Thread: His Holiness The Pope of Rome

Possibly the closest we will ever come to a Strayan pope. Cardinal Pell dies in Rome.

Ranked as the 3rd most powerful member of the church during his term as the financial secretariat.

Not doing enough for abuse victims during the secretive 70s and 80s is a fair criticism. But his jailing seems likely to have been on false accusations so he seems to have ended up paying a high price for his culpable cover ups.


Cardinal George Pell remembered as a powerful man with influence inside the Vatican

Within the walls of the Vatican, the shock death of Australian Cardinal George Pell has sent shock waves, as many remember a man with a large but controversial legacy in the city state.
Key points:

George Pell was highly respected as a leader by some factions in the Vatican
The Pope did not mention Cardinal Pell during his address at the Vatican the following morning
Cardinal Pell died of heart complications during a hip replacement surgery

"He was the kind of cardinal who felt himself to be a prince, cardinals are sometimes called the prince of the church," Nina Fabrizio, a Vatican journalist and author told the ABC.

"He expressed a part of the church that felt they are on another level, they believe they don't have to face the judgement of the man, they only have to face the judgement of God.

"That's the kind of mentality that is in the church [and has been] for many years, but with Pope Francis it's started changing now, but is still there."

Vatican journalist and author Nina Fabrizo said she had spoken to George Pell mere days ago.(ABC News: Isabella Higgins)

Many inside the city found the 81-year-old's death unexpected and can recount stories of seeing him around the Vatican in recent days.

"I was very surprised when I heard he had died in the night because we had been together at dinner just a few evenings before," German Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller told the ABC.

He had been living with the Australian in recent weeks in an apartment just outside the Vatican City gates, showing the ABC messages the pair had exchanged in recent times.

Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller with George Pell's book, including an inscription from the late Australian cleric.(ABC News: Isabella Higgins)

"I saw him just days ago and he wanted to discuss Pope Francis' recent homily … he was always an enigmatic presence here, always happy to talk," Ms Fabrizio said.
Pell wanted 'protection' from Pope during trial

At the time George Pell was charged by Victorian authorities for historical sexual abuse against two minors in 1990's, he was the third-most-senior-figure within the Vatican.
George Pell to be buried at St Mary's Cathedral in Sydney

Cardinal George Pell is to be laid to rest in the crypt which holds the remains of some of Australia's most high-profile Catholic figures.
George Pell walks past a sandstone church wearing a jacket
Read more

The criminal trial against George Pell left the church bruised and in a very vulnerable and difficult position with the public, Ms Fabrizio said.

"[Pope Francis] didn't give the protection to Cardinal Pell that maybe that was cardinal was expecting," she said.

"There was a precedent that the Vatican protects people from prison or poor treatment … but Pope Francis said, 'I trust you, I trust your innocence, but you have to demonstrate it to the court'".

Pell took a leave of absence in 2017 to defend himself in Australia.
Read more on the death of Cardinal George Pell:

'Many admirers, many opponents': The polarising views on George Pell's legacy
From country Victoria to the heart of the Vatican: George Pell's rise within the Catholic Church

The first trial of the Australian cardinal ended with a hung jury, before a second found him guilty and he was sentenced to six years in prison.

Just over a year later, the decision was quashed by Australia's High Court, and not long after the cleric returned to the Vatican.

"The public would like more openness on these abuse issues, more collaboration with the police, with the civil authorities," said Ms Fabrizio.

"There are some priests who still think that if something happens in a church, in a parish, it must be resolved inside the parish, they don't understand that it's a crime."

Cardinal Muller is a fierce defender of Pell, and shares many of his conservative viewpoints.

"I think generally all has been done that's possible for the victim and against those who are guilty, Cardinal Muller said.

"So we must turn to prevention, for the future to learn from the mistakes."
The Pope, dressed in traditional white, sits on a white leather chair and speaks into a microphone, holding notes in his hand
Pope Francis released a statement on Cardinal Pell's death, but did not mention him during his weekly general audience later that morning.(Reuters: Remo Casilli)

Meanwhile, Pope Francis praised Pell for persevering in trying times in his written remembrance note to fellow clergy.

Many assume it is a reference to the time spent in prison and on trial before he was fully acquitted.

The pontiff also thanked Pell, who served as the Holy See's economy minister, for laying the groundwork for financial reform in the Vatican with "determination and wisdom."
'A saint' to clergy offering an orthodox vision

Cardinal Pell was an alternative leadership figure to those in the Vatican dissatisfied with Pope Francis leadership — especially those who craved a more orthodox approach, Christopher Lamb from Catholic publication the Tablet told the ABC.

"To his supporters, he's almost already a saint," he said.

