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Yep, your freedoms are well preserved in Thailand.......
Just don't try testing that in the courts or in the Police Station.
And do you think there are no Security cameras in Thailand?.....cos there certainly isn't on every street corner in Australia.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegent
Another brain-fart from thegent. Alas, you not only failed to demonstrate a 'thesis' yourself, you fail to deconstruct mine.
And I called you a nincompoop first, you copycat retard.
My 'thesis' isn't about what 'repells' tourism, you moron. What I said, for the slow learner thegent, is the Thais will do everything in their power to hide the 'fact' that these women were murdered. And if you think that knowledge wouldn't slow tourism, then you need to go sit in the corner with your dunce cap on.Quote:
Originally Posted by thegent
Poor, thegent, can't even follow the bouncing ball of this thread.
Evidence of organophosphate pesticides found in 2009 Koh Phi Phi Western women victims; at least two of those poisoned (Kells and St Onge) ate burgers bought outside their guesthouse and consumed right before they got sick. Evidence of cyanide also found in 2009 Phi Phi victims, and their symptoms just happen to fit those of cyanide poisoning and/or organophosphate poisoning. Other tourists on Phi Phi and Phuket also die vomiting etc under mysterious circumstances in 2009. Then 7 people, most of them Western women including Sarah Carter, staying at 4 different hotels in Chiang Mai, are poisoned and die in 2011. June 2012 the two Canadian Belanger sisters are poisoned and die on Koh Phi Phi.
The symptoms and deaths on Phi Phi (2009 and 2012) and Chiang Mai (2011) do not correlate with 1) food poisoning, 2) party drugs 3) toxic seafood 4) dengue and other related fevers 5) alcohol 6) visine 7) GBH 8) water treatment plants 9) cholera and 10) mushrooms. Other than aluminum cyanide, most pesticides do not reliably kill by inhalation or skin exposure, and even if aluminum phosphide was shown to be the culprit it is next to impossible to have been accidental because we would see many, many more truly accidental deaths from this highly toxic poison if it were routinely used in the tens of thousands of hotel rooms in Thailand to kill, for instance, bed bugs.
Therefore, you don’t ‘get’ cyanide or aluminum phosphide poisoning ‘accidentally’ in this many victims and it is very, very difficult to get other kinds of poisoning ‘accidentally’ such that it will kill you immediately. Most poisons have to be ingested to be lethal.
The kind of poisons that can kill with the ingestion of as little as a teaspoon (chlorpyrifos, cyanide, methomyl) or a tiny piece of a 3 gram tablet or a 0.6 gram pellet (aluminum phosphide) are readily available in Thailand and are used by Thais in homicides and suicides.
Numerous posters, myself included, on various discussion boards have related stories of their own deliberate poisonings while in Thailand, often from disgruntled restaurant workers after complaining about the food or service. (Always carry activated charcoal in your travel kit and swallow a handful at first sign of feeling unwell. Activated charcoal, available in every Thai pharmacy, is THE number one poisoning protocol in emergency rooms worldwide for most types of poisonings). Thailand has a very high murder rate and many murderers are caught but are set free, and Thailand is known for the 100 or so ‘hitmen’--killers for hire--that roam free. Just like the Thai serial killer using the insecticide methomyl in his Thai victim’s coffees to steal their cars to earn $300 per car from a car theft ring, surely there are other serial killers in the Land of Smiles who are doing this for kicks or revenge.
Phuket and Koh Phi Phi are controlled by some very deviant, violent mafia-types who get easily angered when Westerners ‘challenge’ them. And it must always be remembered that the killer(s) do not have to be Thai.
Let's all quit pretending that Thailand is the only country in the world without serial killers. Just because you don't often hear about them in the Thai media only means the Thais don't do thorough investigations and, if they were to actually find one who was killing tourists, would very likely cover it up to protect their billion dollar tourist business.
To rule out a (serial) killer without a full investigation is a mistake no Western detective would make--unless the evidence was overwhelming.
Until proven otherwise, these deaths—Phi Phi (May 2009 and June 2012) and Chiang Mai 2011 were no ‘accidents’.
Frankly, I blame Hollywood.
