The Libyan Crisis

**harrybarracuda** · 19-03-2011, 04:46 PM

Alright, it's about as sovereign as Andorra, Liechtenstein, or San Marino... a tiny little entity attached to big ugly one, like a male angler fish.

They are principalities. Bahrain is a sovereign nation.

Repeatedly saying it is not unfortunately does not make that true.

**harrybarracuda** · 19-03-2011, 04:48 PM

They've just had some twerp from the "Stop the War" coalition. Now I would have thought they'd be in favour of action that stops civilians being slaughtered by the bucketload, but they are against the UN action.

Why exactly do they want to stop wars then?

**StrontiumDog** · 19-03-2011, 05:20 PM

AJELive AJELive

"I have all the Libyan people supporting me and they are prepared to die for me," Gaddafi spokesman says in letter to Obama

**StrontiumDog** · 19-03-2011, 05:25 PM

Gadhafi forces strike rebel city - World - CBC News

World leaders meet in Paris to discuss intervention

The Associated Press

Posted: Mar 19, 2011 5:28 AM ET

Last Updated: Mar 19, 2011 5:51 AM ET

A warplane of Moammar Gadhafi's forces is shot down over the outskirts of Benghazi, the rebel stronghold in eastern Libya, on Saturday. Anja Niedringhaus/Associated Press

Libyan forces struck Saturday at the heart of the rebellion against Moammar Gadhafi, shelling the outskirts of the rebel capital and launching airstrikes in defiance of international demands for a halt to the fighting.

Leaders from the Arab world, Africa, the United States and other Western powers were holding urgent talks in Paris over possible military action against Gadhafi's forces, which are trying to crush the nearly five-week-old rebellion against him.

Trying to outmanoeuvre Western military intervention, Gadhafi's government declared a ceasefire on Friday as the rebel uprising faltered against his artillery, tanks and warplanes.

But the opposition said shells rained down well after the announcement and accused the Libyan leader of lying.

Summit in Paris

Suspicious of Gadhafi's claim to a ceasefire, Britain and France took the lead in plans to enforce a no-fly zone, sending British warplanes to the Mediterranean and announcing a crisis summit in Paris with the UN and Arab allies.

But there was no sign of intervention Saturday, and residents were reported fleeing Benghazi to escape the fighting.

In Washington, President Barack Obama ruled out the use of American ground troops but warned that the U.S., which has an array of naval and air forces in the region, would join in military action.

There should be no doubt about the Libyan leader's intentions "because he has made them clear," Obama said. "Just yesterday, speaking of the city of Benghazi, a city of roughly 700,000, he threatened 'we will have no mercy and no pity.' No mercy on his own citizens."

In a joint statement to Gadhafi late Friday, the United States, Britain and France — backed by unspecified Arab countries — said a ceasefire must begin "immediately" in Libya, the French presidential palace said.

The statement called on Gadhafi to end his troops' advance toward Benghazi, the rebel headquarters, and pull them out of the cities of Misrata, Ajdabiya and Zawiya, and called for the restoration of water, electricity and gas services in all areas. It said Libyans must be able to receive humanitarian aid or the "international community will make him suffer the consequences" with military action.

(more at the link)

**StrontiumDog** · 19-03-2011, 05:28 PM

Western Benghazi after rocket attack Mar. 19, 2001

**StrontiumDog** · 19-03-2011, 05:30 PM

Libya Live Blog - March 19 | Al Jazeera Blogs

10:23am
Al Jazeera shows pictures of the fighter jet as it was shot down:

10:09am
Picture of the Al Jazeera vehicle that was hit in Benghazi:

**StrontiumDog** · 19-03-2011, 05:32 PM

Libya Live Blog - March 19 | Al Jazeera Blogs

12:18am

Here is revised text of the speeches that Gaddafi's spokesman read out:

The first letter to brother leader to Barack Obama:

"To our son, his excellency, Mr Baracka Hussein Obama. I have said to you before, that even if Libya and the United States of America enter into a war, god forbid, you will always remain a son. Your picture will not be changed. I want you to remain in the same image. I have all the people of Libya with me, and I'm prepared to die and we have all the men, children and women with me. Nothing more. Al Qaeda is an armed organisation, passing through Algeria, Mauritania and Mali. What would you do if you found them controlling American cities with the power of weapons? What would you do, so I can follow your example."

Letter to Ban Ki Moon, Sarkozy and Cameron:

"Libya is not yours, Libya is for the Libyans. The security council, their resolution is void because it is not according to the charter to interfere with the internal affairs of the country. … You have no right. You will regret if you get involved in this, our country. We can never shoot a single bullet on our people, it is Al Qaeda organisation."

12:14pm

A spokesman for the rebel National Libyan Council reported a bombardment on the western town of Zintan by Gaddafi forces and said five shells had fallen on the outskirts.

The spokesman, who was named only as Adel, was speaking to Al Arabiya television.

**harrybarracuda** · 19-03-2011, 05:35 PM

Wow the last Libyan press conference has come straight out of Gaddafi's mouth. Rabid ramblings, threats, and so on.

**Tom Sawyer** · 19-03-2011, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

it would seem that Gaddafi is trying to race in there and take it over before whatever this coalition is called gets its shit together.

That's exactly it. And he may well beat them to the punch. Once he has control on the ground in all these major places, then that's it - game over - not for him but for the rebels. No fly zone? So what? And then where would the US and Europeans bomb without killing a lot of civilians? Looks like the mad camper may win this one.

One thought though - what if he's right about Al Qaeda?

