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Thread: TM30

  1. #151
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    The house owner/landlord needs to report an alien within 24 hours of arriving back after a 90 day border run on a multi-entry visa.

  2. #152
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    ^ Yeah, that's how I understand it now. But what's the chances of any consequences of not doing it if I never go near an immigration office...

  3. #153
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    What about tourist staying in wife's (uk resident) house and moving around?

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luigi View Post
    The house owner/landlord needs to report an alien within 24 hours of arriving back after a 90 day border run on a multi-entry visa.
    Where does it say you have to report yourself for moving around country?

  5. #155
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    My understanding is this.
    It's the home ownner's or possessor's obligation to report any foreigner residing in the home overnight.
    Yes it is possible that the owner resides overseas - not immigration's problem. all foreigners must be reported - tourist/married/retired or other.
    The requirement is obviously somewhat impractical and so it lay dormant for sometime. It is now being brushed off and interpreted in different ways in different immigration areas.
    It would appear that some offices are uninterested, some are strict and require the owner to file. Some are only interested after a trip out of the country and some require a new form after every stay away from home.

    My feeling is that its reappearance had something to do with the "good guys in, bad guys out' campaign. Now it would appear that immigration offices around the country are seeing it as a good little money spinner.

    I personally feel that in its true sense it is totally unworkable so I am sure after a period of time, who knows how long, some form of directive will be issued on its application.
    Chang Wattana is very keen on its use at the moment so i don't see it going away completely.

    The chance of being fined if never visiting an immigration office would in my mind be very close to zero, but if living here on an extension of stay it will only be a matter of time before some fine will be forthcoming. It is possible to file the form on-line

    After the majority have complied with the regulation and therefore no longer subject to a potential fine it will fall by the wayside again as it is a lot of extra paperwork for immigration officers to handle and if little money is coming in..........

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
    Where does it say you have to report yourself for moving around country?
    Originally Posted by Dillinger (TM30)
    House owners, heads of household, landlords or managers of hotels who accommodate foreign nationals on a temporary basis who stay in the kingdom legally, must notify the local immigration authorities within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the foreign national."

    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
    Where does it say you have to report yourself for moving around country?
    I was trying to find the relevant item in the most recent immigration law/police order but I can't spend all night searching.
    I did however find this link in an old copy of the Bangkok Post

    https://www.bangkokpost.com/business...gh-with-guests.

    I will provide the whole article in the next post

  8. #158
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    Bangkok Post June 24 2019

    Manyforeigners were shocked by the 25 March 2019 enforcement of the TM30regulations requiring reporting of location of stay of foreignersvisiting, living or working in Thailand. Even more will get theirshock when they learn of the consequences of failure to report, inmost cases knowing nothing about the regulatory enforcement.

    Thebasic rule is that the owner or lease holder of any premises inThailand must report the presence of any foreigner who staysovernight at their premises, within 24 hours of the foreigner’sarrival. Failure to report can mean a fine of Baht 800 to 2,000against the premises owner or lease holder (Baht 10,000 if a hotel)along with refusal by the Immigration Department to processapplications for visa or work permit issue or renewals by theforeigner concerned.
    Isthe Regulation Imposition really so shocking?

    TheImmigration Department has long had the power and duty to monitor thepresence of foreigners on Thailand territory.

    Severalcountries are much stricter than Thailand in this respect, notablyVietnam, which not only monitors where its foreign visitors arestaying, but also limits their choice of stay location, especially inprivate homes and non-authorised lodgings for foreigners.

    Withincreasing risks of terrorism, Thailand has come to realise that someforeign criminals have been able to make extended stays in-country,often renting houses or apartments for long-term stays.

    Whomust be reported by TM30?

    Theoretically,all foreigners are required to be reported within 24 hours of arrivalat a premises in Thailand. However at the present time, there aresome exceptions.

    Required to be reported are the following:


    • All registered hotels have routinely reported their guests within 24 hours of arrival, with copies of passports and personal details;
    • Foreigners staying at private houses, condominiums and private apartments that are not hotels, have been escaping registration. These establishments welcome guests, without reporting either to Immigration or to the Revenue Department. Both organisations are seeking to crack down on such evasions, so as to be able to collect data but also tax on income received. Registration is now required on each entry into Thailand;
    • Retirees on annual retirement visas, researchers and students on relevant visas are all required to be registered each time they enter Thailand;
    • Work permit holders must be registered on each arrival in Thailand and will need to present their TM30 registration receipts as part of their work permit applications, approvals and renewals.

    Whoneed not be reported?