Wow, I would of thought that it really would not make a rats arse of difference concerning tourist numbers simply because heaps of tourists have been murdered over the years and tourists keep coming.Quote:
Originally Posted by guyinthailand
Rational people can fathom that shit happens in every country and its mearly a roll of the dice whether one will be next. If one does not want to risk anything at all in this world just better off staying in ones bedroom wrapped up under a blanket.
Certainly don't travel to Australia as one could be picked up by " Ivan Millat " the serial backpacker murderer who offed a heap of traveler's in a Forrest.
Just saying like.
Risks exist everywhere and sadly these poor girls somehow fell afoul of their safety net and died. Perhaps foul play was involved, we will likely never know.:(Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobcock
It doesn't slow things much. There is no slow season in Thailand. These girls ventured out of their nanny state for some open space. I leave the nanny state twice a year.. There will always be risks but that won't stop ppl from wanting to get out of the nanny state for a break.Quote:
Originally Posted by Latindancer
As much as I deplore these killings I agree with socal to the extent that one of the things that makes Thailand interesting (if sometimes dangerous) is its wild side. But when parents and travelers figure out that a serial killer(s) are responsible for murdering kids, I think you will in fact see a drop in tourism.
Socal, your brains are leaking again.Quote:
Originally Posted by socal
The presence or absence of the Nanny State, does little to promote or deter murderers. There are violent, mindless murders in most countries. One of the differences between the notion of Nannyism and its alternative is the efficiency and honesty of government agencies, in particular the police force. In a regulated society the police are not subject to bribes and government pressure to avoid damaging the tourism industry. As regulation diminishes, so does official corruption increase.
Nannyism is a subjective state. Japan, for instance, is probably the ultimate Nanny State; but it is a wonderful place to live because, unlike the nannyism of autocracies, it is far less obtrusive.
Nannyism is not necessarily a trade-off between safety and freedom. And it isn't only apparent when individuals want to do something which other individuals say shouldn't be done. It becomes apparent generally when someone wants to do something which others say shouldn't be done, but there is no one close by who cares to criticise, or who tries enforce the law.
That you find yourself in some congruence with that idiot must surely tell you help is needed, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by guyinthailand
[quote=Blue water dreaming;2156845]Honesty is the only thing at play here. Nanny state govt agencies are the opposite of efficiency. It took over a year for the Canadian govt to charge anyone in the Hockey riots even though they had lots of names and arrests.Quote:
The presence or absence of the Nanny State, does little to promote or deter murderers. There are violent, mindless murders in most countries. One of the differences between the notion of Nannyism and its alternative is the efficiency and honesty of government agencies, in particular the police force.
The tourism industry does not want to damage the tourism industry. It is in their interest. They don't need top down regulation as an incentive.Quote:
In a regulated society the police are not subject to bribes and government pressure to avoid damaging the tourism industry.
Most industries have associations that can regulate themselves.Quote:
As regulation diminishes, so does official corruption increase.
There is different verities of nannyism around the world.Quote:
Nannyism is a subjective state. Japan, for instance, is probably the ultimate Nanny State; but it is a wonderful place to live because, unlike the nannyism of autocracies, it is far less obtrusive.
There is something about the freedom on the ground that you feel in a place like Thailand and that is what draws the tourists. Culture has something to do with it too. Too much structure and regulation takes the fun out of life.Quote:
Nannyism is not necessarily a trade-off between safety and freedom.
You are just pissed that you are now a known communist. Not just a closet one.Quote:
Originally Posted by thegentThat you find yourself in some congruence with that idiot must surely tell you help is needed, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by guyinthailand
^^ We are then, surprisingly, in broad agreement. The only comment I add is that where bureaucracy is concerned, Thailand moves far more slowly than Australia and Japan, which are both highly regulated so called Nanny States, but which are very efficient countries that spectacularly out perform Thailand in the getting-things-done department.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegentThat you find yourself in some congruence with that idiot must surely tell you help is needed, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by guyinthailand
I think the phrase "no shit sherlock" is appropriate in this particular situation.