"He was a figure who those who are not so sympathetic to Pope Francis were coalescing around him."
A man with dark blonde hair and glasses looks at the camera with a soft neutral expression
Christopher Lamb said Cardinal Pell held a lot of influence in the Vatican.(ABC News)

Vatican-watchers said the church lost two strong conservative figures in recent weeks with the death Emeritus Pope Benedict XVI and now Cardinal Pell.

Some believe it could open the door for a change of direction in church leadership.

Cardinal Pell was in charge of Vatican finances between 2014 and 2019 and was best known for his work reforming the Vatican's bookkeeping.

"He began the great reform of the finances of the Vatican … he was a brilliant administrator," said Cardinal Muller.

"He did face quite a lot of resistance inside the Vatican to his attempts to reform the way that the Vatican handled money," Mr Lamb said.

"But as we know about George Pell, he wasn't afraid to go into battle to try and get what he thought needed to happen, happen," he said.

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2023-01-12/pope-francis-vatican-george-pell-dies/101846766

Yay another dead paedo.

• The hidden meanings of Pope Benedict XVI’s ruby-red shoes

Were they really Prada? In the end, after all those rumors and all that tongue-clucking, no. But were Benedict’s red shoes still worth all the hype and attention they garnered? Arguably, yes.

When Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger became Pope Benedict XVI in 2005, observers across the globe noted with interest that he had opted for red outdoor shoes, reviving a centuries-old tradition that had lately gone dormant. Red dress shoes, worn by anyone, are a statement. But for Pope Benedict XVI, who died Saturday at 95, the statement may have been about his relationship with the Catholic Church — and how he saw his role in it.

Historically, all popes wore red shoes — before Benedict’s predecessor, Pope John Paul II, whose tenure lasted nearly three decades, exercised his right to opt out and switched to a more demure burgundy. (They also wore red indoor slippers, before Pope Paul VI discontinued the practice, for good, in the 1960s.)

The color has a variety of significances: Some believe it is a reminder of Jesus’ bloodied feet when he was crucified, while others believe it represents the spilled blood of Catholic martyrs. Ancient kings are said to have worn red as a symbol of status, because the dye required to make it came from rare sea snails; aristocrats and royalty continued the tradition, and some believe the church adopted the color as a way for popes to assert their equal “worldly authority.”

When Benedict opted to revive the red-shoes tradition, they were a sensation. Rocco Palmo, the Philadelphia-based editor of the Catholic news site Whispers in the Loggia, still remembers seeing them for the first time in person in 2008. “My first thought to myself was, ‘Oh my God, those shoes are really red.’ Despite having been quite familiar with them, there was something in the flesh that made them pop,” he says now, with a laugh.

The Prada rumor, which originated in the Italian press, Palmo says, “was kind of the beginning of, you know, the internet being able to say something, regardless of the veracity of it.”

The Vatican later clarified that the shoes were custom-made for him not by Prada but by other Italian cobblers. Some were by Antonio Arellano, based in Rome. Others were by Adriano Stefanelli, in the northwest Italian city of Novara. Stefanelli shared with The Washington Post a 2005 letter from the Vatican officially inviting him to design shoes for the new pope. “The Holy Father wears shoes in size 42, normal,” it reads in Italian, “and has no foot problems whatsoever.”

When Esquire named Benedict to its list of best-dressed men in 2007 and specifically called out his footwear, Stefanelli tells The Post in an email, it “made me famous across the world, which fills me with pride.”

Benedict would go on to revive a few other papal clothing traditions as well. In 2006, he wore a red cappello romano sun hat (also known as a saturno), a style that hadn’t been worn since before John Paul II. And that came a year after what Vatican-watchers remember as a rare internet-breaking pope fashion moment: the Christmas camauro of 2005. A few days before the holiday, at a special outdoor edition of his weekly “general audience” appearance, Benedict wore a traditional papal winter head covering, historically made of red velvet with a white ermine trim. Which looks — uncannily, adorably — like a Santa Claus hat. The style had not been worn by a pope since John XXIII, who died in 1963.

Many have taken Benedict’s returning-to-traditions clothing choices as evidence of his staid, returning-to-traditions approach to Catholic doctrine. Palmo sees it slightly differently.

Benedict was much more introverted and scholarly than his charismatic predecessor, Palmo notes, and once called his vast book collection his “old friends.” Of the Christmas camauro, Palmo posits that the weather was cold and that the pope simply reached for something that had been stashed away in the archives of the church. But to Palmo, that in itself was telling: “I think it did speak to — to a degree, at least — his theological emphases,” Palmo says, “in that the church has a lot hanging around that could be useful.”

