Thread: Israel Bombs Gaza

Originally Posted by daveboy

Israeli F-16 bombers have launched a series of air strikes against key targets in the Gaza Strip, killing at least 155 people, medical chiefs say.

MERRY F'ING CHRISTMAS ROCKET TOSSERS!

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Israelis, like Americans, terrorizing and killing civilians

this is an obvious abuse of the Geneva Convention and other International charters

War Crime tribunal should start prosecuting those Israeli Nazi

Right, I guess you guys missed the part where Hamas incessantly tossed rockets into Israeli territory DURING A TRUCE, which Israel recognized without retaliating (until said truce expired).

What's the Geneva Convention say about military violations of agreed truce? I don't expect an answer, as the reality might interfere with your hate of Israel, I assume.

Personally, I have no problem with what Israel did, again -- and I am certainly NOT a huge friend of Israel...

Originally Posted by keda

Israel only targets civilians in overcrowded residential areas where the terrorists like to hide out, on the off chance that a stray missile might injure one or two.

I'm sorry, hate to correct your spelling, but I think you spelled 'Hamas' incorrectly, as it's spelled 'H.A.M.A.S', not 'i.s.r.a.e.l'

Hamas exclusively targets civilian areas with their rockets, and makes sure the rockets are 'enhanced' with shrapnel and ball bearings, so as to maximize collateral damage.

Israel generally performs surgical strikes, against Hamas targets - either individuals, or facilities. Since Hamas often uses human shield, often against the will of such 'shields', this is where you get the civilian casualties from.

This is well known, by the way, but would not fit your propagandistic needs, I assume.

Now, in summary, as I stated, I am no particular friend of Israel, and they certainly are far from being saints, and have plenty of crap on the resumé as well, but by and large, the Paleys and Hamas are an even further cry from the 'poor innocent victims' they make themselves out to be (i.e. rocket attacks during a signed truce). Personally, I feel the world would be a better place if that entire region in the middle east (with generous additional buffers in the surrounding regions) were to be obliterated - but we're not going to see that happen anytime soon.

I support of my prior post:

One Hand Clapping » Blog Archive » Israel losing patience with Hamas rockets

Counterterrorism Blog: Hezbollah's Dangerous Ball Bearings

Please note the descriptions and nature of the missiles used by Hamas and their ilk - as they are being exclusively targeted ONLY against civilians, with the goal of inflicting the maximum of civilians casualties, damages, and maiming.

Israel does not target civilians on purpose, as a primary target.

Originally Posted by DaffyDuck

Originally Posted by keda

Israel only targets civilians in overcrowded residential areas where the terrorists like to hide out, on the off chance that a stray missile might injure one or two.

I'm sorry, hate to correct your spelling, but I think you spelled 'Hamas' incorrectly, as it's spelled 'H.A.M.A.S', not 'i.s.r.a.e.l'

Hamas exclusively targets civilian areas with their rockets, and makes sure the rockets are 'enhanced' with shrapnel and ball bearings, so as to maximize collateral damage.

Israel generally performs surgical strikes, against Hamas targets - either individuals, or facilities. Since Hamas often uses human shield, often against the will of such 'shields', this is where you get the civilian casualties from.

This is well known, by the way, but would not fit your propagandistic needs, I assume.

Now, in summary, as I stated, I am no particular friend of Israel, and they certainly are far from being saints, and have plenty of crap on the resumé as well, but by and large, the Paleys and Hamas are an even further cry from the 'poor innocent victims' they make themselves out to be (i.e. rocket attacks during a signed truce). Personally, I feel the world would be a better place if that entire region in the middle east (with generous additional buffers in the surrounding regions) were to be obliterated - but we're not going to see that happen anytime soon.

Ulp...b-b-b-b-bu-but...

Originally Posted by spiff

Israel Bombs Gaza 28-12-2008 09:21 AM Jools You are obviously a Nazi

The nice thing about this thread is that it clearly brings out and identifies most dumb, uneducated people that blindly follow their faith of hatred and violence...

There is no further reason to continue this thread - invariably those invoking the 'Nazi' moniker against another poster demonstrate their utter lack of clue as to what 'Nazi' really means, or what it means to have been a victim of them.

I would have some choice words for those neanderthals, but as it is, I'd rather just invoke Godwin's Law, and be done with it.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by Jools

Being neither Jewish or Israeli,

then you must be some born-again Christian freak. Only them with the Israelis scums support blindly such a policy of violence and killing.

