Thread: Iraq News

So the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi's are non-people in your opinion?

Originally Posted by sabang

So the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi's are non-people in your opinion?

Did I say that?

Got no problem counting them. But they don't go into the American death toll - just like all the German, Japanese, English, French, etc did not go into the American death tolls from WWII.

Originally Posted by Panda

But the new Iraqi government didn't hand over control of the oil fields to foreign companies from US.

Never the intent, Panda-san.

Originally Posted by Texpat

Originally Posted by Panda

But the new Iraqi government didn't hand over control of the oil fields to foreign companies from US.

Never the intent, Panda-san.

Many US energy companies had already been chosen to go into Iraq and get their hands on the oil and other reconstruction efforts.

They waited and waited for improved security, and when it didn't happen they dropped their feasibility studies and plans.

These companies were in the mix after it became clear the US was invading, and before the invasion began.

Originally Posted by Bugs

But the comparison of the Uraq war and various major battles that the Us has been involved in while not a direct comparison I feel is a relavent and meaningful set of numbers. Showing that the number of deaths to date over the entire 5 years in Iraq pales in compaison to individual battle deaths of the past.

Not a meaningful comparison either.
The "Iraq War" was won 5 years ago, the casualties relate to the occupation, not any war. And of course, as mentioned already, US military casualties are not the only ones which count.

Originally Posted by sabang

So the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi's are non-people in your opinion?

A lot of focus on the 2,000 and 3,000 and 4,000 American casualty but little if any coverage of the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed.

Very arrogant.

Well, victory is in the air and it's a foul odor to the left-wing crowd who say we can't win and have to withdraw as soon as possible. To keep repeating "we are losing & let's just leave" does nothing but give aid & comfort to the enemy...

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Well, victory is in the air and it's a foul odor to the left-wing crowd who say we can't win and have to withdraw as soon as possible.

It's not about "left" or "right."

This is an Iraqi issue.

To keep repeating "we are losing & let's just leave" does nothing but give aid & comfort to the enemy...

Who's the enemy? Sunnis? Sunni Wahabbis? al-Hakim? al-Sadr? al-Maliki and the Dawa party? The Mahdi army? The Suhwa?

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Well, victory is in the air

It's not the " Jokes and funny stories" section Boon Mee.

Originally Posted by Milkman

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Well, victory is in the air and it's a foul odor to the left-wing crowd who say we can't win and have to withdraw as soon as possible.

It's not about "left" or "right."

This is an Iraqi issue.

To keep repeating "we are losing & let's just leave" does nothing but give aid & comfort to the enemy...

Who's the enemy? Sunnis? Sunni Wahabbis? al-Hakim? al-Sadr? al-Maliki and the Dawa party? The Mahdi army? The Suhwa?

Try Osama and his crowd plus the Iranian Revolutionary Guard for starters?

Some of you tools just can't fathom the thought that the US is coming out of this conflict with a much better Iraq, relatively few casualties, having done it by themselves, despite a democratically-elected Iraqi government moving very slowly to own up to its responsibilities.

I can't imagine how or why some of you try to desperately hard to discredit that feat. Must suck to be you.

Originally Posted by Hootad Binky

It is now a matter of public record that the CIA knew, in advance, there was no Al-Queda link and certainly no yellow cake shipments from Niger (for a start). They were bullied into giving the "intel" the Bush admin wanted to hear (ditto the British and their claim of a "45 minute" wmd attack capability and their subsequent discrediting and suicide of a British scientist who thought otherwise).

I never bought into any Al-Queda link to Iraq anyway, and I always thought the intell on the African connection was sketchy at best.

Never mind these guys Bugs, they're just frantically flippin' switches hoping the lights will turn on somewhere. Stick around in this thread long enough and you'll see the kitchen sink do a flyby.

More good news with Mookie bailing, eh?

"BAGHDAD - Hundreds of people fled fighting in Baghdad's Shiite militia stronghold Monday as U.S. and Iraqi forces increased pressure on anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who faces an ultimatum to disband his Mahdi Army or face a ban from Iraqi politics."

Aides to Muqtada al-Sadr called Monday for dialogue to resolve a violent standoff with the Iraqi government, saying that the radical Shiite cleric would disband his militia if senior religious leaders ordered it.

"Aide Hassan al-Zarqani said from Iran that al-Sadr will consult Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani and other top Shiite clerics if the government continues to pressure al-Sadr to disband the militia or see his candidates banned from upcoming elections.
Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki warned al-Sadr on Sunday to disband his militia or face a ban from politics."

Muqtada al-Sadr may be looking for a way to throw in the towel: Al-Sadr calls for dialogue in Iraq.

Originally Posted by Texpat

Some of you tools just can't fathom the thought that the US is coming out of this conflict with a much better Iraq, relatively few casualties, having done it by themselves, despite a democratically-elected Iraqi government moving very slowly to own up to its responsibilities.

I can't imagine how or why some of you try to desperately hard to discredit that feat. Must suck to be you.

Millions of refugees fleeing the country, hundreds of thousands of civilians killed, infrastructure in ruins, and ongoing civil war. Yea that's real progress. 5 years of it!