Palmo also interprets Benedict’s journeys into the deep recesses of the Vatican costume closet as statements of his commitment to putting the papacy before the pope. Others, such as John Paul II and Francis, have incorporated their own personal styles into what they wore on the job. Benedict, in contrast, wore the vesture like a uniform, emphasizing his notion of the papacy not as a glamorous appointment but as the humble, humbling job of leading the Catholic Church. The approach is fitting, Palmo notes, for the first man in nearly 600 years to resign from being the pope, leaving the office not like a king but like someone whose tour of duty had concluded.

Upon his resignation, Benedict retired his red shoes in favor of brown leather loafers made in León, Mexico. How a pope emeritus should dress, of course, was a question without an established answer; as Palmo puts it: “The whole concept of the pope emeritus was invented on the fly.” But Benedict’s eventual uniform was clearly aimed at creating distance from the new pope. He also ditched the mozzetta (a cape traditionally worn over the shoulders of the pope) as well as the pope’s traditional sash.

“For a church with a long history, including a history of rival claimants to the papacy, setting careful precedents was important,” Arthur P. Urbano wrote in America magazine in 2013. “ … Putting aside red shoes reserves the privileged combination of white and red for the new pope.” Francis, however, has made black orthopedics made by Argentine shoemaker Carlos Samaria his signature look.

Traditionally, popes have been buried in their ceremonial red shoes. Will the once-in-a-millennium pope emeritus be buried in them, too? Palmo speculates so. “The shoes will, in all likelihood, be there.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...pope-benedict/

Will the once-in-a-millennium pope emeritus be buried in them, too? Palmo speculates so. “The shoes will, in all likelihood, be there.”

Don't think so.....

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Yay another dead paedo.

Fuck off Harry, you utter prick.

Originally Posted by S Landreth

Francis, however, has made black orthopedics made by Argentine shoemaker Carlos Samaria his signature look.

...bravo! fashion forward while blessing the masses and reaping for his lord...sling backs with 3-inch heels point the way to heaven...

Originally Posted by tomcat

sling backs with 3-inch heels point the way to heaven...

That's not where these c u n t s go, I'm sure.

• George Pell wrote memo calling papacy of Pope Francis a ‘catastrophe’

Cardinal George Pell was the author of an anonymous memo condemning the papacy of Pope Francis as a “catastrophe” where political correctness held sway while global wrongs were ignored, says the journalist who published it.

Released last year under the pseudonym Demos, the document accuses the pope of silence on moral issues, including the German Catholic church’s openness to the LGBTQ community, female priests and communion for the divorced.

“Commentators of every school, if for different reasons … agree that this pontificate is a disaster in many or most respects; a catastrophe,” the memo begins.

“Decisions and policies are often ‘politically correct’, but there have been grave failures to support human rights in Venezuela, Hong Kong, mainland China, and now in the Russian invasion.

“These issues should be revisited by the next Pope. The Vatican’s political prestige is now at a low ebb.”

The Italian journalist Sandro Magister, a conservative Catholic himself with a long record of leaking authentic Vatican documents, revealed Pell’s authorship in his religious affairs blog Settimo Cielo. “He wanted me to publish it,” Magister said on Thursday.

Pell, 81, who spent more than a year in jail before being acquitted of sexual abuse allegations, died on Tuesday night in a Rome hospital of heart failure.

Father Joseph Hamilton, Pell’s personal secretary, declined to comment on Magister’s report, saying in a text message that he was “more preoccupied by my grief”.

The Vatican spokesperson Matteo Bruni said he had no comment.

Pell appeared to like the more liberal-minded Francis personally, but not how he ran the church. Francis supported Pell privately during the abuse saga and on the day of the acquittal offered mass for all who suffer unjust sentences.

Magister said Pell was a frequent visitor to his home and during one visit the late cardinal showed him the English-language text he wanted to circulate among cardinals.

The general treatment of many subjects discussed in the memo is similar to the way Pell spoke of them in public, including in an interview with Reuters in 2020. But the document, written with a view to the election of the next pope, becomes more personal and scathing, including naming specific people.

The author asserts that “Christ is being moved from the centre” under Francis, and that “the Christo-centric legacy of St John Paul II in faith and morals is under systematic attack”.

He accuses one cardinal from northern Europe of being “explicitly heretical” on church teachings about sexuality and laments the “active persecution” of traditionalist Catholics.

“The political influence of Pope Francis and the Vatican is negligible,” the author writes. “Intellectually, Papal writings demonstrate a decline from the standard of St John Paul II and Pope Benedict.”

The memo shows particular familiarity with the Vatican’s financial situation, which occupies about 25% of the document. Pell was the Vatican’s economy minister from 2014 to 2017.

In a section under the heading “The Next Conclave”, the author writes that the College of Cardinals “has been weakened by eccentric nominations” an apparent reference to Francis naming cardinals from far-flung places with relatively few Catholics, such as Mongolia.

