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^ It's a question of degree really. Opinions can not always be backed up by a link or stat's, and we certainly don't ban them.
However, when a source is quoted or a Stat provided it should be accompanied by a Link. For an analysis of Obama's supposed "Liberalness", see my Post #86 above- with Links provided. ;)
Anyway, I think it's common knowledge now that when a staunch right Republican says 'Liberal' the rest of us understand 'Moderate'.
That's fair enough. The only problem as I see it is that people can be disengenuous. It detracts from the topic/debate being told to 'Google something' every other post and leads to circular wild-goose chases.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
Which is probably the entire point I suppose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stroller
Fok you sTroller, clearly being offensive seems to offend your sensibilities unless it's directed at those disagreeing with you who must be idiots or worse, but...
In Indonesia, I’d spent 2 years at a Muslim school...Dreams Of My Father (p.142) by OBAMA BARAK
In Indonesia he was living with his Muslim father who gave him his middle name, Hussein, where he spent time at a madrassa, but according to you he never was a Muslim...I can understand the midget arguing that black is white, but 'Obama never was a Muslim' would be difficult even for him to distort, much less you.
And with the usual exceptions, exceptions meaning exceptions rather than the norm, being a Muslim is for life, not expedience.
keda just keeps on excavating that hole doesn't he. :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by keda
I guess the 2yrs I spent at a Catholic school make me a Catholic too.
No you can't understand anything, even simple concepts. I said that Obama isn't a Muslim. You are now telling further lies to hide the fact of your first lie Walter. Pathetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by keda
Seperating Truth from Fiction:-
"Obama's middle name is Hussein (named after his father, Barack Hussein Obama, Sr.), his heritage does include Islam, and his grandfather was Muslim. But there does not seem to be a time when either he or his parents were practicing Muslims and Obama regards himself as a Christian. He is a member of Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ where one Sunday morning in 1988 he said walked down the aisle during an alter call by the pastor, Jeremiah Wright."
Some of the most definitive information about Obama's faith comes from an interview he did with journalist Cathleen Falsini. She writes that Obama was born in 1961 in Hawaii to a white mother who came from Protestant Midwestern stock but whom Obama describes in his own book as a Christian but "a lonely witness for secular humanism." Obama's father was a black African from the Luo tribe of Kenya. Obama called him agnostic. Obama's grandfather on his father's side was Muslim. When he was six years old, Obama's mother and father divorced and she married an Indonesian man who was a non-practicing Moslem. They moved to Indonesia where Obama said he attended a Roman Catholic school until he was 10. An article Scott Turow on Salon.com in 2004, however, said that while in Indonesia, Obama spent 2 years in a Moslem school then 2 more in the Catholic school.
In the same interview Obama said, "There is one thing that I want to mention that I think is important. Part of what we've been seeing during the course this campaign is some scurrilous e-mails that have been sent out, denying my faith, talking about me being a Muslim, suggesting that I got sworn in the U.S. Senate with a Quran in my hand or that I don't pledge allegiance to the flag. I think it's really important for your readers to know that I have been a member of the same church for almost 20 years, and I have never practiced Islam. I am respectful of the religion, but it's not my own."
Obama, who is currently U.S. Senator from Illinois, also served 8 years in the Illinois State Senate, graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law School, and was the first African-American president of the Harvard Law Review
Questions about Senator Barack Obama
Living four years in Indonesia does not make you a Moslem. Just ask several of our members here.
I have a feeling that if they try to play this fallacy in the US election, it will backfire in a big way- outside of the usual rabid bloggers, who are electorally insignificant.
^ It has already been picked up and adopted as 'fact' (Obama being a Muslim) by some on here.
Apparently if you repeat something enough and enough people pick up on it and parrot it that's enough for some.
IMO keda knows it isn't true, but he's spreading the lie.Quote:
Originally Posted by AntRobertson
^ He's displaying some questionable character traits in doing so then. Not only that but by being repeatedly and increasingly disengenuous in ducking it.
One of Hitler's best known methods of persuasion.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by AntRobertson
Ray I am not sure of the relevance but I like your new avatar. :gwbush:Quote:
Originally Posted by raycarey
I aim to please with my choice in avatars.
Good point! Or conversely when a "left wing" liberal labels a Republican as a "right wing conservative" others may think "moderate". As long as the extremes on either side are unwilling to concede that maybe the other side has a good point and move at least a little toward the middle (moderate) position the government will remain completely dysfunctional.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
This could also be practiced here in TD as well.;)
Yes you are, teach...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by raycarey
what's your point?
do you have anything to say that is even remotely related to the thread topic or the issue of accountability that was raised?
and btw, this side issue of requiring accountability was prompted by these nonsensical posts of yours...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
which were then completely and utterly debunked by sabang in post #86.
heh. :rolleyes:
let's hope that's been settled.
back on topic...
here's one of obama's priorities....beginning to end the fiasco in iraq.
Obama extends win streak to 10 - Decision '08 - MSNBC.comQuote:
“I opposed this war in 2002. I will bring this war to an end in 2009. It is time to bring our troops home,” he declared.
and what was it mccain said about troops in iraq for 100 years?
Not so fast there slick.Quote:
Originally Posted by raycarey
Main salient point is Obama is going to prove to be too liberal come the general election. Cooler minds will prevail and see this 'emperor' w/no clothes...heh:rolleyes:
jesus.
what's been settled is that your absurd claim of 'the most liberal senator' was totally debunked...and hopefully you've learned a lesson about accountability.
At least ray seems to be getting out of his cage...
^ Anything else you'd like to add keda? Admit you were wrong perhaps?:rolleyes:
On any given day, Obama can be ranked most liberal...& he's going to prove that he's too far to left for the general population.Quote:
Originally Posted by raycarey
Wanna start a book?:rolleyes:
looks like i'm off ignore....again.Quote:
Originally Posted by keda
but it was just for this post, right?
and keda please tell us again how obama is/was a muslim....i find it amusing.
"Fok you sTroller" certainly is being offensive and I do take exception to it - but thanks for revealing the depth of your 'arguments'.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by keda
No, not according to myself, I wouldn't know - I quoted someone else. But I do know that he is not a Muslim now - it's not that hard to find out, keda.Quote:
Originally Posted by keda
And? Does this mean Obama is a Muslim? Why don't you admit you were wrong and move on, without further personal insults?Quote:
Originally Posted by keda
He is only gradually more 'liberal' than most other Dem former potential candidates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
Plenty of charts and quizzes out there to look at and compare.
All the candidates have public voting records. As we all agree the degree of liberalism or conservatism is in the eye of the beholder. Suggest all take a hard look at the candidates voting records and then decide. Suppose it is too big an ask for many as it takes some time to read through all the bills but the only way I know of making an informed decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by stroller
Here's the link. No spins, no opinion, no agendas expressed. Just the voting record. Wow, if you really look at the voting record maybe as an individual one can decide on whether to support one candidate or the other. On the other hand, save lots of time and read the numerous media sources, blogs and the like who would be happy to tell us how to vote!
Project Vote Smart - 2008 Presidential Candidates
Select the candidate, then on the right of the page select "voting record"
Obama can be summed up in just three words:
Eloquent but empty...