Thread: Child - Dual citizensip - a problem

Hello all,

Encountered this problem to day upon our arrival in the Kingdom. I hope someone here can clarify this for me.

My three children have dual citizenship - Thai/ Aus. My oldest son is six and has already travelled on both passports. Last time he entered LoS with his AUS passport which was issued in AUS. During that trip he then used his Thai passport to enter Laos because it is cheaper with a Thai passport than with the Aus one. He entered Laos and then returned to Thailand and then exited Thailand for AUS with his AUS passport (because he entered Thailand initially with the same AUS passport).

Two years on, this morning Thai immigration said that he cannot enter Thailand on his Thai passport because there is a system mismatch and he should have entered Thailand from AUS first time on his Thai passport. Because he used his Thai passport to enter Laos and then come back to Thailand the system shows that he never left Thailand since that time although he lived in Aus during the time. A senior immigration officer at the BKK airport told us that he cannot use this passport anymore (luckily it's about to expire) and he must enter Thailand with his new Thai passport next time before he uses it anywhere else.

As a result today he had to enter the kingdom on his Aus passport which would have been ok except we are staying for over 30 days in LoS this time. I guess we can do a visa run for him but it kind of interferes with out intinerary. We asked the senior office what to do about the extension and she told us not to worry as he won't be fined because he is only 6 yrs old.

This worries me and my questions are:
- Can he still be fined?
- Can he be blacklisted for overstaying for almost 2 weeks.
- I think it's mad that a Thai passport holder cannot enter Thailand with their passport just because he used it to enter Laos first and not Thailand.

Thanks and sorry for a long winded and confusing post.

B

Originally Posted by bangkokpi

I think it's mad that a Thai passport holder cannot enter Thailand with their passport just because he used it to enter Laos first and not Thailand.

You got that one wrong.
His thai passport shows that he entered thailand and never left.
Therefore the computer will not let him enter again on the same passport for obvious reasons.

^ & how stupid is that???

He is a person entering the country, but the 'system' doesn't recognise him as a person' flesh and blood standing there, but a human immigration officer can't see them due to his preference for listening to a computer.

& we think this state of affairs is 'normal', it is not. A person iss a person no matter what a computer says...

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

^ & how stupid is that?

Think it through, perfectly logical.
The passport may have been mailed to someone outside Thailand so that they can enter on it.
You cannot allow a passport two consecutive entries.

Technically the exit to Laos on the Thai Passport was illegal as the child had entered Thailand on the Australian Passport. However the computer system wouldn't have picked up the child as being the same person.

Originally Posted by bangkokpi

Hello all,

We asked the senior office what to do about the extension and she told us not to worry as he won't be fined because he is only 6 yrs old.

This worries me and my questions are:
- Can he still be fined?
- Can he be blacklisted for overstaying for almost 2 weeks.

Should he be blacklisted for this overstay, that would be the first time I`ve ever heard about it.
I have a friend who overstayed for 6 years, he is still not blacklisted.

For what it is worth:

I brought my son - at that time 1 years of age - to Padang Basar, malaysian border, on a visa trip.
When I arrived at the border carrying my son the immigration officer noticed that he was very tired. (We went on the public bus from Phuket, long strenous journey)
He: Why did your bring your son all this way for a visa trip?
He is just a child, no need for that.
Me: But overstay, fine etc...?
He: He is just a child, don`t worry about it. No problem.

No overstay fines for kids under 7. Of course, if he has a birthday and turns 7 in the next few weeks, he might then be spending it in the IDC. (Joke! )

Originally Posted by Begbie

Technically the exit to Laos on the Thai Passport was illegal as the child had entered Thailand on the Australian Passport.

Wrong.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by Begbie

Technically the exit to Laos on the Thai Passport was illegal as the child had entered Thailand on the Australian Passport.

Wrong.

You sure about that Marmite? Perhaps you could clarify with a few words.

No visa necessary for kids under 12 or 14 !

So enter Aussie and he can overstay years no problem at all...

Originally Posted by Gerbil

No overstay fines for kids under 7

No overstay fines for children under 14.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

^ & how stupid is that???

He is a person entering the country, but the 'system' doesn't recognise him as a person' flesh and blood standing there, but a human immigration officer can't see them due to his preference for listening to a computer.

