it appears obama's got the 60 votes needed to crush the obstructionists in the senate.
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it appears obama's got the 60 votes needed to crush the obstructionists in the senate.
Good quote actually- I suppose with all the money being thrown about, the Lobbyists are in a feeding frenzy. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Texpat
Senators have reached a tentative deal on a version of President Obama's economic stimulus plan, including about $805 billion in spending and tax cuts, that will win enough Republican votes to move forward.
Sens. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania and Susan Collins of Maine appeared to be the critical Republicans to sign onto the bill, giving Democrats the 60 votes needed to advance to a final vote.
Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said he doubts a vote will take place Friday night, suggesting the Senate will act sometime next week. As Majority Leader Harry Reid reconvened the session on the Senate floor Friday night, Sen. John Kyl, R-Ariz., told FOX News it's looking like action will come Sunday.
As part of the deal, spending in the bill was reduced while tax cuts were increased.
Obama is pushing for the massive spending plan to jump-start the economy, which otherwise, he says, could be headed for "catastrophe."
Specter said Friday night that action was "very necessary," and this bill, though not perfect, is better than inaction.
"I think no one could argue with the fact that the situation would be much worse without this bill," Specter said at a news conference.
The president has taken an increasingly public approach to advocating the bill's passage, sitting for TV interviews early this week and planning trips to Indian and Florida next week to promote the measure. Polls suggest taxpayers are skeptical about the effectiveness of the plan.
Senators Reach Tentative Deal on $805B Economic Stimulus Bill - Presidential Politics | Political News - FOXNews.com
Less than $800 bil I heard and they vote on Tuesday.
The real deal eh? I fear that he is all talk.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly
OK, relevant comments to go along with this good video:
Pelosi is an idiot and BO has no balls...and that's a fact...:)
YouTube - Pelosi is an Idiot and Obama has No Balls...
^It's on-topic...& besides, it's pretty good too.
How about something worse than you could have imagined: 50 De-Stimulating Facts.
Summary:
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif$50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif$380 million in the Senate bill for the Women, Infants and Children program
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif$300 million for grants to combat violence against women
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif$2 billion for federal child-care block grants
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif$6 billion for university building projects
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif$15 billion for boosting Pell Grant college scholarships
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif$4 billion for job-training programs, including $1.2 billion for “youths” up to the age of 24
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif$1 billion for community-development block grants
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif$4.2 billion for “neighborhood stabilization activities”
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif$650 million for digital-TV coupons; $90 million to educate “vulnerable populations”
A trillion dollars in handouts, giveaways, leftist causes, and pure pork....:confused:
The bill sucks. The US needs credit running for business. Do that first to make new jobs. Tax cuts are good, but how do the unemployed benefit from tax cuts? Big dufus bill.
Instead of focusing on the compromises, we should rejoice in the great victory that the president's stimulus package really is.
Well, it's already happened. Barely two weeks into the job and President Barack Obama has compromised fundamental principles, timorously caved in to Republicans and conservative Democrats in the Senate and lost control of his agenda.
Or ... wait. Maybe it's the case that, a mere two weeks into the job, President Obama has already changed the country's direction in remarkable ways. He's on the verge of a massive political victory when the Senate passes the stimulus package tomorrow, as expected, and the Republicans are apoplectic and divided and intellectually bankrupt....
Two months ago, people were talking nervously about a stimulus package worth about $400bn. Now? Assuming the Senate and House of Representatives more or less split the difference between their two versions of the bill - they will likely iron those out this week and vote on the final passage of the new product by the week's end - we're talking twice that, with at least $500bn in new spending (the rest is tax cuts). That is, by some distance, the largest public spending bill ever conceived in the US.
Republicans are in disarray. First, this approach goes against everything they believe. Second, they are suddenly losing an argument that they thought they were winning. To hear cable television tell the story last week, they had Obama on the ropes. Support for the package was allegedly sinking like a stone in the country. Then he goes out and gives a grand total of one speech, not even one of his better ones, and bam, suddenly they're losing. They must be absolutely irate - and privately very, very nervous about the future....