“The first tasks of the new pope will be to restore normality, restore doctrinal clarity in faith and morals, restore a proper respect for the law and ensure that the first criterion for the nomination of bishops is acceptance of the apostolic tradition,” the memo reads.

^The tentacles of the internecine intrigue around Cardinal Pell's infamous memo continue to wrap themselves around the pontiff's progressive papacy

I do think he has got a point.

Francis is a mice enough chap but a tad disappointing and tame in his bowing and scraping approach to the politically incumbent left in the culture wars


Shocking 'secret' memo attacking the Pope ensures George Pell's crusade will outlive him

For better or worse, Cardinal George Pell's influence is far from over.

Not yet in the grave, his vigorous crusade to save the Catholic church from itself continues — and not just the Australian church.

He had been actively working against the current pope, and to secure the right man to be the next.

Italian journalist Sandro Magister has outed Pell as the author of an anonymous memo deeply critical of the pontificate of Pope Francis. Magister published the memo back in March 2022, so it has had a long time to circulate and do its work.

"Disaster" and "catastrophe" are some of the words Cardinal Pell used to describe the current pope's reign.

The wow factor in this leak cannot be underestimated.

Magister does not like Pope Francis, and we only have his word that Pell was the author, but it has been taken as credible internationally and seems very possible.

A source closest to the Cardinal remarked: “Have you ever known the Cardinal not to take anything front on?” That does ring true, but perhaps when it comes to speaking out about the highly secretive conclave, this is an exception.

Never before have we seen such clear public lobbying by a cardinal on the election of a future pope, or such clear and specific criticism of a pope by a living cardinal.
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Play Video. Duration: 6 minutes 37 seconds
How will Cardinal George Pell be remembered?
Inside the secret memo

The memo describes what sort of person is needed at the next conclave.

It reads:

"The first tasks of the new pope will be to restore normality, restore doctrinal clarity in faith and morals, restore a proper respect for the law and ensure that the first criterion for the nomination of bishops is acceptance of the apostolic tradition".

In other words, he needs to know what is authentically Catholic and put it into practice at all levels of authority.

The memo also covers human rights and political issues, like the Russian war, Venezuela, Hong Kong and China. So it's not just talking about internal church stuff. It is a view that opposes "the world, the flesh, and the devil".

It's an approach we have become used to hearing in Australia under the influence of Pell, but it's unlike Pope Francis who continues urging the church to listen to the wider world (and especially the lay members of the Catholic church).

The memo argues that only leaders who have "fidelity to the teachings of Christ and Catholic practices" should be in charge — implying some archbishops and bishops don't. The memo implies that its author knows which ones do, but that the current pope doesn't get it.
An older man wears a grey suit jacket and black priest's shirt.
Pell represents a faction within the College of Cardinals, as well as within the Australian church. The memo suggests that he may have led the conservative faction of cardinals.(AAP: Erik Anderson)

It criticises "eccentric" appointments of cardinals by this pope (who has made a point of including cardinals from nations who have never had them before). It also calls one fellow cardinal a "heretic". A quaint term, but a potentially deadly one within Vatican circles.

It claims the current pope does not have much internal support, neither from the Curia nor the younger clergy.

It touches upon most right-wing conservative Catholic concerns and is an attempt to lobby support against the policies of the current pope. Basically, it seeks to replace Pope Francis with a pope who will wind back his reforms.

The memo provides strategic information about the Vatican's financial situation — which is no surprise now we know who wrote it.

As a one-time Prefect for the Economy in the Vatican, Pell was in a unique position to know the internal workings of Vatican finance. He also knew where to lay blame, and quite a bit of it he has laid at the feet of Pope Francis.
Pell was not an outlier

In the end, the memo outlines an agenda opposed to the consultative and decentralising processes promoted by Pope Francis ("synodality") and appeals for a return to centralised and more authoritarian governance of the Catholic church.

But the odd thing in the memo is that while it criticises a lack of papal control, it attacks Pope Francis for implementing reforms using direct papal authority via papal decrees (motu-proprios).
Victims will not dance on Pell's grave

Catholic child sexual abuse survivor Julie Stewart wrote to me just after hearing the news about the sudden death of George Pell. For hundreds like her, it was a triggering day.
A man wearing a black robe holds his fingers to his temple as he speaks.
Read more

The memo had been circulated anonymously and is a clear attempt to influence the next papal conclave. And it may still do so. The memo is now so widely published, it would be hard to imagine any future Cardinal voters have not read it.

Pell was not simply an outlier. He represents a faction within the College of Cardinals, as well as within the Australian church. The memo suggests that he may have led the conservative faction of cardinals.

Their agenda is now clearly spelled out by him, and very much public.