& we think this state of affairs is 'normal', it is not. A person iss a person no matter what a computer says...

Thanks for understanding that. That was my argument. No matter how he entered or left Thailand and on which passport he is still a Thai citizen and they don't recognise his passport!

Originally Posted by Thetyim

Originally Posted by bangkokpi

I think it's mad that a Thai passport holder cannot enter Thailand with their passport just because he used it to enter Laos first and not Thailand.

You got that one wrong.
His thai passport shows that he entered thailand and never left.
Therefore the computer will not let him enter again on the same passport for obvious reasons.

Yep. We got that one wrong indeed. Live and learn. That's exactly what their system said and the data do not match. I wonder what would happen if he didnt have his AUS passport with him. Deported?

Originally Posted by Begbie

Technically the exit to Laos on the Thai Passport was illegal as the child had entered Thailand on the Australian Passport. However the computer system wouldn't have picked up the child as being the same person.

Yes, realise it now, but still I believe they should have allowed the entry if he presents his Thai passport.

Originally Posted by pescator

Originally Posted by bangkokpi

Hello all,

We asked the senior office what to do about the extension and she told us not to worry as he won't be fined because he is only 6 yrs old.

This worries me and my questions are:
- Can he still be fined?
- Can he be blacklisted for overstaying for almost 2 weeks.

Should he be blacklisted for this overstay, that would be the first time I`ve ever heard about it.
I have a friend who overstayed for 6 years, he is still not blacklisted.

For what it is worth:

I brought my son - at that time 1 years of age - to Padang Basar, malaysian border, on a visa trip.
When I arrived at the border carrying my son the immigration officer noticed that he was very tired. (We went on the public bus from Phuket, long strenous journey)
He: Why did your bring your son all this way for a visa trip?
He is just a child, no need for that.
Me: But overstay, fine etc...?
He: He is just a child, don`t worry about it. No problem.

That's great to hear. Thanks. I might just let him overstay then.

Cheers

B

Originally Posted by bangkokpi

Originally Posted by pescator

Originally Posted by bangkokpi

Hello all,

We asked the senior office what to do about the extension and she told us not to worry as he won't be fined because he is only 6 yrs old.

This worries me and my questions are:
- Can he still be fined?
- Can he be blacklisted for overstaying for almost 2 weeks.

Should he be blacklisted for this overstay, that would be the first time I`ve ever heard about it.
I have a friend who overstayed for 6 years, he is still not blacklisted.

For what it is worth:

I brought my son - at that time 1 years of age - to Padang Basar, malaysian border, on a visa trip.
When I arrived at the border carrying my son the immigration officer noticed that he was very tired. (We went on the public bus from Phuket, long strenous journey)
He: Why did your bring your son all this way for a visa trip?
He is just a child, no need for that.
Me: But overstay, fine etc...?
He: He is just a child, don`t worry about it. No problem.

That's great to hear. Thanks. I might just let him overstay then.

Cheers

B

Thanks a lot for your help, you knowledgeable souls. That puts my mind at rest...
Cheers

B

Originally Posted by Begbie

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by Begbie

Technically the exit to Laos on the Thai Passport was illegal as the child had entered Thailand on the Australian Passport.

Wrong.

You sure about that Marmite? Perhaps you could clarify with a few words.

if Marmite says it is wrong, it is

and it is also obvious!

Originally Posted by bangkokpi

Thanks a lot for your help, you knowledgeable souls.

bloody hell, don't believe anyone here!

I think you should think about what you are doing in the future, to make life easier

If he comes to Thailand, use the Thai passport. When he leaves Thailand, use the Thai passport

other than that, use the Aussie version

Originally Posted by bangkokpi

I wonder what would happen if he didnt have his AUS passport with him. Deported?

I expect you would be led away to an interview room and waste all day in there explaining what happened before being admitted.
The immigration officer probably decided it would be a lot easier for you to use the Oz passport and start your holiday

Your problem is not all that unique among the well to do Thais. I know a woman who is Thai, born here and a naturalized Australian citizen. She is even married to a ranking Thai military officer. She had the exact same problem and ended up paying the 20,000 baht over-stay fee just to get rid of the problem. It seemed strange to me that her husband could not fix the situation with a phone call, but on the other hand, she would have no reason to tell me this if it were not true I hope you can make the problem go away cheaper than that, but you are not the first to have this problem.

