Americans and their guns...the right to kill.

**ChiangMai noon** · 03-10-2006, 08:30 AM

Another sad week for American school kids.
several shooting incidents at schools around the country including the really awful story of an execution style murder of 3 young girls at an Amesh school.

I know we have talked about it before, but I can't remember what the gun lobby's supporting idea was.

Fatal shooting at US Amish school

Scene of shootings
A gunman has shot dead three girls and injured seven others before killing himself in an attack on an Amish school in the US state of Pennsylvania.

The gunman entered the class and ordered all the boys and some adults to leave. He then tied up the girls and began shooting them in the head.

Police named the killer as 32-year-old truck driver Charles Carl Roberts IV. He is not believed to be Amish himself.

The attack is the third shooting at a US school in the past week.

In the latest shooting, the gunman lined up the girls in front of the blackboard, tying their feet using wire or plastic cuffs.

"It appears that when he began shooting these victims, the victims were shot execution style in the head," said Pennsylvania police commissioner Col Jeffrey Miller.

The attack happened at a one-room school for Amish children aged six to 13 in the village of Paradise near Nickel Mines in Lancaster County.

The Amish are the Anabaptist Christian descendants of German settlers who reject many types of modern technology in their effort to lead a life true to holy scriptures.

They restrict the use of cars, telephones and television to varying degrees.

Col Jeffrey B Miller said the gunman entered Georgetown School in the morning, armed with an automatic handgun and shotgun.

He told the boys to leave, along with a pregnant woman and three women who had young infants with them.

He then tied up the girls and barricaded the doors with large pieces of wood.

Police arrived at the scene at about 1045 (1445 GMT) and set up a cordon around the school, Col Miller said.

The officers tried hailing the gunman on their car loudspeakers, but were unable to make contact, he said.

The Associated Press news agency quotes Col Miller as saying a person who visited the school passed on a warning from the gunman that he would open fire unless the police withdrew.

As the message was going through shots fired in rapid succession were heard, Col Miller said.

Police stormed the building, breaking the windows to enter. But by the time they got there three girls and the gunman were dead.

Seven people were found injured, at least three of whom were shot in the head.

'Normal behaviour'

Roberts was a local milk tanker driver who often picked up milk from Amish farms in the area.

A father of three, he had worked his night shift as usual on Sunday night, finishing at 0300 on Monday.

His wife said he had seemed perfectly normal as he walked his children to the school bus at 0845, as he did every day.

However, when his wife returned to the family home around mid-morning she discovered suicide notes that he had written to each of his children.

The police said there were indications that he was motivated by an incident that happened some 20 years ago, but refused to go into details.

In a separate incident, two Las Vegas schools, one high school and one elementary school, were temporarily locked down while police hunted for a teenager spotted carrying a gun on the high school campus.

These latest incidents come at the end of a week of gun-related violence in US schools.

Last Wednesday a 16-year-old girl died when an armed man, who also killed himself, took six students hostage at a Colorado high school.

And on Friday, a head teacher at a high school in Wisconsin was killed when he confronted an armed 15-year-old student as he entered the school.

**Camel Toe** · 03-10-2006, 08:56 AM

A 20-year grudge. Sounds like ajarn.

**man with no head** · 03-10-2006, 09:09 AM

You realize of course that on average 53 children die each week in motor vehicle accidents. The overall rate of death from merely being in someone's vehicle is almost 30 times greater than the risk of being killed by a gun. That's why these stories make headlines: it's not very common a child gets killed by a gun.

**raycarey** · 03-10-2006, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by surasak

it's not very common a child gets killed by a gun.

how often is enough to make it 'common'?

**RandomChances** · 03-10-2006, 09:16 AM

The answer is of course to have more guns, if all those kids were armed he would of thought twice

**RandomChances** · 03-10-2006, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by surasak

You realize of course that on average 53 children die each week in motor vehicle accidents. The overall rate of death from merely being in someone's vehicle is almost 30 times greater than the risk of being killed by a gun. That's why these stories make headlines: it's not very common a child gets killed by a gun.

They would be accidents though, you'd really have to compare that figure to how many kids get accidently killed by guns

**man with no head** · 03-10-2006, 09:46 AM

The fact is that vehicles are far more dangerous. Where is the call to ban ownership of personal vehicles?

**ChiangMai noon** · 03-10-2006, 09:51 AM

I agree with a lot of what you post surasak, but that line of reason is totally fatuous. Where is the call to ban cigarettes, high fat food, alcohol.

**Butterfly** · 03-10-2006, 09:53 AM

The idea of giving people guns is crazy. Civilization starts with the deposition of guns at the gate of the city. Even in the wild wild west they had those rules. Ban guns in cities and urban areas.

**raycarey** · 03-10-2006, 09:57 AM

firearms killed
no children in Japan,
19 in Great Britain,
57 in Germany,
109 in France,
153 in Canada,
and 5,285 in the United States.

