A note of caution for those with deposits in US Banks

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Originally Posted by Butterfly

to think that the subprime mess will have NO real impact on the economy is a bit naive to say the least,

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I never suggested that.

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The subprime mess is real, and its impact is real, ask the thousands of family who lost their home, the sales agent who lost their business etc... the impact is not negligible

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The impact to sectors other than housing and finance/banking to date has not had great impact. It may come around, but has not visited yet. There's a snowball effect that will encompass other areas, but it remains to be seen how drastically.

I realize you're anxious for any opportunity to witness America crumble, but please be patient. Your alarmist cries are a bit premature. ;)

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Originally Posted by Texpat

I realize you're anxious for any opportunity to witness America crumble

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Wrong, my job is easier with a balanced market, I have no wish to see things go down, all this is costing us all money, one way or another.

Yes, understand that Spin, above post ^^ was addressing BF's borderline hysteria, not your reasoned, level assessment.

Low interest means low exchange value for the $.
Good for exports and employment. Bad for imports, especially oil. That means the price of everything goes up. Inflation. Bottom line is the average Yank is going to have to take a cut in spending power both domestically and overseas.

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Originally Posted by Texpat

I never suggested that.

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You did, saying the impact was "negligible", which is a proxy for "no or little impact", backtracking already I see

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Originally Posted by Texpat

The impact to sectors other than housing and finance/banking to date has not had great impact. It may come around, but has not visited yet. There's a snowball effect that will encompass other areas, but it remains to be seen how drastically.

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You are completely misinformed, again, you need to learn about banking and finance. Those industries are the blood of our society, when they fail or even chock, everyone IS impacted. Multiplier effect, ever heard of it ? it works both way and guess what, we are facing a liquidity crush, everybody is facing the same facts, and it will have a dramatic impact on the whole game. You haven't see the effects yet.

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Originally Posted by Texpat

I realize you're anxious for any opportunity to witness America crumble, but please be patient. Your alarmist cries are a bit premature.

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As much as I believe that America is a fucked up society, a belligerent enemy NK style, it's still the best place for business which is probably why it's so fucked up socially.

^ Oh, so do pray tell, is the UK or France or (list another western or estern country) not f*ked up, especially socially? :bunny3:

Countrywide Financial Chief Executive Angelo Mozilo told CNBC's Maria Bartiromo that there's been an "overreaction" to the subprime lending shakeout, though he believes the problem may get worse before it gets better.

"The severity of the impact can be materially helped by a very rational regulatory and legislative environment," Mozilo said. "There's been a rush to judgment and an overreaction. If everyone steps back and looks at the issue in a calm rational manner, this crisis, which appears to be a crisis, will pass rather quickly."

Mozilo said he's mostly concerned for first-time homebuyers: "The only way that lower income and minorities can get into middle income is through buying a home," he said. "And there is a real rush to judgment in cutting off the programs that many of these people have historically used for many years to get into their first home."

He said that much of the problem is tied not to this group, but to investors and speculators who used more exotic mortgages to buy investment properties. "They are not new products or exotic products, but some of them have been sold to people they shouldn't have been sold to."

"Clearly an Overreaction"
Now, he explains, there are first-time home buyers who need to refinance because their interest rates are resetting to higher levels. "They can't get refinancing because the rules changed on them after the game started," he said. "This is clearly an overreaction."

Mozilo also said the fallout from subprime lending -- the business of making loans to people with poor or spotty credit histories -- will largely be shouldered by the "monoline" lenders such as New Century, Novastar, and Accredited Home Loans and less so at more diversified lenders.

"It’s a mistake to apply what's happening to them to the more diversified financial services companies like Countrywide, Wells Fargo and others," he told CNBC. In fact, "this will be great for Countrywide because at the end of the day, all of the irrational competitors will be gone."

Countrywide Job Cuts, Earnings - News - MSNBC.com

Start preparing NOW for Y3K!
It'll be the end of us all!

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Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

^ Oh, so do pray tell, is the UK or France or (list another western or estern country) not f*ked up, especially socially? :bunny3:

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Just about every other developed western country you can think of has a more liberal and better developed social infrastructure to take care of its citizens. Yea, it means higher taxes, and yea, it means there will be those who abuse the benefits. But what it comes down to is quality of life for the average citizen.

