Thread: Thousands to occupy Wall Street in protest

It's hard to believe that Republicans are cheering this $7.7 trillion debt.

Originally Posted by walkabout

Certainly they make up their own bank - 312 baht starting capital. If successful, theyd be just another bankers.

A credit union doesn't have shareholders or work for profit and are not considered banks. There are many small credit unions in America now.

BTW are you now on a bender?

^
Let's get back to those subsidized student loans, shall we?

Originally Posted by misskit

Originally Posted by misskit

The chancellor did not order them removed, the campus police chief did.

Misspoken on my part. The chancellor ordered the students tents removed.

Here is an interview with the chancellor in which she says the police defied her orders.

(snip)"We told the police to remove the tents or the equipment," she told the paper. "We told them very specifically to do it peacefully, and if there were too many of them, not to do it, if the students were aggressive, not to do it. And then we told them we also do not want to have another Berkeley."
UC Davis chancellor: Police defied my orders by using pepper spray - latimes.com

Doing a bit of hair splitting there misskit...
I saw the Chancellor defending herself on TV. She regretted what happened (stated with suitable sincerity and emotion) She was in the shit of course so naturally she had to back peddle a bit.

Regardless of who said exactly what to whom.....the bottom line is that the students provoked the police into far more forceful actions than was intended.
They instigated the confrontation with cops who were just trying to do their job...no more...no less. We see this kind of thing all the time. The "protesters" will go to extraordinary lengths to get something on Utube. They tried to make one cop into some kind of Nazi war criminal because he doused a bunch of obstructionist kids with diluted pepper spray.....after he and several others had made every reasonable attempt to get them ot move. They were not even trying to end the protest....they were just asking them to stop blocking a road or something.

They wanted this.....they want their 15 mins of fame.... and some hero worship form their peers who are content to just chant meaningless slogans.

Originally Posted by koman

Regardless of who said exactly what to whom.....the bottom line is that the students provoked the police into far more forceful actions than was intended.

OK, let's say they provoked the cops as protesters have been known to do. The cops should have been smart enough to figure that out and gone on their way instead of falling into the trap of pepper spraying students who were nonviolently protesting.

I know police put up with a lot of bad behavior from the public but many police have their own issues with power and join the force to exercise power over other people.

An investigation is taking place into what happened. Wonder if Pike is at fault and if this is a pattern for him.

I'm walking on air right now! Boxer really made my day, and it's still early.

Check out what he posted over in another thread
(permalink)

...you'll also find it top post in the quote box below, where I've copied over our so-far exchange. I don't want to count my chickens before they're hatched, but I can't help getting excited that a breakthrough to Boxer's mind-enslaved world may be imminent! I simply can't wait for his reply...

Originally Posted by HansuMan

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Never been a fan of the Patriot Act or any of the B.S. that came out of the aftermath of 9/11. They all (both partys) went waaaay over the top.

WOW BOXER!!

You know I can barely describe how elated I am to see you express reservations about the over-the-top outcomes of 9/11, as enabled by both "the LEFT" and "the RIGHT" !!

It never did quite smell right, did it Boxer, that the 1500 page "USA Patriot Act" was already written prior to 9/11, and just waiting in the wings for some "catastophic and catalyzing event" to get rubber stamped by congress & GWB to become official police-state law-- and then along came 9/11 and viola!

It appears there's ample evidence to suspect that the "terrorist attacks" of 9/11 were perhaps, ahem, not quite what we were told, wouldn't you say, Boxer? .

So I know I've asked you in other threads for your opinion of the few items below, but you never obliged. So here I'll take this opportunity to ask again,

Originally Posted by HansuMan

Now tell me this Boon, have you seen this story covered on your "left vs right" US/Western media anywhere?
[...]
how about this story,



and what about this story?

9/11 and Israel: Alan Sabrosky’s Shocking Press TV Interview




In your "LEFT vs RIGHT" paradigm Boon, which "side" of that model accounts for "the media's" (both "left" AND "right") conspicuous omission of the above 3 stories??

You see Boxer, I view the reticence you've smartly expressed above about the over-the-top outcomes of 9/11, as enabled by both "the LEFT" and "the RIGHT"--- as a bit of a cry for help. Despite the know-it-all persona you generally labor so hard to project here at TD; the honorable paleo-conservative inside you is desperately seeking answers and TRUTH.

Consider HansuMan, here to help you, Boxer.

Lookie what we have here! The definitive Occupier Poster Chick!



