Thread: the H1N1 vaccine - more dangerous than the illness?

Are the new H1N1 vaccines more dangerous than the illness itself? The main concern may be the so-called 'adjuvants', additives that increase immune response and stretch out the vaccine supply. Adjuvants such as squalene are nasty substances, suspected in a host of autoimmune and neurological diseases such as lupus, ALS and Gulf War Syndrome. Non-adjuvanted H1N1 vaccines (weaker but probably safer) may only be available in some countries and only for infants and pregnant women. Surprisingly, Europe seems to be more inclined than the USA to use adjuvants in the upcoming vaccine offerings.

I'm not a tin foil hat guy who believes that vaccines are a genocidal plot by the Illuminati, but rather a concerned parent who feels that Western governments are too close to the medical industry for their opinions to be fully trusted. Do you feel as uneasy about the H1N1 vaccines as I do? Do you plan to have your family vaccinated? If so, will you insist on non-adjuvanted vaccines when making that decision?

an extract from a rather troubling article:

New H1N1 Swine Flu Vaccine Contains Adjuvants,European Medicines Agency | H1N1 Flu | Swine Flu | Bioweapon | Mass Vaccination | Cure

"Squalene in vaccines has been strongly linked to the Gulf War Syndrome. On August 1991, Anthony Principi, Secretary of Veterans Affairs admitted that soldiers vaccinated with the anthrax vaccine from 1990 to 1991 had an increased risk of 200 percent in developing the deadly disease amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), also called Lou Gehrig's disease. The soldiers also suffered from a number of debilitating and life-shortening diseases, such as polyarteritis nodosa, multiple sclerosis (MS), lupus, transverse myelitis (a neurological disorder caused by inflammation of the spinal cord), endocarditis (inflammation of the heart's inner lining), optic neuritis with blindness and glomerulonephritis (a type of kidney disease).

The second ingredient, and one that greatly concerns me, is called gp120, a glycoprotein. Researchers found when it was mixed with squalene, the glycoprotein became strongly antigenic - that is, it produced a powerful and prolonged immune response to the vaccination. In fact, their studies show that with each dose, the intense immune reaction lasts over a year.

Now for the shocker-the glycoprotein-gp120, a major component of MF-59 vaccine adjuvant, is the same protein fragment isolated from HIV - the virus that is responsible for the rapid dementia seen in AIDS patients."

^ Zombies, the government is incubating zombies...

^And that's news?

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

^And that's news?

Nope. Just curious if you're going to roll up your sleeve for the H1N1 vaccine.

Err, no... I've seen Night of the Living Dead too many times...

Originally Posted by beazalbob69

The US has declared it a national health emergency! WHY?

Somebody wants a Nobel for medicine to go next to his one for peace?

It's the rightwing nutters who thnk the sky is falling. Suddenly all the corporations they've supported under Bush are now evil conspiring organizations. Hypocrites.

Basing their hypothesis about the potential dangers of the piggy flu vaccine on illnesses suffered by returned US soldiers is not real compelling evidence.

I still haven't heard a serious answer whether any TD member or his family plans to take this vaccine. I'm trying to generate a discussion about the wisdom of taking the H1N1 vaccine. Chances of dying from H1N1 are low and chances of getting a debilitating, chronic illness from the vaccine seem low as well. Personally, I'm warming up to the USA-approved version since it apparently doesn't have the additives implicated in some autoimmune diseases.

I've had the vaccine as have most people in my community.
Apart from this itchy rash all over my body and the sudden hair loss, I feel fine.

Seriously, I am not going to take the H1N1 vaccine... My reason is that every time I take a flu vaccine, I get sick... Regardless whether generated from cultures or synthesized... A vaccine isn't much good if it gives you the virus you're trying to avoid...

the H1N1 vaccine - more dangerous than the illness?

there is a growing number of folks who would disagree with this ,

pity they are not in a position to say so ....................

The issue isn't that not many people are dying at the moment, but that once the virus mutates and becomes more deadly, a great number of people could die. This seems to be what happened with the Spanish flu in 1918. Innoculation should give you protection even against a mutated strain. It will also take a vector out of circulation. If a large enough percentage of the population are innoculated the disease wil have difficulty spreading.

If a large enough percentage of the population are innoculated the disease wil have difficulty spreading.

there be the kicker ........................

