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  1. #1
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
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    Insurance Requirement Raises Its Ugly Head Again

    https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/112...term-visitors/


    Thailand to demand proof of health insurance for 'risky' long-term visitors


    Insurance Requirement Raises Its Ugly Head Again-bill-jpg-ed665679c3569db7c16883fa9ffde7ba-jpg


    BANGKOK (Reuters) - Foreigners in the “risky” over-50 age group will have to present proof of health insurance when applying for Thai long-term non-immigrant visas, a minister said on Wednesday, so the government doesn’t have to pick up their medical bills.

    The rule takes effect at the end of the month to ensure the visitors can afford treatment during a maximum one-year stay and the government does not have to foot the bill, Sathit Pitutecha, deputy minister of public health, told Reuters.

    Thailand, a Southeast Asian tourist destination popular with ageing Westerners, currently has to pay around 500 million baht ($16.49 million) a year in medical bills for foreigners over 50, he said, an age group the government describes as “risky”.

    “Hospitals have to treat them because of human rights reasons, but when we ask them to pay us back, they can’t,” Sathit said.
    “These costs become burdensome for the public health ministry, so we pushed for the insurance policy.”

    Immigration police data shows Thailand has received more than 80,000 applications for non-immigrant visas so far this year.

    (Reporting by Panarat Thepgumpanat; Writing by Patpicha Tanakasempipat; Editing by Nick Macfie
    Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.)

    -- Copyright Reuters 2019-10-10
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Insurance Requirement Raises Its Ugly Head Again-bill-jpg-ed665679c3569db7c16883fa9ffde7ba-jpg  

  2. #2
    Thailand Expat
    taxexile's Avatar
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    Thailand, a Southeast Asian tourist destination popular with ageing Westerners, currently has to pay around 500 million baht ($16.49 million) a year in medical bills for foreigners over 50, he said, an age group the government describes as “risky”.“Hospitals have to treat them because of human rights reasons, but when we ask them to pay us back, they can’t,” Sathit said.
    “These costs become burdensome for the public health ministry, so we pushed for the insurance policy.”
    if the avaricious grasping racists that recently passed legislation allowing foreigners to be charged up to 50% more than locals for health treatment repealed that disgraceful law then fewer foreigners would find themselves unable to pay their bills.

  3. #3
    ความรู้ลึกลับ HuangLao's Avatar
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    ....only for those who take such make believe policies literally and serious.

    Suckers.

  4. #4
    Thailand Expat
    taxexile's Avatar
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    only for those who take such make believe policies literally and serious.

    Suckers.
    what on earth are you talking about???

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile View Post
    what on earth are you talking about???
    Think he means, just another politician spouting some hot air to get 15 minutes of press time.


    Quote [The rule takes effect at the end of the month to ensure the visitors can afford treatment during a maximum one-year stay and the government does not have to foot the bill, Sathit Pitutecha, deputy minister of public health, told Reuters.

    What rules, or changes to the law is he talking abo
    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Immigration police data shows Thailand has received more than 80,000 applications for non-immigrant visas so far this year.
    Immigration does not do visas, that's the foreign office.

    My all time favorite, was Thai missile defenses shot down a Cambodian high altitude spy plane. All over the TV, few problems, Cambodia does not have high altitude spy planes, Thailand does not have a missile defense system that would put Israel to shame and it was a Chinese spacecraft that blow up in sub orbit.

    Why let facts get in the way of a good story.

  6. #6
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamescollister View Post
    Think he means, just another politician spouting some hot air to get 15 minutes of press time.
    Think you think correctly.

  7. #7
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
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    A bit more info. From the website listed below. The last time I checked this website July 2019, there was no info on insurance for the O-A 1 year visa. The info for the O-X 10 year visa was present. Read into this what you like. The article says these rules become effective end-of-month. Nothing on the Royal Thai Embassy Washington DC website requiring insurance for the O-A. It does show the insurance requirement for the O-X.