:rofl:
We will never find out the cause of these deaths, one thing is for sure, TD's very own super sleuth Guy in Thailand got it correct,
Which one out of his 200 deductions is anyones guess though
Actually, there are only a 'handfull' of possibilities. And I admit an earlier surmise of mine--warfarins/rat poison--is no longer a likely suspect, not because it can't cause some of the symptoms they had (it can), but it takes too long to do it and (usually) has to be eaten in large quantities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwang
Since deadly poisons are readily available in Thailand and are used in homicides in Thailand let’s list the likely chemical poisons in the recent deaths of the Belanger sisters, keeping in mind that the symptoms and deaths of the 2009 and 2012 Kho Phi Phi poisoning victims and the 2011 poisoning victims in Chiang Mai do not correlate with 1) food poisoning, 2) party drugs 3) toxic seafood 4) dengue and other related fevers 5) alcohol 6) visine 7) GBH 8) water treatment plants 9) cholera 10) mushrooms .
Nor do they correlate with skin exposure or with inhaling poisons with the exception of aluminum phosphide, which, if it were the culprit, it was highly likely it was not accidental because, given the highly toxic inhalation nature of aluminum phosphide, if it were used in any of the many tens of thousands of Thai hotel rooms with the 15 million visitors per year, we would see many, many more truly accidental deaths from it.
Also because aluminum phosphide would have seeped under and out of doors and made many others sick in those hotels. So, as you see below, aluminum phosphide is one of the ‘better’ suspects, but the route of exposure—as in India—is most likely by ingestion. 150 milligrams will kill—which is a tiny piece of the readily available 3 gram tablets or one of the 0.6 gram pellets.
Given the facts that indicate these deaths were not accidental, it would be illogical to rule out murder until it has been proven otherwise.
The symptoms the victims had are as follows along with the poisons that are readily available in Thailand, a small amount of which, slipped in a drink or food, can easily kill.
Note that organophosphates include chlorpyrifos. And carbamates include methomyl, which was used by Thai serial killer to kill his victims so he could steal their cars and earn $300 for each.
Cyanosis
(“blue or purple coloration of the skin or mucous membranes due to the tissues near the skin surface being low on oxygen” Note that cyanide produces cherry red skin and does not directly cause cyanosis).
Paraquat; 1080; strychnine; organochlorine pesticides; organophsphate and carbamate insecticides; aluminum phosphide
Diarrhea (first)
Organophosphate and carbamate pesticides;
Nausea & vomiting followed by diarrhea
aluminum phosphide; Organophosphate and carbamate pesticides; arsenic; cyanide;
Bloody diarrhea
Paraquat; Arsenic; aluminum phosphide;coumarin (anti-coagulant i.e. rat poison)
Pulmonary edema
(note that many chemicals come packaged in a hydrocarbon base which is well-known to cause pulmonary edema)
Aluminum phosphide; organophosphate and carbamate pesticides; paraquat; cyanide
Kidney failure
aluminum phosphide; Paraquat;
Salivation
Organophosphate and carbamate pesticides; cyanide
Ecchymoses (bruising)
Coumarin; aluminum phosphide
Myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle)
Aluminum phosphide; paraquat; organophosphates;
http://npic.orst.edu/RMPP/rmpp_inss.pdf
(National Poison Information Center)
I think we should call him Dr. House. After all, his diagnoses were fictional as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwang
:rofl:
shrooms dont count as a drug \?Quote:
Originally Posted by guyinthailandActually, there are only a 'handfull' of possibilities. And I admit an earlier surmise of mine--warfarins/rat poison--is no longer a likely suspect, not because it can't cause some of the symptoms they had (it can), but it takes too long to do it and (usually) has to be eaten in large quantities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwang
Since deadly poisons are readily available in Thailand and are used in homicides in Thailand let’s list the likely chemical poisons in the recent deaths of the Belanger sisters, keeping in mind that the symptoms and deaths of the 2009 and 2012 Kho Phi Phi poisoning victims and the 2011 poisoning victims in Chiang Mai do not correlate with 1) food poisoning, 2) party drugs 3) toxic seafood 4) dengue and other related fevers 5) alcohol 6) visine 7) GBH 8) water treatment plants 9) cholera 10) mushrooms .
Nor do they correlate with skin exposure or with inhaling poisons with the exception of aluminum phosphide, which, if it were the culprit, it was highly likely it was not accidental because, given the highly toxic inhalation nature of aluminum phosphide, if it were used in any of the many tens of thousands of Thai hotel rooms with the 15 million visitors per year, we would see many, many more truly accidental deaths from it.
