Thread: Is this fair?

Like you say the problem is with those women who went through puberty as a male. It creates too much of an unfair advantage.

Its creating a rift in some LGBTQ+ communities and I can only assume to do so.

But a bloke that isn't allowed to compete as a female might get their feelings hurt.

Originally Posted by david44

CAn some of our bright young members explain if it is me out of sync or is has the trans debate spun out of order focusing on self identication?

Don't think we have bright young members so how about a not so bright old gits opinion?

How someones brain decides what gender they are doesn't change what they are from the neck down. Athletes should only compete on what they were from the neck down.

In this case it is not a big issue. Glenique Frank was allowed to compete as a woman because of UK Athletics transitional arrangements. This is a temporary measure. She was not allowed to win any prizes or set any records whatever time or position she achieved. She finished the course in 4 hours and 11 minutes with 10,000 women in front of her and 14,000 behind her. The women from 10,001 to 24,000 should subtract 1 when they tell their friends what position they came in.

@bsnub, what do you think about the topic of this thread?

Originally Posted by david44

Am I out of touch too old to think this is madness?

No. But it is a minefield. Go read up on JK Rowling who is called a "transphobe" and TERF for daring to suggest that, if i remember there was a difference between women who menstruate and other types of "women", and that not all womens areas should be open to transexuals. She is being vilified (she also tells them to fuck off).

In many places you could simply put on a frock and declare yourself a woman, and demand access to womens areas. Madness.

A few places in sports seem to be waking up to the fact that female athletes need a fair playing field, and they may settle out over the issue of puberty (gone through or not) - but personally I hope they go further than that - two classes - female and open - that covers everybody and protects biological women.

The problem is, it is all bollocks. All the surgery and drugs do NOT turn a man into a biological woman (and vice versa), but we have come up with the ridiculous notion that calling something female MAKES it female with all the attendant rights and liberties. New wave progressive crap bullshit. A thing is what it is - NOT what you call it.

The very few quiet conversations I have had on this have all been in complete concordance. It is not what they want - but they have seen what happens to those who put their head above the parapet.

it's a fucking freak and it's taking advantage of the confusion that surrounds the gender debate in athletics at the moment.
i’m sick to death of the uk's capitulation to the whims of narcissistic, chauvinist, ugly, freaks. this cheat ran the tokyo marathon last month as a bloke, yet it knew it'd be lauded for it's brave stunt in london, the capital of leftist woke brainwashing shite.

14,000 women were cheated by this sicko in the marathon, woman have the piss taken daily by the aggressive and violent trans lobby.

how typical of the bbc to pick this out this freak from 2500 competitors and give it airtime to promote it's psychological shortcomings and freakish appearance.

enough is enough!

Originally Posted by nidhogg

A few places in sports seem to be waking up to the fact that female athletes need a fair playing field, and they may settle out over the issue of puberty (gone through or not) - but personally I hope they go further than that - two classes - female and open - that covers everybody and protects biological women.

World Athletics (WA), the governing body for track and field and other running competitions, announced last month that transgender women who went through male puberty can no longer compete in women’s events at international competitions. The policy took effect on 31 March.

UK Athletics are transitioning to that.

Originally Posted by Stretchy

In this case it is not a big issue. Glenique Frank was allowed to compete as a woman because of UK Athletics transitional arrangements. This is a temporary measure. She was not allowed to win any prizes or set any records whatever time or position she achieved. She finished the course in 4 hours and 11 minutes with 10,000 women in front of her and 14,000 behind her. The women from 10,001 to 24,000 should subtract 1 when they tell their friends what position they came in.

This puts it into perspective a bit more

Originally Posted by Stretchy

when they tell their friends what position they came in.

If they could tell us too, it would be great.


For educational purposes.

Originally Posted by panama hat

This puts it into perspective a bit more

Indeed.

An absence of shrieky tories always helps.

Originally Posted by cyrille

An absence of shrieky tories always helps.

As long as people like Taxidriver can get a bit of high blood pressure from it . . who are we to argue

Originally Posted by taxexile

and it's taking advantage

of desiccated armchair fossils who are outraged the the world is changing without their permission

the rest of us really do not give a sh1t

i dont care if somebody wants to run a marathon in a dress

should just have an "others"/ cos-playing as (dressing up as it used to be called) category

Whoever thought that transgenders competing in sports was a good idea, needs their head read.

Don't look at me, I still think it's a fucking joke the women get paid the same as men at Wimbledon.

I just had this similar conversation with a hike-mate this weekend. (went hiking in Batangas province)

But anyway, my hike-mate was 65 years old - we called him Sir Ton or Kuya (brother) Ton, out of respect. Sir Ton and another hike-mate were discussing a sporting event, which is a group/ relay type. The members of the team do all the evebts (different events like an obstacle course) and one's time (to complete the event) is recorded. Then the scores are multiplied by a coefficient and added up for the different members. Team with the least time wins. The team may be composed of men, women, old or young. To even it out/ equalize, your performance time is multiplied by a coefficient - the coefficients are different for males vs females, senior vs non-senior citizens.

The case of trans people came up. I asked, "so if a trans female (M to F) competed, which coefficient should be used, the one for males or females? My hikemates agreed that for now, it's a grey area.

I told them (and I still believe) that I am all for LGBTQ+ equality in the workplace, etc. I have colleagues who are openly gay men or butch women. But for sports (and as my hike-mate mentioned - beauty pageants) - where to draw the line? There have been many studies that have shown that testosterone levels give advantage in sports.

We (my hikemates) also talked of the case of Nancy Navalta. She competed in running in the 90s, and brought home awards. In one provincial event, she competed in both men's and women's sprints. Her gender was questioned later on. Upon testing, it was discovered that she had hermaphrodism - she had both male & female parts. Accdg to interviews (not hers, but ppl around her), they said she was born a girl (thus she was given a female name, Nancy) but it seemed as if a bump was developing in her trousers as she was growing up. Her life story was dramatized in a local TV program in the early 2000s. I wasn't able to watch it, but I remembered some of the controversy and she is sometimes mentioned in our social studies/ gender studies classes.

If you'll search for pics of Nancy Navalta, you'll see that she had a "manly" face - very angular. In one of her interviews, I remember that she insisted that she was a girl, was brought up & feels like a girl. She must have felt very confused at that time. She came from a poor family and testing for those things (hermaphrodism) was probably beyond their reach (or their knowledge) at the time - it was the 90s. It was only when she became famous in national sports that it became an issue and she had to be tested. Since the rules were unclear at the time, she dropped out of competitions and went to college instead (accdg to the article).

++++
Just a moment...

Just a moment...

^I don't know if the link abt Nancy Navalta works