USA is the epitome of right wing social doctrine. Low taxes and low social benefits, benefit only the rich. But I acknowledge this policy does make the country more lean and mean in respect to giving it a competitive advantage on the world trade market. Compared to other western countries the average US working class man hasn't got much more to give. The richest country in the world has got 12% of its population living below the poverty line according to Wikipedia 2004 stats.

You can draw other comparisons regarding the integration problems of ethnic minorities into the mainstream in European countries if you like, but they are a mere distraction away from the quality of life for the average citizen.

Quality of life for the average Joe Citizen isn't measured by a countries overall economic wealth or military power you know? If that's the way most Americans like it, they are welcome to keep it. Not my problem. Though I do feel for all those people who are doing it hard in USA. If only they knew there is a world and a way of life outside America. Sad really. Used like drones and fed propaganda to believe they live in the most fortunate place on earth.

Yeah, those low social benefits are just killin' me. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Texpat

Countrywide Financial Chief Executive Angelo Mozilo told CNBC's Maria Bartiromo that there's been an "overreaction" to the subprime lending shakeout

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Well, as his company was one of the main architechts of the subprime fiasco, he would say that, wouldn't he...

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Originally Posted by Texpat

Countrywide Financial Chief Executive Angelo Mozilo told CNBC's Maria Bartiromo that there's been an "overreaction" to the subprime lending shakeout, though he believes the problem may get worse before it gets better.

"The severity of the impact can be materially helped by a very rational regulatory and legislative environment," Mozilo said. "There's been a rush to judgment and an overreaction. If everyone steps back and looks at the issue in a calm rational manner, this crisis, which appears to be a crisis, will pass rather quickly."

Mozilo said he's mostly concerned for first-time homebuyers: "The only way that lower income and minorities can get into middle income is through buying a home," he said. "And there is a real rush to judgment in cutting off the programs that many of these people have historically used for many years to get into their first home."

He said that much of the problem is tied not to this group, but to investors and speculators who used more exotic mortgages to buy investment properties. "They are not new products or exotic products, but some of them have been sold to people they shouldn't have been sold to."

"Clearly an Overreaction"
Now, he explains, there are first-time home buyers who need to refinance because their interest rates are resetting to higher levels. "They can't get refinancing because the rules changed on them after the game started," he said. "This is clearly an overreaction."

Mozilo also said the fallout from subprime lending -- the business of making loans to people with poor or spotty credit histories -- will largely be shouldered by the "monoline" lenders such as New Century, Novastar, and Accredited Home Loans and less so at more diversified lenders.

"It’s a mistake to apply what's happening to them to the more diversified financial services companies like Countrywide, Wells Fargo and others," he told CNBC. In fact, "this will be great for Countrywide because at the end of the day, all of the irrational competitors will be gone."

Countrywide Job Cuts, Earnings - News - MSNBC.com

Start preparing NOW for Y3K!
It'll be the end of us all!

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All is well. Its just an overreaction?

This little hiccough in the US financial markets is a bit more than the usual ups and downs on the global finance and stock markets we have seen over the past few decades. Its a wake-up call to the rest of the world that the everlasting strength of the $US is not so unshakable after all. Every currency in the world is gaining against the $US. Doesn't that tell you something like the world is starting to lose faith in the strength of the $US? And for good reason too. Its just paper money that cant be backed up with actual goods and services to export to earn foreign currency exchange. Hell, why does the USA need foreign exchange currency anyway when they can just keep printing $ bills to pay off their world debt that is denominated in $USs as its the worlds default trading currency at the moment. USA cant pay their international debt off in goods and services at the current exchange rate, so if the rest of the world is silly enough to take pallet loads of US paper money in exchange for real goods (and loans) shipped into the USA, --- more fool them!

Gold went out on the early 70's as the worlds universal denominator of a countries currency value.Mainly because the USA was virtually bankrupt under the gold standard. Then the $US took over as the world standard of currency valuation and has remained so to this day. It was a con then back in the 70's and it is a much, much, bigger con now. But the the rest of the world has been reluctant to let go of the $US hegemony because they have so much invested in it. In effect, the USA has been enjoying the fruits of labor and production all around the world, not through increased production in USA (which has been declining), but through the hegemony of the $US.