Also because aluminum phosphide would have seeped under and out of doors and made many others sick in those hotels. So, as you see below, aluminum phosphide is one of the ‘better’ suspects, but the route of exposure—as in India—is most likely by ingestion. 150 milligrams will kill—which is a tiny piece of the readily available 3 gram tablets or one of the 0.6 gram pellets.
Given the facts that indicate these deaths were not accidental, it would be illogical to rule out murder until it has been proven otherwise.
The symptoms the victims had are as follows along with the poisons that are readily available in Thailand, a small amount of which, slipped in a drink or food, can easily kill.
Note that organophosphates include chlorpyrifos. And carbamates include methomyl, which was used by Thai serial killer to kill his victims so he could steal their cars and earn $300 for each.
Cyanosis
(“blue or purple coloration of the skin or mucous membranes due to the tissues near the skin surface being low on oxygen” Note that cyanide produces cherry red skin and does not directly cause cyanosis).
Paraquat; 1080; strychnine; organochlorine pesticides; organophsphate and carbamate insecticides; aluminum phosphide
Diarrhea (first)
Organophosphate and carbamate pesticides;
Nausea & vomiting followed by diarrhea
aluminum phosphide; Organophosphate and carbamate pesticides; arsenic; cyanide;
Bloody diarrhea
Paraquat; Arsenic; aluminum phosphide;coumarin (anti-coagulant i.e. rat poison)
Pulmonary edema
(note that many chemicals come packaged in a hydrocarbon base which is well-known to cause pulmonary edema)
Aluminum phosphide; organophosphate and carbamate pesticides; paraquat; cyanide
Kidney failure
aluminum phosphide; Paraquat;
Salivation
Organophosphate and carbamate pesticides; cyanide
Ecchymoses (bruising)
Coumarin; aluminum phosphide
Myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle)
Aluminum phosphide; paraquat; organophosphates;
http://npic.orst.edu/RMPP/rmpp_inss.pdf
(National Poison Information Center)
It coul;d have been a mix. They where probably piss drunk so their bodies where in no shape to fight off any unforeseen shit like food poisoning.
For all that is said about medical advancement these days, why cant anyone figure out what happened |?
You're right, mushrooms can kill but they don't cause the symptoms and kinds of death these victims experienced. And food poisoning doesn't either. So it can't have been mushrooms or food poisoning.Quote:
Originally Posted by socal
I wonder what's happened about the Portuguese guy ? Even if he really was a good samaritan, he must be able to shed some light on the circumstances. Must be stuff going on behind the scenes with him being interviewed back in Portugal, surely ? He could well hold the key.
Perhaps the most likely poison in the Koh Phi Phi and Chiang Mai deaths.
The poison, methomyl (Thai brand name ‘Lannate’) is banned and/or highly restricted in many countries but readily available in Thailand and is widely used by Thais for suicide and homicide. As I will show in a subsequent post, methomyl is an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor that in acute poisonings does not remain in the body very long and can be very hard to detect on autopsy (unlike organophosphorous pesticides).
"Most of the insecticides were carbamates, of which 13.7 percent of them were methomyl carbamate.The incidence was hightened among males, aged over 35 listed as workers and farmers. The manner of death was mainly suicide".
Insecticides Detection in Toxicological Samples from Chiang Rai and Phayao
Even Thai people who have left Thailand carry the knowledge of their seemingly favorite poisoning method with them and use it to kill in the USA.
newscast from 2011 showing how U.S. Marshals hunted this bitch all over the world and finally dragged her sorry ass back to the U.S. after she killed her husband with methomyl (lannate) in 2006.
Janjira Jeffrey Smith Spiked Boyfriends Jägermeister With Poison - YouTube
Woman charged in slaying of former boyfriend
By Peyton Whitely
Seattle Times Eastside bureau oct 27, 2006
Janjira "Jenny" Smith, 51, of Redmond, was charged in absentia Thursday with one count of first-degree murder and one count of second-degree assault in connection with the death of her former boyfriend
A woman was charged Thursday with first-degree murder and first-degree assault after police say she poisoned her former boyfriend and injured another woman in Kirkland earlier this month.