"She’s perfect. Miley Cyrus, Hollywood’s perpetually half-dressed wild child with an insatiable appetite for attention, jumped in front of the Occupy Wall Street bandwagon this week. The young Disney mogul unveiled a YouTube anthem hailing the aimless, anti-capitalist protesters. Smells like opportunistic teen queen spirit."

Heh, not everyone associated the the 'Occupiers' is happy about Hollywood's intrusion into their 'movement' tho:

“This is disgusting. Another celebrity cashing in on the Occupy movement for their own profit. First (rapper) Jay-Z selling T-shirts and giving no money to the movement and now this. It might be different if she was giving all the profits from this song to the movement, but she’s keeping all of it for herself. I am an active member of Occupy — and on behalf of the movement I would like to say f**k you Miley Cyrus and f**k you Jay-Z. You are blood-sucking scum!”

These Mega-Naive Loons just can't understand that you reap what you sow.

"In so many ways, Miley and the Occu-mob are a match made in heaven. Vacuous. Hypocritical. Entitled. Vain. Nihilist. Exhibitionist. Coddled. Forever adolescent, treating life like an endless “Party in the U.S.A.,” and demanding that everyone else pay for it."

Indeed...

Source

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

^
Hey HM! Re-posting the same old tired shit over and over. As they say, yer one who's definitely stuck on stupid. A few cans short of a six pack.

As I've mentioned before, there's a Conspiracy Thread on this here forum where all the Loons are posting their whacked-out theories on how everything from the Jewish Mafia responsible for 9/11 to JFK's demise.

Re: "same old tired shit", looks like you've opted for RULE #10:

10. Associate opponent charges with old news. A derivative of the straw man usually, in any large-scale matter of high visibility, someone will make charges early on which can be or were already easily dealt with. Where it can be foreseen, have your own side raise a straw man issue and have it dealt with early on as part of the initial contingency plans. Subsequent charges, regardless of validity or new ground uncovered, can usually them be associated with the original charge and dismissed as simply being a rehash without need to address current issues -- so much the better where the opponent is or was involved with the original source.

If you would finally simply address the issues presented to you Boxer, rather than bobbing weaving & evading them, perhaps you wouldn't find yourself so tired of being re-asked? And here's a crazy thought- perhaps you would actually learn something new!

Re: "there's a Conspiracy Thread on this here forum where all the Loons are posting their whacked-out theories" - Given that you're evidently one of those loons who subscribes to this whacked out conspiracy theory re 9/11:



... perhaps it is you and your kind who need to be sequestered into a special subforum, where you could spew your same old tired "scary mooslems did 9/11" conspiracy shit, and the reality-based community wouldn't need to hear your incessant tin foil hat nut job rantings?

Originally Posted by HansuMan

... perhaps it is you and your kind who need to be sequestered into a special subforum, where you could spew your same old tired "scary mooslems did 9/11" conspiracy shit,

Well, it sure weren't Abbot & Costollo taking orders from UBL was it?

...almost fergot it were that other Moooslime KSM who done spilled the beans, eh?

Back to yer mutterings it were them Jeeeews, HM. btw, the girlfriend really calls you that?

Bootard;

This is for boontard..

^Would love to see the entire memo. I hope this Lutz memo gets into the mainstream news quickly and we see backlash.

Republicans scared to death of OWS. Oh yes.

Luntz offered tips on how Republicans could discuss the grievances of the Occupiers, and help the governors better handle all these new questions from constituents about "income inequality" and "paying your fair share."
Yahoo News sat in on the session, and counted 10 do's and don'ts from Luntz covering how Republicans should fight back by changing the way they discuss the movement.

1. Don't say 'capitalism.'
"I'm trying to get that word removed and we're replacing it with either 'economic freedom' or 'free market,' " Luntz said. "The public . . . still prefers capitalism to socialism, but they think capitalism is immoral. And if we're seen as defenders of quote, Wall Street, end quote, we've got a problem."

2. Don't say that the government 'taxes the rich.' Instead, tell them that the government 'takes from the rich.'
"If you talk about raising taxes on the rich," the public responds favorably, Luntz cautioned. But [at]"if you talk about government taking the money from hardworking Americans, the public says no. Taxing, the public will say yes."

3. Republicans should forget about winning the battle over the 'middle class.' Call them 'hardworking taxpayers.'
"They cannot win if the fight is on hardworking taxpayers. We can say we defend the 'middle class' and the public will say, I'm not sure about that. But defending 'hardworking taxpayers' and Republicans have the advantage."