I just got a letter from the Doc's telling me to bring the Nipper in for H1N1 vaccination, I really don't know if its the right thing to do, I don't want to just do it coz doc says so and I've rang him and he wont give me an honest opinion, just keeps reiterating that its recommended by the NH

Originally Posted by Sdigit

I just got a letter from the Doc's telling me to bring the Nipper in for H1N1 vaccination, I really don't know if its the right thing to do, I don't want to just do it coz doc says so and I've rang him and he wont give me an honest opinion, just keeps reiterating that its recommended by the NH

Since the US government doesn't give out statistics on H1N1 fatalities, I can only extrapolate from available state-level statistics. As of December 11, 2009, Illinois with population 12 million people has had exactly 2 children under the age of 5 die this year from H1N1. Since people dying from H1N1 tend to have underlying conditions (neuro-developmental disorders, for example), the chances of a healthy young child dying from this illness are virtually nil. A neighbor's child is recovering from an adverse reaction to a recently administered flu vaccine. I've heard other horror stories from three acquaintances about adverse reactions to vaccines. At the present moment, the benefits of giving my young child the H1N1 vaccine are negligible and the risks are probably low but the 'probably' part disturbs me. So, no vaccine for the little one this year. I've also noticed that those around me with the highest levels of education tend to avoid flu vaccines for their children.

I am not going to take the shot, more elderly, weak and very small children seems to be dying every year from normal flu, so the risk for me personally with my age, the fact I'm not working in a hospital or a school or any other place where I'm in close contact with many people every day, is acceptable without having a vaccination.

However I do believe in vaccinations as a good and essential thing in many areas of disease prevention, but for me personally at the present time I think it is OK and responsible enough to miss out on this on.

Originally Posted by slackula

Originally Posted by GooMaiRoo

I still haven't heard a serious answer whether any TD member or his family plans to take this vaccine.

OK, serious answer.

I don't know if a vaccine is even available here (I haven't checked) but if it is/was and the incidences of the disease start to increase dramatically then I'd probably have my elderly mother in law get a shot if it was recommended.

First I read that you want to get your MIL shot.

Originally Posted by GooMaiRoo

Originally Posted by Sdigit

I just got a letter from the Doc's telling me to bring the Nipper in for H1N1 vaccination, I really don't know if its the right thing to do, I don't want to just do it coz doc says so and I've rang him and he wont give me an honest opinion, just keeps reiterating that its recommended by the NH

Since the US government doesn't give out statistics on H1N1 fatalities, I can only extrapolate from available state-level statistics. As of December 11, 2009, Illinois with population 12 million people has had exactly 2 children under the age of 5 die this year from H1N1. Since people dying from H1N1 tend to have underlying conditions (neuro-developmental disorders, for example), the chances of a healthy young child dying from this illness are virtually nil. A neighbor's child is recovering from an adverse reaction to a recently administered flu vaccine. I've heard other horror stories from three acquaintances about adverse reactions to vaccines. At the present moment, the benefits of giving my young child the H1N1 vaccine are negligible and the risks are probably low but the 'probably' part disturbs me. So, no vaccine for the little one this year. I've also noticed that those around me with the highest levels of education tend to avoid flu vaccines for their children.

Thanks for the reply, I've now decided not to let him have to jab, I don't think it's worth the risk, especially considering as the doctor himself wouldn't even commit himself to saying yes it's a good thing to do

I attended the ICF exhibition in October of this year. There were many doctors as well as chemists for the food and health related industry. All of whom i spoke to suggested not to take the flu shot.

Scarey news that is JJ, I wonder if the Govt is even knows which is more harmful, the flu or the drug

Originally Posted by Fabian

Originally Posted by slackula

Originally Posted by GooMaiRoo

I still haven't heard a serious answer whether any TD member or his family plans to take this vaccine.

OK, serious answer.

I don't know if a vaccine is even available here (I haven't checked) but if it is/was and the incidences of the disease start to increase dramatically then I'd probably have my elderly mother in law get a shot if it was recommended.

First I read that you want to get your MIL shot.

I started this post 6 weeks ago and was leaning toward getting the H1N1 shots, especially for my child. Every important decision should be based on the best available and most current information. Based on what I've been seeing over these past month or so, having the vaccination while living in the midwestern USA isn't justified. Since we'll be headed to Thailand next year, I'm monitoring H1N1 over there as well. From the below Bangkok Post article, it appears that chances of getting H1N1 in Thailand are about 1/8 and then chances of dying from H1N1 are less than 1/40,000. Also consider that many of the 185 fatalities probably had underlying conditions. We'll still need to look into the risks and consider any necessary vaccines, including H1N1. The Sanofi-Pasteur version of the vaccine is the one for young children over here, and we may still give it to our little one if a 2nd wave of H1N1 in Thailand materializes.

from the Bangkok Post:

"The epidemiologist said 8 million Thais had contracted the type-A (H1N1) flu during its first wave from April to October. Six million exhibited flu symptoms and there were 185 deaths.


Second wave of H1N1 flu hits Thailand