    Thereare some exceptions to the registration requirements, although thesemay become subject to modification and therefore need to be monitoredin order to avoid becoming liable to fines for late ornon-registration.

    These exceptions include:


    • Permanent residents of Thailand are not required to be registered either on their arrivals or under the Standard 90 day reporting process. Permanent residence used to be a regular process for those staying for extended periods in Thailand. Approvals for permanent residence are nowadays becoming rare privileges;
    • Those with diplomatic status are already registered and closely monitored by the relevant authorities. Some live on diplomatic premises while others stay in alternative accommodation but are already duly registered. The same applies to international civil servants and visiting official technical experts;
    • Special categories of work permit holders are also reported to be exempt from registration. These individuals are those whose work permits are handled by the “One-Stop Service Center” at Chamchuri Square, designed for Board of Investment privilege holders; Smart visa holders, and also some companies with large capitalisation.
    • This is a somewhat opaque category of registration exemption. If one can gain admission to this exclusive club, one can save a lot of trouble to one’s landlord, but the latter will need more than word-of-mouth reassurance that there is no need to register and therefore avoid fines;
    • Foreign personal owners of property titles have also been reported to be exempt. Since foreigners are not allowed to own land title deeds, these property owners will be condominium owners (not lease holders). Such foreign individuals will already be registered on house registration books (“tabien bahn”) and mostly be holders of retirement visas, or stay permits linked to work permits. Some foreigners have acquired condominiums in the name of a spouse or partner, in which case that person is required to register the foreigner in the capacity of property owner host. The exemption of condominium owners is challenged by some legal advisors. Such owners need to re-confirm their exemptions directly with Immigration authorities.

    Howto register: a bureaucrat’s delight



    Bureaucratslove paperwork. Most of all they love to plough through a copiousdossier and find just one key document lacking. That enables them toreject the application. This may mean rejection of an applicationfiled within 24 hours and result in a fine.

    The documents thatan applicant should present are the following:


    • Copy of passport information page relating to the foreigner. This can be a copy but should be signed by the passport holder and dated;
    • Copy of the page showing the arrival stamp placed on the passport at the time of arrival of the foreigner. This needs to be dated not longer than 24 hours before reporting. However if the foreigner arrives on a Friday night , Saturday or Sunday, an application may be lodged on the following Monday. If that Monday happens to be a public holiday, the next day Tuesday may be acceptable. Likewise, public holidays allow for time limit extensions.

    Butwhat if the foreigner stayed overnight at a hotel, and then moves onto stay, for example, with friends, who are obliged to register theirguest?

    Some evidence of the previous registration shouldbe available and submitted as part of the application. Where aforeigner has stayed in other accommodation but has not beenregistered, then moves to a new location which proceeds to registerthe foreigner, the owner, lessor or host may be subject to a fine;


    • The departure portion of the arrival/departure card submitted to Immigration on arrival should also be submitted for endorsement as evidence of correct submission of a TM30 declaration.
    • Documents to be submitted in respect of the owner or lessor are complex and voluminous, including the following:
    • A copy of the title deed of the property where the foreigner stays may be required although this is not always demanded;
    • A copy of the purchase and sale agreement relating to the property may be required as a substitute for the title deed;
    • If a company is the owner of the property where the foreigner resides, a copy of the company affidavit (“nang sue rab rong”) is required;
    • A power of attorney authorising the person representing the company is required;
    • A personal identification of the power of attorney holder is required, usually an Identity Card.

    Whereto register

    Thereare three possibilities for registration, as follows:

    • The Immigration Department, Chaeng Wattana for Bangkok, or upcountry Immigration offices are the normal locations for registration.
    • The Change Wattana office has two counters for TM30 registration, accommodating at
    • least 300 applicants per day, each registering one or more individuals;
    • On-line registration is permitted, with copies of all required documents. On-line applicants will need to register and obtain a code number in advance;
    • Application by registered post is permitted.

    Thismust also be performed within 24 hours of arrival, with copies of alldocuments.

    If the registration is performed more than 24 hoursafter arrival, and a fine is therefore payable, then the registrationmust be performed in person by the owner, lessor or power of attorneyholder so that the fine can be paid and a receipt issued.

    Conclusions

    Therequirements for registration are more complex than the regular hotelregistration process. Many property owners will inevitably bereluctant to welcome foreigners as guests especially for short-termstopovers. Will TM30 registration be observed or simply ignored?Foreigners are not presently asked on departure for evidence of TM30registration. If they do not overstay or seek extension to theirvisas, foreigners are likely to avoid detection. If, however,foreigners need to approach the Immigration Department, they may findthat their requests are refused pending TM30 registration,potentially with evidence of fine payment. There are reports that thenew system is under review and may be modified, although completeabolition is unlikely.