4. Don't talk about 'jobs.' Talk about 'careers.'
"Everyone in this room talks about 'jobs,'" Luntz said. "Watch this."
He then asked everyone to raise their hand if they want a "job." Few hands went up. Then he asked who wants a "career." Almost every hand was raised.
"So why are we talking about jobs?"

5. Don't say 'government spending.' Call it 'waste.'
"It's not about 'government spending.' It's about 'waste.' That's what makes people angry."

6. Don't ever say you're willing to 'compromise.'
"If you talk about 'compromise,' they'll say you're selling out. Your side doesn't want you to 'compromise.' What you use in that to replace it with is 'cooperation.' It means the same thing. But cooperation means you stick to your principles but still get the job done. Compromise says that you're selling out those principles."

7. The three most important words you can say to an Occupier: 'I get it.'
"First off, here are three words for you all: 'I get it.' . . . 'I get that you're angry. I get that you've seen inequality. I get that you want to fix the system."
Then, he instructed, offer Republican solutions to the problem.

8. Out: 'Entrepreneur.' In: 'Job creator.'
Use the phrases "small business owners" and "job creators" instead of "entrepreneurs" and "innovators."

9. Don't ever ask anyone to 'sacrifice.'
"There isn't an American today in November of 2011 who doesn't think they've already sacrificed. If you tell them you want them to 'sacrifice,' they're going to be be pretty angry at you. You talk about how 'we're all in this together.' We either succeed together or we fail together."

10. Always blame Washington.
Tell them, "You shouldn't be occupying Wall Street, you should be occupying Washington. You should occupy the White House because it's the policies over the past few years that have created this problem."

BONUS:
Don't say 'bonus!'
Luntz advised that if they give their employees an income boost during the holiday season, they should never refer to it as a "bonus."
"If you give out a bonus at a time of financial hardship, you're going to make people angry. It's 'pay for performance.'"
How Republicans are being taught to talk about Occupy Wall Street | The Ticket - Yahoo! News

^huge! This is a massive breakdown for the rightwing sickos like boontard.

Forgot to include Frank Lutz's quote.


"I'm so scared of this anti-Wall Street effort. I'm frightened to death," said Frank Luntz, a Republican strategist and one of the nation's foremost experts on crafting the perfect political message. "They're having an impact on what the American people think of capitalism."

Originally Posted by bsnub

^huge! This is a massive breakdown for the rightwing sickos like boontard.

Pray tell us what that means exactly? This Republican "strategist" is talking about samantics and rhetoric to counter the samantics and rhetoric of the OWS movement....that's all. Anyone who has ever attended a "how to deal with the media" seminar knows this kind of shit inside out and backwards.

He is likely just tuning up the faithful for the upcoming election campaigns. Exact phraseology can be important in getting your point across. Of course the Republican right wing is going to sense a need to deal with this so called movement.....it's a factor....but only a minor annoyance in the gereral scheme of things.... Still why take chances...be prepared to deal with it, if the need arises.
No doubt Obama and company will be "embracing" the OWS to death soon.
As my Mother used to say "play the tune to suit the company"

Slogans like "power to the people" may influence a certain portion of the populace....but what the hell does it mean? It sounds good until you try to nail down which people exactly are supposed to have the power. Being as all the "people" seem to want different things, it's actually quite meaningless.....and always has been.

Anyway the "people" already had the power given to them and they had absolutely no clue what to do with it. (they never do in the real world, only in the fantasy land of left wing liberals and people of that ilk) ....except for those 1% ers who know exactly what it means, and have the savvy to get hold of it.....and that my good friends is why they came to have the power, and the rest did not. In the final analyis you see;' the "people" gave it to them.
You lefties do get carried away very easily. Talk about clutching at straws.....

Once again....these naive fools are shouting down the wrong alleyway. The solutions to the problems we all face have to begin in the political arena....not on Wall St. Wall St bankers or corporate CEO's and boards do not have to seek re-election....The POTUS, Senate and Congress does. Is this ever going to sink in with people....sheesh....

Also, it seems to be constantly overlooked that banks and other corporations are pretty agile beasts. If you make life too difficult for them in NYC or LA they can just as easily operate from London, Zurich, Singapore, Hong Kong or fucking Timbucktoo if necessary. It's not quite as simple; cut and dried as your average unemployed bongo player thinks.

You just don't get it, Koman. You keep on about bongo players and how useless this movement is. It is not useless, it is having an impact on the way Americans think and Lutz has admitted it. The public thinks capitalism is immoral, they want the rich taxed contrary to what Republicans want, they know the Republicans don't care about the middle class and this man is telling Republican politicians to change their wording to trick the public.

