Thread: US bans arms sales to Venezuela!!!!!

i prefer this piece of cut and paste SK, by the enlightened and always enlightening John Pilger.

Chávez is, of course, a threat, especially to the United States. Like the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, who based their revolution on the English co-operative moment, and the moderate Allende in Chile, he offers the threat of an alternative way of developing a decent society: in other words, the threat of a good example in a continent where the majority of humanity has long suffered a Washington-designed peonage. In the US media in the 1980s, the "threat" of tiny Nicaragua was seriously debated until it was crushed. Venezuela is clearly being "softened up" for something similar. A US army publication, Doctrine for Asymmetric War against Venezuela, describes Chávez and the Bolivarian revolution as the "largest threat since the Soviet Union and Communism". When I said to Chávez that the US historically had had its way in Latin America, he replied: "Yes, and my assassination would come as no surprise. But the empire is in trouble, and the people of Venezuela will resist an attack. We ask only for the support of all true democrats."

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

But the empire is in trouble, and the people of Venezuela will resist an attack. We ask only for the support of all true democrats."

But of course he would not get support from any democracies who would suffer economically for defying the US.

You have to give it to Chavez for stirring nicely his shit with the US.

You have to watch "Revolution will not be televised"

Venezuela May Sell Jets to Iran

Associated Press
May 16, 2006 9:26 p.m.

CARACAS -- Venezuela's military is considering the possibility of selling its fleet of U.S.-made F-16 fighter jets to another country, perhaps Iran, in response to a U.S. ban on arms sales to President Hugo Chàvez's government, a Venezuelan military official said Tuesday.

Gen. Alberto Muller, a senior adviser to Mr. Chàvez, told the Associated Press he had recommended to the defense minister that Venezuela consider selling the 21 jets to another country.

Gen. Muller said he thought it was worthwhile to consider "the feasibility of a negotiation with Iran for the sale of those planes."

Even before the U.S. announced the ban on arms sales Monday, Washington had stopped selling Venezuela sensitive upgrades for the F-16s.

Gen. Muller said officials have been considering options for replacing the F-16s for some time. He said the military was in particular considering Russian Sukhoi Su-35 jet fighters, "which is the best jet fighter there is in the world right now."

Mr. Chàvez has previously warned he could share the U.S.-made F-16s with Cuba and China -- and look into buying new jets from Russia or China -- because he said Washington was not supplying parts for the planes as agreed. U.S. officials disputed that accusation, saying they were living up to their commitments under the deal.

U.S. officials have said Venezuela is bound under the 1982 contract to consult with Washington before transferring any F-16s to another country.

"The recommendation that I'm making to the minister, and which I will make to the president at the appropriate time, is that the [F-16s] be sold to a third party because if they aren't complying with their part of the agreement, we don't have any obligation to comply with our part," Gen. Muller told the AP.

The U.S. State Department, in announcing the ban on arms sales Monday, cited Venezuela's close relations with Iran and Cuba, both of which it deems state sponsors of terrorism.

Venezuela originally purchased its fleet of F-16s in 1983. Until Chile acquired a fleet in 2003, Venezuela was the only Latin American country to possess the warplanes made by Lockheed Martin.

Mr. Chàvez has accused the U.S. of breaching its contract to supply parts for the planes and of also pressuring other countries not to help maintain them.

U.S. officials say the agreement under which the planes were sold does not require the U.S. to supply parts indefinitely to Venezuela or to upgrade the planes. U.S. officials say periodic amendments to the F-16 contract have authorized the limited sale of replacement parts to Venezuela in the past.

Copyright © 2006 Associated Press

It's good to see Venezuela not putting up with any shit from the US government. I wish more countries would do the same.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

It's good to see Venezuela not putting up with any shit from the US government. I wish more countries would do the same.

Waz yar opinion about Iran then?

From ChaingMaiNoon's article by John Pilger:

Chávez is, of course, a threat, especially to the United States. Like the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, who based their revolution on the English co-operative moment, and the moderate Allende in Chile, he offers the threat of an alternative way of developing a decent society: in other words, the threat of a good example in a continent where the majority of humanity has long suffered a Washington-designed peonage. In the US media in the 1980s, the "threat" of tiny Nicaragua was seriously debated until it was crushed. Venezuela is clearly being "softened up" for something similar.

Informative excerpt. But you won't find it in the U.S. unfortunately.