    From The Thai General Insurance Association's Website

    https://longstay.tgia.org

    Thai General Insurance Association

    Guidelines Non-Immigrant Visa (O-X)
    This visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 5 years each time (total 10 years). This is only for national of 14 countries such as Japan, Australia, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Netherland, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom.

    Applicant must be aged 50 years old and over (on the day of visa submission application)
    Each applicant, including spouse and children, must have their own Health Insurance Certificate to present during visa application process.

    Health insurance policy must have coverage not less than 400,000 Thai Baht per policy year for Inpatient, and not less than 40,000 Thai Baht per policy year for outpatient.

    Each applicant, including spouse and children, must ensure that he/she has always held the Thai health insurance policy throughout the granted period of long stay visa. Failure to meet this requirement will be considered as disqualified to the standard requirements under the announcement by Department of Consular Affairs, and the granted visa will be withdrawn.

    All applicants must contact authorized insurance companies directly to apply for Thai health insurance policy. Any inquiries on completing Insurance application can be addressed at each insurance company.

    COMPANIES OFFERING INSURANCE POLICIES FOR THE O-X (10 YEAR VISA)
    THAIVIVAT INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED
    PACIFIC CROSS HEALTH INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LTD
    NAVAKIJ INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED
    AXA INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED
    THE VIRIYAH INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED


    Guidelines Non-Immigrant Visa (O-A)
    Applicant must be aged 50 years old and over (on the day of visa submission application)
    This visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 1 year each time.

    Health insurance policy must have coverage not less than 400,000 Thai Baht per policy year for Inpatient, and not less than 40,000 Thai Baht per policy year for outpatient.

    In the case where the accompanying spouse is not eligible to apply for the O-A visa, he or she will be considered for temporary stay under Category O visa. A marriage certificate must be provided as evidence.

    First year, all applicants can buy health insurance from insurance companies in their owned countries or authorized insurance company in Thailand. When the applicants want to renew the visa, the applicants must buy insurance from authorized insurance companies in Thailand only. Any inquiries on completing Insurance application can be addressed at each insurance company.

    COMPANIES OFFERING INSURANCE POLICIES FOR THE O-A (1 YEAR VISA)
    DHIPAYA INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED
    AETNA HEALTH INSURANCE (THAILAND) PUBLIC COMPANY LTD
    THAIVIVAT INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED
    PACIFIC CROSS HEALTH INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LTD
    THE FALCON INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED
    BANGKOK INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED
    SOMPO JAPAN NIPPONKA INS (THAILAND) PUBLIC CO LTD
    THAI HEALTH INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED
    NAVAKIJ INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED
    ASIA INSURANCE 1950 PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED
    AXA INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED
    THE VIRIYAH INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED
    LMG INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED

    This's TGIA website. It's being provided as a convenience and for information purposes only. TGIA bears no responsibility for the accuracy, legality or content of the external site or for that of subsequent links. Contact the external site for answers to questions regarding its content.

    2019 - Thai General Insurance Association. All rights reserved.
    25 Soi Sukhumvit 64/1, Sukhumvit Road, Phra Khanong Tai, Phra Khanong, Bangkok 10260 Tel: +66 2108 8399 Fax: +66 2108 8398

    Insurance Requirement Raises Its Ugly Head Again-screen-shot-2019-10-10-9-a
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Insurance Requirement Raises Its Ugly Head Again-screen-shot-2019-10-10-9-a  

  8. #8
    Thailand Expat

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    The premium for such a piddling level of cover for those over 65 years old will be in the order of 60,000 baht per annum and the policy will be riddled with exclusions to a degree that as a form of protection in the event of ill health it will be virtually worthless. However, it is a tax on visitors that will benefit the Thai insurance sector which of course is what this is all about.

    Currently, it is limited to those applying for a O-A visa but must now be only a matter of time before it is extended to those of us seeking extensions as retirees and spouses.