Saddam Hussein was a ruthless dictator, but he held the country together under the force of an iron fist. His removal has created a power vacuum and destabilized the country. That has to be painfully obvious. Only another ruthless strongman is going to be able to control the competing factions. Genuine democracy isn't going to work in this ethnically fractured country that was thrown together by the western powers after WW1.

The Kurds are going along with the idea of an Iranian democracy now because it suits their purposes at the moment. But they want their own independent state as shown by their terrorist war against Turkey.

So long as the US seeks to control the Iraqi government there will be ongoing rebellion from resistance militia groups. US interference in the Middle East simply feeds the growth of radical Islamists and subsequent terrorist reprisals.

Bush and his Neocon mates created this mess and they have no way to fix it now. No way is Iraq going to become a homogeneous peaceful democracy in our lifetimes. I think McCain was right when he said it will take 100 years of occupation by USA.

This talk of victory every time there is some seemingly upbeat news from Iraq is pure Hype anyway. The absolute best that can be hoped for now is a Pyrrhic victory- pacifying the country enough to get some oil flowing and inward investment coming. But the cost of the War in every respect has already far outweighed what was hoped to be gained.

Don't forget that each American family is paying a monthly average of $400 for this war. What else could you do with around US$5,000 per year? Well maybe -

Cause oil prices to skyrocket (and make sure you have Money there )
Cost the lives of around 1 million people
Plunge another country into violent anarchy
Put the US government in a financial hole
Lie to your people and the rest of the world
Degrade the mighty USD
Encourage Islamic extremism
Turn a once secular state into three fiefdoms run by competing Islamic sects
Award $50,000,000,000 of generous government 'No bid' contracts to your Vice Presidents old company, in which he has a very large interest.
Make sure Carlyle is taken well care of for Junior (they've still managed to stuff it up); and generous friends such as Blackwater, big oil, the Arms industry and so on. If you're rich, ya gotta take care of your cronies in the Club.

So I guess you could say, the Bush administration got a mighty Bang for your Buck.

Originally Posted by Texpat

I can't imagine how or why some of you try to desperately hard to discredit that feat

So to be against this war is the same as being against

Originally Posted by Texpat

a much better Iraq, relatively few casualties ...a democratically-elected Iraqi government

etc.?

Originally Posted by Panda

So long as the US seeks to control the Iraqi government

Maybe you can catch the next boat, seeing as you've obviously missed that one. The US wants nothing more than for Iraq to take control. The US knows it's viewed as an outsider. I think your primary obstacle to understanding is that the US really doesn't want anything but a stabilized region and a democratic Iraq.

Granted that's a foreign concept to most Europeans who can't fathom floating a farthing for someone else ... Just watch helplessly as you slide further into obscurity with your outdated views on globalism. Keep looking inward, the answer's gotta be there somewhere. Better yet, hold a few high-level meetings where the ultimate conclusion will be to hold a few more high-level meetings.

Isn't there a torch-bearer somewhere out there you guys should be tackling?

Originally Posted by Texpat

Originally Posted by Panda

So long as the US seeks to control the Iraqi government

Maybe you can catch the next boat, seeing as you've obviously missed that one. The US wants nothing more than for Iraq to take control. The US knows it's viewed as an outsider. I think your primary obstacle to understanding is that the US really doesn't want anything but a stabilized region and a democratic Iraq.

Granted that's a foreign concept to most Europeans who can't fathom floating a farthing for someone else ... Just watch helplessly as you slide further into obscurity with your outdated views on globalism. Keep looking inward, the answer's gotta be there somewhere. Better yet, hold a few high-level meetings where the ultimate conclusion will be to hold a few more high-level meetings.

Isn't there a torch-bearer somewhere out there you guys should be tackling?

Rather abusive there Texpat. Must be having a bad hair day.
Only one coherent sentence in the whole three paragraphs.
Seems I must have touched a nerve somewhere.

Good old USA to the rescue. You guys are so self-sacrificing. Never thinking of yourselves.

So the whole idea of invading is now to stabilize the region and bring democracy to Iraq? Forget the WMDs. That was just bad intelligence.

I have to wonder why the Yanks didn't invade Saudi Arabia in the name of democracy if what you claim is correct. Since Saudi Arabia is ruled by a dictatorship which imposes a very repressive Islamic regime on its people. But no, instead the US maintains the Saudis as one of their biggest military weapons customers. And of course the grateful Saudi Royal blood suckers in return keep the taps on their countries oil reserves turned up.

I sometime wonder if you war mongers actually believe the crap you spew out.

Originally Posted by Panda

Must be having a bad hair day.

.....

Originally Posted by Texpat

Originally Posted by Panda

So long as the US seeks to control the Iraqi government

Maybe you can catch the next boat, seeing as you've obviously missed that one. The US wants nothing more than for Iraq to take control. The US knows it's viewed as an outsider. I think your primary obstacle to understanding is that the US really doesn't want anything but a stabilized region and a democratic Iraq.

You are joking, right?
Weren't you one of the guys going on about the spoils of war and how the US and UK and their favoured companies would obviously get first picks?

Granted that's a foreign concept to most Europeans who can't fathom floating a farthing for someone else ... Just watch helplessly as you slide further into obscurity with your outdated views on globalism. Keep looking inward, the answer's gotta be there somewhere. ...

And what does this odd rant about "Europeans" supposedly have to do with Iraq News, I wonder?