I take it, then, that you just identified yourself as a born-again christian freak (nice redundancy, btw), seeing as you fervently and blindly support a policy of deliberate violence and killing - and yes, you are.

Originally Posted by DaffyDuck

I support of my prior post:

One Hand Clapping » Blog Archive » Israel losing patience with Hamas rockets

Counterterrorism Blog: Hezbollah's Dangerous Ball Bearings

Please note the descriptions and nature of the missiles used by Hamas and their ilk - as they are being exclusively targeted ONLY against civilians, with the goal of inflicting the maximum of civilians casualties, damages, and maiming.

Israel does not target civilians on purpose, as a primary target.

Sorry mate, you got it wrong, Israel only targets civilians, as you can see they killed 200 civilians...can you show us a single terrorist in there, anywhere? No you can't, only civilians.

Hamas is fully justified in their actions because they're acting in the name of the All Merciful and Compassionate, he who commands the waves to wave and the clouds to get, er, cloudy, so the Geneva Convention is outranked, or do you claim manmade laws should dominate those of allah? Anyway Hamas only target military objectives, but the Israelis make sure their installations are well protected with civilians, usually women and children, for propaganda.

You are too emotional, step back and see things as they are.

Interesting timing for a war with an election only a month away. The government of Israel behind in the polls till they started bombing the Palestinians.


BBC NEWS | Middle East | Israel's mixed motives for strikes

"Israel's mixed motives for strikes"


"Israel holds parliamentary elections in just over a month's time.
The Israeli public has a generally low opinion about how their government has handled what they call "Hamastan" - Hamas-controlled Gaza. Until it started talking tough, the hawkish opposition leader, Binyamin Netanyahu, was leading in the polls. Now the gap has narrowed."



"It is also possible that Israel has decided to act against Hamas now, during the last days of a friendly Bush administration in the United States. The United States is arguably the only outside power Israel deeply cares about. President-elect Barack Obama is seen in Israel as being more sympathetic to the Palestinians. "

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Israel set for prolonged Gaza op

"The BBC's Katya Adler in Jerusalem says the timing of Israel's operation is significant, as Israeli politicians are keen to score points ahead of a general election in February."


"Although a six-month truce between Hamas and Israel was agreed earlier this year, it was regularly under strain and was allowed to lapse when it expired this month.
Hamas blamed Israel for the end of the ceasefire, saying it had not respected its terms, including the lifting of the blockade under which little more than humanitarian aid has been allowed into Gaza. Israel said it initially began easing the blockade, but this was halted when Hamas failed to fulfil what Israel says were agreed conditions, including ending all rocket fire and halting weapons smuggling."

^Good analyze by Katya Adler!

Originally Posted by keda

No, sTroller, not all Germans, but you are, aren't you? Come on, let it go, you'll feel much better...don't go for the same old twisted logic that you cannot be a nazi because you're German and not all Germans are nazis.

You are nuttering on well beyond what is called for, and evoking your trademark "logic" to twist off into absurdity as if this somehow makes it ok.
You're a nasty fascist and delusional nutcase.

Daffy has put it stronger than I would choose to, but he's on the ball on this one: "There is no further reason to continue this thread - invariably those invoking the 'Nazi' moniker against another poster demonstrate their utter lack of clue as to what 'Nazi' really means, or what it means to have been a victim of them."

I will not reply to this thread,
Everyone can see that Hamas has continually fired rockets into Israel and when they do, then Israel is bound to return with loaded bombays and do as they should if attacked and rockets into Israel is being attacked.

To Jools

Anti-sionist sure, but not anti jewish. And you calling people "sub-human scum" just show your true nature.

PS. I just hope you can write better than me in few languages other than your motherlanguage. If not, shut up.

Originally Posted by Wallalai

And you calling people "sub-human scum" just show your true nature.

Ironic

I wonder if this kind of label has been used before, in 20th century history?

Originally Posted by Jools

You have obviously been associating with the wrong people. Those who defend Palestine and defame Israel generally seek out like-minded associates.

Since when telling that killing civilians and children is defending Palestine. Both sides do wrong.

I'm maybe not very good at syntax anf grammary but you are not able to read and understand the content of a post. Racist.

Originally Posted by blackgang

I will not reply to this thread,
Everyone can see that Hamas has continually fired rockets into Israel and when they do, then Israel is bound to return with loaded bombays and do as they should if attacked and rockets into Israel is being attacked.