Saddam Hussein refused to trade his countries oil in $USs and chose $Euro instead. And look what happened to him. Iran has been moving along the same lines and so is now a prime US target for regime change. The big money people in the USA are really clutching at anything to hang on to the golden goose that has brought them so much wealth in past decades. Even if it means the average working class Joe has to pay for it through a lower standard of living, if not higher taxes.

But the rest of the worlds countries are not so dumb as the American public, and there will be a gradual shift away from investment in the declining $US. The big holders of US debt in $USs like China and Japan wont want to spook the market by unloading too much too soon, But they will slowly divest themselves of this declining asset.

Its not all bad news for average Americans tough. A lot of jobs that were going overseas will become viable again with a lower valued $US. The big companies might not like it so much, but at least its going to mean that some more families have a breadwinner to put food on the table and pay the rent.

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Originally Posted by Texpat

Countrywide Financial Chief Executive Angelo Mozilo told CNBC........

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why in god's name would anyone listen to anything that huckster mozilo had to say?

much less quote him. :rolleyes:

the only question regarding mozilo is how long he's going to be in jail.

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Originally Posted by Texpat

Yeah, those low social benefits are just killin' me. :rolleyes:

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And fuck the rest huh?
People who went bright enough or who didn't have the chance to get an education, and worked in low paid jobs all their life just to pay rent and provide for their families. No medical insurance and no retirement benefits for those poor buggers.

I guess you feel pretty smug that you were born in the right place at the right time and got the opportunity to do well.

I am sure those social benefits are --"just killin me" --,as you say tongue and cheek. But did you ever think that your prosperity might be at the expense of someone in a lower socio economic class who has worked just as hard as you?

Like I said in another post. That's the way Americans see it. I reckon the rest of the world sees it differently. If you guys want to shit in your nest then sit in, then that's up to you. You can deal with the social problems you create.

BTW, why arnt you back in the land of the free if its so good?

You are an angry little Panda, aren't you? :)

See, where I come from ... you go to school, discipline yourself, work hard, follow the rules, save your clams and then retire when you're comfortable.

Don't be angry that I retired at 42. Don't be angst-riddled that my tax rate is relatively low. Don't have a tantrum because you were born into a system that paralyzes the common worker with outrageous taxes to pay for intricate social networks that seemingly have little value to most.

Just deal with it. :)

Meanwhile, let's watch this sub-prime fallout. See how far it really goes. I'm interested.

Think I'll take some of my social benefits and go buy a few cold beers for lunch. Ahhh, life is good!

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Originally Posted by Panda

BTW, why arnt you back in the land of the free if its so good?

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well?

^You haven't been listening have you?

Welcome to RC's little Catch 22.
You elicit a response and when I answer, you twist the tale and berate me for talking about myself. You're so predictable Ray -- this needn't be a slagfest. I'm sure Panda's question was rhetorical.
Tell ya what Ray, you tell BobbyTits where you live (which country) and I'll tell you why I live in Thailand. (If you'd been paying attention you would have already made the entry in your notebook. :)

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Originally Posted by Texpat

I'm sure Panda's question was rhetorical.

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i'm not.

Panda?

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Originally Posted by Texpat

You are an angry little Panda, aren't you? :)

See, where I come from ... you go to school, discipline yourself, work hard, follow the rules, save your clams and then retire when you're comfortable.

Don't be angry that I retired at 42. Don't be angst-riddled that my tax rate is relatively low. Don't have a tantrum because you were born into a system that paralyzes the common worker with outrageous taxes to pay for intricate social networks that seemingly have little value to most.

Just deal with it. :)

Meanwhile, let's watch this sub-prime fallout. See how far it really goes. I'm interested.

Think I'll take some of my social benefits and go buy a few cold beers for lunch. Ahhh, life is good!

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While you enjoy those cold beers you earned through paying low taxes, think about some of the people you grew up with who wernt so lucky to get some of the breaks in life you did. Think about those people who cant pay for the medical care they need to make life bearable, or the medications they need to stay healthy.

So you had a good run and managed to retire in comfort at 42. Good luck to you.
You think its all attributable to your own hard work rather than a degree of luck in life? Plenty of poor people work very hard too, and for a lot more years than you did. They may not have had the breaks in life you did but they at least deserve proper health care and to live with dignity in their old age.

I find it sad and callous that you could turn your back on your own countrymen and gloat over how good you have it through such an inequitable system.

