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  1. #101
    last farang standing
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    I think the problem with Catholicism is it has become too boring. It needs to stand out with a point of differentiation. Maybe it should go back to its roots and elect a pope like pope alexander IV or pope pius VI from the past that had multitudes of bastard children running around from all the women they were indiscriminately banging.
    Or someone like pope stephen who dug up his predecessors corpse and put him on trial. That would certainly get people to stand up and notice. Maybe they could revive the inquisition or self flagellation. I'm sure they'd get a few converts from TD at least on the last one.

  2. #102
    A Cockless Wonder
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    ^I don't think being boring is the first thing that I would accuse the Catholic Church of.

    Being boring is what is wrong with Protestantism. It has not got enough pomp and circumstance. But I am still keen to understand more about the critical appraisals and perspectives of the Catholic Church upheld by our fine protestant brothers in arms.


    I have acquired some mobile protection this week against the bloodsucking vampire leeches that have been trying to latch onto my ball-bag in the forest of late

    His Holiness The Pope of Rome-20230429_020308-jpg

    I am not sure if I need to get it blessed first or if it works straight out of the box

  3. #103
    last farang standing
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    Try some garlic around your neck.

  4. #104
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    Pope Francis has a fever, Vatican spokesman confirms

    Pope Francis canceled meetings on Friday morning due to a fever, a Vatican spokesman confirmed.

    Matteo Bruni, director of the Holy See Press Office, told CNA that “due to a feverish condition, Pope Francis did not receive [anyone] in audience this morning.”

    Later in the day, journalists spoke to Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican's Secretary of State, who spoke briefly about the pope's condition.

    "The pope was tired. He had a very, very busy day yesterday," Parolin said, according to the French-language media outlet La Presse. "They were telling me last night that he met with a lot of people, and in the context of this meeting with Scholas Occurrentes, he wanted to greet them all, and probably at some point the stamina fails."

    As of Friday afternoon, the pope does not have any public appointments scheduled for May 27, according to the Vatican calendar. He is currently scheduled to say Mass in St. Peter’s Basilica for the solemnity of Pentecost on May 28, followed by the recitation of the Regina Caeli antiphon.

    Pope Francis, 86, was hospitalized for four days at the end of March for a lung infection.

    During his return flight from a three-day trip to Budapest, Hungary, a month later the pope said his “body responded well to the treatment. Thank God.”

    This week Pope Francis had both public and closed-door meetings with Italian bishops for their 77th general assembly. He also led his weekly Wednesday morning audience with the public.

    On Thursday, May 25, Francis met with a group of religious sisters, with bishops and lay delegates of the synodal journey in Italy, and with participants in a congress hosted by Scholas Occurentes.

    Also on May 25, Pope Francis gave an exclusive interview in Spanish to Telemundo News.

    Pope Francis ahead of COP28: Stop the 'madness' of the 'fossil fuel era'
    Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

  5. #105
    A Cockless Wonder
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    Does the pope still have an exorcist?

    I hope he does.

    The Popes Exorcist

    This was quite good fun. Russell Crowe brings some weight to the true story role. The story mixes in references to WWII and the Spanish Inquisition. The demons are diabolical and do the Exorcist 1973 crab-walk up the walls and ceilings.

    There are laser god beams shooting from loaded crucifixes to blast los diabolos to kingdom-come better than anything George Lucas can do and some of the incantations are in Latin.

    I wish they still did mass in Latin somewhere. I think it would be spookier and more like a Harry Potter spell. The English Missal is too pedestrian and does not carry the magical sanctifical powers of the ancient Latin mass.

    His Holiness The Pope of Rome-popeexorcist-jpg

    I learned about the 200 fallen angels referenced in the Apocryphal writings of Enoch.

    I have read the New Testament again recently but I think I might branch out beyond the canonical tome and read these Enochian scribblings which are supposed to be quite spooky, in the manner of Revelations.

  6. #106
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    Pope Francis spends a good night at the hospital after operation, the Vatican says

    Pope Francis, 86, spent a good first night in hospital after a three-hour operation in a Rome hospital to fix a painful hernia, the Vatican said Thursday.

    “The night went well,” the press office said in a short statement, adding that further details would be provided later.

    For the latest headlines, follow our Google News channel online or via the app.

    The Argentine pontiff was said to have been awake and joking with his medical team Wednesday after the abdominal operation at the Gemelli hospital.

    The pope, who underwent colon surgery in 2021, had been suffering from an incisional hernia on the site of a scar from a previous surgery, doctor Sergio Alfieri told reporters Wednesday.

    He was placed under general anesthesia and the abdominal wall was repaired with a surgical mesh, Alfieri said.

    All papal audiences have been canceled until June 18 to give the pontiff time to recover.

    The Vatican said the pope would stay in hospital “several days,” and Alfieri, who operated on him, would not be more specific.