Democrats have been trying to embrace OWS from the start and have been rebuffed. They are no better because the whole system is rotten.

Originally Posted by misskit

You just don't get it, Koman. You keep on about bongo players and how useless this movement is. It is not useless, it is having an impact on the way Americans think and Lutz has admitted it. The public thinks capitalism is immoral, they want the rich taxed contrary to what Republicans want, they know the Republicans don't care about the middle class and this man is telling Republican politicians to change their wording to trick the public.

Democrats have been trying to embrace OWS from the start and have been rebuffed. They are no better because the whole system is rotten.

A couple of small observations. First of all I have never mentioned bongo players before....so I can't be keeping on about them...... I won't mention them again.

The public does not think capitalism is immoral.. That is ridiculous. Many (myself included) think that the way capitalism has been hijaked and distorted is immoral. (even the video states as much) What we have been seeing in recent times is not real capitalism. The political farce that exists in Washington and some oher capitals has allowed this to happen. Wall St and London investment bankers may have been the proximate cause of the financial crash, but the elected governments that are supposed to control their respective financial sectors are untimately to blame.

Banking is just a business; but a very big and vital business. If it is allowed to run amok and do whatever it likes, bad things happen....and obviously did happen.

The governments of the developed world collectively have to get control of the global financial sector, because this is truly an international problem that will take almost unprecented international efforts to remedy. You can bring down Wall Street if you like.....but there are lots of other "streets" just waiting to take up the slack. In the meantime, you would devastate the US economy....what's left of it, and do very serious damage to many other economies too. If you think 9% unemployment is bad......just go ahead....bring down the big bad banks on Wall St. When it hits 20%+ then who are you going to yell at??

The US is showing some meagre signs of growth again. It's fragile and will likely take many years to come back to pre 2008 levels. All you need now is these bullshit pseudo events grinding it it to a halt. There is nothing anyone can do in the short term to fix a problem that has been growing for decades. The sovereign debt is huge, but it can, and eventually will be managed. There are many other nations with far larger debt/GDP ratios. The banks are working and making profits. Most companies are doing well. Everybody needs to shut up....pay down their own debts along with the governments at both state and national level. (good luck to liberal California) Once consumer debt is managed, people can spend again which creates employment and more tax revenues, which reduces the government debt...and so on.

It's all to easy to vent and spew anti goverment and anti bank slogans and celebrate small victories when the OWs manage to make some Republican look stupid (which is not that difficult most of the time..)....claiming some great new breakthrough over a "leaked" memo; but this kind of thing is very ephemeral. The OWs will go the way of the "Twist" "Hoola hoop" "Disco" and many other attractive fads that have come and gone over the years....

If you stand by a fence and make mooing noises, the grazing cows will all come over to see what the noise is all about....but they quickly loose interest when you have nothing to offer, that a cow would really be intersted in for more than a moment or two.....

Originally Posted by koman

The public does not think capitalism is immoral..

Wasn't my quote. I failed to include everything Lutz said.

Luntz said that the sentiment is so bad Republicans need to stop using the word capitalism. "They think capitalism is immoral. And if we're seen as defenders of quote, Wall Street, end quote, we've got a problem," he said.


If no one complains about economic injustice, no one will even acknowledge the problem. Keeping the status quo is not an option.

Originally Posted by misskit

capitalism is immoral

Capitalism itself is essentially amoral, like the pursuit of profit. Fortunately, we live in a far from 'pure' capitalist system.
The noughties proved that you need a framework of regulation and accountability, or disaster always follows.

The thing is, no real change will occur except through the political system, the ballot box.
Thing is, isn't that what was supposed to have just happened?
What happened to the messiah of 'hope and change?'
How many of the people at the OWS campouts were even eligible to vote at the last elections?

Originally Posted by misskit

The number of protesters voting is pretty insignificant. What is important is they influence the way voters vote and what they demand from their government. The public's attention has been focused on our broken economic system and corporate control of Washington.

OWS has already had some affect in Ohio, where legislation was repealed curbing public workers rights to collective bargaining.

Bank of America and other banks ditched their fees imposed on customers for using their ATM cards due to an OWS campaign and public outrage.

Legislation has been introduced to stop big banks from bypassing state laws capping interest rates and has a chance of passing because of attention OWS has brought to unfair banking practices.

All good stuff then.
All that's left is for someone to register the name, start a company, and start accepting lobbying fees and going public.