But there are now also at least 83 cardinals appointed by Pope Francis (the majority out of 132). He chose them specifically for their pastoral expertise as opposed to their political nous.

So the numbers are not likely in favour of the Pell faction.

It's ironic that Catholics are taught the Holy Spirit chooses the pope in the conclave. This could all be interpreted as quite political.
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Play Video. Duration: 3 minutes 9 seconds
Cardinal George Pell obituary
An enduring influence

George Pell was long accustomed to having influence of all sorts. He was also a member of the Roman Congregation for Bishops — the body that vets and selects bishops for the Catholic world (now called the Dicastery for Bishops) — from 2012.

That means that from 2012, he had a direct influence on the choosing and appointment of bishops here in Australia and elsewhere.

The current archbishops of Sydney and Melbourne were both proteges of Pell.
Read more on the death of Cardinal George Pell:

'Many admirers, many opponents': The polarising views on George Pell's legacy
From country Victoria to the heart of the Vatican: George Pell's rise within the Catholic Church

Archbishop Anthony Fisher in Sydney was promoted in 2014, and Archbishop Peter Andrew Comensoli in Melbourne in 2018. Both younger — and with the experience of younger men — but both bishops Pell had mentored.

There are others, of course, including bishops not aligned with the Pell agenda.

The Bishop of Parramatta springs to mind as a strong example of a "Pope Francis bishop".

So, to an extent, does Bishop Shane Mackinlay from Sandhurst, who distinguished himself at Australia's national reform meeting of Catholics — the Plenary Council.

That recent Plenary Council — which is a full meeting of the church at the highest level — was loaded with culture war stuff and various factions. A local microcosm of the broader international Catholic culture wars that are contended in this memo.

Whether on the subject of women in governance, or LGBT people, or insisting on the formal consultation of lay Catholics, the Australian Plenary Council reflected these very same tensions.
The polarising views on George Pell's legacy

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese says the death of George Pell has come as a shock for many, but a clergy abuse survivor who started a petition to have Cardinal defrocked in 2020 says the news will spark mixed emotions.
Man in white robe and red cap reading from book.
Read more

It was slightly more contained than the more explosive German "Synodal Way", where, for example, members directly called for a change in Catholic teaching on homosexuality.

But the Australian one did grind to a halt as a protest erupted on the floor over the role of women.

The Pell faction did not win that one on the floor (at least). Mackinlay suspended the process and managed the dramatic moment in a way that left the factions able to vote and achieve an outcome.

Without going through them one by one — and after hearing the variety of competing views at that council — suffice it to say the 41 current bishops of Australia have a range of views.

And in the Plenary, they have heard a great deal directly from lay Catholics on how the Australian church ought to be shaped in the future.

The future of the Australian Catholic church depends on many factors, but George Pell and his legacy will be part of that future. One way or another.

Noel Debien is a broadcaster with the ABC's religion and ethics unit.

https://www.abc .net.au/news/2023-01-15/george-pell-will-cotinue-to-shape-the-future-the-catholic-church/101850254

Originally Posted by Looper

Francis is a mice enough chap but a tad disappointing and tame in his bowing and scraping approach to the politically incumbent left in the culture wars

You do understand Pell was a wacko?

Originally Posted by Looper

Pell was not simply an outlier. He represents a faction within the College of Cardinals, as well as within the Australian church. The memo suggests that he may have led the conservative faction of cardinals.

Their agenda is now clearly spelled out by him, and very much public.

But there are now also at least 83 cardinals appointed by Pope Francis (the majority out of 132). He chose them specifically for their pastoral expertise as opposed to their political nous.

So the numbers are not likely in favour of the Pell faction.

It seems Pell’s legacy is pretty much up in smoke

Originally Posted by Looper

The future of the Australian Catholic church depends on many factors, but George Pell and his legacy will be part of that future. One way or another.

“Future”

Doubt it

History. Yes. And hope it doesn’t repeat itself

^I am not really up to speed on Catholic politics.

I have only recently started re-exploring my mystical mojo.

If God in his infinite wisdom has seen fit to cover the earth and all its lands with a plague of wokists then perhaps I need to go on a 40 day retreat in the outback and look within myself to understand this phenomenon instead of kicking against the pricks

Originally Posted by S Landreth

You do understand Pell was a wacko?

How so?

Let us sit down and break bread together brother Landreth and see if we can unravel the motivations that made the cantakerous cardinal tick

Originally Posted by Looper

If God in his infinite wisdom has seen fit to cover the earth and all its lands with a plague of wokists then perhaps I need to go on a 40 day retreat in the outback and look within myself to understand this phenomenon instead of kicking against the pricks

Instead of all those Hurricane, Tempest and Juncker model builds, you should consider building an Arc.