    He said this sort of operation usually requires a stay of between five and seven days, but the pope’s age and illness in March -- when he was hospitalized with a respiratory infection -- may affect his recovery time.

    Francis, who has been the leader of the world’s 1.3 billion Catholics for a decade, has suffered increasing health issues over the past year and his hospital stays have sparked concern and fueled speculation over his future as pontiff.

    Francis’ predecessor, Benedict XVI, who died in December, stepped down in 2013 due to failing health.

    ________

    Pope in good condition at Gemelli Hospital

    As a standard precaution, the Pope will stay in the hospital for 5 to 7 days; on Wednesday evening the Holy See Press Office announced that his audiences have been suspended until 18 June.

  7. #107
    A Cockless Wonder
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    Quote Originally Posted by S Landreth View Post
    Francis’ predecessor, Benedict XVI, who died in December, stepped down in 2013 due to failing health.
    That is a shame as we could have scored a holy trinity of popes if Francis had put his feet up a year earlier.

    That would have made a good photo if they had done a lap of St Peters Square together in the pope-mobile with their matching hats.

  8. #108
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    Get back to work

    Pope discharged following abdominal surgery

    Pope Francis was discharged from a hospital in Rome on Friday, after undergoing abdominal surgery last week.

    The 86-year-old pontiff spent nine days at Gemelli Policlinic hospital, following a surgery to repair a hernia. The pope’s medical team said there were no complications with the procedure and that his “post-operative course and recovery is regular,” according to Vatican News, the Holy See’s official news service.

    “The pope is well. He’s better than before,″ Sergio Alfieri, the doctor who performed the pope’s surgery, said on Friday, according to The Associated Press.

    Pope Francis took a detour on his return to the Vatican to pray at Rome’s Marian Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore, as he previously did after his hospitalization for bronchitis in April and his colon surgery in July 2021.

    The pope will make his routine Sunday appearance to recite the Angelus prayer in St. Peter’s Square but will not hold a general audience on Wednesday to “safeguard the Holy Father’s post-operative recovery,” according to Vatican News.

  9. #109
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    Pope Francis has met Stella Assange, the wife of the imprisoned WikiLeaks founder, who said the pope’s gesture in receiving her was evidence of his “ongoing show of support for our family’s plight” and concern over the suffering of her husband, Julian.

    After the audience, Stella Assange said Francis had sent a letter to her husband in March 2021, during a particularly difficult period. “He has provided great solace and comfort and we are extremely appreciative for his reaching out to our family in this way,” she told the Associated Press. “He understands that Julian is suffering and is concerned.”

    Assange has spent four years in Belmarsh prison in London fighting extradition to the US, where he faces up to 175 years in jail on espionage charges for publishing classified military and diplomatic cables through WikiLeaks. Before that, Assange had claimed asylum for seven years in the Ecuadorian embassy in London in an attempt to avoid extradition to Sweden over sexual assault allegations.

    Sweden dropped its investigations in November 2019 because so much time had elapsed, but British judges have kept Assange in prison pending the outcome of the long-running US extradition case.

    The Vatican did not release any details of the private audience, other than to confirm it happened. The Argentinian Jesuit pope has long expressed solidarity with prisoners, frequently visiting detainees on his foreign visits and prioritising prison ministry when he was archbishop in Buenos Aires.

    Stella Assange, a lawyer who married her husband in prison in 2022, said she and Francis had spoken in Spanish and she had shown him two photos of their wedding. She called the audience “overwhelming” and noted she brought along her mother, brother and the couple’s two young sons, Gabriel and Max, who were conceived during Julian Assange’s time in the embassy.

    The visit comes as Stella Assange has been seeking to drum up political support for her husband’s cause, including with a visit to his native Australia last month. She said there was a growing consensus that his continued detention was inhumane.

    “I have a lot of faith that the situation will change, and there are a lot of people around the world, from all parts of the world here and elsewhere, who are trying to get justice and see freedom for my husband,” she said.

    Citing support from Australia, where dozens of politicians have urged the US to abandon the extradition, she said there was growing consensus that “what is being done to my husband is inhumane, that he is suffering, that he’s been in prison for four years for publishing true information revealing the killing of innocents and criminality and injustice”.

    To his supporters, Assange is a secrecy-busting journalist who exposed US military wrongdoing in Iraq and Afghanistan. American prosecutors allege he helped the former US army intelligence analyst Chelsea Manning steal classified diplomatic cables and military files that WikiLeaks later published, putting lives at risk.

    I wonder if the pope will meet Melania in the coming years.

  10. #110
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    There were other related articles, but not nearly as harsh.




    Pope Francis has chosen a bishop who is a trusted theological adviser from his Argentine homeland for one of the Vatican’s most powerful positions – head of the watchdog office that ensures doctrinal orthodoxy.

