Thread: Zimbabwe elections - Wow !!

Is Mugabe finally gone?? What will happen to him??


AP - Zimbabwe's main opposition leader insists he has won presidential elections outright and is not negotiating to ease out President Robert Mugabe, who has led Zimbabwe from liberation to ruin.
Morgan Tsvangirai said at his first news conference since Saturday's elections that he was waiting on an official announcement of election results before he would enter any discussions with Mugabe.
A businessman close to the state electoral commission and a lawyer close to the opposition said earlier that the two men's aides were negotiating a graceful exit for the country's leader of 28 years.
Several diplomats said they had heard similar reports of secret negotiations but could not confirm talks were under way.

"There are no discussions," Tsvangirai said.
"Let's wait for ZEC (Zimbabwe Electoral Commission) to complete its work, then we can discuss the circumstances that will affect the people."
Deputy Information Minister Bright Matonga also denied it, telling the BBC: "There are no negotiations whatsoever, because we are waiting for the presidential results, so why do we need to hold any secret talks?"
Tensions rose as people stayed away from work to await results.
A senior police officer, Wayne Bvudzijena, went on state radio to say: "Our forces are more than ready to deal with perpetrators of violence."
Paramilitary police have stepped up patrols in Harare and Bulawayo, the second city, and several roadblocks have been set up at strategic entries to the capital. The opposition has most of its support in urban centres.
Tsvangirai claimed to have won more than the 50 per cent plus one vote needed for victory.
The businessman said Mugabe has been told he is far behind Tsvangirai in preliminary results and that he might have to face a runoff.
He said the prospect was too humiliating for Mugabe, and that was why the president was considering ceding power.
The Zimbabwe Election Support Network, a coalition of 38 Zimbabwe civil society organisations, said its random representative sample of polling stations showed Tsvangirai won just over 49 per cent of the vote and Mugabe 42 per cent. Simba Makoni, a former Mugabe loyalist, trailed at about 8 per cent.
For the first time in this election, results were posted on the doors of the 9,000 polling stations in the country. This initiative, part of an agreement between the parties negotiated by South African President Thabo Mbeki, could make it more difficult to cheat, and allowed independent groups to compile their own tallies.
At the news conference, Tsvangirai spoke as if he already had been declared president:
"For years we have trod a journey of hunger, pain, torture and brutality," he said.
"Today we face a new challenge of governing and rehabilitating our beloved country, the challenge of giving birth to a new Zimbabwe founded on restoration not retribution, on love not war."
Martin Rupiya, a military analyst at South Africa's Institute for Strategic Studies and a former lieutenant-colonel in the Zimbabwe army, said he had heard of the military's involvement in negotiations for Mugabe to step down.
The election result "has compelled the military, the hawkish wing and the other moderate, to begin to reconsider accommodating the opposition," he said. "Because of the nature of the wins they have been forced to reassess."
Political analyst John Makumbe said he had learned from military sources that they would respect the results of the elections. The day before the elections, security chiefs had said they would not serve anybody but Mugabe and would not tolerate an opposition victory.
In Washington, the White House indicated it believed the opposition had won.
"It's clear the people of Zimbabwe have voted for change," said Gordon Johndroe, spokesman for the National Security Council.
"It's time for the Zimbabwean Electoral Commission to confirm the results we have all seen from the local polling stations and respected NGOs."
The European Union said it wants Mugabe to step down to spare his nation political turmoil.
"If Mr Mugabe continues, there will be a coup d'etat," said Slovenian Foreign Minister Dimitri Rupel, whose country holds the EU presidency. He said he hoped Mugabe "is on his way out."
British Prime Minister Gordon Brown called for the immediate release of election results.
UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon "calls for continued calm and he urges the utmost transparency be exercised so that the people of Zimbabwe can have full confidence in the process," UN associate spokesman Farhan Haq said at UN headquarters in New York.
The Electoral Commission has released results for 182 of the 210 parliamentary seats - giving Tsvangirai's Movement for Democratic Change 92 seats, including five for a breakaway faction, to 90 for Mugabe's ruling party.
At least six Cabinet ministers have lost their seats, according to the official results.
The commission has offered no results in the presidential race.
Zimbabweans still fear that Mugabe may declare himself winner, as he has in previous elections that observers said were marked by rigging, violence and intimidation.


©AAP 2008

according to a news-flash I have just received, Mugabe has gone!

Morgan Tsvangirai has won 50.3% of the vote

About fucking time too, but what makes us so sure the new chap will be any better?

well he couldn't be any worse.

The first thing that needs doing is to get as many white farmers as possible back on their farms and growing food, but I can't see that happening.

Yeah..Many of them have found a welcoming home in Nigeria with 25 year land leases and bank loans etc..They ain't too interested in coming back, at least none of the ones they interviewed were showing any interest.. They'd have to make one sweet deal with some very secure land compensation and guarantees..

