Thread: New rules?

Did extension today, last year saw the same woman officer and sat at the same desks with the same info. Then it was in and out in under 20 mins, re entry permit as well. Things have moved on a bit this year, but they did start to ask for photo copies for a 90 day report a few months ago though.

Today first hurdle was all have to re register their address with proof. Did this 2 years ago providing blue book mrs ID etc etc, last year they gave me a certificate of residence which I had, and I only did a 90 day report 3 weeks ago, all at the present address- not good enough! Another form to add to the mountain of paper work at the bottom of the stairs (where does it end up?) more photo copies and yet another useless receipt. The usual nosy questions, do you speak Thai, how long you stay Thailand, why you stay here and what does your wife do.

Back downstairs officer not happy going through every stamp and page in the passport- needs every page photo copying from outside at 3 baht a go. Ok done that after lining up behind khon Mayamar, er 'book bank' no good have yesterday date, never a problem any other year, send mrs off to bank to deposit 100 baht. Bank letter have date two days ago, that's normal these days as they will not give the day you go in date unless late in the afternoon. The 'rules' say letter must not be more than one week old, but they hate having the rules quoted to them.

Whew one and a half hours this year of pissing about. Decide on the re entry permit as that can't have changed- but it has. Have to go in the back room past another mountain of paperwork to have all my details entered on a data base, er which they then print out, and also have 2 cam pics taken, no explanation of course.

To be fair the staff all looked glum and it can't be much fun for them all these new rules, if that's what they are. If you are off for an extension soon, better beware. What next year 4k charge and DNA samples? At least they still have last year Christmas decorations up, or is it this years up early?

Where did you do this dragonfly?

samut prakan, normally laid back and no problems, today seemed like crack down time.

Yeah to bloke upstairs is OK, don't mind having a chat with him. Worst ever was a woman who I saw there for first extension years ago. Tried her best to find a fault, then said too early come back in two weeks (not early). As leaving she said they did not really do extensions there and go to Suan Phlu! When I asked why they have a sign about extensions, why they have the forms and why she did not mention it before she went ape, told my mrs she did not know how she could live with somebody too stupid to understand the rules. In a couple of weeks we moved anyway into Bkk.

In any normal country of course she should have been in trouble for refusing to do her job. Found out later she was a notorious falang hater and was probably looking for a bribe, not from me I would rather pack up and go home than pay bribes.

On a side note they are planning a cable car across the river there, even the mrs said no way would she be going up in that, boat 3.5 baht every 5 mins anyway. The Samut Prakan vanity tower is making slow progress.

Originally Posted by Dragonfly94

samut prakan

Sounds the shits of a place. I'll be sure to avoid it.

Samut Prakan does have it's merits such as their replica of Big ben and the airport!

Originally Posted by Dragonfly94

Ok done that after lining up behind khon Mayamar,

Ouch, that must have really hurt, having to queue behind a Burmese. Didnt they realise that you are farang, didnt they notice you are special ?

I thought Samut Prakan recently went thru a "shake up" of top brass for something or other?

For a long time they were near the top of the short list as far as the most un-user friendly immigrations offices in the country!

If you're to believe "mega-blogger" Richard Barrow that office is running like a well oiled machine.

Chaengwattana in Bangkok has needed the bank book updated showing the balance on the date you're applying for the extension for a long time, so that's nothing new..

What was that "register your address" form? Was it this TM.30?
NOTIFICATION FROM FOR HOUSE-MASTER WHERE ALIEN HAS STAYED

At least in Bangkok the Cambodians, Laotians and Burmese have their own immigrations offices.

You should have worn this shirt;

I did notice they were not wearing uniforms, just T shirts with a immi badge. The boss at the back was a bit subdued. He used to bark out orders and the officers often ignored him anyway. No not TM30 a form with no number, when last arrived, card number address, who else lives there, house book, all the stuff they had 2x before. I only mentioned the Burmese as often there are loads there, far more than falang.

This is NOT on topic about the O/P and the changes they experienced BUT perhaps you people will find it marginally interesting never the less (or not)..