    Monsignor Victor Manuel Fernandez, now serving as archbishop of La Plata, Argentina, is tapped to head the Dicastery, or department, for the Doctrine of the Faith.

    The new doctrinal prefect, or chief, has been nicknamed the “pope’s theologian” since he is widely believed to have helped author some of Francis’ most important documents.

    The office enforces orthodoxy of church teaching and disciplines theologians deemed to have strayed from Catholic doctrine in their lectures or publications.

    But the office has taken on considerably more importance in recent decades to rank-and-file faithful as the stain of paedophile priests spread across the globe.

    Among the department’s duties are evaluating and processing sex abuse allegations against clergy.

    Msgr Fernandez is widely believed to have been a key author behind some of Francis’ most consequential documents, notably “God is Love”, a 2016 exhortation that opened the door to letting divorced Catholics who remarry in civil ceremonies to receive Communion.

    Catholic teaching holds that marriage is a sacrament, and that remarried Catholics must live together as brother and sister and abstain from sex as a condition for receiving Communion.

    That prospect – long sought by divorced and remarried Catholics who lament being cut off from the Eucharist – would anger conservative hierarchy and rank-and-file faithful if it were to be codified in teaching some day.

    The new chief replaces retiring Cardinal Luis Ladaria, a Jesuit like Francis who took over in 2017, after the pontiff abruptly removed conservative German Cardinal Gerhard Mueller after a single term as the doctrinal watchdog.

    Cardinal Mueller had been appointed to that post by Pope Benedict XVI, a darling of church conservatives.

    Msgr Fernandez, 60, will take up his post in mid-September, the Vatican said.

    He is a prolific author and biblical expert who has long had support of Francis, who before becoming pontiff in 2013, was Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, archbishop of Buenos Aires.

    Msgr Fernandez has made clear that while archbishop of Buenos Aires, Cardinal Bergoglio supported his nomination as rector of the Catholic University of Argentina after critics raised concerns about some of his doctrinal positions.

    The doctrinal watchdog office has 16th-century roots in a commission established to deal with heresy and schism.

    Known originally as the Sacred Roman and Universal Inquisition, the body also scrutinised matters of faith and morals.

    In a letter to his new appointee that was made public by the Vatican on Saturday, Francis wrote that the office in its current version has as its “central purpose” safeguarding church teaching that springs from faith in order to “give reason for our hope, but not as enemies who point out and condemn”.

  11. #111
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    Pope Francis begins Apostolic Journey to Portugal

    Pope Francis sets off on his 42nd Apostolic Journey abroad to the European nation of Portugal for the 37th World Youth Day in Lisbon, and moment of prayer in Fatima, marking his second visit to the nation as Pope.

    Pope Francis has departed on his 42nd Apostolic Journey abroad to the European nation of Portugal for the 37th World Youth Day.

    The ITA-Airways papal flight left Rome's Fiumicino International Airport at about 8 AM local time Wednesday morning, carrying the Pope and the journalists following the journey from the papal flight.

    On Wednesday morning, before leaving his Vatican residence, Casa Santa Marta, Pope Francis met with some fifteen people, confirmed Matteo Bruni, Director of the Holy See Press Office. "Among them were some young people, girls and boys, who are spending time in a rehabilitation community and are therefore unable to attend World Youth Day."

    With them, were three grandparents with their grandchildren.

    "This meeting, as well as the World Day of Grandparents and Elderly just celebrated, underlines the bond between generations, which can support each other and learn from each other," Bruni's statement concluded.

    The flight is scheduled to arrive at Figo Maduro air base in Portugal’s capital of Lisbon around 10 am local time.

    When the Holy Father lands in Lisbon, he will be received by a welcoming ceremony.

    Immediately afterwards, he will be greeted at the National Palace in Belèm by the President of the Republic Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa.

    Also in the Belèm district, in the cultural centre, the Holy Father will meet the authorities, civil society and the diplomatic corps.

    Following lunch, the Pope has two appointments before returning to the Apostolic Nunciature this evening where he will reside during his Portuguese stay.
    At 4.45 p.m. in the nunciature, he will meet with the Prime Minister.

    At 5.30 p.m., in the famous Monastery dos Jerònimos, he will celebrate Vespers with bishops, priests, deacons, consecrated men and women, seminarians and pastoral workers.

    At the completion of this Journey on Sunday, marking the Pope Francis' second visit to Portugal since the start of his pontificate, he will have visited 60 countries since the start of his pontificate, given that Portugal was already included in this count after his May 2017 visit for the centenary of the apparitions in Fatima.

    As is tradition for Pope Francis before and after Apostolic Journeys, the Holy Father made a special stop to Rome's Marian Basilica, Santa Maria Maggiore, to once again, entrust this travel to the Blessed Mother's protection.