Originally Posted by DrAndy

Originally Posted by bangkokpi

Thanks a lot for your help, you knowledgeable souls.

bloody hell, don't believe anyone here!

I think you should think about what you are doing in the future, to make life easier

If he comes to Thailand, use the Thai passport. When he leaves Thailand, use the Thai passport

other than that, use the Aussie version

LOL! What people said so far here makes sense. It is obvious to me now but was not at the time.
Cheers

Originally Posted by BobR

Your problem is not all that unique among the well to do Thais. I know a woman who is Thai, born here and a naturalized Australian citizen. She is even married to a ranking Thai military officer. She had the exact same problem and ended up paying the 20,000 baht over-stay fee just to get rid of the problem. It seemed strange to me that her husband could not fix the situation with a phone call, but on the other hand, she would have no reason to tell me this if it were not true I hope you can make the problem go away cheaper than that, but you are not the first to have this problem.

Thanks Bob,

I think so. Because in the new version of Thai passport that my younger girls got from the Thai embassy in Australia there is now a stamp saying the Thai child born overseas and the passport must be stamped by Thai immigration when first entering Thailand. My son's older passport did not have that stamp. It shows that a few ppl must have had that issue and they are now putting a stamp in passports of foreign born Thai children. What also should have happened is when we went to Laos with that passport, Thai immigration officer in Ubon should have said that we can't use the passport to exit Thailand and must use it to enter the Kingdom first. They obviously were as oblivious to the fact as we were or didn't notice that he was born o/s. It appears that the Thai kids born overseas do not have the same passports as those born in Thailand, at least until the first entry to the kingdom.

B

Originally Posted by bangkokpi

Originally Posted by BobR

Your problem is not all that unique among the well to do Thais. I know a woman who is Thai, born here and a naturalized Australian citizen. She is even married to a ranking Thai military officer. She had the exact same problem and ended up paying the 20,000 baht over-stay fee just to get rid of the problem. It seemed strange to me that her husband could not fix the situation with a phone call, but on the other hand, she would have no reason to tell me this if it were not true I hope you can make the problem go away cheaper than that, but you are not the first to have this problem.

Thanks Bob,

I think so. Because in the new version of Thai passport that my younger girls got from the Thai embassy in Australia there is now a stamp saying the Thai child born overseas and the passport must be stamped by Thai immigration when first entering Thailand. My son's older passport did not have that stamp. It shows that a few ppl must have had that issue and they are now putting a stamp in passports of foreign born Thai children. What also should have happened is when we went to Laos with that passport, Thai immigration officer in Ubon should have said that we can't use the passport to exit Thailand and must use it to enter the Kingdom first. They obviously were as oblivious to the fact as we were or didn't notice that he was born o/s. It appears that the Thai kids born overseas do not have the same passports as those born in Thailand, at least until the first entry to the kingdom.

B

I've got dual Australian Thai citizenship.

You've managed to get the computers nickers in a twist for sure. You have your son in Thailand on an australian passport, while at the same time, you've got your son's Thai passport having 'never left' the country after the return from Laos.

Lesson learned - the Thai immigration computer is like an accountant - debits must equal credits!

Suggest you do this:

- when you do eventually leave for OZ - show the Thai passport at immigraton at the airport to be stamped out on. This should be OK as as far as the computer is concerned, your son (the Thai citizen) had never left Thailand since his last trip to laos.

- Enter OZ on the OZ passport (of course)

- from that point onwards - ALWAYS enter and exit Thailand using the Thai passport. Never again, should your son (the Australian version of him at least) step on Thai soil.

It 'should' work, but if it doesn't feign ignorance, look aplogectic, and show the OZ one to be stamped out on.

General rule is always depart Thailand on the passport you entered on. As a general rule also, I travel around Asia on my Thai passport (usually the visa's are easier) and use my Australian passport for travelling to 'the west'.

If in future there are issues with re-entering Thailand on the Thai passport, ask the immigration officer if you can speak with the supervisor. It is possible to overide the system, you just need to be insistent and stand your ground (trust me, I've done it myself).

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Wrong.

Not

You must enter and leave a country on the same passport. You can swap passports inbetween countries, but not within a country.

Really quite simple.

You should also be able to accompany him into Thailand using the gate for Thai citizens, if you have a foreign passport, which may save you some time.