Thread: Bangkok's Sex Slaves Savior

Originally Posted by Muadib

My rule of thumb is to provide trust & respect to a person until giving a reason to do otherwise... This has bit me over the years and has caused me to be more cautious, but I refuse to walk around being a cynical bastard all the time...

With 20,000 humans dying a day of starvation & disease I feel the 'missionaries' time in the OP would be better spend on those who are in dire need...

It's obvious a political issue for her, less true spiritual philanthropy. More so illusional than practical.

Nice to see some gentlemen who even if they do not agree with others opinions or even what that lady is trying to do, do not go act like school boy thinking its funny and clever to say mean things and name call.

As for the other men, well, as i am not a gentleman, I will go ahead and say that those who like to bury their head in the sand like a camel, go to prostitutes, believe that the girls really do think they are handsum, and that the girls enjoy their job, well, it just proves that too many western men here really are scum of the earth. So deluded. So pathetic. So sad.

^^

plus

^

The problem with this thread was in the way it was presented and the naivety of some posters in suggesting child prostitution is easily available in bars that cater for farangs.

Ouote: MustavaMond “So do any of you guys ever consider ( or care..) those young men or women ( or children..? ) might actually NOT want your fat disgusting, sunburned belly slapping up against them for money ?

Yeah, I didn't think so......”

Conclusions based on both ignorance and prejudice.

Ouote: tjyflhol “You don't think Thailand's sex trade which also involves a large amount of child prostitution is a problem Brit?”

Shocking.......

Posters here are also very skeptical of the the American or any right wing religious movement: and who can blame them when the reputation of these missionaries have. They present far more of a threat to the girls and their families than your normal average “sexpat” or “sex tourist”.

The girls in these bars are the real breadwinners of the rural poor and keep their family’s stomach full of rice, pay the bank loan for the D-Max and make sure their brothers and father remain drunk. The girls do not need this hypocritical god squad spewing out American religious views on morality or a free copy of the bible.

They need education, a job with a decent wage and a real government that cares for the poor.

After all it was the Americans in the name of god that really started this bar girl system.

Originally Posted by tjyflhol

For some expats/tourists in Thailand it can be a shock to find out that not all these girls are happy working in the sex trade and if someone like Celeste can open the eyes of these blinkered expats, then more power to her.

I cant agree with this part for reasons i explained earlier, there is a saying that you might think about: you can take a girl out of the bar but not the bar out of the girl.

Rather a sad fact

To me the only blinkered person is Celeste she should look at the reasons why the girls are there in the first place, and then attack the cause. She should not try to make a name for herself pretending to save a few

She is blinkered and misguided and though I'm sure she is understands to a reasonable degree while the girls are in this trade regarding Thailand's situation, I feel it's a little unfair to criticise her for not taking on the impossible job of changing that situation. People help in what way they can.

I also feel it's unfair to call her a liar who's aim is to gain fame regarding the help she feels she has given these girls.

She's a young, naive and religious American girl, but like I've said several times before, her heart is in the right place.

there is a saying that you might think about: you can take a girl out of the bar but not the bar out of the girl.

Heard it many years ago, a tired cliche IMO, and I'm sure there are many members here who have taken girls out of the bar and now have lovely wives would agree with me.

Originally Posted by gjbkk

Originally Posted by tjyflhol

For some expats/tourists in Thailand it can be a shock to find out that not all these girls are happy working in the sex trade and if someone like Celeste can open the eyes of these blinkered expats, then more power to her.

I cant agree with this part for reasons i explained earlier, there is a saying that you might think about: you can take a girl out of the bar but not the bar out of the girl.

Rather a sad fact

To me the only blinkered person is Celeste she should look at the reasons why the girls are there in the first place, and then attack the cause. She should not try to make a name for herself pretending to save a few

What exactly would be the cause? Prostitution has been around Thailand for centuries, and it is part of the culture to an extent. How could she possible change the law? She is doing what she can to help those that may want it, so why not. Is she hurting anyone in the process? I think not..except for the men who go with them.

I along with 2 mates contributed to the education and care of 3 young Thai girls throught the Ship Foundation in Bangkok.

These young kids had been abandoned by their parents in Klong Toey and were rescued and for a relatively small amount of money we could witness their growth as happy healthy young girls with a future.

Then one day 2 of the drunken drugged up fathers returned and were only interested in where the money was coming from and how they could get their hands on it.

They removed their daughters from the school and I never heard from them again.

Until Thais can be responsible parents, particularly the men more and more mostly rural kids will become part of the sex industry here.

Originally Posted by tjyflhol

Heard it many years ago, a tired cliche IMO, and I'm sure there are many members here who have taken girls out of the bar and now have lovely wives would agree with me.

I would not know i did not marry with one.