Obviously, Nicaragua was never a threat to the U.S. but one journalist for the New York Times went to Nicaragua and planted a false story that was later printed by the NYT and other publications. There were also opposition newspapers that were allowed to print during Ortega's government in Nicaragua.

I do agree, that there is now a propaganda campaign to falsely villify Venezuela.

If U.S. corporations are not catered to, a leader will be labelled as "undemocratic" just like Arbenz in Guatamala and Allende in Chile.

Both were elected by the people in internationally monitered elections.

1. Look what happened to them

2. Look at who did it

3. Look at the current result, today.

There are millions of seppos fool enough to support Chavez' carbon copy of Castro's anti-human tyranny in Cuba - they constitute the American left, and they make up the energetic base of the liberal Democratic Party these days.

^ could you substantiate that a bit ?

Back in the 80s I was sitting in a bar watching the world cup playoffs. I think the netherlands went far that year. There was a latino guy sitting a few stools down so I thought I'd practice my spanish. We started talking and it turned out he was Nicaraguan. I asked what he tought of the Sandinistas. He said in the past the peasants grew there crops and the landlord took his share as rent and the peasants kept the rest to do with as they wished. Under the Sandinistas the government took the entire crop and gave the peasants a chit to take into town and buy what they needed. The value of the peice of paper was discounted by those selling goods in town because nobody knew what it was really worth and no one wanted to get stuck with them.

That's pretty much all I know about the Sandinistas.

One Very Busy Fascist Dictator


Our unfriendly fascist fiend in Venezuela has been one very busy boy lately. I’m reminded more and more every day of Benito Mussolini when I look at this cretin and watch his mad takeover of Venezuela. The peasants down there see improvements mainly due to this dictator grabbing property and socializing everything into what will eventually become a communist dictatorship. History has recorded that the Nazis made the trains run on time too while they were grabbing power. Chavez is no different. First he goes to Cuba and stirs up the rabble with a venomous anti-democracy tirade ...

Chavez Points To Socialism As The Only Way to Stop Barbarism
May 14, 2006

HAVANA (CUBAN NEWS AGENCY-ACN)

Socialism is the only way to thwart barbarism and bring the humankind to a turning point in its fateful history, said Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez in London, Sunday, May 14. Chavez spoke during an encounter with British personalities and groups who support the Venezuelan government. The meeting was held in the Camden Center in North London, reported Prensa Latina news agency.

“Let’s take on socialism; let’s debate it and build it. I believe that its mistakes were in the economic analysis, there should be social praxis, and 21st century socialism should be based on solid human values,” he stressed. “We are facing the threat of global challenges stemming from the genocidal, immoral, sick, and corrupt elite currently governing the United States, which appear to have no limits,” he added.

The Venezuelan president warned about Washington’s threats against Iran and he said that if that aggression materializes, oil prices could reach 100 dollars a barrel. “The outcome of such aggression is unknown, but the Empire is going to find itself inPa worse position than the one they have currently in Iraq, where they do not know what to do with the civil war that has erupted there and can’t find a way out,” he noted.

Chavez called US President George W. Bush a murderer, guilty of genocide, who supposedly fights terrorism, while his country is a sanctuary of terrorists.

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

“Let’s take on socialism; let’s debate it and build it. I believe that its mistakes were in the economic analysis, there should be social praxis, and 21st century socialism should be based on solid human values,” he stressed. “We are facing the threat of global challenges stemming from the genocidal, immoral, sick, and corrupt elite currently governing the United States, which appear to have no limits,” he added.

One can't really comment on that until we know how he's going to implement 21st century socialism. Looking at what he's done so far, he seems to be going in the right direction.

Outcast: This is the Venezuela thread, not the Iran thread, but I wouldn't trust a muslim country with nuclear capabilities as only one (at a push; Turkey) has displayed responsiblity to its citizens or to being part of the world community. The bulk of the people of Iran may well be fine people, but their government isn't, and that is what they are judged upon, just as Americans are judged upon the negative actions of their governments over the years.

Aren't Chinese communist ? why aren't they a threat ?

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Aren't Chinese communist ? why aren't they a threat ?

The governmental structure can be called "communist" but this is in name only.

In 'Nam,

There is a structure of a Politburo, and a Central Committee.

PM and General Secretary.

There is also the concept of "Democratic Centralism," which is slowly eroding.

Governmental structure - does not equal - economy.