The one that still lives.
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The one that still lives.
I said "Y'all" not you specifically, Nidh; just do a search here -- there are so many Bush bashing links you'll have hours of free entertainment checking them, and 9/11 & Katrina will be among the lefty posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by nidhogg
I did? link?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet GorgonBladdy h*ll, Y'all gave Bush a thrashing for not responding quick enough to 9/11 or Katrina, and now McC is too quick on the draw? .Quote:
Originally Posted by nidhogg
As maybe. But Jet, that was my opinion, based upon my observations of the man, and don't you think you should critisize my post based upon what I said, rather than on what other people have said?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon
Let me exclude McCain from my opinion on the use of the term "hero," so I can focus on the usage and mis-use of this term, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by benbaaa
In America now, the word "hero" is over-used, and mis-used all of the time.
What is a "hero?"
I am taking a guess that it's someone who does something that is truly altruistic and brave, risking life and limb to save and/or help other people.
Any American that is wounded or killed in America seems to be labeled a "hero," and there actions of heroism are never specifically detailed.
Because they didn't do anything heroic.
McCain's military decorations include the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.Quote:
Originally Posted by benbaaa
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2008/09/180.jpg
McCain himself has never claimed to be a "war hero". The Republican Party has used the term often.
Generally, "heroism" is related to gallantry in the battle. None of McCain's medals were awarded as a result of gallantry in battle. The Silver Star, the most prestigious of the lot, was awarded as noted in his service record for:
"His captors… subjected him to extreme mental and physical cruelties in an attempt to obtain military information and false confessions for propaganda purposes. Through his resistance to those brutalities, he contributed significantly towards the eventual abandonment…" of such harsh treatment by the North Vietnamese."
In politics the term "hero" seems quite subjective. Whilst the Republican hero rhetoric is a mainstay when they refer to McCain, they accused John Kerry of lying about the circumstances under which his medals where awarded even though all were awarded for actions on the battlefield.
IMO and I believe in McCain's as well, McCain is a highly decorated Naval Officer but not a "war hero". The Republican's will continue to use the term as it does appeal to many voters who won't take the time to look into just what he did to deserve the label. So far the Democrats have not attacked his military record as the Republicans did when Kerry was running and I doubt they will.
Here is a link that gives some more detail on McCain medals:
Navy releases McCain's military record - Boston.com
Norts I am to sure what you consider gallantry in battle (as I would include his time as a POW on par with being in battle) but some of his awards seem to rate - IMHO:
Silver Star:
This one alone rates McCain as a hero in my book - Navy Commendation Medal for refusing to be let go before those who were captured before him:Quote:
McCain was awarded a Silver Star Medal for resisting "extreme mental and physical cruelties" inflicted upon him by his captors from late October to early December 1967, the early months of his captivity, according to the citation.
Quote:
...His captors tortured him and held him in solitary confinement. Still, he declined an offer of early release until those who had been at the prison longer than him were let go.
That decision earned McCain a Navy Commendation Medal. Although McCain was "crippled from serious and ill-treated injuries," he steadfastly refused offers of freedom from those holding him prisoner. "His selfless action served as an example to others and his forthright refusal, by giving emphasis to the insidious nature of such releases, may have prevented a possibly chaotic deterioration in prisoner discipline," the citation says.
He got the Distinguished Flying Cross on the flight which was shot down and captured, because even after his plane was "severly damaged" he continued on his mission to complete the bombing:Quote:
The citations refer to his "accurate ordnance delivery" and his "aggressive and skillful airmanship." He earned his Bronze Star the day before he was shot down, for participating in a mission over an airfield in Phuc Yen, 11 miles north of Hanoi.
Quote:
The citation for his Distinguished Flying Cross sums up McCain's misfortune the following day:
"Although his aircraft was severely damaged, he continued his bomb delivery pass and released his bombs on the target. When the aircraft would not recover from the dive, Commander McCain was forced to eject over the target."
Quote:
Years later, as his Navy career approached its end, McCain received the Legion of Merit Medal. By then, his missions were in the halls of Congress as a liaison to the Senate from the Navy's Office of Legislative Affairs.
He was praised for providing Navy leaders "with sage advice and sound judgment for enacting critical legislation during a period of severe fiscal constraint."