I was at Thai Immigrations out at Chaengwattana last week with an acquaintance and eavesdropping like I do at the various areas..

There were two foreigners in the queue right ahead of us who were getting yearly extensions of stay based on being over 50 (retirement).. BOTH of them got denied and kicked back for not having their lease agreement with them.. Now this happened despite the fact these people already had the receipt of alien in residence (TM.30) AND their receipt of 90 day reporting in their passports, plus neither was applying for their first year's extension, they'd had several already.

It totally freaked me out because the person I was with didn't have his lease/rental contract either.. However, we weren't even asked for it.

Now in the immigrations officers defense, those two guys were pretty confrontational with the officer when they were tryin' to get their extensions. In fact they were so loud I had no problem hearin' them argue with the officer.. It could have been a typical thai โชว์เพาว์ (show power) "I can make you hoop jump because I wear a uniform" sort of muscle flex because those guys were acting like self-entitled fuck-tards, I dunno.

Just wanted to pass it along, you know what they say "foreskinned is forearmed" or something like that. . .

I'm surprised the officer got away that stunt. Production of a lease agreement is not in any of the requirements in order to qualify for a retirement extension as set out in the various police orders nor is it published in any immigration website. They should have summoned the captain and refused to leave.

Rubbing these guys up the wrong way is obviously not something to aim for but that doesn't mean they have carte blanche to enact some punishment for not showing the right amount of humility in the presence of them.

Originally Posted by toddaniels

Now in the immigrations officers defense, those two guys were pretty confrontational with the officer when they were tryin' to get their extensions.

Chicken egg thing. If they were confrontatioal before asked for the lease then they got what would be expected under the fine print rule. "These docs are required or others as the officer may require."

Assuming they didn't get the extension reckon they should get a lawyer.

Originally Posted by toddaniels

BOTH of them got denied and kicked back for not having their lease agreement with them.

I'm guessing it was the "L" queue with Aoijoy as the boss. She's not only asked that of me, but also insisted on having the originals, meaning the next time I apply, I'll need to get another set off the landlord.

That bank letter should have been good, as the regs state within the last 7 days. Problem is every official in this country seems to change requirements and make things up as they go.

CSFFan; dunno who "Aoijoy" is.. The gurls who run that section have 3 stripes on their uniforms and their ranks are all ร.ต.อ - ร้อยตำรวจเอก. The one who's been there the longest has a first name of Kanokrak (กนกรักษ์)


Those guys NEVER got to the gurls who sign off on extensions once they're issued (who sit in the back corners), they were ambushed by the rank-n-file paper pushers at the 'regular desks; where we turn in our paperwork and get our pic taken. Seeing as I was out at Immigrations most of the day, I did see one of the guys come back with his lease AND get his extension of stay too. But he was NOT a happy camper...

Believe me I HATE with a passion the free reign immigrations officers have in the offices scattered around the kingdom in making us hoop jump just because they can. It is easily the top 'o the list as far as pet peeves here dealing with thai officialdom..

In only slightly related news;
A new law comes into effect starting July 17th. It's called the Thai licensing facilitation act. In essence it covers every government office which issues licenses, (called ใบอนุญาต) or a stamps of permission (called ตราอนุญาต).

The government offices have to have a book made up outlining the steps, the documents, the procedure etc that people seeking permission (ผู้ขออนุญาต) can see. IF a person applying does not meet the criteria they have to be issued a written denial stating what was wrong, how to correct it etc. It also says, every office of theirs country-wide has to do it the same way and they cannot ask for any additional documents NOT already outlined in the manual they have to make up. There is also a defined appeals process where a person who is denied but feels they shouldn't have been can follow.

In regards to immigrations it'd hafta be a step by step process of visa extensions, and what documents are required for each extension how long an official document is valid (bank letter, embassy letter, notary etc), what copies are needed.