Janjira Jeffrey Smith, 51, is accused of killing Roger Lewis, 56, and causing the temporary blindness of Thanyarat O. Sengpharaghanh, 42, by putting insecticide into a bottle of liqueur.
About 7:30 p.m., she contacted Sengpharaghanh and offered her a bottle of Jagermeister, Lewis's favorite, and told her to make sure he drank some before they went out. Smith enlisted the help of her friend, Douglas Teague, 54, of Redmond, to meet Sengpharaghanh in downtown Kirkland to hand off the bottle.
Sengpharaghanh told police Lewis had a shot of the green, licorice-flavored liqueur and she had half of a shot. She said she felt sick "almost immediately," lost her sight and blacked out.
The next day, a friend discovered Sengpharaghanh disoriented and blind in her Tera apartment on Sixth Street in downtown Kirkland. Sengpharaghanh was transported to Evergreen Hospital, where it was determined she'd suffered a stroke from a lack of oxygen to the brain. Lewis, who was found face down between the coffee table and the couch, was declared dead at the scene.
Police sent what remained in the bottle of Jagermeister and the two shot glasses to the state toxicology lab, where investigators discovered a yellow oily substance floating on top of the liquid in the bottle. After analyzing the contents of the bottle and the glasses, they determined the booze had been spiked with a highly toxic insecticide called methomyl. Methomyl is so poisonous, it's a registered substance and can only be used by certified applicators, according to charging papers. (NOTE: Methomyl is registered like this in the USA. In Thailand, however, anyone can lay their hands on a bottle of it.) https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...-kirkland.html
****
and another killing with methomyl, this one in Thailand
(jan 23, 2008) Police found insecticide in milk carton Chumphon Thailand woman drank from and died
CHUMPHON, Thailand - Police Wednesday found milk consumed by a woman who died here on Tuesday contained a commercial insecticide.
They said two containers of milk, one of coffee and one of tobacco were contaminated by the poison.
The DuPont crop treatment's main ingredients are methomyl, cyclohexanone and metahanol.Police are looking at the possibility those responsible had attempted to kill the whole family of four. They said the family was involved in a land dispute.
However, they are still treating the husband as a suspect.
Lamae superintendent, Colonel Phakhapol Thavishsri, yesterday said the insecticide had been introduced to the milk and coffee with a syringe.
Husband Samart Kongsung, 39, said they discovered the milk and coffee in their kitchen when they returned from morning rubber tapping.
Samart said none of the family members had purchased the goods and he told his wife not to touch them. She ignored him, he said.
https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...tml#post512042
CALIFORNIA On January 5, 1999, the California Department of Health Services was notified of the repeated occurrence (December 21, 1998, and January 2, 1999) of gastrointestinal tract illness among patrons at a Thai restaurant in central California.
Objective To identify the source of the outbreak.
Conclusion This outbreak of gastrointestinal illness was associated with the consumption of food seasoned with methomyl-contaminated salt
(Question: How the f*#k did methomyl get in the salt in a Thai restaurant in California)?
JAMA Network | JAMA: The Journal of the American Medical Association | An Outbreak of Food-Borne Illness Associated With Methomyl-Contaminated Salt
Suicide in the North of Thailand
Manote Lotrakul, MD*
* Department of Psychiatry, Faculty of Medicine, Ramathibodi Hospital, Thailand Suicide by hanging has been consistently high for both genders and across all ages which accounted for about 70% of complete suicide each year. The notable change was an increase in pesticide ingestion particularly in females. Pesticides and insecticides are easily available in rural areas, particularly during harvesting and planting times. The widelyused substance is methomyl which is a broad spectrum carbamate insecticide. Besides a faint odor, methomyl is water soluble and easily available. These make it the most commonly used substance for suicide.
Suicide In the North of Thailand (Manote Lotrakul) - Academia.edu
and of course here is Thailand’s most recent captured serial killer (6 people) with his bottle of “Lannate” (methomyl) that he mixed in their coffees to steal their cars and earn $300 per car.
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif
Province | Noppakun |
I don't think I'd want that dude on the right of the page leering at me from the wrong side of some prison bars. Though it may just be the poor photo....
That's a great picture, he allegedly tried to kill himself the night before it was taken and he successfully killed himself a few hours after it was taken (perhaps with a little help).Quote:
Originally Posted by Latindancer