Back to content]
    3 'Named and shamed', Bangkok Post, 6 April 2003.[Back to content]
    4 Which has also been referred to by the media as the National Committee on the War on Drugs, and National Centre to Defeat Drugs. [Back to content]
    5 'Named and shamed'.[Back to content]
    6 'Named and shamed'.[Back to content]
    7 Brad Adams, 'Drug 'war' kills democracy too: Thailand's crackdown', International Herald Tribune, 24 April 2003. [Back to content]
    8 The Nation, 1 March 2003.[Back to content]
    9 The Nation, 9 March 2003.[Back to content]
    10 The Nation, 9 March 2003.[Back to content]
    11 The Nation, 13 February 2003.[Back to content]
    12 Amnesty International Press Release, 20 February 2003.[Back to content]
    13 Robert Horn, 'The killing season', Time Asia, 10 March 2003. [Back to content]
    14 'Innocent victims suffer in silence', Bangkok Post, 17 February 2003. [Back to content]
    15 'Families live in terror as suspects die', Bangkok Post, 1 March 2003. [Back to content]
    16 'Police arrest informants to meet target', Bangkok Post, 10 March 2003.[Back to content]
    17 The Nation, 15 February 2003.[Back to content]
    18 Editorial, Vancouver Sun, 8 April 2003.[Back to content]
    19 Seth Mydans, 'A wave of drug killings is linked to Thai police', New York Times, 8 April 2003.[Back to content]
    20 The Nation, 27 February 2003.[Back to content]
    21 'Campaign has torn some families apart', Bangkok Post, 19 May 2003. [Back to content]
    22 The Nation, 26 February 2003.[Back to content]
    23 'Named and shamed'.[Back to content]
    24 The Nation, 26 February 2003.[Back to content]
    25 Mydans, 'A wave of drug killings'.[Back to content]
    26 The Nation, 27 February 2003. [Back to content]
    27 'Lift the clouds of darkness and fear', Bangkok Post, 16 March 2003. [Back to content]
    28 Forum Asia statement, 7 March 2003.[Back to content]
    29 'Pradit subject of impeachment talk', The Nation, 6 March 2003. [Back to content]
    30 Wassana Nanuam, 'Pradit accused of protecting dealers', Bangkok Post, 11 March 2003. [Back to content]
    31 Yuwadee Tunyasiri, 'Thaksin blasts comments from Pradit as sickening', Bangkok Post, 9 March 2003. [Back to content]
    32 'Pradit subject of impeachment talk', The Nation, 6 March 2003.[Back to content]
    33 Editorial, Vancouver Sun, 8 April 2003. [Back to content]
    34 Forum Asia statement.[Back to content]
    35 'Target cut as some suspects don't exist.' Bangkok Post, 29 March 2003. [Back to content]
    36 The Nation, 2 April 2003.[Back to content]
    37 The Nation, 9 April 2003.[Back to content]
    38 'Three governors face chop for failing to achieve targets', Bangkok Post, 26 April 2003.[Back to content]
    39 The Nation, 24 April 2003. [Back to content]

  19. #1744
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    ^

    I'm a tad confused on the Thaksin killings. That link solid or what.

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    Quote Originally Posted by terry57
    So considering the above information one must wonder why some of the Farang on here support Thaksin and cry about Sutheps people.
    I've not seen one person supporting Thaksin on this thread, unless you mistakenly believe supporting the democratic process is supporting Thaksin?

    Thaksin (in theory) will be arrested and tried for some of his crimes if he comes back to Thailand, which is why he is in exile, but as Betty pointed out, there are a few people posting in this thread without the intellect to grasp simple theories like this.

  21. #1746
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog View Post
    I've not seen one person supporting Thaksin on this thread, unless you mistakenly believe supporting the democratic process is supporting Thaksin?
    How can you say you support "democracy" or Pheu Thai when the current government is run by a convicted fugitive?

    Don't you know who really runs Pheu Thai?

    Have you conveniently forgotten that Pheu Thai campaigned with a slogan of "Thaksin Thinks, Pheu Thai Does".