I'm sure Miss Surabaya would be honored to accompany you

Originally Posted by S Landreth

You do understand Pell was a wacko?

Originally Posted by Looper

How so?

Let us sit down and break bread together brother Landreth and see if we can unravel the motivations that made the cantakerous cardinal tick

It’ll be a very short meeting, but we can go down this road and in the end you and Noel Debien (The “Christian”/author of the piece you posted) will be sadly disappointed. Pell (like a few others on this forum) is a certified wacko.

I am not a Cardinal connoisseur SL

So I am curious to get your insight as to the nature of his wacko-ness.

Clearly I need to choose my cardinals carefully given that I am novice noob on the road back to Damascus.

I read the whole of the new testament last week.

Its a pot boiler. I won't tell you how it ends.

I have only read it once before, over 10 years ago, when I was doing it as a dry atheistic intellectual sneering exercise.

I enjoyed it much more this time round with a faint twinkle of mystical misty-eyed-ness.

Originally Posted by Looper

I am not a Cardinal connoisseur SL

So I am curious to get your insight as to the nature of his wacko-ness.

Clearly I need to choose my cardinals carefully given that I am novice noob on the road back to Damascus.

I read the whole of the new testament last week.

Its a pot boiler. I won't tell you how it ends.

I have only read it once before, over 10 years ago, when I was doing it as a dry atheistic intellectual sneering exercise.

I enjoyed it much more this time round with a faint twinkle of mystical misty-eyed-ness.

Dry atheists insist that you cease and desist.

Catholicism has had its chance, and along with other religions, is now in terminal decline. Trying to make folk guilty because they no longer follow a false prophet, died out decades ago.

Originally Posted by Looper

I am not a Cardinal connoisseur SL

So I am curious to get your insight as to the nature of his wacko-ness.

I am not a religious person.

When I was younger, I went to church with the family and Sunday school (yes, the nuns did carry rulers but would only tap your desk to get your attention) until my stepfather had a falling out with a new priest who wanted him to contribute 10% of his earnings to the church.

About the wacko, Pell........

In one column in 2008, Pell wrote that global warming had “ceased” because some parts of the planet had seen unusually cold weather and snowfalls.

• George Pell saw climate science as a dangerous religious dogma – in the end his hardline stance held the church back

The late Cardinal George Pell left a legacy of climate science denial which – in his later years – became ever more distanced from reality and the position of the Catholic church.

For decades in newspaper columns and speeches, Pell popularised climate denial talking points to dismiss the science of global heating and to brand environmentalists as hysterical and in the grip of a pseudo-religion.

In one 2011 interview with Catholic media, Pell said: “In the past, pagans sacrificed animals and even humans in vain attempts to placate capricious and cruel gods. Today, they demand a reduction in carbon dioxide emissions.”

Climate change was mostly natural, Pell often argued, and the science linking human emissions to the warming of the planet was not settled.

“He was really quite prolific and wrote so many climate denial pieces,” says Prof Tim Stephens, an expert on international environment law at the University of Sydney, who corresponded with Pell several times over the issue. “It seemed to occupy quite a bit of his time.

“He was too caught up in the rightwing cultural view of climate change being a hoax or a conspiracy.

“I wrote to him with a genuine offer to give him more mainstream information instead of conspiratorial talking points. It was clear it was having no impact and his mind was completely closed.”

Pell, who died in Rome this week aged 81, used his position as Australia’s most senior Catholic to forcefully reject concerns over a climate crisis.

“It wasn’t just that he was repeating climate denial talking points, he was also delving deeply into the contrarian literature and quoting it,” says Stephens, who is a practising Catholic.

In one column in 2008, Pell wrote that global warming had “ceased” because some parts of the planet had seen unusually cold weather and snowfalls.

These were, he wrote, “inconvenient facts for the climate-change bandwagon … and it is an intolerant bandwagon with loud, exaggerated claims that the issue is settled and that an unchallenged consensus among scientists confirms the hypothesis of dangerous, humanly caused global warming.”

Citing a book by Australian mining figure and geologist Prof Ian Plimer, Pell wrote in 2009: “Evidence shows the wheels are falling from the climate catastrophe bandwagon.”

In his highest profile address on climate change, Pell delivered a 2011 lecture in London at the sceptical thinktank the Global Warming Policy Foundation, which was founded by Thatcher-era UK treasurer Lord Nigel Lawson.

Pell pulled together a cavalcade of talking points that climate scientists reviewed and dismissed as “dreadful”, “utter rubbish” and “flawed.”

Five years later, the former Australian prime minister Tony Abbott followed in the footsteps of his friend and mentor, delivering the same annual lecture to the same thinktank, with similar themes.