  12. #112
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    Do not be afraid, - Pope Francis tells 1.5 million at World Youth Day

    Pope Francis has encouraged young people around the world to hold on to their hopes and dreams for a better future during the closing Mass of Catholic Church's World Youth Day in Lisbon.

    "Do not be afraid," the pontiff said on Sunday, repeating the call several times. Pope Francis told the young people that they are urgently needed in a world beset by so many problems.

    Around 1.5 million faithful attended the outdoor Mass in the Portuguese capital's Tejo Park. About the same number of people took part in an outdoor prayer vigil on Saturday evening, with many spending the night in sleeping bags and on camping mats in the park.

    In the afternoon, the pontiff was scheduled to meet with World Youth Day volunteers before flying back to Rome in the evening.

    About 700 Catholic bishops and around 10,000 priests joined in celebrating Sunday's service.

    Pope Francis announced at the end of the Mass that the next World Youth Day in 2027 will be held in the South Korean capital of Seoul. It will be just the second time that World Youth Day is held in Asia, after 1995's World Youth Day in Manila.

  13. #113
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    Pope Francis has come under fire after he encouraged Russian youths not to give up their “legacy” as heirs of a “great, enlightened Russian empire.”

    “Never give up this legacy, you are the heirs of the great Mother Russia, go forward with it,” Pope Francis told young Russians gathered for the All-Russian Meeting of Catholic Youth in St. Petersburg on Friday.

    During the speech, a clip of which was posted online, the pope also invoked former Russian emperors Peter I and Catherine II, two rulers who played key roles in expanding Russia’s conquests in Europe, and who are known as symbols of Russian imperialism.

    “You are the heirs of the great Russia: the great Russia of saints, of kings, the great Russia of Peter the Great, of Catherine II, of that great, enlightened Russian empire, of great culture and great humanity,” he said.

    The comments have sparked outrage online, with many criticizing the pope’s decision to praise Russia’s imperialist past, especially considering the Kremlin’s ongoing war in Ukraine.

    However, in the rest of his speech, posted online by the Vatican, the pope tells Russian youth to be “artisans of peace” and to “sow seeds of reconciliations.”

    Pope Francis has repeatedly criticized the Russian invasion of Ukraine, calling for an end to the conflict. But has also made some controversial remarks, seemingly blaming NATO for the conflict, and has refused to denounce Putin by name.

  14. #114
    I Amn't In Jail PlanK's Avatar
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    No mystery there.
    Has anyone seen these two in same room together?


    His Holiness The Pope of Rome-aoxnd2n_460s-jpg

  15. #115
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    Pope Francis has a reputation for visiting some of the world’s most remote countries, even in places where Catholics are few in number. So, it may not be too surprising that this week he will be in Mongolia, a nation with just 1,450 Catholics.

    Francis will arrive in the Mongolian capital on September 1 and stay until September 4, with plans to meet the country’s Catholic faithful, celebrate mass and engage in inter-religious dialogue.

    Talking about the visit at St Peter’s Square on the Sunday before his departure, the 86-year-old pope told the crowd the church there was “small in numbers, but lively in faith and great in charity”.

    But there may be more to the papal visit than religion.

    The pope’s schedule also includes a full day of meetings with Mongolia’s political leaders, with conversations likely to touch on Mongolia’s relations with its two giant neighbours, Russia and China. That is important now more than ever as Francis seeks dialogue between the West and Russia to find a way out of the now-18-month-old war in Ukraine.

    The pope is also looking for avenues to speak to China’s leadership over the governance of that country’s estimated 10 to 12 million Catholics. The Holy See and Beijing have not had official diplomatic relations for more than 70 years and relations between the two have been strained over the appointment of bishops and creation of dioceses despite an agreement on the issue in 2018.

    Pope Francis’ Eastern Mission: His Influence and the Consequences for the Central Asian Region

  16. #116
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    Pope starts Mongolia visit by praising the country's religious freedom dating back to Genghis Khan

    Pope Francis on Saturday praised Mongolia’s tradition of religious freedom dating to the times of its founder, Genghis Khan, as he opened the first-ever papal visit to the Asian nation with a word of encouragement to its tiny Catholic flock.

    Francis met with President Ukhnaagiin Khurelsukh inside a traditional Mongolian ger, or round yurt, set up inside the state palace and wrote a message in the guest book that he was visiting “a country young and ancient, modern and rich of tradition,” as a pilgrim of peace.

    Francis is in Mongolia to minister to one of the world’s newest and smallest Catholic communities — around 1,450 Mongolians are Catholic — and make a diplomatic foray into a region where the Holy See has long had troubled relations, with Russia to the north and China to the south.

    While Christianity has been present in the region for hundreds of years, the Catholic Church has only had a sanctioned presence in Mongolia since 1992, after the country abandoned its Soviet-allied communist government and enshrined religious freedom in its constitution.