Originally Posted by tjyflhol

I also feel it's unfair to call her a liar who's aim is to gain fame regarding the help she feels she has given these girls.

Where do you think those girls in the photo will go as soon as this missionary pops out of the picture

Originally Posted by babygirl

What exactly would be the cause? Prostitution has been around Thailand for centuries, and it is part of the culture to an extent. How could she possible change the law? She is doing what she can to help those that may want it, so why not. Is she hurting anyone in the process? I think not..except for the men who go with them.

If you took time to read my earlier post where I wrote " They need education, a job with a decent wage and a real government that cares for the poor."

then you would know what I was taking about.

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

Until Thais can be responsible parents, particularly the men more and more mostly rural kids will become part of the sex industry here.

I agree 100% the parent need to be educated but the elite will not allow this

I think like in most developed countries the Thai govt. also needs to force some kind of responsibility on parents.

They removed their daughters from the school and I never heard from them again.

This couldn't happen in the UK for example, compulsory schooling for kids or the parents get punished. Not to mention that many drugged up drunken parents have their children taken away and put in social care systems.

Unfortunately it's because of situations like this that many girls have very limited choices in Thailand if they wish to get anywhere in life, and because out of these limited options many choose to work in the sex trade, it gives people the false impression that they are in a position they want to be in, happy and not in need of help.

Sad end to your story LT, but kudos for making the effort.

Originally Posted by gjbkk

Originally Posted by tjyflhol

Heard it many years ago, a tired cliche IMO, and I'm sure there are many members here who have taken girls out of the bar and now have lovely wives would agree with me.

I would not know i did not marry with one.

Originally Posted by tjyflhol

I also feel it's unfair to call her a liar who's aim is to gain fame regarding the help she feels she has given these girls.

Where do you think those girls in the photo will go as soon as this missionary pops out of the picture

Originally Posted by babygirl

What exactly would be the cause? Prostitution has been around Thailand for centuries, and it is part of the culture to an extent. How could she possible change the law? She is doing what she can to help those that may want it, so why not. Is she hurting anyone in the process? I think not..except for the men who go with them.

If you took time to read my earlier post where I wrote " They need education, a job with a decent wage and a real government that cares for the poor."

then you would know what I was taking about.

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

Until Thais can be responsible parents, particularly the men more and more mostly rural kids will become part of the sex industry here.

I agree 100% the parent need to be educated but the elite will not allow this

I have looked, and you have not said that. All I saw in the back pages was your disgusting comments on the girls looks.

Originally Posted by tjyflhol

I also feel it's unfair to call her a liar who's aim is to gain fame regarding the help she feels she has given these girls.

Where do you think those girls in the photo will go as soon as this missionary pops out of the picture[/quote]

Most, if not all will go back into prostitution.

That doesn't mean that Celeste is lying to make a name for herself as you claimed.

Originally Posted by gjbkk

Originally Posted by tjyflhol

Heard it many years ago, a tired cliche IMO, and I'm sure there are many members here who have taken girls out of the bar and now have lovely wives would agree with me.

I would not know i did not marry with one.

Yet you seemed to confident enough with your knowledge of bar girls to be able to repeat that tired cliche easily enough.

Is your knowledge of Thailand and the people in it really only limited to what you have personally experienced? Do other people's experiences not count at all?

At this point I'm not sure whether you are being disingenuous or are actually incapable of participating in a reasoned debate.

I am sure there are a lot of girls unhappy working in the bars,

but again they would also be unhappy working in a shoe factory, in any jobs, the majority of people hate their work

The younger ones, strangely, always seem to enjoy the bars, it's new and they are having fun, it's the old ones who seem to be depressed and without any options. Where are the volunteers then ? oh wait, it's not as much fun and rewarding saving old prostitutes as it is saving younger ones !!!

Those Christian savior ego trips are highly annoying and really all about self-promotion, they are only saving themselves from being bored

its not often we agree but Butterfly but here has a very good argument.

As for your comment typhoidhead. You seem to have a very unnatural interest in other peoples private lives. I would not even dream on commenting on people’s private relationship on a forum or privately.

I suggest you try and get off your high horse and try and address the initial arguments about this silly missionary and your ideas about kids being available in farang bars

As for your comment typhoidhead. You seem to have a very unnatural interest in other peoples private lives. I would not even dream on commenting on people’s private relationship on a forum or privately.

And now the real insults start. The last resort for a man that has has nothing intelligent to say.

The only comment I made, was that some members here have taken bar girls for wives (fact) and they are now not bargirls in any sense of the word.

Your comment was rather different, you repeated the cliche that they are still bar girls as 'you can take the girl out of the bar, but not the bar out of the girl'.

And then 5 minutes later claimed that in actual fact you have no knowledge of bargirls as wives because you have never married one.