On the eve of the Paris climate conference in 2015, the former prime minister Kevin Rudd publicly challenged Pell, who was climbing the ranks of seniority in the Vatican.

It was no small matter, said Rudd, that Pell was muddying the ethical waters with his radical climate scepticism.

But Stephens says the dam wall of Pell’s climate denial broke in 2015 when Pope Francis released his encyclical on the environment – Laudato Si – calling for global action on climate change to mitigate the risk of serious consequences for ecosystems and humanity.

“He was an outlier among bishops in Australia,” he says. “But it didn’t stop his criticism [of climate science].”

Neil Ormerod, a retired professor of theology formerly at the Australia Catholic University, says Pell ignored the encyclical.

“It made no difference to him,” he says. “But Laudato Si will be remembered long after George Pell becomes a footnote in history.”

Ormerod remembers discussing climate change with Pell in about 2009 and being shocked by his scepticism.

“He was my employer at the time,” Ormerod says. “Part of it was that George was a political animal and he grew up in a world of anti-communists and with the collapse of communism, they needed a new opponent to focus their concerns.

“Really he saw the emerging green movement as a new form of communism. He referred to them as watermelons – green on the outside but red on the inside. He saw it as neopagan.”

Pell and Abbott shared similar ideas about the validity of climate science and the broader environmental movement – both believing environmentalism was a form of dangerous religious dogma.

“If nothing else, Pell provided Abbott with spiritual succour for maintaining this very hardline climate change denialism position,” Ormerod says.

Even when papal teaching was moving in the opposite direction, Ormerod says, Pell’s scepticism provided cover for the likes of Abbott, who were able to point to Pell’s scepticism as being consistent with their religious beliefs.

Among the church hierarchy, Ormerod says, Pell’s hardline stance held the organisation back and muted any response to the growing threat of climate change.

“Pell’s position on climate was disappointing, but it was just one of many disappointments,’ he says. “On a range of social issues, whether it be sexuality or industrial relations, he took a very conservative line politically and aligned himself with these retrograde political movements. And that held us back.”

George Pell,…… a footnote in history

And again...That should not be repeated.

Originally Posted by S Landreth

Pell popularised climate denial talking points to dismiss the science of global heating and to brand environmentalists as hysterical and in the grip of a pseudo-religion.

If I've told you once Landreth I've told you twice. Keep your climate shit in that other thread

Only joking mate your climate shit is very welcome in the Holy Pope of Rome thread any day of the week and especially on Sunday.

Originally Posted by S Landreth

I am not a religious person.

My candid take is that your commitment to the climate cause does seem to border on religiosity at times!

I am sure you would not dispute that you are TDs No1 environmental evangelist.

Originally Posted by S Landreth

He was really quite prolific and wrote so many climate denial pieces

That is interesting. I was not expecting a climate angle from you on this one.

The late Cardinal is famous/infamous on many counts but his climate views are not what most people know him for.

Anyway I thank you for your Cardinal criticism clarification.

Originally Posted by S Landreth

I am not a religious person.

Intellectually speaking I am not religious either but I am dabbling in religiosity again as part of my investigation into its evolutionary psychological origins.

• Pope Francis calls laws criminalizing homosexuality "unjust"

Pope Francis in an interview with AP published Wednesday called laws that criminalize homosexuality "unjust."

Why it matters: The pope's remarks build on his earlier expressions of support for the LGBTQ community, which has traditionally been marginalized by the church.

What he's saying: "Being homosexual is not a crime ... but it's a sin," the pope told AP.

• "Fine, but first let’s distinguish between a sin and a crime. It’s also a sin to lack charity with one another."

The big picture: While the pope hasn't distanced himself from Catholic teachings that homosexual acts are "intrinsically disordered," he has in recent years displayed outreach to LGBTQ people — notably when he expressed support for the first time for same-sex civil unions during a 2020 documentary.

• Francis last year called on parents not to condemn their children if they're gay and a Jesuit priest who ministers to LGBTQ Catholics shared a letter from the pope in June 2021 praising his work.

Yes, but: In March of that year, the Vatican in a decree approved by the pope said Catholic priests cannot bless such unions because God "does not and cannot bless sin."

__________

Originally Posted by Looper

My candid take is that your commitment to the climate cause does seem to border on religiosity at times!

I am sure you would not dispute that you are TDs No1 environmental evangelist.

Not sure about that. But I do try to keep everyone aware of current situation and try to tamp down the noise: https://twitter.com/RARohde/status/1614991656583041024

Noise......

“In one column in 2008, Pell wrote that global warming had “ceased” because some parts of the planet had seen unusually cold weather and snowfalls.”