When I took the thai version out to immigrations the other week and showed it to the "gang" upstairs, at first they said it didn't cover them. This made me ask if they were ข้าราชการ (government/civil servants)? Then I asked them if every year to get another extension of stay did I ขออนุญาต? Then I asked fter that did they give me a ตราอนุญาต? They hemmed and hawed, but finally admitted the new law "might" cover them too. It rattled their cage so much that they copied the thai version of the law I'd printed off the Royal Gazette's website..

It would appear offices have 6 months to come into compliance with this once it starts. However, I tried to sell Immigrations on the fact if they manned up did it, and made the requirements universal no matter if I'm in Hat Yai or Chaing Rai, they'd be heroes insteada zeroes.. <- Dunno if they bought into that one..

In hindsight this could be a double edged sword. They might decide to adopt the documents needed in of those b/s immigration fiefdoms which try to nickel/dime foreigners to death with required documents..

Dunno, but it's something to consider.. So, if in the next 6-8 months you see the required documents for extensions of stay suddenly become exponentially larger, you can blame me. Sorry about that...

Hell will freeze over before each office operates the published rules according to a national standard.

They simply haven't the intelligence, ability or integrity and even if they wanted to implement a national operating plan they couldn't organise it.

There are very good reasons why Thailand is such a mess.

They make up the rules as they go along.

When they make surprise requests asking for extra documentation it usually means they are fishing for extra fees in order to circumvent those requests and it is up to the applicant to either offer those fees or bite their tongue and meet with the new demands.

Last year my wife was helping a Norwegian couple extend/change/re-instate their retirement visa after they had mistakenly left the country without obtaining a re entry permit, the immigration officer wanted a ton of paperwork that would have necessitated this elderly couple, one of whom was in a wheelchair after breaking a leg on their trip, travelling to Bangkok from Hua Hin to verify and translate passports and bank accounts and residence.

He suggested that by paying a facilitation fee this journey and all of the extra paperwork could be avoided. The fee was 15,000b per passport.

When my wife asked why it was so much, the officer told her in all seriousness that thanks to the coup and the army takeover, new rules of procedure had been introduced and opportunities for "extra fees" were harder to justify would probably not exist at all in the near future and therefore they had to make hay whilst the sun was still shining.

Depending on the mood of the officer, they can always find or make up some error or discrepancy in ones paperwork and will fish for money to overlook it.

Most immigration offices will have intermediaries sitting outside at desks, Im not sure if they are civil servants or not, but they can be very useful go betweens and for small fees most problems can be solved, often without the applicant even having to step inside the office and talking to the immigration officer.

This is Thailand, and the nature of the system is that it is there to be worked. Involving lawyers, throwing tantrums, quoting the law and demanding to see the boss can often just make the situation worse.

Hua Hin has a history of this chicanery and their boss is an idiot. However, they are not immune to the consequences of their thievery.

If I were subjected to the extortion meted out to The Norwegians I would have asked to see the ranking officer and politely requested that the officer repeat his demands in from of him. If he were to confirm that the practice was official policy I would then politely explain that I would be contacting Bangkok for assurances that this was indeed national policy and condoned by the government. Given the nexus that still exists between the Immigration police and Thaivisa, I would also explain that such a policy should be given prominence and I would ensure they got the publicity they deserved. Names of the officers concerned and the commanding General would of course be given.

Thai are lazy and do not like fuss, especially if the outcome may be in doubt. Most times they'll give up their little scams when they know it isn't going to happen without a fight.

If I were subjected to the extortion meted out to The Norwegians I would have asked to see the ranking officer and politely requested that the officer repeat his demands in from of him. If he were to confirm that the practice was official policy I would then politely explain that I would be contacting Bangkok for assurances that this was indeed national policy and condoned by the government. Given the nexus that still exists between the Immigration police and Thaivisa, I would also explain that such a policy should be given prominence and I would ensure they got the publicity they deserved. Names of the officers concerned and the commanding General would of course be given.

I think Monty Python once did a sketch like that.