    While Catholicism is tolerated and legal, foreign missionaries working here lament that the government restricts their numbers and treats the church as a nongovernmental organization — limitations that the Holy See is hoping will be lifted with a comprehensive bilateral agreement.

    In his remarks, Francis praised Mongolia’s tradition of religious liberty, noting that such tolerance existed even during the period of the Mongol Empire’s vast expansion over much of the world. At its height, the empire stretched as far west as Hungary to become the largest contiguous land empire in world history.

    Nowadays, the landlocked nation sandwiched between Russia and China is overwhelmingly Buddhist, with traditional links to Tibet’s leading lamas, including the Dalai Lama.

    “The fact that the empire could embrace such distant and varied lands over the centuries bears witness to the remarkable ability of your ancestors to acknowledge the outstanding qualities of the peoples present in its immense territory and to put those qualities at the service of a common development,” Francis told the president, diplomats and cultural leaders in remarks at the state palace.

    More in the article



    Francis, 86, quoted from a writings of the Buddha that says "the wise man rejoices in giving", noting it was similar to Jesus' saying "It is more blessed to give than to receive".

  17. #117
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    As Pope Francis begins his second day in Marseille, media outlets across France highlight his message for European nations to respect the human dignity of migrants and rescue them at sea.

    Upon arrival in Marseille on Friday, Pope Francis hit the ground running, immediately launching into activities lined up for this flying weekend visit to the southern French city.

    The “Francis effect” was clearly visible as French media, usually reticent about reporting on religious matters, which however seemed to pull all stops to cover Pope Francis—particularly soon after his arrival. For a moment, the World Rugby games seem to have taken second stage.

    Focus on migrants

    Since his arrival, several television stations have carried wall-to-wall media coverage of Pope Francis’ visit to Marseille.

    The government-owned France 24, a news and current affairs TV channel with international outreach, concentrated its coverage on Saturday morning on Pope Francis’ reminder to European governments that they have a duty to rescue migrants in dangerous situations at sea.

    Soon after arrival, Pope Francis emphasised that rescuing migrants was an obligation of humanity.

    Le Figaro, one of France’s oldest newspapers, followed a similar editorial path, repeating Pope Francis’ message against the forced return of refugees, migrants or asylum seekers.

    La Provence, one of the leading dailies published in Marseille, speaks of a Pope confronting the shipwreck of indifference regarding the death of migrants at sea.

    Security details

    On the other hand, the French mass-circulation newspaper, Le Monde, took a slightly more polemical view, saying that the Pope’s visit to Marseille highlights Pope Francis’s complex relationship with the French people.

    The newspaper also lamented the unprecedented security laid out for the visit of Pope Francis and President Emmanuel Macron to the port city.

    In general, the overall view of the media on Day One of the Pope’s two-day visit was relatively positive and definitely respectful.



  18. #118
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    Pope Francis has suggested there could be ways to bless same-sex unions, responding to five conservative cardinals who challenged him to affirm church teaching on homosexuality ahead of a big meeting where LGBTQ+ Catholics are on the agenda.

    The Vatican on Monday published a letter Francis wrote to the cardinals on 11 July after receiving a list of five questions, or dubia, from them a day earlier. In it, Francis suggests that such blessings could be studied if they did not confuse the blessing with sacramental marriage.

    New Ways Ministry, which advocates for LGBTQ+ Catholics, said the letter “significantly advances” efforts to make LGBTQ+ Catholics welcomed in the church and represented “one big straw towards breaking the camel’s back” in their marginalisation.

    The Vatican holds that marriage is an indissoluble union between man and woman. As a result, it has long opposed gay marriage. But Francis has voiced support for civil laws extending legal benefits to same-sex spouses, and Catholic priests in parts of Europe have been blessing same-sex unions without Vatican censure.

    Francis’ response to the cardinals, however, marks a reversal from the Vatican’s current official position. In an explanatory note in 2021, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith said that the church could not bless gay unions because “God cannot bless sin”.

    Il Papa, restiamo vicino al popolo ucraino che soffre tanto, VATICAN CITY - 27 Aug 2023<br>Mandatory Credit: Photo by Vatican Media/ANSA via ZUMA Press/Shutterstock (14069975d) This handout photo provided by the Vatican Media shows Pope Francis during the Angelus prayer in St. Peter's square, Vatican City, 27 August 2023..ANSA/ VATICAN MEDIA. NPK Il Papa, restiamo vicino al popolo ucraino che soffre tanto, VATICAN CITY - 27 Aug 2023

    In his new letter, Francis reiterated that matrimony is a union between a man and a woman. But responding to the cardinals’ question about homosexual unions and blessings, he said “pastoral charity” required patience and understanding, and priests could not become judges “who only deny, reject and exclude”.