Originally Posted by Looper

If I've told you once Landreth I've told you twice. Keep your climate shit in that other thread

OK. That’s enough from me related to climate change and Pell on this thread. I had to take one more shot

I am going to spook out all the rooms in my house with crucifixes for 2023. I am thinking it would be wise since my recent leech bites may attract vampire bats

I bought another vintage crucifix, but this one arrived minus a crucial nail...

But fear not for I still have safely stashed away the actual rusty nail that went right through my foot in 2015 and sent me to the emergency room for an X-Ray and tetanus. Painful doing the clutch pedal with a nail stuck through your foot but I am too tight-arse to shell out for an ambleeance

So I hope it would not be unbefitting to re-crucify Our Lord with My Own Personal Jesus crucifixion nail

Philosophy poses questions that may be answered.

Religion poses answers that must never be questioned!

Not surprised by that at all!

Well, somebody ​did it.

Or was it Mr Nobody again?

I think the controversial twitter-jockey Professor Peterson could be on the money here...

https://anglican.ink/2023/03/07/jord...-pope-francis/

He took issue with the Pope replacing piety with politics.

Father Francis does have an irksome tendency towards pandering political hand-wringing.


I am liking this new vintage crucifix I got.

Jesus looks especially spooky in ghostly white, so I think this one will go on the bedroom wall.

too soon?

Pope Francis allows women to vote at bishops' meetings, a historic shift

Pope Francis has decided to give women the right to vote at an upcoming meeting of bishops, an historic reform that reflects his hopes to give women greater decision-making responsibilities and laypeople more say in the life of the Catholic Church.

Francis approved changes to the norms governing the Synod of Bishops, a Vatican body that gathers the world's bishops together for periodic meetings, following years of demands by women to have the right to vote.

The Vatican on Wednesday published the modifications he approved, which emphasize his vision for the lay faithful taking on a greater role in church affairs that have long been left to clerics, bishops and cardinals.

Catholic women's groups that have long criticized the Vatican for treating women as second-class citizens immediately praised the move as historic in the 2,000-year life of the church.

"This is a significant crack in the stained glass ceiling, and the result of sustained advocacy, activism and the witness" of a campaign of Catholic women's groups demanding the right to vote, said Kate McElwee of the Women's Ordination Conference, which advocates for women priests.

Ever since the Second Vatican Council, the 1960s meetings that modernized the church, popes have summoned the world's bishops to Rome for a few weeks at a time to debate particular topics. At the end of the meetings, the bishops vote on specific proposals and put them to the pope, who then produces a document taking their views into account.

Until now, the only people who could vote were men. But under the new changes, five religious sisters will join five priests as voting representatives for religious orders. In addition, Francis has decided to appoint 70 non-bishop members of the synod and has asked that half of them be women. They too will have a vote.

The aim is also to include young people among these 70 non-bishop members, who will be proposed by regional blocs, with Francis making a final decision.

"It's an important change, it's not a revolution," said Cardinal Jean-Claude Hollerich, a top organizer of the synod.

The next meeting, scheduled for Oct. 4-29, is focused on the very topic of making the church more reflective of, and responsive to, the laity, a process known as "synodality" that Francis has championed for years.

The October meeting has been preceded by an unprecedented two-year canvassing of the lay Catholic faithful about their vision for the church and how it can better respond to the needs of Catholics today.

So far only one women is known to be a voting member of that October meeting, Sister Nathalie Becquart, a French nun who is undersecretary in the Vatican's Synod of Bishops office. When she was appointed to the position in 2021, she called Francis "brave" for having pushed the envelope on women's participation.

By the end of next month, seven regional blocs will propose 20 names apiece of non-bishop members to Francis, who will select 10 names apiece to bring the total to 70.

Cardinal Mario Grech, who is in charge of the synod, stressed that with the changes, some 21% of the gathered representatives at the October meeting will be non-bishops, with half of that group women.

Acknowledging the unease within the hierarchy of Francis' vision of inclusivity, he stressed that the synod itself would continue to have a majority of bishops calling the shots.

"Change is normal in life and history," Hollerich told reporters. "Sometimes there are revolutions in history, but revolutions have victims. We don't want to have victims," he said, chuckling.

Catholic Women's Ordination, a British-based group that says it's devoted to fighting misogyny in the church, welcomed the reform but asked for more.

"CWO would want transparency, and lay people elected from dioceses rather than chosen by the hierarchy, but it is a start!" said the CWO's Pat Brown.

Hollerich declined to say how the female members of the meeting would be called, given that members have long been known as "synodal fathers." Asked if they would be known as "synodal mothers," he responded that it would be up to the women to decide.

Francis has upheld the Catholic Church's ban on ordaining women as priests, but has done more than any pope in recent time to give women greater say in decision-making roles in the church.

He has appointed several women to high-ranking Vatican positions, though no women head any of the major Vatican offices or departments, known as dicasteries.