^ the sausage would have been caressed , before ,during and after the typing of the post

Originally Posted by toddaniels

they copied the thai version of the law I'd printed off the Royal Gazette's website..

did you charge them 3 baht ?

taxexile; that is a total crock of shite and I'da called the 1111 government hotline while I was sittin' in front of that officer!

In hindsight: unless I'm mistaken foreigners can't go from a 30 day visa exempt stamp to a single entry 90 day Non-O and then to a yearly extension based on being over 50 in Hua Hin anymore. Christ, even Chiang Mai and Jomtien can't do it, it's gotta be done in Bangkok..

Even here IN Bangkok it's NOT the apply and get it issued on the spot thing it once was. You need 14 days left on either your visa exempt entry or your tourist visa. You apply for a Non-O 90 day single entry based on what ever reason you're using to get a year extension for. It goes under review for 2 weeks (hence the need for 14 days permission to stay remaining), then you go back and they stamp a 90 day Non-O visa, the word USED and a new permission to stay stamp into your passport. Two months later you go back and apply for the year at what every immigrations office serves where you live..

And before the nay-sayers slither out from under their rocks and say it can't be done.. Here's a Non-O visa issued at Chaengwattana and the new 90 day permission to stay until stamp..

If you notice (or not) this one was for ใช้ชีวิตบั้นปลาย <- live out the end of your life for being over 50 y/o. Called "retirement" by every tom, dick & somchai..

Like I said, it's total bullshit that they try it and even worse that foreigners let them get away with it. . .

And now for something completely different..

I made this shirt up and in breaking from my tradition of wearing a KISS t-shirt every day wore it to immigrations last week;

It uses Prayuth's thai nickname บิ๊กตู่ and says "Big Do says stop corruption". Got a LOT of comments, and sidelong glances from the thais in uniform and the rank-n-file ones too.

Comin' home a thai guy on my Soi wanted it, so I gave it to him.. Lemme know if you want one, lol...

todd danielz

unless I'm mistaken foreigners can't go from a 30 day visa exempt stamp to a single entry 90 day Non-O and then to a yearly extension based on being over 50 in Hua Hin anymore. Christ, even Chiang Mai and Jomtien can't do it, it's gotta be done in Bangkok..

thats what they told the norwegian couple, you have got to go to bangkok immigration, but we can do it here for a consideration of 15000b, which is what they did.

it was done in one day, 30 day visa exempt tourist to 12 month stay based on retirement. no bank deposit /proof of income statements, no other documentation, they used the figures from the previous years application that they had on their records i guess.


we received a phone call from immig. the next day and went to pick up the passports. i was impressed.

the 15000 they paid was less than the cost of the two or three day trip to bangkok with all the associated hotel costs, food costs, taxi fares, visa fees,document translation and verification fees, getting a new set of income verification documents from norway and the general disruption to the lives to two elderly people, one in a wheelchair.

they would have been stupid not to have taken the offer.

i want one !

Really, that shirt got mixed reviews from the thais..

Some thought it was good, really good, especially the rank-n-file thais who face some sort of corruption/extortion in one form or another almost every day doin' stuff.

Most of the immigration workers were on the fence about it, but some were really down right confrontational. Asking what business was it of mine and why I cared? When I said, "You know good and well that corruption's not fair, it's against the law AND Prayuth said to stop it too", they let it go. They sure weren't lining up to get a shirt from me though.

Maybe if I screened a couple stripes on the shoulders like rank insignias, added set of jump wings, plus wore a piece of red of string looped around my arm it'd help ease them into accepting the message.

BTW: just what the fcuk is it with immigrations, and in fact almost every police officer I know, wearin' a pin with jump wings? Is it like "extra credit" or just another piece of crap to wear on their uniform so they seem important?

Totally off topic: I'm just getting a dark blue t-shirt made up now with the wording on the shirts that the prisoners on work release wear here in Bangkok. Those are the guys you see cleaning out the sewers with those thick ropes where they pull the bucket thru the pipes from man-hole to man-hole.. I thought it'd be good for a laugh on the next trip to immigrations.. Or possibly not..