    “For this reason, pastoral prudence must adequately discern whether there are forms of benediction, requested by one or more persons, that do not transmit a mistaken conception of marriage,” he wrote. “Because when a benediction is requested, it is expressing a request for help from God, a plea to be able to live better, a trust in a father who can help us to live better.”

    He said there were situations objectively “not morally acceptable” but the same “pastoral charity” required that people be treated as sinners who might not be fully at fault for their situations.

    Francis added there was no need for dioceses or bishops’ conferences to turn such pastoral charity into fixed norms or protocols, saying the issue could be dealt with on a case-by-case basis “because the life of the church runs on channels beyond norms”.

    Francis DeBernardo, executive director of New Ways Ministry, welcomed the pope’s openness.

    “The allowance for pastoral ministers to bless same-gender couples implies that the church does indeed recognise that holy love can exist between same-gender couples, and the love of these couples mirrors the love of God,” DeBernardo said in a statement. “Those recognitions, while not completely what LGBTQ+ Catholics would want, are an enormous advance towards fuller and more comprehensive equality.”

    The five cardinals, all of them conservative prelates from Europe, Asia, Africa and the Americas, had challenged Francis to affirm church teaching on gay people, women’s ordination, the authority of the pope and other issues in their letter.

    They published the material two days before the start of a major three-week synod at the Vatican at which LGBTQ+ Catholics and their place in the church are on the agenda.

    The signatories were some of Francis’ most vocal critics, all of them retired and of the more doctrinaire generation of cardinals appointed by St John Paul II or Pope Benedict XVI.

    They were Walter Brandmueller of Germany, a former Vatican historian; Raymond Burke of the US, whom Francis axed as head of the Vatican supreme court; Juan Sandoval of Mexico, the retired archbishop of Guadalajara; Robert Sarah of Guinea, the retired head of the Vatican’s liturgy office; and Joseph Zen, the retired archbishop of Hong Kong.

    Brandmueller and Burke were among four signatories of a previous round of dubia to Francis in 2016 after his controversial opening to letting divorced and civilly remarried couples receive communion. Then, the cardinals were concerned that Francis’ position violated church teaching on the indissolubility of marriage. Francis never responded to their questions, and two of their co-signatories subsequently died.

    Francis did respond this time around. The cardinals did not publish his reply, but apparently found it so unsatisfactory that they reformulated their five questions, submitted them to him again and asked him to simply respond with a yes or no. When he did not, the cardinals decided to make the texts public and issue a “notification” warning to the faithful.

    The Vatican’s doctrine office published his reply to them a few hours later, though it did so without his introduction in which he urged the cardinals not to be afraid of the synod.

  19. #119
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    I'm not sure even Frankie would venture into Australia's answer to Pattaya the Gold Coast.

    Mongols, sodomites, protestants even Italians he's prepared to mingle butcher birds and butch birds he'll delegate to our tirelss exploere of the dark unknown and unmown Bush Looper the Lascivious whom god preserve of toy soldiers but real playmates.

    Apparently a Roman reacharound or coming on the friars tits is ok whereas Sodomy is only for Easter Xmas and choirboys
    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile View Post
    your brain is as empty as a eunuchs underpants.
    from brief encounters unexpurgated version

  20. #120
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    "Pope Francis suggests gay couples could be blessed in Vatican reversal. Pope Francis has suggested there could be ways to bless same-sex unions, responding to five conservative cardinals who challenged him to affirm church teaching on homosexuality ahead of a big meeting where LGBTQ+ Catholics are on the agenda."

    ...how very generous of the Holy Prune to decide that reality may be blessed with humbug...
    Majestically enthroned amid the vulgar herd

  21. #121
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    Pope Francis has made his strongest statement yet on the accelerating climate crisis, pinning blame on big industries and world leaders as well as “irresponsible” Western lifestyles, in a blistering statement on Wednesday.

    “Our responses have not been adequate, while the world in which we live is collapsing and may be nearing the breaking point,” the pontiff wrote in a 7,000 word encyclical called Laudate Deum (“Praise God”).

    “Some effects of the climate crisis are already irreversible, at least for several hundred years, such as the increase in the global temperature of the oceans, their acidification and the decrease of oxygen,” he wrote.

    The pope leveled heavy criticism at climate change deniers and delayers.

    “Despite all attempts to deny, conceal, gloss over or relativize the issue, the signs of climate change are here and increasingly evident. No one can ignore the fact that in recent years we have witnessed extreme weather phenomena, frequent periods of unusual heat, drought and other cries of protest,” he wrote.

    Climate change will likely only get worse and ignoring it will heighten “the probability of extreme phenomena that are increasingly frequent and intense,” he wrote.

    The pope paid particular attention to the disproportionate responsibility of rich countries for climate change.