I guess some people don't know how to use the intertubes:

The Israel Situation: Rocket Attacks Increased During Truce

Gaza militants up rocket attacks as truce to expire (2nd Roundup)

Hamas: We want truce, despite rocket attacks - CNN.com

I guess it's telling that the simple fact of Hamas continuing and increasing rocket attacks DURING A TRUCE, is being conveniently ignored - well, not really surprising, now, is it, considering who we are dealing with.

Anyway, just wanted to add these links, before suggesting that this thread is well deserving of being moved to MKP...

DONE!

Originally Posted by sabang

The death toll from the Israeli bombings is estimated to be over 200. Hamas have killed one Israeli in retaliation, and as far as I am aware none over the last six months. Just a little bit disproportionate?

Only if you bury your head in the sand - see the links I just posted of continuing rocket attacks, and Israeli casualties, DURING THE TRUCE since it was brokered, six months ago.

Hamas: We want truce, despite rocket attacks - CNN.com

Please also note that Hamas fires rockets into Israel, maiming and killing **MANY** civilians, in retaliation of the Israeli killings of ONE of their commanders - this was back in June of 2008.

The Israel Situation: Rocket Attacks Increased During Truce

Please note the above link, which indicates that DURING THE TRUCE Israel was hit with 1,000 rockets more than prior in 2007.

In 2007, 1,200 rockets and 600 mortars were fired into Israel. In 2008, over 2,900 rockets have been fired into Israel, and the year is not even over yet!

If you believe that 2,900 rockets fired exclusively at civilian targets DURING A TRUCE have not had any civilian casualties as a result, then you would be a liar.

This is ridiculous!

Has continually fired rockets into Israel and Israel had every right to respond

It is how they responded though - bombs into area's crowded with children coming out of school

Could they have not hit their targets at night-time with the type of guided weapons they have?

Tit for tat killing of women, children and innocent civilians does no one any good - least of all Israel due to it being a sovereign state higher standards are expected of it that of terrorists

We should not forget though Israel's history - as well as being founded on the back of the worlds mis-placed guilt over the holocaust it was built on the back of terrorist groups and acts too

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Israelis, like Americans, terrorizing and killing civilians

this is an obvious abuse of the Geneva Convention and other International charters

War Crime tribunal should start prosecuting those Israeli Nazi

And shooting rockets into Israel is not?

Originally Posted by Wallalai

Originally Posted by Jools

The only bad thing about this operation is that, so far, they have only killed a paltry 200 of these sub-human scum. Israel is showing the world how to deal with a cancer that is eating civilization from the inside out. Bravo, chaps.

Killing civilians and childrens is pure barbarism. Then Israel is not better than the terrorists on the other side. And you're stupider than a cow shit to applause it.

Well, even if I´m no big fan of Israels politics the last 10 years I have to say that defending ones country should be okay in anyone's book! The fact is that Hamas are the coldest sons of bitches in the world, since they delibratly put their amo caches, their offices, their bomb factories in areas with a lot of civilians as well as kids because they now that they can use the dead population as a publicity stunt in a case of an attack!
It is an old tactic that they have used over and over again before but that have never been noticed in the western press!

Originally Posted by DaffyDuck

Quote: Originally Posted by sabang The death toll from the Israeli bombings is estimated to be over 200. Hamas have killed one Israeli in retaliation, and as far as I am aware none over the last six months. Just a little bit disproportionate?

Only if you bury your head in the sand - see the links I just posted of continuing rocket attacks, and Israeli casualties, DURING THE TRUCE since it was brokered, six months ago.

I looked at all three of the links you posted- none of them refer to any fatality caused by Hamas rockets during the 'ceasefire'. So I delved a bit deeper-

"Israel began its air and ground operations on February 29. The IDF's offensive in Gaza has killed more than 100 Palestinians in less than a week. In contrast Palestinian fired 150 rockets at Israel during a week which killed three Israelis, including two soldiers and a civilian."

2008 Israel–Gaza conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The last Israeli fatality I was able to find was February 2008 as above, when Hamas rockets killed three Israeli's- in that same week the IDF killed over 100 Palestinians. If you are able to find more deaths caused by the rocket fire, post them here- it will be few, if any. I am only aware of some injuries in the last six months.

More to the point:-

Palestinian deaths double since Annapolis

The death toll of Palestinians killed by Israelis has soared 100 percent since the U.S. sponsored November peace talks in Annapolis, according to Palestinian political leader Mustafa Barghouti.