Liberals should press the administration for the most progressive outcome possible. That's fine and laudable. But at the same time, let's understand that they got about 80% of what they wanted here, and getting 80% of what you want is awfully rare, in politics or marriage or at the office or anywhere.
I'm nervous, too, about whether the bill will work. But meanwhile, its impending passage sets the country on a dramatically different course to the one it's pursued over the last eight years (the last 30, really). To me, that's hardly a stinker. In fact, it smells rather nice. I love the smell of stimulus spending in the morning. It smells like ... victory.
Full Article- Michael Tomasky: Be happy, worried liberals. Obama's bill is a triumph | Comment is free | The Guardian
The Guardian is just a little more upbeat than Fox News. :)
Sounds better than a trillion dollar war. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
^ Sho, except when there's protectionist crap in the bill. That'll start a bladdy trade war.
Here's the working-class tax break: “$13 a week in take-home pay, falling to about $8 a week next January.” Don’t spend it all in one place!:rofl:
Thursday, February 12, 2009
Summary of final stimulus package
This is the final package reached by negotiators from the House and the Senate. Now both bodies have to vote one more time on the final combined package. Summary from the House and Senate majority Appropriations staff:
United States Congress
The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009
Creating Jobs, Supporting the States and Investing in Our Country’s Future
The United States is facing its deepest economic crisis since the Great Depression, one that calls for swift, bold action. The goals of this legislation are the same as they have been from day one: to strengthen the economy now and invest in our country’s future.
This legislation will create and save jobs; help state and local governments with their budget shortfalls to prevent deep cuts in basic services such as health, education, and law enforcement; cut taxes for working families and invest in the long-term health of our economy. We do all of this with unprecedented accountability, oversight and transparency so the American people know their money is being invested responsibly.
To accomplish these goals, The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act provides $311 billion in appropriations, including the following critical investments:
Investments in Infrastructure and Science - $120 billion
Investments in Health - $14.2 billion
Investments in Education and Training - $105.9 billion
Investments in Energy, including over $30 billion in infrastructure - $37.5 billion
Helping Americans Hit Hardest by the Economic Crisis - $24.3 billion
Law Enforcement, Oversight, Other Programs - $7.8 billion
Investments in Infrastructure and Science include:
Infrastructure Improvements
- $7.2 billion for Broadband to increase broadband access and usage in unserved and underserved areas of the Nation, which will better position the U.S. for economic growth, innovation, and job creation.
- $2.75 billion for the Department of Homeland Security to secure the homeland and promote economic activity, including $1 billion for airport baggage and checkpoint security, $430 million for construction of border points of entry, $210 million for construction of fire stations, $300 million for port, transit, and rail security, $280 million for border security technology and communication, and $240 million for the Coast Guard.
- $4.6 billion in funding for the Corps of Engineers.
- $1.2 billion for VA hospital and medical facility construction and improvements, long-term care facilities for veterans, and improvements at VA national cemeteries.
- $3.1 billion for repair, restoration and improvement of public facilities at on public and tribal lands.
- $4.2 billion for Facilities Sustainment, Restoration and Modernization to be used to invest in energy efficiency projects and to improve the repair and modernization of Department of Defense facilities to include Defense Health facilities.
- $2.33 billion for Department of Defense Facilities including quality of life and family-friendly military improvement projects such as family housing, hospitals, and child care centers.
- $2.25 billion through HOME and the Low Income Housing Tax Credit program to fill financing gaps caused by the credit freeze and get stalled housing development projects moving.
- $1 billion for the Community Development Block Grant program for community and economic development projects including housing and services for those hit hard by tough economic times.
- $1 billion for the Bureau of Reclamation to provide clean, reliable drinking water to rural areas and to ensure adequate water supply to western localities impacted by drought.
Transportation
- $27.5 billion is included for highway investments
- $8.4 billion for investments in public transportation.
- $1.5 billion for competitive grants to state and local governments for transportation investments.
- $1.3 billion for investments in our air transportation system.
- $9.3 billion for investments in rail transportation, including Amtrak, High Speed and Intercity Rail.