    Just more grist to the racist mill.

    I shall curtail my stay here. Paying an annual tax of 1,500 simply to remain as a visitor with no benefits is just silly.

    We shall return to Blighty.

  9. #9
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile View Post
    if the avaricious grasping racists that recently passed legislation allowing foreigners to be charged up to 50% more than locals for health treatment repealed that disgraceful law then fewer foreigners would find themselves unable to pay their bills.
    How recent is this legislation? Afaik for the past 15+ years gov hospitals have had posters up advising farangs that they will be charged 50% extra.

    Also can't see how gov hospitals could be bilked for 500m bahts in a year, when they demand an advance deposit from farangs for any treatment that's expected to cost more than a few hundred baht.

    Lies and scammers, but tbf they have the guns.

  10. #10
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    I think there was a successful challenge to the practice of extorting farang which on analysis had no basis in law. The avaricious and racist Thai-Chinese moved quickly to get the dictatorship to pass one this year, around two months ago, as I recall.

    Some years ago the British government asked the Thai to consider allowing expat residents to pay into the Thai medical social system so that they would have a safety net which would yield a dividend. Naturally, the Thai-Chinese medical lobby kicked that into touch.

    The Thai really are a nauseating bunch of money-grubbing hypocrites when it comes to fucking over farang. At conservative estimates there are over 80,000 resident expats in Thailand who demonstrate annually resources to meet the immigration financial criteria to settle here. A modest estimate of their contribution towards GDP based on their money transfers would represent a contribution annually of, say 50 billion baht assuming each spends a minimum of 15,000 per annum. This of course does not include the purchase of property or vehicles. So, an unsubstantiated claim that evil farang are costing Thailand 500 million baht is a problem given their contribution to the Thai economy??

    God, these creeps make me puke.

  11. #11
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    I think there was a successful challenge
    Got to agree. The "collateral" damage was taken into account. The "powers that be" looked at the bigger picture. i.e. it's not the resident falang that are skipping out on medical bills - it is the tourists.

    If they require resident foreigners to maintain the ridiculous insurance policies with exorbitant cost, many exclusions and minimized payouts, as a requirement for their extensions, it is quite feasible (in fact, expected) that many foreigners will be "forced" to leave. Based on cost, age, and many being "uninsurable". The collateral damage being the Thai wives and children who will be "abandoned", and, yes, there will be many. Don't know how many but I'm certain there are many Thai households supported by falang who are NOT rich, deep pocket sugar daddies. These folk will not be able to comply with such a ridiculous requirement. And, these folk are NOT part of the problem.

    Now, the "powers that be" threw the insurance lobbyists a bone with expanding the O-X insurance requirement to include O-A's, and did shift the burden to the folk who were skipping out - the "tourists". There was a mandate for "tourist insurance" that was recently delayed/postponed/trashed because the tourist industry lobbyists challenged it as detrimental citing the "declining" tourism revenues.


    But, all set aside. The fact remains that many, many of the 80k falang residents do, in fact, support Thai families, and the collateral damage that would be inflicted on those families must be taken into account.

    And, to amplify on this - the "powers that be" do NOT give a damn about the falang residents, but do care about the Thai families they support.
    Last edited by bowie; 11-10-2019 at 12:09 PM. Reason: typo correction

  12. #12
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    As a preliminary testing of the water I hit on Aetna Thailand's website, they are on the list of approved companies, and began the process of applying for a quote for health insurance - never got further than the first field's year of birth which didn't go back further than 1954. As I said before, over 65 and you is fucked.

    Given the likelihood that this will be enforced for all expats and that the minimum policy premium will be at least 60,000 baht but more likely more, certainly for grunters over 65, and may settle around the average 100k mark, then it will become more economic to simply give up the extension in favour of a multiple entry visit visa valid for six months. The cost of two economy return flights on Emirates plus the 150 fee x 2 would still be less than the insurance costs - certainly, r/t tickets bought in the UK at less busy times, say, on a 6 monthly cycle from September/March would make it work.