So, Ronald Reagan never shmoozed with Iran just before he came to office and Bush didn't shmooze with the North Koreans?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon
Seems like talking to ones enemies makes sense. The first step to making peace.
As I said, "hero" is a subjective term that's probably why we both use "IMO".Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugs
The DFC is one I would say leans toward the heroic.
Having spent a bit of time in VN during the war, I do know it was common practice particularly for Commissioned Officers to receive medals of "questionable" merit.
Agreed, fortunatelty more American are waking up and seeing this guy for what he really is. He is a hot headed ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by benbaaa
McClatchy Washington Bureau | 09/07/2008 | McCain's history of hot temper raises concerns
"God bless America? What about the rest of the planet?"
Worry about your own elections and political systems and we will worry about our own.
If you bunch of anti-americans actually DID something to change the world instead of whining and crying about how everything bad is America's fault maybe we would live in a better world.
"This thread was never intended to be another Brit v Yank slagfest."
Bullshit, your intention was to "prove" how stupid Americans are. Boring shit, don't you Brits have enough to worry about in your home land without dedicating your lives to hating America?
Are they buddies now, Sir B?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir BurrSo, Ronald Reagan never shmoozed with Iran just before he came to office and Bush didn't shmooze with the North Koreans?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon
Seems like talking to ones enemies makes sense. The first step to making peace.
What does "God bless America" got to do with election and political systems, one wonders?
"What does "God bless America" got to do with election and political systems, one wonders?"
And your point?
Oh I think you do a good enough job of that all on your own, AA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Accidental Ajarn
Asking you what your point (if any) was supposed to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Accidental Ajarn
Hey Ant
Back to your old hate-filled stalking ways I see. How many hours have you devoted this week to spreading your Gospel of hatred?
"Asking you what your point (if any) was supposed to be."
WTF?
You made a comment on the term "God Bless America" on a thread about McCain. What's your point?
Read the post - my point was that as a brit who lived thru her rule (FYI I didn't vote for her), I think I know more about Thatcher than those who merely observed from afar. I never said it was anything to do w/ the US (where did you get that crazy idea from?), just that BoonMee was blowing hot-air about something he knows zilch about. Nothing new there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet GorgonLemmeesee, you lived under her rule. I feel you shudder. And how many terms did Thatcher serve? Y'all voted her party in so who's to blame for that? Oh, the Americans?Quote:
Originally Posted by zedhexPerhaps that we actually lived under her rule and experienced the reality of it, unlike all the fools in the US who swallowed the usual right-wing-biased media line - and now you think you know more about Thatcher than we do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon MeeThe last 'Hero' UK had was Lady Thatcher and 90% of the Libtards aboard here loath her. Heh...what does that say for the 'represenetive sample' eh?:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Texpat
Just keep on ignoring reality BoonMee, you are obviously very good at it.
I lived in London 1991-93. Did you vote in Major then?
Do something like Bin Laden?Quote:
Originally Posted by Accidental Ajarn
No, but the British government talked to the IRA. Now peace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet GorgonAre they buddies now, Sir B?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir BurrSo, Ronald Reagan never shmoozed with Iran just before he came to office and Bush didn't shmooze with the North Koreans?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon
Seems like talking to ones enemies makes sense. The first step to making peace.
The USA talked to Libya. Now peace.
The USA talked to the PLO, supposed on the way to peace.
My point was that the US has shmoozed with their enemies as you seemed to imply that that was a bad thing and no Republican would, which they have.
^ I think it would be more that they cut deals. Of course, I would rather make friends -- less stress. But, if the bad guys are bad, they will just fek you over and laugh at you for being a weakling.
"No, but the British government talked to the IRA. Now peace."
IRA was finished and caved in after years of pressure and had no choice but to try to get what it could.
"The USA talked to Libya. Now peace."
Libya paid a heavy price for its support of terrorism and caved in to years of pressure
"The USA talked to the PLO, supposed on the way to peace."
Would be if the EU didn't continue to support the PLO as apparently most of Europe haven't given up on Hitler's final solution just yet.
^ Actually, I support the Palestinians.
Rubbish, to move forward dialogue was neededQuote:
Originally Posted by Accidental Ajarn