Public Housing
- $4 billion to the public housing capital fund to enable local public housing agencies to address a $32 billion backlog in capital needs -- especially those improving energy efficiency in aging buildings.
- $2 billion for full-year payments to owners receiving Section 8 project-based rental assistance.
- $2 billion for the redevelopment of abandoned and foreclosed homes.
- $1.5 billion for homeless prevention activities, which will be sent out to states, cities and local governments through the emergency shelter grant formula.
- $250 million is included for energy retrofitting and green investments in HUD-assisted housing projects.
Environmental Clean-Up/Clean Water
- $6 billion is directed towards environmental cleanup of former weapon production and energy research sites.
- $6 billion for local clean and drinking water infrastructure improvements.
- $1.2 billion for EPA’s nationwide environmental cleanup programs, including Superfund.
- $1.28 billion to support $3.8 billion in loans and grants for needed water and waste disposal facilities in rural areas.
Science
- $1 billion total for NASA.
- $3 billion total for National Science Foundation (NSF).
- $2 billion total for Science at the Department of Energy including $400 million for the Advanced Research Projects Agency—Energy (ARPA-E).
- $830 million total for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association (NOAA).
Investments in Health include:
- $19 billion, including $2 billion in discretionary funds and $17 billion for investments and incentives through Medicare and Medicaid to ensure widespread adoption and use of interoperable health information technology (IT). This provision will grow jobs in the information technology sector, and will jumpstart efforts to increase the use of health IT in doctors’ offices, hospitals and other medical facilities. This will reduce health care costs and improve the quality of health care for all Americans.
- $1 billion for prevention and wellness programs to fight preventable diseases and conditions with evidence-based strategies.
- $10 billion to conduct biomedical research in areas such as cancer, Alzheimer’s, heart disease and stem cells, and to improve NIH facilities.
- $1.1 billion to the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, NIH and the HHS Office of the Secretary to evaluate the relative effectiveness of different health care services and treatment options.
Investments in Education and Training include:
- $53.6 billion for the State Fiscal Stabilization Fund, including $39.5 billion to local school districts using existing funding formulas, which can be used for preventing cutbacks, preventing layoffs, school modernization, or other purposes; $5 billion to states as bonus grants for meeting key performance measures in education; and $8.8 billion to states for high priority needs such as public safety and other critical services, which may include education and for modernization, renovation and repairs of public school facilities and institutions of higher education facilities.
- $13 billion for Title 1 to help close the achievement gap and enable disadvantaged students to reach their potential.
- $12.2 billion for Special Education/IDEA to improve educational outcomes for disabled children. This level of funding will increase the Federal share of special education services to its highest level ever.
- $15.6 billion to increase the maximum Pell Grant by $500. This aid will help 7 million students pursue postsecondary education.
- $3.95 billion for job training including State formula grants for adult, dislocated worker, and youth programs (including $1.2 billion to create up to one million summer jobs for youth).
Investments in Energy include:
- $4.5 billion for repair of federal buildings to increase energy efficiency using green technology.
- $3.4 billion for Fossil Energy research and development.
- $11 billion for smart-grid related activities, including work to modernize the electric grid.
- $6.3 billion for Energy Efficiency and Conservation Grants.
- $5 billion for the Weatherization Assistance Program.
- $2.5 billion for energy efficiency and renewable energy research.
- $2 billion in grant funding for the manufacturing of advanced batteries systems and components and vehicle batteries that are produced in the United States.
- $6 billion for new loan guarantees aimed at standard renewable projects such as wind or solar projects and for electricity transmission projects.
- $1 billion for other energy efficiency programs including alternative fuel trucks and buses, transportation charging infrastructure, and smart and energy efficient appliances.
Help for Workers and Families Hardest Hit by the Economic Crisis includes:
- $21 billion in COBRA premium assistance provides a 65% subsidy for up to nine months to help workers who lose their jobs keep health coverage.
- $19.9 billion for additional Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), formerly Food Stamps, to increase the benefit by 13.6 percent.