    Author:Christopher F. Bruton, Executive Director, DataconsultLtd, chris@dataconsult.co.th.Dataconsult’s Thailand Regional Forum provides seminars andextensive documentation to update business on future trends inThailand and in the Mekong Region.

  9. #159
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
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    Butterfly I have to agree with everything you say on this matter of the TM 30. Especially this paragraph below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    you guys have been manipulated like poor submissive locals to accept such craps from the authorities. It's clear they don't want you here. Why would you want to stay?
    Why do I accept their shit? Because the last thing I want to do is return to the UK. I have 3 kids to think of and that's why I jump when I have to. If it were not for the kids I'd probably walked years ago. Inconsiderate bastards.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack meoff View Post
    would think this is the norm for 90% off expats living in Thailand.
    If what you say is true then the posts may be more useful than I suspected, I did think of starting a thread on the subject but thought it would be of little interest

    Possibly I should have limited my assumption to the "more vocal" posters here on TD

    They seem to have "invested" in building, renting or buying one or more Thai properties or built a home for their wives and families if working outside Thailand

    Which I also assume they have "protected" by it being in their own name and hence have a yellow house book

    As a landlord of rented properties how often do the landlords, here on TD, check who is "staying" in their properties?
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Which I also assume they have "protected" by it being in their own name and hence have a yellow house book
    OhOh are you getting a little mixed up regarding the 'Yellow Book'?

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic View Post
    OhOh are you getting a little mixed up
    It wouldn't be the first time

    I was under the impression a foreigner was "awarded" a yellow "house book" as opposed to the blue house book the local receive

  13. #163
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    Blue book/Yellow book have nothing to do with ownership only residency.
    They provide a list of who is officially resident at a particular address

  14. #164
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    It seems there is a demand for clarity on the yellow/blue house book

    So as not to disrupt this thread on TM 30 issues I will move this to the, "The Yellow House Book" thread already established

    Thank you all who commented on this topic here
    Last edited by OhOh; 05-08-2019 at 09:42 AM.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luigi View Post
    The house owner/landlord needs to report an alien within 24 hours of arriving back after a 90 day border run on a multi-entry visa.
    Close:
    A landlord needs report ANY and every non thai, ( tourist included) stayng at their residence, hotel, gh,spare room, garage... whenever they check in.

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phuketrichard View Post
    whenever they check in.
    I thought it only applies if they stay more than 24 hours?

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luigi View Post
    You're as clueless about immigration rules as you are about health and fitness.
    Weren't you talking about moving here the other day... ?



    Quote Originally Posted by Happy As Larry View Post
    Severalcountries are much stricter than Thailand in this respect, notablyVietnam, which not only monitors where its foreign visitors arestaying, but also limits their choice of stay location, especially inprivate homes and non-authorised lodgings for foreigners.

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
    “House owners, heads of household, landlords or managers of hotels who accommodate foreign nationals on a temporary basis who stay in the kingdom legally, must notify the local immigration authorities within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the foreign national."
    My missus has accomodated me on a full time basis in her house for the last 18 years so I guess she doesn't have to make a report of me staying there.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    My missus has accomodated me on a full time basis in her house for the last 18 years so I guess she doesn't have to make a report of me staying there.
    As of recently she does. My missus hadn't registered me in nearly 14 years but got fined 500 baht for something she never knew was required of her.

  20. #170
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    Section 37

    2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.
    3. Shall notify the police official of the local police station where such alien resides, within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival. In the case of change in residence in which new residence is not located the same area with the former police stations , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival.
    Last edited by Pragmatic; 05-08-2019 at 11:22 AM.

  21. #171
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    As I read that it says if I don't stay at the address notified to them on arrival in Thailand then I have 24 hours to do so. And only then do you need to do a TM 30. That's how I see it. Why notify IO within 24 hours of notifying them already upon arrival? Stupid really.
    Last edited by Pragmatic; 05-08-2019 at 11:26 AM.

  22. #172
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    Does a farang woman married to a Thai male have to report? We all know she doesn't have to show finances to stay here.

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic View Post
    Does a farang woman married to a Thai male have to report? We all know she doesn't have to show finances to stay here.
    Forget it mate, you'd never pull it off.

















  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
    Forget it mate, you'd never pull it off.
    Wrong hat do ya think?

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phuketrichard View Post
    Close:
    A landlord needs report ANY and every non thai, ( tourist included) stayng at their residence, hotel, gh,spare room, garage... whenever they check in.
    Yes, it was in response to someone doing a 90 day border run.

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