Embassies and foreign reporting agencies, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Health Statistics, unpublished data from the Vital Statistics System, 1997.

Brady Campaign - Kids & Guns in America

**Storekeeper** · 03-10-2006, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

but that line of reason is totally fatuous.

Hell, I was thinking his point was impervious.

**Little Chuchok** · 03-10-2006, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by surasak

The fact is that vehicles are far more dangerous. Where is the call to ban ownership of personal vehicles?

When a vehicle kills somebody, it is normally called an accident...

When the low life shot those kids, did he accidently pull the trigger five times?

**KID** · 03-10-2006, 10:38 AM

If your going to use statistics, at least compare murders using guns and accidental shootings VS vehicle accident deaths and vehicular homicides please.

other wise your statistics mean NOTHING !!!

Funny the Brit posters are always complaining about America's gun rights but I have heard several complaints from posters that they are scared to walk down the street at night in the u.k. coz of the Y.O.B.B's ( what ever that stands for)

I am out till AM on the weekends doing my street vending and never really worry about the y.a.m's ( young adolescent males) or ( young African males) . got a steel pipe for small altercations and a GLOCK MM FOR THE MORE SERIOUS ALTERCATIONS-- funny thing is--no altercations to date-- must be that BULGE UNDER MY SHIRT

**machangezi** · 03-10-2006, 10:42 AM

A few years ago the American gov't was thinking of allowing the citizens to carry automatic weapons. I'm not sure if it's been enforced.

**raycarey** · 03-10-2006, 10:46 AM

even cops are against the types of guns that are legal to buy in the US.

the NRA is out of control.

**ChiangMai noon** · 03-10-2006, 10:48 AM

It's every citizens duty to carry a gun in the US.

**man with no head** · 03-10-2006, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

I agree with a lot of what you post surasak, but that line of reason is totally fatuous. Where is the call to ban cigarettes, high fat food, alcohol.

Actually possession of tobacco and alcohol by minors here is illegal in most or all states. And, the bans on high fat food are in place in some school districts.

**ChiangMai noon** · 03-10-2006, 10:50 AM

^
But what the buggery does that have to do with murder, you have me at a total loss.

**raycarey** · 03-10-2006, 10:51 AM

In 2000, the FBI estimated that 66% of the 15,517 murders that year were committed with firearms.

The United States has the largest number of guns in private hands of any country in the world with 60 million people owning a combined arsenal of over 200 million firearms.

I have a right to | BBC World Service

**RandomChances** · 03-10-2006, 10:52 AM

Guns are basicaly offensive weapons not defensive. If you are walking down the street and someone attempts to rob you with a gun do you really thing you will be able to pull yours and frighten them off, in all likelyhood they probaly end up stealing your gun as well. Same in the home really if you have intruders, unless you have a gun, loaded and ready to hand theres not much chance you would be able to do anything

**ChiangMai noon** · 03-10-2006, 10:53 AM

Would like to see some self defence statistics.
I can't believe they outweigh the murders.

**man with no head** · 03-10-2006, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Macha

A few years ago the American gov't was thinking of allowing the citizens to carry automatic weapons. I'm not sure if it's been enforced.

Possession of automatic weapons is generally banned and has been banned since 1934 unless certain provisions are met (see the National Fireams Act of 1934; Fiream Owners Protection Act of 1986). For a person to own one he or she must obtain permission from the ATF, pass an extensive background check, and obtain permission from their local police chief or county sheriff.

**ChiangMai noon** · 03-10-2006, 10:59 AM

FACT: Every two years more Americans die from firearm injuries than the total number of American soldiers killed during the 8-year Vietnam War. In 2003, the total number of people killed by guns in the United States was 30,136.

...............

**ChiangMai noon** · 03-10-2006, 11:00 AM

Statistics, Facts and Quotes

* People who keep guns at home have a 72% greater chance of being killed by firearms and are 3.44 times more likely to commit suicide than those who do not keep guns at home (Annals of Emergency Medicine, Vol 41, p. 771).
* A recent survey of 236 types of pistols made in the U.S. found that:
o only 13% had a loaded chamber indicator
o only 20% had a grip safety to make it harder for children to use the gun
o only 21% had a magazine safety, which prevents the gun from firing when the magazine has been removed, even if there is already a round in the chamber of the gun
(Annals of Emergency Medicine, Vol 41, p 1)
* A recent Emory University study shows that 32% of unintended shootings in the U.S. are caused by deficiencies in gun design. (Annals of Emergency Medicine, Vol 41, p 10)

**Little Chuchok** · 03-10-2006, 11:01 AM

Background check:-

Sheriff:are you crazy?

Crazy person: Nope

Sheriff: promise you won't start shooting people willy nilly

crazy person : I promise

Sheriff: welcome to the wild west......

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