The thing that flames me about that too is that people who live in shacks and huts went into these nice, white owned farm houses and destroyed them after they evicted the farmers when the least they could have done was actually take them over and live in them.. It's senseless!! I wanted to use stronger language here but I'll refrain..

^
Just goes to show the mentality of a large portion of the nation. Mr M inherited a nice secure and vibrant economy when he took over from whitey.

In these days of rocketing food prices for staples, and possible looming food shortages, it is whimsical to recall the nickname given to Zimbabwe/Rhodesia in old Whitey days-

"The Garden of Africa".

Originally Posted by sabang

In these days of rocketing food prices for staples, and possible looming food shortages, it is whimsical to recall the nickname given to Zimbabwe/Rhodesia in old Whitey days-

"The Garden of Africa".

I could be wrong, but wasn't it called the "bread basket" of Africa?

Originally Posted by Driventowin

The thing that flames me about that too is that people who live in shacks and huts went into these nice, white owned farm houses and destroyed them after they evicted the farmers when the least they could have done was actually take them over and live in them.. It's senseless!! I wanted to use stronger language here but I'll refrain..

they acted like a bunch of savages, that's because that's what they are, and indirectly the "whiteys" are also responsible for that, by keeping a low undereducated labor on the payroll.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by Driventowin

The thing that flames me about that too is that people who live in shacks and huts went into these nice, white owned farm houses and destroyed them after they evicted the farmers when the least they could have done was actually take them over and live in them.. It's senseless!! I wanted to use stronger language here but I'll refrain..

they acted like a bunch of savages, that's because that's what they are, and indirectly the "whiteys" are also responsible for that, by keeping a low undereducated labor on the payroll.

Universities were in place before Mugabe came to power. He promptly closed them all for having the balls to speak up against him.

Unlike other nations in Africa however, Zim is slightly different. The Brits wanted to give Zim independence, it was Ian Smith who objected and went for UDI. Something else Mugabe tends forget about his nation's history.

Finally, if anyone is of the opinion that Mugabe wanted to empower black Africa is talking to Noddy and Big Ears

^ Despite providing universities, infrastructure and law & order. Of which none has progressed in the intervening years, only declined.

The local workforce was a thousand times better off working for the white farmers than now.

Yea but the whites werre cnuts.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

The local workforce was a thousand times better off working for the white farmers than now.

yes better off because the white wanted to keep it that way, the infrastructure were more for them than the locals, hardly a case of "improving" the life of the locals, just another case of abuses of local resources, by giving a little and maximizing your takings

Originally Posted by Butterfly

the infrastructure were more for them than the locals,

So who were the universities for?

Everything was put in place for the Africans to pull themselves into the modern age, but not enough of them did it. Even in countries where it did seem to be successful, like Kenya, the government couldn't sustain momentum and as we can clearly see now, the country is failing.

This image of whites using the blacks as slaves on the farms is complete bullshit. The locals who worked there were well looked after (generally) and many worked up to positions of great responsibility. It didn't take them long to throw it all away after getting caught up in the mob-fever from Mugabe though.

I suggest you do a bit of research before you type any more shit on the subject, or is it jealousy because the Frogs didn't do anywhere near as much for Africa as Britain did?

Unlike Sth Africa, Rhodesia did not have apartheid, and racially mixed marriages were never prohibited by law.

It did have a major financial, educational and social divide between the locals and the settlers.

The Civil War was seen by the settlers as a fight against Communism- many of the insurgents were from Mozambique and other surrounding gountries.

You would have to be a brave man to argue that independence has improved the lot of the average Zim. I put this down to an inept and corrupt government, rather than Independence itself.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

So who were the universities for?

their kids, surely you can't be that blind

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

I suggest you do a bit of research before you type any more shit on the subject, or is it jealousy because the Frogs didn't do anywhere near as much for Africa as Britain did?

did you ? the good "whitey" myth is nothing more than a fraud, they were there for a reason, and that wasn't to help the locals,

of course, not to say that the locals in power were any better,

The Unis were founded predominantly for the locals, as the main ethos of the Empire was to empower local peoples through knowledge and then return the governance to them to ensure a strong Commonwealth.

Sadly, greed took over instead and despite most African heads of state being very well educated then still generally turned out to be greedy, selfish dictators with a penchant for genocide.

In a large percentag eof the cases, the black farm workers were also driven away, assaulted, sometimes killed, etc. M has a lot to answer for, but I doubt he'll ever be brought to book.

I have posted on TD before about how I was in Salisbury on the day of Independence.

Even though there were a few tanks on the street corners, there was also real genuine hope in the air. Looking back now 28 years later, I can only think of how we were all made to look like fools. Fuck, Mugabe didn't even play a really major role in the "struggle" - not that he would ever let you know otherwise.

A typical communist who wrote history as he wanted it to be seen - rather than what it was. Then again, a few Brits have done that in their time too

only place in the world today where a millionaire can starve to death, or at least go to bed hungry.

Yeah they probably have more millionaires per capita than anywhere else right now.....None of them could afford to buy a cup of java at Starbucks mind you, but they're still millionaires none the less!!