    Obviously this might not suit our septic comrades but its worth considering.

  13. #13
    Thailand Expat

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    I think the sparse response to this thread illustrates quite well just how few are the number of TD posters who actually live here. Thaivisa is predictably a disturbed hornet's nest of activity on th subject.

  14. #14
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
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    ^ SA you have a most valid point concerning the makeup of participants on the Door and the lack of response. As it doesn't affect them they do not care.

    TD has 300 and declining "active" users. How the Thailand "non-participants", the flotsam and jetsam of the internet keyboard warrior world wound up here, well, TD does have considerably more in the category of free speech than most internet websites.

    ThaiVisa having the lions share of real live Thailanders does, of course, have much greater response to the mandatory insurance issue. It affects a great many more folk than the fractional small piece of the TD users pie that are affected.

    Our (the actual impacted ones) can hope, that over time, the mandatory insurance requirement (yes, I believe that eventually it will be required for all non-Thai's in the Kingdom) will be implemented in such a way that we will be grandfathered in - not expecting it to be defined as grandfathered, but, having a loophole built in (such as the loophole for how much money you must keep in the bank). i.e. enter before 21OCT98 and you only need to have THB 200K in the bank.

    IMO I do expect they, the "powers that be" will eventually require health insurance for all visitors. But, I do expect that those of us that are already here will be exempted one way or the other. Not because they care about us falang, but, because they do care about the individual Thai's we support. Face it, in the greater scheme of things our monetary contributions as a whole are minimal. To the individual Thais we support, our monetary contributions are grand.

    But, that being said, the fact remains, whatever regulatory requirements are put in place, we are legally bound to comply with.

  15. #15
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
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    Just to C&P a couple of applicable documents (both linked from TV posts)
    1) Thai PO 548/2562 amendment effective Oct 31, 2019 by PG Chakthip Chaijinda Comm Gen of Royal Thai Police
    2) Para 2.22 Criteria for Consideration of Granting an Alien's Extension of Stay in the Kingdom

    NOTE: that in para 2.22 criteria 6 requires insurance:
    "Only for an alien who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class O-A"


    Thai PO 548/2562 amendment effective Oct 31, 2019
    Insurance Requirement Raises Its Ugly Head Again-thai-po-548-2562-jpg


    Para 2.22 Criteria for Consideration
    Insurance Requirement Raises Its Ugly Head Again-thai-po-548-2562-2-22-a
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Insurance Requirement Raises Its Ugly Head Again-thai-po-548-2562-jpg   Insurance Requirement Raises Its Ugly Head Again-thai-po-548-2562-2-22-a  
    Last edited by bowie; 12-10-2019 at 04:43 PM.

  16. #16
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
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    Now, based on the above post, of concern to Foreigners permitted to stay in Thailand on a temporary basis. Us folk. The important aspect is which type of visa you initially entered Thailand on.

    I entered on a "Non Immigrant Category O" which I've been extending. As I read the PO and Para 2.22 criteria, I expect no problem or questions about insurance - but, you never know. I'll find out next month when I extend.

    If you initially entered on a "Non Immigrant Category O-A" you may have some hoops to jump through; a) get insurance, or, b) start over by changing visa category.

    Good Luck to all.

  17. #17
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    I’m just watching all this from afar. Hopefully, things will settle down before I get back.

  18. #18
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  19. #19
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    things will settle down
    Things will settle down as time passes and we see how they enforce these new criteria. Our problem(s) is/are; a) we are reading an English translation of a Thai language regulation, and, b) the interpretation and enforcement of the resolution is "at the discretion" of the IO's.

    Hopefully most folk won't be impacted. But, there is always some "damage".

  20. #20
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Things will settle down as time passes and we see how they enforce these new criteria. Our problem(s) is/are; a) we are reading an English translation of a Thai language regulation, and, b) the interpretation and enforcement of the resolution is "at the discretion" of the IO's.