**CaptainNemo** · 19-03-2011, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

One thought though - what if he's right about Al Qaeda?

...an example of why he's been in power for four decades... sowing seeds of doubt... divide and conquer... say one thing to stall, and do another whilst the enemy is distracted... and of course, making sure all his enemies and their relatives are dead.

slap a cruise missile or three on him, and get it over with, before he does a Rwanda.

**harrybarracuda** · 19-03-2011, 07:04 PM

Meanwhile, let's have a meeting in Paris.

Doh!

**Bower** · 19-03-2011, 07:48 PM

BBC radio here in Uk reports the first action by UN sanctioned forces is likely to happen within hours of the Paris meeting finishing. First strike probably by the French.

'Going to war without the French is like going deer hunting without your accordion'........Gen Norman Schwarzkopf.

**hazz** · 19-03-2011, 07:56 PM

"Libya is not yours, Libya is for the Libyans" has to be one of the sanist things he has ever uttered, I suppose he never followed this advice himself because he thinks he is the libyans.

Perhaps the world would be a better place is every head of state and government had to have the following advice stamped on the wall opposite their desks.

"This country is not yours, it belongs to the people. You are not the people"

**CaptainNemo** · 19-03-2011, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by hazz

Perhaps the world would be a better place is every head of state and government had to have the following advice stamped on the wall opposite their desks.

"This country is not yours, it belongs to the people. You are not the people"

Memento Mori... the roman emporers had that... even the worst ones...

**StrontiumDog** · 19-03-2011, 09:28 PM

BreakingNews Breaking News

French planes enter Libyan airspace, Al Arabiya reports, citing military source

**StrontiumDog** · 19-03-2011, 09:39 PM

BBC News - Libya: French military jets on 'reconnaissance'

19 March 2011 Last updated at 14:32 GMT

French military jets over Libya

French military jets have flown reconnaissance missions over "all Libyan territory" on Saturday, French military sources say.

Western and Arab leaders have been meeting in Paris to agree a course of action after the UN voted on Thursday for a no-fly zone over Libya.

Pro-Gaddafi forces launched an assault on the Libyan rebel stronghold of Benghazi, a BBC journalist witnessed.

However, the Libyan government has denied it is attacking.

The rebels' leader has appealed to the international community to stop the bombardment by pro-Gaddafi forces.

Reports suggest hundreds of cars packed with people were fleeing the city eastwards as fighting spread.

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon says the world must "speak with one voice" on Libya.

The new UN resolution authorised "all necessary measures" to protect Libyan civilians.

**StrontiumDog** · 19-03-2011, 10:10 PM

BreakingNews Breaking News

French President Sarkozy says allied planes 'already preventing air attacks' on Benghazi World leaders launch military action in Libya - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com

**hazz** · 19-03-2011, 10:18 PM

I don't see a way out for gadaffi on this one.

His loyalists are now faced with fighting a civil war they will not be allowed to win and they are going to be bombed into parity with the rebels. Their only choice is going to be to abandon the gadafi family and negotiate a settlement with the rebels. Likewise the rebels are unlikely to get the help they need to defeat those groups who have so very well under gadaffi and have enough to loose to make fighting on worthwhile.

Let's hope both sides relise they cannot win and need to negotiate their way out of this war before too many lives are needlessly lost.

**StrontiumDog** · 19-03-2011, 11:03 PM

AP: US officials: US not involved in first action over Libya but plans sea-launched missile attack

**CaptainNemo** · 20-03-2011, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by hazz

I don't see a way out for gadaffi on this one.

His loyalists are now faced with fighting a civil war they will not be allowed to win and they are going to be bombed into parity with the rebels. Their only choice is going to be to abandon the gadafi family and negotiate a settlement with the rebels. Likewise the rebels are unlikely to get the help they need to defeat those groups who have so very well under gadaffi and have enough to loose to make fighting on worthwhile.

Let's hope both sides relise they cannot win and need to negotiate their way out of this war before too many lives are needlessly lost.

As with most African countries, they'd be better off with the country broken up into smaller more homogenous units...

Democratic Cyrenaica would do fine as long as it got a decent slice of oil.

**blue** · 20-03-2011, 01:49 AM

big joke
if they wanted to attack Gadaffi ,why not do it 20 years ago when he was supporting IRA gangsters.
leave them to thier civil war

**Marmite the Dog** · 20-03-2011, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

As with most African countries, they'd be better off with the country broken up into smaller more homogenous units...

Better off being a British colony as history has proven.

**hazz** · 20-03-2011, 01:53 AM

^^^Unfortunately thats the result of europeans sharing out africa between themselves with no idea, at the time, what was actually there. Countries with large groups of culturally distinct peoples don't seem to work very well in the long term; just look at Europe's long history of bloody conflict over the issue. I was under the impression that libya has been a distinct country for a long time and was for the region relatively non tribal. I thought it was the libyan salutans persistent borrowing of US boats and crews that pushed the US into creating its navy

Natural resources do seem to be more of a curse than an assent, unless a country has very strong institutions like norway

**hazz** · 20-03-2011, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by blue

big joke
if they wanted to attack Gadaffi ,why not do it 20 years ago when he was supporting IRA gangsters.
leave them to thier civil war

Because to be fair; we would have had to attack america too, as they provided much better support to the IRA. But the truth be told the brits were just to chicken shit to do either of them.

**StrontiumDog** · 20-03-2011, 01:59 AM

BreakingNews Breaking News

French air force jets have destroyed some tanks and armored vehicles in Libya, a defense ministry official confirms - Reuters

Thread: The Libyan Crisis

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