Merely a cliche repeater and a report reader, with no real first hand knowledge of the country, and yet trying so desperately to pretend otherwise.

I suggest you try and get off your high horse and try and address the initial arguments about this silly missionary and your ideas about kids being available in farang bars

All arguments have been addressed, I've made many reasoned points here and offered them up for discussion, whereas you have just embarrassed yourself by resorting to silly insults and disingenuity.

In fact it may not be disingenuity, you may very well be as dumb as you are coming across in this debate.

Now would you like to continue with debate or insults? My points have been made so I'm quite happy to go either way with you now.

^ it's a bit pointless though, so really it doesn't accomplish anything

couldn't she just help poor children instead ? I think "prostitution" has always been a hot agenda for those Christian freaks, and they are not doing it for a charitable purpose but just to "strengthen" their faith or their agenda.

Like I said, they are not really interested in helping, because to be effective, it would take much more, but they don't do it, so instead they are doing something completely pointless

it's not charity, only a superficial and "artistic" vision of charity

Originally Posted by Butterfly

it's the old ones who seem to be depressed and without any options

It's just like when you go to buy a new dog, you always pick the young cute ones and leave the older one's for the inevitable needle.

I supported some foundations in Bangkok which were totally funded by expatriates and I did see some success stories but mostly it ended in tears.

Whilst the sex industry here supposedly offers a lot more than what these people get out of their own rural communities they will always look the other way and when they send their daughters out to work in Tesco Lotus and 7Eleven "cough".

The problem I have always had here is that a lot of fathers sit up in their villages getting pissed or smoking opium and looking forward to their monthly wedge from their daughters knowing full well how they are making this money.

No amount of money or education will eradicate the ingrown laziness of the males here I am afraid. It seems to be part of their priveldge and when being born a male.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

^ it's a bit pointless though, so really it doesn't accomplish anything

couldn't she just help poor children instead ? I think "prostitution" has always been a hot agenda for those Christian freaks, and they are not doing it for a charitable purpose but just to "strengthen" their faith or their agenda.

Like I said, they are not really interested in helping, because to be effective, it would take much more, but they don't do it, so instead they are doing something completely pointless

it's not charity, only a superficial and "artistic" vision of charity

We've gone through these points BF, put down your overly warmed foie gras and have a read of the whole thread.

The problem I have always had here is that a lot of fathers sit up in their villages getting pissed or smoking opium and looking forward to their monthly wedge from their daughters knowing full well how they are making this money.

No amount of money or education will eradicate the ingrown laziness of the males here I am afraid. It seems to be part of their priveldge and when being born a male.

And of course just as many mothers are also looking forward to their daughter's monthly wedge whilst getting pissed in the village and gambling the money away.

Don't know much about villagers smoking opium though, never heard of a great deal of that, the problem is mainly booze in my experience.

Something you've witnessed is it LT?

It's interesting that many posters criticise families for allowing their daughters to go into prostitution, or their fathers for living off their earnings, or their government for not providing a good education, or the police for their corruption or any number of other factors but seem remarkably unwilling to criticise their customers for abusing their superior purchasing power. Families, governments, punters: they're all in the wrong.

Originally Posted by tjyflhol

Don't know much about villagers smoking opium though, never heard of a great deal of that, the problem is mainly booze in my experience. Something you've witnessed is it LT?

I particularly used the opium reference to make a point Maddy although I have seen a lot of men laying around chewing beatlenuts of late.

Thai males are taught little or no responsibility and from the day they are born and largely expect that the female part of the family will wait on them hand and foot for life.

If you would envisage there are 1,000,000 young girls under 20 working as prostitutes in Thailand there are 1,000,000 fathers, husbands and boyfriends that can do something about stopping this and if they could get off their arses and doing something constructive.

From my experience most of these 1,000,000 males couldn't give a fvck, lazy cvnts that they are and you know what it is part of their culture and upbringing.

I will repeat what I have stated on many occassions..........take the females out of Thailand and you have absolutely nothing but a swamp full of lazy crocodiles.

My answer was specific to your statement.

However I have had no personal experience but I am aware of several problems people have had but I also know a truly genuine couple that are seriously happy together but then they own a bar.

Sadly you have edited most of your argument so we will never know I am not the least embarrassed about my remarks on this thread. Silly posts here rightly deserve insults if you don’t like it then I suggest you should join TV.

I will continue my debate with insults when I feel they are deemed to be necessary.

If you would envisage there are 1,000,000 young girls under 20 working as prostitutes in Thailand there are 1,000,000 fathers, husbands and boyfriends that can do something about stopping this and if they could get off their arses and doing something constructive.

From my experience most of these 1,000,000 males couldn't give a fvck, lazy cvnts that they are and you know what it is part of their culture and upbringing.

I think that does go for a lot of the women that push their daughters into prostitution also though. It's not all a one sided affair.