    “If we consider that emissions per individual in the United States are about two times greater than those of individuals living in China, and about seven times greater than the average of the poorest countries, we can state that a broad change in the irresponsible lifestyle connected with the Western model would have a significant long-term impact,” he wrote.

    He also leveled blame at leaders and businesses which he said prioritize short-term profits and gains over climate action. “Regrettably, the climate crisis is not exactly a matter that interests the great economic powers, whose concern is with the greatest profit possible at minimal cost and in the shortest amount of time.”

    He even directed criticism at his own church, referring to “certain dismissive and scarcely reasonable opinions that I encounter, even within the Catholic Church.”

    Note: Apostolic Exhortation Laudate Deum of the Holy Father Francis to all people of good will on the climate crisis

  22. #122
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    ...^yeah fine: several days late and billions of dollars short. What about Ukraine, Your Religiosity? Still paying legal fees for child molesters? Is your deity taking questions concerning inequality, gross poverty or pandemics? Anyway, hope your current gig continues to afford you a comfortable, highly marble-ized lifestyle...

  23. #123
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    ^You might enjoy this bit of news. I did




    Pope Francis on Saturday forcibly removed the bishop of Tyler, Texas, a conservative prelate active on social media who has been a fierce critic of the pontiff and has come to symbolize the polarization within the U.S. Catholic hierarchy.

    A one-line statement from the Vatican said Francis had “relieved” Bishop Joseph Strickland of the pastoral governance of Tyler and appointed the bishop of Austin as the temporary administrator.

    Strickland, 65, has emerged as a leading critic of Francis, accusing him in a tweet earlier this year of “undermining the deposit of faith.” He has been particularly critical of Francis’ recent meeting on the future of the Catholic Church during which hot-button issues were discussed, including ways to better welcome LGBTQ+ Catholics.

    Earlier this year, the Vatican sent in investigators to look into his governance of the diocese, amid reports he was making doctrinally unorthodox claims.

    The Vatican never released the findings and Strickland had insisted he wouldn’t resign voluntarily, saying in media interviews that he was given a mandate to serve by the late Pope Benedict XVI and couldn’t abdicate that responsibility. He had also complained that he hadn’t been told what exactly the pope’s investigators were looking into.

    His firing sparked an immediate outcry among some conservatives and traditionalists who had held up Strickland as a leading point of Catholic reference to counter Francis’ progressive reforms. Michael J. Matt, editor of the traditionalist newspaper The Remnant, wrote that with the firing, Francis was “actively trying to bury fidelity to the Church of Jesus Christ.”

    “This is total war,” Matt wrote on X, formerly Twitter. “Francis is a clear and present danger not only to Catholics the world over but also to the whole world itself.”

    The two Vatican investigators — Bishop Dennis Sullivan of Camden, N.J., and the retired bishop of Tucson, Ariz., Bishop Emeritus Gerald Kicanas — “conducted an exhaustive inquiry into all aspects of the governance and leadership of the diocese,” said the head of the church in Texas, Cardinal Daniel DiNardo.

    After their investigation, a recommendation was made to Francis that “the continuation in office of Bishop Strickland was not feasible,” DiNardo said in a statement Saturday.

    The Vatican asked Strickland to resign Nov. 9, but he declined, prompting Francis to remove him from office two days later, DiNardo’s statement said.

    It is rare for the pope to forcibly remove a bishop from office. Bishops are required to offer to resign when they reach 75. When the Vatican uncovers issues with governance or other problems that require a bishop to leave office before then, the Vatican usually seeks to pressure him to resign for the good of his diocese and the church.

    That was the case when another U.S. bishop was forced out earlier this year following a Vatican investigation. Knoxville, Tenn. Bishop Richard Stika resigned voluntarily, albeit under pressure, following allegations he mishandled sex abuse allegations, and his priests complained about his leadership and behavior.

    But with Strickland, the Vatican statement made clear he had not offered to resign, and that Francis had instead “relieved” him from his job.

    Francis has not been shy about his concerns about conservatives in the U.S. Catholic hierarchy, which has been split between progressives and conservatives who long found support in the doctrinaire papacies of St. John Paul II and Benedict XVI, particularly on issues of abortion and same-sex marriage.

    In comments to Portuguese Jesuits in August, Francis blasted the “backwardness” of these bishops, saying they had replaced faith with ideology and that a correct understanding of Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

    Most recently, Strickland had criticized Francis’ monthlong closed-door debate on making the church more welcoming and responsive to the needs of Catholics today. The meeting debated a host of previously taboo issues, including women in governance roles and welcoming LGBTQ+ Catholics, but in the end, its final document didn’t veer from established doctrine.

    Ahead of the meeting, Strickland said it was a “travesty” that such things were even on the table for discussion.

