Thread: The strongest economy in the world

Also the world is much different today than it was 15 years ago. I couldn't be sitting here chatting with someone in the US or Africa from my home in Thailand in '93. Demographics are changing faster and faster because of ease of mobility and the world is a much smaller place. Economies are far more integrated today.

The scope of problems though is far smaller than it was in the 40s or 70s for example. People like to believe they're living in The Moment. What's happening in the world now is IMPORTANT. Well, in my opinion, it ain't. Comparatively.

Here's a lecture with powerpoint by Elizabeth Warren. Lots of data by both government statistic sources and private research.

This is happening, and it will continue. No, this is not negative or gloom & doom. But it is reality.

^ It's OK. I'm poor anyway so it won't affect me.

So, I wonder where SK is now? Actually, I don't want to know.

Here's another article, and I encorage all to spend the time and watch professor of Harvad of commercial real estate late, Elizabeth Warren give her lecture above on you tube.

As income gap widens, recession fears grow

Incomes fell for poor and stagnated for middle-class families since late 1990s, making it tougher for them to weather economic downturn.


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By Tami Luhby, CNNMoney.com senior writer
April 9, 2008: 4:42 AM EDT


w results


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Poor and middle-class families are entering the recession in a precarious situation due in part to declining or stagnant income growth, a study released Wednesday has found.

Incomes, on average, have declined by 2.5% among the bottom fifth of families since the late 1990s, while inching up by just 1.3% for those in the middle fifth of households, according to an analysis by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities and the Economic Policy Institute, two liberal think tanks.

The wealthiest slice of Americans, however, saw their incomes rise by 9%.
The average income of the bottom fifth of families was $18,116; the middle fifth, $50,434; and the wealthiest fifth, $132,131.

Unlike what happened during the economic boom of the 1990s, lower- and middle-class families did not share in the prosperity of recent years, the report found. In fact, the United States hashad its longest jobless recovery and slowest rate of payroll growth during this decade.

"We're worried about the impact of the downturn on the families whose incomes haven't recovered from the last recession," said Jared Bernstein, Economic Policy Institute senior economist and co-author of the report.

Link: Harder to handle widening income gap in recession - Apr. 9, 2008

Is Storekeeper around? I haven't seen him lately? Where is he?

Economy, debt weighing on middle class

By HOPE YEN, Associated Press Writer 34 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Growing numbers of middle-class Americans say they aren't better off than they were five years ago, reflecting economic pressures amid growing debt, a study released Wednesday shows.


Their short-term assessment of personal progress, according to the study, is the worst it's been in nearly half a century.


The survey by the Pew Research Center, a Washington-based organization, paints a mixed picture for the 53 percent of adults in the country who define themselves as "middle class," with household incomes ranging from below $40,000 to more than $100,000.


It found that a majority of Americans said they haven't progressed in the last five years. One in four, or 25 percent, said their economic situation had not improved, while 31 percent said they had fallen backward. Those numbers together are the highest since the survey question was first asked in 1964. Among the middle class, 54 percent said they had made no progress (26 percent) or fallen back (28 percent).


Asked about their financial experiences in the past year, 53 percent of middle-class people said they had to cut spending because money was tight. About one in five said they had trouble getting or paying for medical care, while 10 percent reported they had been laid off or otherwise lost their jobs.

Link: Economy, debt weighing on middle class - Yahoo! News

The economy has little to do with the President but the American public is foolish and ignorant enough to blame the Executive.

Retards.

Only 27 percent are happy with his job on the economy, which threatens to enter a recession and which many national surveys show is voters' top worry.

Entire: Bush's public approval reaches new low - The White House - MSNBC.com

Moonlighting....at jobs that pay minimum wage. Doesn't sound like the strongest economy in the world.

Moonlighting appears to be back in vogue. But it’s not because people want to expand their job horizons and try new careers. It’s because they need money. Money to deal with recessionary pressures — everything from inflation to fears they may lose their primary jobs.

Another big reason, according to Robert Reich, former labor secretary under the Clinton Administration, is "because wages are falling, adjusted for inflation."

The number of workers in the United States who have a full-time job and also have a part-time job on the side has risen about 5 percent to 4.17 million in 2007 from 3.98 million the prior year, according to Department of Labor statistics.
"We’re starting to see more moonlighting by fear," says Christine Durst, director of research for RatRaceRebellion.com, a work-at-home job-leads site. "We usually see moonlighting by choice."

The number of workers in the United States who have a full-time job and also have a part-time job on the side has risen about 5 percent......in 2007....according to Department of Labor statistics.
"We’re starting to see more moonlighting by fear," says Christine Durst, director of research for RatRaceRebellion.com, a work-at-home job-leads site. "We usually see moonlighting by choice."

Link: More workers forced to try moonlighting - Careers - MSNBC.com

Originally Posted by Milkman

The economy has little to do with the President but the American public is foolish and ignorant enough to blame the Executive.

Retards.

Only 27 percent are happy with his job on the economy, which threatens to enter a recession and which many national surveys show is voters' top worry.

Entire: Bush's public approval reaches new low - The White House - MSNBC.com

Well they feel even worse about congress - 23% approval:
http://www.pollingreport.com/CongJob.htm

Originally Posted by Bugs

Originally Posted by Milkman

The economy has little to do with the President but the American public is foolish and ignorant enough to blame the Executive.

Retards.

Only 27 percent are happy with his job on the economy, which threatens to enter a recession and which many national surveys show is voters' top worry.