- Child Care Development Block Grant: $2 billion to provide quality child care services for an additional 300,000 children in low-income families who increasingly are unable to afford the high cost of day care.
- Head Start & Early Head Start: $2.1 billion to allow an additional 124,000 children to participate in this program, which provides development, educational, health, nutritional, social and other activities that prepare children to succeed in school.
- State and Local Law Enforcement: $4 billion total to support law enforcement efforts.
- $555 million to expand the Department of Defense Homeowners Assistance Program (HAP) during the national mortgage crisis.
Unprecedented Oversight, Accountability and Transparency
The American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan provides unprecedented oversight, accountability, and transparency to ensure that taxpayer dollars are invested effectively, efficiently, and as quickly as possible.
- Funds are distributed whenever possible through existing formulas and programs that have proven track records and accountability measures already in place.
- Numerous provisions in the bill provide for expedited but effective obligation of funds so that dollars are invested in the economy as quickly as possible.
- The Government Accountability Office and the Inspectors General are provided additional funding for auditing and investigating recovery spending.
- A new Recovery Act Accountability and Transparency Board will coordinate and conduct oversight of recovery spending and provide early warning of problems.
- A special website will provide transparency by posting information about recovery spending, including grants, contracts, and all oversight activities.
- State and local whistleblowers who report fraud and abuse are protected.
- There are no earmarks in this bill.
Link: http://www.americablog.com/2009/02/summary-of-final-stimulus-package.html
^
Which is nothing but a
Full Scale Assault on Capitalism...:confused:
Go here for an objective analysis...
If so, it started during the Bush administration. :mid:Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
All those debates about a Welfare or Nanny state seem so passe' now- the reality is that when push comes to shove, our system is a Nanny state for the Rich, big business and the finance sector.
^ Yep, anything goes wrong in the next four years it's Bush's fault. 555555 The pkg is full of so much pork already. Hey, biz needs lines of credit to do biz and keep their employees. What's this new pkg? Spending for unionised govt workers (who pays their wages in the end? duh) and short-term projects to build or renovate govt stuff and a bunch of money for long-term stuff -- how is long-term sh*t gonna boost the economy NOW?
The real question is, would it have been a riskier gamble to do something, or do nothing? I think the crux of the matter is whether or not the rescue packages in various nations restore some confidence in the economy and finance sector, and hence consumption and investment.
We'll have to wait and see, but I have to say the gov't just sitting on it's hands and doing nothing was not a palatable alternative- unless you think a full blown Depression was the best answer, as some people do. As far as the Republican objections go, they come down to a few things mainly-
More money to be spent on tax cuts- especially for the Rich. I disagree, and this is a perennial Republican agenda anyway.
Less money spent on public works and infrastructure- I disagree, the US is faced with aging infrastructure in many areas. Regardless of the crisis, investment is needed- and now seems an optimal time to spark consumption by getting it underway.
Too much money being spent overall- Dunno frankly, remains to be seen.
Keynesian packages have worked in the past, and I hope this one does too.
Not like the Dem's would make political capital out of a thing like that now. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon
But the fact remains, the bailouts started during the Bush term. Not exactly small, either.
Caterpillar CEO Contradicts President on Whether Stimulus Will Allow Him to Re-Hire Laid Off Workers
EAST PEORIA, ILL. -- President Obama today repeated the claim we asked about yesterday at the press briefing that Jim Owens, the CEO of Caterpillar, Inc., "said that if Congress passes our plan, this company will be able to rehire some of the folks who were just laid off."
Caterpillar announced 22,000 layoffs last month.
But after the president left the event, Owens said the exact opposite.
I don't like the stimulus. Many are advocating it's better to let things run its course.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
This is brief, and he may be playing grandstand politics. With all of the spending during the GWB term and GOP control, where was Boehner, then?