    On 16 May 2011, the Pheu Thai party voted to name Yingluck as the party's top candidate under the party-list system (and presumably be the party's nominee for Prime Minister) for parliamentary election scheduled for 3 July. However, she was not made party leader and she did not join the executive board of the party. The ultimate decision was made by Thaksin. "Some said she is my nominee. That's not true. But it can be said that Yingluck is my clone... Another important thing is that Ms Yingluck is my sister and she can make decisions for me. She can say 'yes' or 'no' on my behalf," Thaksin noted in an interview.[22]

  22. #1747
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog View Post

    Which is why he will be arrested if he returns to Thailand. Job done.

    Now can you try to move on to this issue which is Suthep and his mob trying to remove the democratic process from the people of Thailand?

    LMAO- dude, do you read the papers? Aren't you aware that it was Pheu Thai's Amnesty Bill that set off this latest round of anti-government protests.

    Never mind the fact that the Constitutional Court ruled the bill illegal, Pheu Thai went ahead and tried to push it through anyway in their ill-conceived quest to pardon Thaksin Shinawatra and return him to power.

    You've got it all wrong mate- the PDRC movement is all about STRENGTHENING democracy in Thailand via much needed reform and the elimination of the Shinawatra regime from Thai politics.

  23. #1748
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    What also can be said of Yingluck, a little known businesswoman who without any political background whatsoever, suddenly finds that she is Prime Minister of the country? Just bloody hilarious innit.
    At least Mike Basset who woke up one morning to find that he was the England Football Manager had some experience albeit in the lower leagues.


    The peasants who voted in 2011 had never even heard of Yingluck until a couple of months prior to election time. Certainly a lot worse than voting in the son of a North Korean leader, for at least the nation had some knowledge of the little blighter. (Polls I believe this weekend in NK fwiw, one party and a yes/no only required - forecast 100% turnout and 99% in favour of no change)

    No doubt if Yingluck gets her marching orders then Thakies son will be pronounced next in line, c/o a very dodgy educational degree from Kentucky State University.

    If it wasn't so incredibly unbelievable a film producer would make a documentary on the Shinawatra dynasty
    Last edited by Mr Lick; 09-03-2014 at 10:51 PM.

  24. #1749
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    ^
    Spot on Mate.

  25. #1750
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyBKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog View Post

    Which is why he will be arrested if he returns to Thailand. Job done.

    Now can you try to move on to this issue which is Suthep and his mob trying to remove the democratic process from the people of Thailand?

    LMAO- dude, do you read the papers? Aren't you aware that it was Pheu Thai's Amnesty Bill that set off this latest round of anti-government protests.

    Never mind the fact that the Constitutional Court ruled the bill illegal, Pheu Thai went ahead and tried to push it through anyway in their ill-conceived quest to pardon Thaksin Shinawatra and return him to power.

    You've got it all wrong mate- the PDRC movement is all about STRENGTHENING democracy in Thailand via much needed reform and the elimination of the Shinawatra regime from Thai politics.
    What an abolutely sad post. I live in one of the most pro Democrat areas in Thailand. I also live in possibly the most corrupt areas of Thailand.

    I kind of think of the politics within this land with the same ambiguity as everyone else. However, I also tend to think that a party that could offer fair health services, improved education, and equality of earnings, could possibly be adopted by all.

    Sorry, I've lost the plot. Health issues have been a long standing problem that the TRT sought equality of through their scheme. I think of a party that sought to improve every childs education through computer awareness, and not condemn them to to a lifetime of rice picking, as something worthwhile. I also think of some party that said, 'enough, a minimum wage for everyone' as perhaps not a party that seeks to rip off our nation. It's not without irony that the PT also passed a bill putting a minimum salary of 15,000 baht/month for all university graduates.

    Where is the Democrat agenda? Where is their proposals for health, education, welfare, social areas, economic reforms, etc etc.

    There isn't any. And that's why the Democrats can't face having an election. They don't have anything that anyone would want to elect.

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