Entire: Bush's public approval reaches new low - The White House - MSNBC.com

Well they feel even worse about congress - 23% approval:
http://www.pollingreport.com/CongJob.htm

I agree, bugs. I should have noted that.

Congress, SUX.

They are just as wasteful, destructive to our future, and useless.

many people are upset with congress because they haven't stopped bush's war.

Originally Posted by raycarey

many people are upset with congress because they haven't stopped bush's war.

Yea, they are so upset because of that. That's why congress has been so trigger shy about stopping the funding for "Bush's war".

Maybe they are afraid too many people would agree with their actions if they did cut off funding?

Originally Posted by Bugs

Yea, they are so upset because of that.

yeah, they are.

Originally Posted by Bugs

Maybe they are afraid too many people would agree with their actions if they did cut off funding?

if congress did have the courage to cut off funding for bush's war, the approval ratings of congress would likely more than double.

the most recent data i could bring up in a quick search is from october....feel free to post more recent data.

FALLING CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL RATINGS

Democrats are largely responsible for the Congress's plummeting approval rating. The party suffered a 20-point drop, between April and the end of September. This drop is largely attributable to a huge chunk of the party's liberal base that is furious with Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) for not turning back Bush's war policies.


Bush's approval rating is stuck at 33 percent, essentially unchanged for the entire year, while 64 percent disapprove of his job performance.


The poll data shows that the war in Iraq is no longer just Bush's political albatross, but is dragging the Congress into a similarly unpopular depth.

Iraq Pulls Down Poll Numbers for Bush and Congress - Capitol Briefing

Consumer spending will decline and creditors have already tightened up their lending to individuals and companies.

"We have a deadly combination of commodity price inflation and credit contraction," said University of Maryland economics professor Peter Morici. "It's tough to imagine a worse combination. In a worst case scenario, the recession could last several years."

Link: Recession could be longer than current forecasts - Apr. 14, 2008

Originally Posted by Bugs

So what you are saying........

errrr...what i'm saying is what i posted.

Americans can point their fingers at the politicians all they want.

It would do any good because there's not much the politicians can do about the economy, in general.

The gov can apply some bandaid, like it has recently done (e.g. Bear Stearns) but in general the gov cannot do much.

as for the "strongest economy in the world".....did anyone notice that the reason retail sales figures were up last month was because of high gas prices?

Originally Posted by raycarey

as for the "strongest economy in the world".....did anyone notice that the reason retail sales figures were up last month was because of high gas prices?

And it's all GWB's fault too, right?

i disagree with MM.....the bush recession is directly related to his failed economic policies.

Originally Posted by raycarey

i disagree with MM.....the bush recession is directly related to his failed economic policies.

Like tax cuts, eh?

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Like tax cuts, eh?

during a war (that has no end in sight) which is costing $12 billion/month? with a deficit and debt that are out of control?

YES.

you see, that's called fiscal responsiblity. perhaps you've never heard of it.

what's especially lamentable is that the primary beneficiaries were the uber-rich.

In relation to the last 5 posts, I do think some of GWB's fiscal policies have hurt the US and will hurt it in the future:

1. Medicare expansion

2. Big government spending: 9 trillion dollar debt, of which the annual interest must be paid. Borrowing money from China in the form of T-bills.


Tax cuts? OK, from 39% to 35% for the top tax bracket and some other cuts.

So what?

Congress and all politicians do not address the serious problems of the US.

Social Security, Medicare, debt, massive borrowing which has led partly to the decline of the dollar (even though I think GWB wants a weaker dollar).

Today, I just read that GWB, released $200 million dollars to help people in the third world eat, because of the hire food prices.

Growing number of economists worry that second-half recovery is out of reach and that recession will be longer and more painful than current forecasts.


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- There is little debate about whether the U.S. economy is in a recession. The question is how painful and long the downturn will be.

There is a growing fear among some economists that the recession will be particularly bad.

"We just can't believe it's going to be short. The question is how bad can it get? The situation is moving more towards severe than towards mild," said Allen Sinai, chief global economist for Decision Economics.

According to the National Bureau of Economic Research, the firm that officially determines when recessions begin and end, the last two recessions (2001 and 1990-1991) each lasted 8 months.

But Sinai and other economists cited numerous economic headwinds, including tight credit, falling home prices and mounting losses for banks, as reasons why this downturn could last longer and be more painful than seen in those last two recessions, with more job losses and a sharper drop in economic activity.

In addition to the drag on the economy from rising job losses, they also pointed to record high commodity prices and plunging confidence as factors that could cut into consumer spending.

Recession could be longer than current forecasts - Apr. 14, 2008

Most recessions only last 6 - 10 months. My guess is this one will be longer.
The large loss posted by Wachovia- and it's 8 billion emergency capital raising- was pretty sobering. This is the 4th or 5th biggest US bank. Other banks and financial institutions are reporting in coming weeks, and the news is expected to be pretty bad.

Originally Posted by Milkman

Tax cuts? OK, from 39% to 35% for the top tax bracket and some other cuts. So what?

so what?


4% on 50,000 people making $1 million is 2 billion dollars. that's a lot of money---granted it pays for less than a week for the quagmire in iraq, but imagine how many people that could feed or provide health care for, or help fund research into renewable sources of energy.

tax cuts for the uber-rich during a war that has no end in sight? insanity.

Oh Christ, this old argument that the most successful, most risk-taking, and most productive members of society have to subsidize the fucking loser risk averse has got to go.

Then again, I guess the mediocre teachers or other amongst us would disagree. Mediocre members of society like, whom shall we mention?