The former Palestinian information minister and head of the Palestinian National Initiative political movement backed up his claim with data showing that the ratio of Palestinians to Israelis killed last year was the most unbalanced ever, at 40:1, up from 30:1 in 2006 and 4:1 from 2000-2005.


A report by the U.N.'s humanitarian office for Palestinian affairs, OCHA, stated that 44 Palestinians were killed in November alone. Most of these deaths were a direct result of Israeli-Palestinian violence, while 12 resulted from inter-Palestinian fighting. In the same month 127 Palestinians were injured.


This compares with one Israeli death and seven injuries in November. The total death toll for 2007 stands at 322 Palestinians and eight Israelis.

"We do not want anyone to die, Israeli or Palestinian, but this ratio is alarming. It is unacceptable to justify such large-scale killings under the pretext of security," Barghouti told the Maan News Agency, adding that five of the eight Israelis killed in 2007 were soldiers who died while carrying out military incursions inside the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

Palestinian deaths double since Annapolis - Middle East Times

There were far more Israeli's that died of drug overdoses or homicide in 2007 and 2008 than were killed by Palestinian resistance activities. Considering their country is illegally occupied or blockaded by Israel, most would consider this to be a considerable show of forebearance on the part of the Palestinians- especially when you look at the fatalities they suffer in return from Israeli activities.

Originally Posted by mancon

It is an old tactic that they have used over and over again before but that have never been noticed in the western press!

Oh, it has been 'noticed' and reported alright. It has also been noticed and reported that this doesn't stop Israel from targeting suspected launching sites wherever they may be located.

Right or wrong - debatable. But "unconditional support" for Israel - no, not from me.

I wonder why Hamas would continue to fire their rockets, if this is so ineffective, seems a stupid thing to do since Israel is known to retaliate the way it does. But then, this conflict extends well beyond what outsiders consider to be 'reasonable' - on both sides.

Originally Posted by sabang

The last Israeli fatality I was able to find was February 2008 as above

Here's a later one, but there is not much reporting to be found:
"Hamas rockets cause Israeli casualties
May 22, 2007 Shirel Friedman, 32, of Sderot was killed and another man moderately injured Monday evening (May 21) when a Kassam rocket hit a car at a commercial center in Sderot. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the Popular Resistance Committees all claimed responsibility for the attack. The fatal attack came during a meeting in Sderot between Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni and EU Foreign Policy Commissioner Javier Solana."


Just where do all these rockets go?

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by watterinja

Hamas can act -continually, but the world is shocked when Israel retaliates? Why?

The death toll from the Israeli bombings is estimated to be over 200. Hamas have killed one Israeli in retaliation, and as far as I am aware none over the last six months. Just a little bit disproportionate?

Israel has occupied Palestine since 1967, and Gaza in particular is subject to almost constant blockade- living conditions there are dreadful. The primitive Hamas rocket attacks on southern Israel are disruptive, and occasionally deadly, but nothing will change until concrete steps are taken to end the occupation.

Could you perhaps trace the 'Palestinian problem' back a few years to 1948 & the formation of the State of Israel? It could be good to review where these people came from. Why were they there - upon whose advice?

Did the Jews force them out upon the formation of the State of Israel?

Could it be that these people were coerced to leave Palestine prior to the State of Israel, in order for the external neighbours to go in & completely rout Israel? Could it be that, when Israel remained in place, that these neighbours used the displaced Palestinians as a ready excuse to pressurise Israel?

Is Israel solely to blame for the whole catastrophe?

Are some of you arguing on the basic assumption that Israel has no right to exist and should be destroyed with all men women and children?

Unless thats your basis I could not understand how anybody would condone the continuous firing of rockets at civil targets, however ineffective those missiles might be.
On the other hand if Israel hits back effectively targeting militants who are hiding among civilians it's regarded unproportional response.

I know that Israels actions are also not always ok but the difference to Hamas actions is enormous.

To just take the shootings by Hamas is not an acceptable option for Israel even knowing that hitting back will not solve the problem.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Are some of you arguing on the basic assumption that Israel has no right to exist

No, not I.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

condone the continuous firing of rockets at civil targets, however ineffective those missiles might be.

I don't, but I understand the Palestinians frustration.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

I know that Israels actions are also not always ok but the difference to Hamas actions is enormous

I don't agree- several of Israels actions have been horrific. I don't morally equivocate terrorism.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

hitting back will not solve the problem.

No it won't, although at a venal level one can understand the motivation. Land for Peace.