But for a trick of nature you could have ended up as one of the poor needing a helping hand up by the social welfare system. I am sure you would have been bleating loud and long if the shoe was on the other foot.

So enjoy your early retirement and comfortable lifestyle, but never forget its being financed by the hard work of many people less fortunate than yourself.

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Originally Posted by raycarey

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Originally Posted by Texpat

I'm sure Panda's question was rhetorical.

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i'm not.

Panda?

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It was a straight up question that I don't expect to get an answer to.
Texpat is so immersed in the divisive culture of haves and have nots I doubt he could even start to have some compassion for his fellow countrymen.

I guess that's why Americans are so afraid of eachother. When I was over there I found it bizarre that you cant go out on the streets outside the central business district (CBD). And that was daytime. Cross the road from the CBD into the "neighbourhoods" and you life could well be in danger. At night time the safe area becomes even smaller with parts of the CBD no go zones. What a hell of a way to run a society. I felt like I was in a war zone, but the Yanks just accepted it as normal.

I got to ask the question here what you think is "normal"?
Its not a country I am in any hurry to visit again. But I did have a good time down in New Orleans before the floods.

Texpat is the typical American fraud, who attribute his success to hard work and a system of injustice and dreams, when at the end all he has is luck and a survival instinct (which would explain why he would "QUIT" Iraq),

I have seem too many of his types to comment further without being nasty,

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Originally Posted by Countrywide Financial Chief Executive Angelo Mozilo

If everyone steps back and looks at the issue in a calm rational manner, this crisis, which appears to be a crisis, will pass rather quickly."

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Theres reportedly a trillion dollars of mortgage loans out there that stand a good chance of defaulting, this guy knew the risks of making loans that were based on market appreciation rather than peoples ability to pay.
I watched this guy, with his swanky suit and golden suntan appear in front of congress recently, he was questioned about why he cashed in tens of millions of dollars of Countrywide stock options just before all this blew up. His answers were cute but not very convincing.

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Yes, as they say.-- "TO THE VICTOR, -- THE SPOILS".

Unfortunately, in a country as far to the right of the capitalist system as USA is, that means a huge gap in wealth between the haves and have nots. Probably explains a lot about their massive problem with crime too. A recipe for economic success and social misery.

It actually hurts me to see people like Texpat gloating over his success in such an unjust system. But I guess that was his intent, and after all its their country.
They did vote Bush in TWICE, so I suppose we shouldn't feel too much compassion for them.

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Originally Posted by Spin

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Originally Posted by Countrywide Financial Chief Executive Angelo Mozilo

If everyone steps back and looks at the issue in a calm rational manner, this crisis, which appears to be a crisis, will pass rather quickly."

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Theres reportedly a trillion dollars of mortgage loans out there that stand a good chance of defaulting, this guy knew the risks of making loans that were based on market appreciation rather than peoples ability to pay.
I watched this guy, with his swanky suit and golden suntan appear in front of congress recently, he was questioned about why he cashed in tens of millions of dollars of Countrywide stock options just before all this blew up. His answers were cute but not very convincing.

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But he didn't break any laws. So the swindle is perfectly legal. Its the American way!

^ So sad to see people who are morally bankrupt get ahead at the expense of the average working man who has to pick up the tab.

It seems the wealthy in the USA are doing to their own people the same as they are doing to other countries.

It really makes me mad when these PARASITES quote technical points of law to justify acts they must know are immoral and unethical. Once again, its the American way, I am afraid. Sad, just plain sad that technical points of law have over ridden a moral code of conduct in the most powerful nation on earth. We will all be the losers at the hands of these lawyers who legitimize these immoral and unethical acts. Technically legal or not.

People are not stupid. They know when they are being had.
Bottom line is that the American people are being told they will take a 10 to 25% cut in purchasing power to finance the excesses of these mega wealthy crooks.

Ultra bottom line is that the $US decline will ultimately drag us all down as the world economy slows, but those pieces of parasitic slime will still be drinking Champagne on their $100 million yachts which are now worth only $80 million.

So big deal. Who gets hurt? Only the common working class man who is struggling to pay his mortgage. Families out on the street and bankrupt while these parasites enjoy the good life. Yea, I know. Its the American way.

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Originally Posted by Panda

But he didn't break any laws.

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we shall see.