    Hopefully most folk won't be impacted. But, there is always some "damage".
    Never mind long stay farangs that contribute to the economy and good of the country simply by being here, with a strong baht and fewer spending tourists one imagines our glorious leaders should be discussing how to make it easier and cheaper for farangs to spend time in their wonderland.

    Fact is, top brass often hold their positions through the ole pals act rather than merit or basic competence, and safely installed in their dachas they don't care a toss about lower level livelihoods; while this also occurs to some extent in western countries here in a more corrupt and mentally 'different' Thailand the consequences tend to be more pronounced.

    Spot on you are, regardless of the final draft and new requirements, it is as it always has and will be down to individual IO interpretation influenced by baht notes.

  21. #21
    ความรู้ลึกลับ HuangLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    I’m just watching all this from afar. Hopefully, things will settle down before I get back.
    I suspect they will.
    A usual passing fancy that is eventually adjusted or generally ignored in practice.

  22. #22
    The Fool on the Hill bowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    strong baht and fewer spending tourists one imagines our glorious leaders should be discussing how to make it easier and cheaper for farangs to spend time in their wonderland.
    Yup, amazing isn't it. TAT announces the large decline in the deep-pocket European tourists and address the decline by incentives to attempt to get more spend thrift China and India tourists.

  23. #23
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    I entered on a "Non Immigrant Category O" which I've been extending. As I read the PO and Para 2.22 criteria, I expect no problem or questions about insurance
    Nor do I as affirmed by the head man over lunch last week. As with most of these requirements enforcement and interpretation varies office to office.

    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    but, you never know
    LoS. Land of Surprises.

  24. #24
    CCBW JPPR2's Avatar
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    Unless I missed something in the documents I skimmed over, the people that will be impacted are the ones that could possibly not be insured but It appears everyone can. What I find a bit odd is that most providers will not cover folks pre existing conditions. OK. So then what? They buy a policy and still end up paying out of pocket for their current ailment? But I guess as long as they can show they have a policy, its business as usual except the individual is out the money to meet the requirement.

    I saw some premium figures by various providers and they are not that expensive annually. Preliminary premiums seem to range between 30K bht to a high of 100K bht annually. Broken down it appears worse case scenario would be about roughly 10k bht a month.

    To Bowies and others point, it will be interesting when person is denied renewal and he would be forced to leave behind his Thai wife and family and be forced to sell all his belongings, especially if the person cannot afford to move back to his home country and must exit to a neighboring country. Sad state affairs if that should truly happen. One would think at some point they would conduct interviews with cases such as those to determine the impact to the Thai spouse and subsequent family.

    As for the TD members and the lack of response to this thread here. It may just be a case that they have already voiced their concerns with the masses on the other forum and no reason to repeat it all here. Most TD'ers do not come here for information anymore.

    In the end though, this will be managed as these rules changes always have and the IO's will make the call as there is never any consistency here. Next up will be all the threads about how one person had no issues then will be the one they were denied. Same Same...
    Last edited by JPPR2; 13-10-2019 at 04:49 PM.

  25. #25
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    As I said already, several times, anyone over the age of 60, and certainly over 65, may not find a policy that will meet their needs and in many instances the premium for compulsory insurance will be nothing more than an immigration tax - the policies cover costs limited to 400,000 baht annually which is pitifully small, particularly when one considers the fucking premium represents 10% of its value and 20% for those at 65 or over, if they could even find a company prepared to indemnify them.

    One of the more stupid spokesmen for this dictatorship suggests for those who experience difficulty in finding an insurance provider should perhaps lodge a bigger deposit in order to qualify for their extension of stay although the nitwit could not express how such a measure could be quantified or regulated.

    The answer of course is that all bona fide residents should be able to join the Thai social security scheme but as I said before that might mean some Thai-Chinese will miss out on their money-grubbing.

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