Still, I hear his point:
YouTube - GOP Leader Boehner Floor Speech Opposing Democrats' Trillion-Dollar Spending Bill
this is still being debated by academics, they certainly work when in a deep recession, or depression, however, in this case, it might come a bit too early, hence having a negative effect in terms of higher inflation in the future, and screwing up Real GDP.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
Pumping $$$ into the banking system is not going to automatically jump start the economy... Demand is down across all market sectors, affecting manufacturing, distribution and sales...Consumer confidence is in the toilet... The economic recovery depends on consumers to start spending again... Pumping all the pork into this bill and driving up the national debt doesn't instill much confidence in Joe Sixpack...
I just loved the fact that Congress was asked to vote on the recovery bill in it's final form before even getting a chance to read it...
Senate Passes The Economic Stimulus Bill
by Barbara Morrill aka BarbinMD
Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 07:48:13 PM PST
Following the House of Representative's lead, the U.S. Senate has passed the $789 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan, by a vote of 60 - 38.
While Senate Republicans weren't able to match their House brethren's perfect, browbeating effort, they did remain true to their family values by forcing Sherrod Brown to fly back from Ohio, where he was attending his mother's wake, to cast the crucial 60th and deciding vote. Comity ain't what it used to be.
President Obama is expected to sign the bill on Monday.
So much of our economic system depends upon this elusive, slippery thing called 'confidence'. In fact, if the great unwashed public loses it's faith in certain things, there is virtually no economic system left.
For example, money is actually worthless unless you believe otherwise- it has no intrinsic value. Most of the 'Broad' money sloshing around the system is actually debt, but even going down to hard cash- well, it is worth nothing. The days when you could take it to a Central bank and exchange it for gold are long gone- all you can do now is exchange it for more worthless paper money. As for gold, well there are some industrial uses for it but at the end of the day what else is it but an expensive doorstop, unless you believe otherwise?
An awful lot of the debt triangle that is our monetary system is debt on property. Property carries a certain intrinsic value- you can live in it. But what is an adequate valuation model, beyond perhaps construction cost? The quickest answer is 'supply and demand', or what the market will pay. But that means, if there is no demand, then property value can in fact be zero. Similarly Banks- several of which have more debt obligations than they have realisable assets- yet they still have a market capitalisation of billions. One can ask- Why? Even profitable businesses come under the microscope, if you don't think the 'money' they earn is worth anything- and in fact, intrinsically it isn't.
A pluralistic, democratic society to an extent allows, even encourages differing opinions and dissent within a legal and societal framework. Nowhere is this more obvious than in our Parliamentary system- it is basically the role of the Opposition to question the job of the incumbent government. It is no surprise then that this same thing applies to the massive Bailout packages happening around the world.
But therein lies a conundrum. To the extent that Opposition is 'succesful' in criticising and questioning government bailouts, they erode the same thing that, at the end of the day, the Bailouts are designed to restore- Public Confidence. Confidence that, ultimately, is based on little more than smoke and mirrors.
Little of the current debate is based on the ultimate question- should there be any government intervention at all, or should it just be left to the market to sort itself out? For right or for wrong, it is pretty much accepted that government needs to intervene. So the Opposition debates are basically about What to spend the money on, and How Much to spend.
The debates are valid, but as they drag on they start to miss the point. 'Micro managing' the massive US bailout package is a nonsensical proposition- we are in uncharted territory, nobody actually really knows how the money is best spent. So predictably, the debates become partisan and charged with political agendas. The Left wants more of the money to go to 'social' agendas and public works. The Right wants more of the money to go to Tax cuts. The actual bailout package is a mishmash of both, the argument over percentage allocations. And as it drags on, it damages the very confidence it is designed to restore. To the extent that the Bailout money restores business and consumer confidence, it is frankly a secondary matter what the money is actually spent on.
It is a damn good thing actually that the current President carries a safe majority- and I say this regardless of whether he were Rep or Dem. Because if he didn't, and the bailout package were held up interminably in a bickering, Hung Parliament it would be doomed from the start- having destroyed the very confidence it was designed to restore. At the end of the day, this whole thing revolves around that. There is No guarantee of success, at all.
If it fails, we are in for tough times.
Ya, that $30 mil for Pelosi's marshland and mouse protection is rreal good stimulus. How many jobs from that? This bill sucks.