    ”Regrettably, it may be that some will label as schismatics those who disagree with the changes being proposed,” Strickland wrote in a public letter in August. “Instead, those who would propose changes to that which cannot be changed seek to commandeer Christ’s Church, and they are indeed the true schismatics.”

    In a statement Saturday, the diocese of Tyler announced Strickland’s removal but said the church’s work would continue in Tyler.

    “Our mission is to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ, to foster an authentic Christian community, and to serve the needs of all people with compassion and love,” it said. “We strive to deepen our faith, promote the common good, and create a welcoming environment for all to encounter the loving God – Father, Son, and Spirit.”

    Bishop Strickland relieved of pastoral governance of US diocese - Vatican News

    Resignations and Appointments

  24. #124
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    Pope Francis met separately Wednesday with relatives of Israeli hostages in Gaza and Palestinians living through the war and set off a firestorm by using words that Vatican diplomats usually avoid: “terrorism” and, according to the Palestinians, “genocide.”

    Francis spoke about the suffering of both Israelis and Palestinians after his meetings, which were arranged before the Israeli-Hamas hostage deal and a temporary halt in fighting was announced. Francis didn’t refer to the deal, which marked the biggest diplomatic breakthrough since the war erupted following Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack on southern Israel.

    Francis met at the Vatican with 12 relatives of some of the 240 hostages held by Hamas in Gaza for about 20 minutes. Separately, he met for about the same amount of time with 10 Palestinians whose relatives have been killed or otherwise affected by the war in Gaza, along with priests who minister there.

    Francis spoke about the meetings at the end of his weekly general audience in St. Peter’s Square, where some people in the VIP seats wearing Palestinian scarves held up small posters showing bodies in a ditch and the word “Genocide” written underneath.

    “Here we’ve gone beyond war. This isn’t war anymore, this is terrorism,” Francis told the crowd. “Please, let us go ahead with peace. Pray for peace, pray a lot for peace.”

    He also asked for God to help both Israeli and Palestinian people “resolve problems and not go ahead with passions that are killing everyone in the end.”

    Francis has spoken out repeatedly calling for an end to the war and has tried to maintain the Vatican’s typical diplomatic neutrality in conflicts. The Vatican is particularly concerned about the plight of Christians in Gaza.

    The Hamas attack last month killed about 1,200 people in Israel. Israel’s retaliatory strikes on Gaza have killed more than 11,000 people, according to Palestinian health authorities.

    Members of the Palestinian delegation said they were stunned by Francis’ deep knowledge of the toll the war has taken on the people of Gaza and said he used the term “genocide” to describe it during their private meeting.

    No journalists were present during either meeting.

    “He knew that Gaza has no water,” said Shireen Hilal, who lives in Bethlehem in the West Bank but was part of the delegation. “He knew that there was no electricity. He knew that there is no medicine.”

    The Vatican spokesman, Matteo Bruni, said he didn’t believe that Francis used the term “genocide.”

    “He used the terms he used during the general audience and regardless represent the terrible situation that Gaza is living,” Bruni said.

    But the Palestinians doubled down. “Ten people heard it,” said another member of the delegation, Suhair Anastas, who left Gaza in the last week with her daughter, among those allowed to leave because she also holds a Canadian passport.

    Francis often causes diplomatic kerfuffles with his off-hand comments. He has used the term “genocide” before in reference to the Ottoman-era Turkish attacks on Armenians and, more casually, agreed when asked if the Catholic abuses against Indigenous peoples in Canada amounted to a genocide.

    The Israeli relatives, for their part, thanked Francis for receiving them but some expressed dismay that he didn’t have more time to hear from all members of the delegation. They also questioned his use of the term “terrorism” without saying who had committed it. They expressed hope that he might be able to use his moral authority to help free all the hostages.

    Evgeniia Kozlova, the Russian mother of 27-year-old Andrey Kozlov who was kidnapped by Hamas on Oct. 7 at the music festival in southern Israel, feared that the hostage-release deal would leave her son in Hamas’ hands for years.

    “We know the terms of the exchange of 50 hostages. These are women and children,” she said. Recalling that it took Israel five years to free the detained Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit, “If each of the remaining hostages is released once every five years, then my son will return in 1,000 years,” she said.

    Rachel Goldberg, whose son Hersh Goldberg-Polin was also kidnapped at the music festival, urged Francis and the rest of the world to work for all the hostages to be released.

    “And in the meantime, we would like the International Red Cross or any other humanitarian aid organization on planet Earth to go and see every single hostage and let us know: Are they alive? Have they been treated? Are they getting the care that they need?” she said.

    Pope Francis: Pray for immense suffering of people in Holy Land - Vatican News

  25. #125
    A Cockless Wonder
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    Quote Originally Posted by S Landreth View Post
    “Here we’ve gone beyond war. This isn’t war anymore, this is terrorism,” Francis told the crowd.
    I hope he is talking about those Hamas loonies

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