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  1. #101
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangLao View Post
    What did the founding fathers ​have in mind?
    I'm pretty sure if the founding fathers had a chance to see what's going on today they would probably want a do-over.

  2. #102
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Clever Girl.

    In economics, they call it the law of unintended consequences.
    An event ultimately produces an outcome, sometimes negative, that was not expected.

    That’s what is happening to Brandy Bottone of Plano, a mother who is 34 weeks into her pregnancy.

    On June 29 she was driving on U.S. Highway 75 South and headed to the Interstate 635 West interchange. But she had to slam on the brakes because ... well, I’ll let her tell the story:

    “I was driving to pick up my son. I knew I couldn’t be a minute late, so I took the HOV [high-occupancy vehicle] lane. As I exited the HOV, there was a checkpoint at the end of the exit. I slammed on my brakes, and I was pulled over by police.

    “An officer peeked in and asked, ‘Is there anybody else in the car?’


    “I said, ‘Well, yes.’

    “He asked, ‘Where?’


    “I pointed to my stomach and said, ‘My baby girl is right here. She is a person.’


    “He said, ‘Oh, no. It’s got to be two people outside of the body.’


    “One officer kind of brushed me off when I mentioned this is a living child, according to everything that’s going on with the overturning of Roe v. Wade. ‘So I don’t know why you’re not seeing that,’ I said.

    “He was like, ‘I don’t want to deal with this.’ He said, ‘Ma’am, it means two persons outside of the body.’

    “He waved me on to the next cop who gave me a citation and said, ‘If you fight it, it will most likely get dropped.’

    “But they still gave me a ticket. So my $215 ticket was written to cause inconvenience?


    “This has my blood boiling. How could this be fair? According to the new law, this is a life.


    “I know this may fall on deaf ears, but as a woman, this was shocking.”


    This was a Dallas County Sheriff Department’s operation. Representative Raul Reyna told me that it’s not technically a checkpoint because not every driver is stopped. The only vehicles that are stopped are ones where officers can visually see traveling with only one occupant. HOV rules require two passengers.


    This particular stop took place where the HOV lane ends at U.S. 75 South near Midpark Road, Reyna said.


    The sheriff’s department conducts HOV enforcement on U.S. 75 and also on Interstate 30 under contract with the Texas Department of Transportation.


    These checks occur randomly, Reyna said.


    The sheriff’s department declined to comment on Bottone’s pregnancy argument.


    She says she doesn’t believe the state should have it both ways. If
    a fetus is considered a life before birth, then why doesn’t that count as a second passenger?


    I asked Amy O’Donnell, spokeswoman for Texas Alliance for Life, an anti-abortion group, what she thought of this unusual situation.


    She replied, “While the penal code in Texas recognizes an unborn child as a person in our state, the Texas Transportation Code does not specify the same. And a child residing in a mother’s womb is not taking up an extra seat. And with only one occupant taking up a seat, the car did not meet the criteria needed to drive in that lane.”


    I also explained the story to Planned Parenthood of Greater Texas, but through a representative, the group declined to comment.


    Bottone’s court date is July 20.


    “I will be fighting it,” she says.

    Pregnant woman says her fetus should count as a passenger in HOV lanes. She got a ticket


  3. #103
    Thailand Expat panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    She says she doesn’t believe the state should have it both ways. If a fetus is considered a life before birth, then why doesn’t that count as a second passenger?
    They're fucked in the head

  4. #104
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    Deep Red Kansas

    Kansas voters protect abortion rights in first major post-Roe test

    Kansas voters were projected to have rejected a ballot measure Tuesday that would give the state legislature the authority to ban abortion, in what was seen as the first major referendum on the Supreme Court’s overturning of Roe v. Wade.

    The Associated Press called the results around 10:40 p.m. ET.

    The ballot measure is a proposed state constitutional amendment that says the right to an abortion is not protected by the state constitution, effectively reversing a state Supreme Court decision from 2019.

    But because the measure failed, that means that the state Supreme Court ruling still stands. Most abortions up until 22 weeks of pregnancy are allowed currently in the state.

    The vote rejecting the ballot measure was lauded by Democrats and abortion rights advocates in and out of Kansas.

    “Kansans stood up for fundamental rights today. We rejected divisive legislation that jeopardized our economic future & put women’s health care access at risk. Together, we’ll continue to make incredible strides to make KS the best state in the nation to live freely & do business,” Kansas Gov. Laura Kelly (D), who is up for reelection this November, tweeted.

    “Today is an enormous victory for people in Kansas who voted to protect their fundamental right to personal and bodily autonomy,” Nancy Northup, president and CEO of the Center for Reproductive Rights, said in a statement.

    The vote over the measure came more than a month after the nation’s top court overturned Roe v. Wade, eliminating the constitutional right to an abortion.

    A number of states quickly took actions to immediately pass bans to the medical procedure or curb restriction, and the ballot measure in Kansas was widely seen as a bellwether of how voters would react to the high court ruling.

    But the date of the ballot measure vote is notable given that Democratic voter turnout has previously been lower during midterm cycles compared to presidential elections, meaning the Aug. 2 election was expected to drive even lower turnout and would be less indicative of how all voters in the state feel on the issue.

    Still, it’s no secret that Kansas is a red state, with more than 851,000 registered Republican and more than 495,000 registered Democrats, according to monthly data from the Kansas secretary of state’s office as of July.

    Conservative pollster Kristen Soltis Anderson noted, however, that Kansas’ demographics are nuanced when it comes to the matter of abortion.

    “With the Kansas abortion amendment vote, just a reminder that there are a sizable number of voters who: -consider themselves pro-life or who would support prohibiting abortion after 15 weeks AND -also believe Roe should be upheld,” she tweeted.

    Kansas voters decide 'no' on the abortion amendment


    Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

  5. #105
    Viva Ukraine
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    ^As long as that method is used on someone you love, I’m OK with it.
    I think he is confusing the issue with the DIY labotomy he gave himself.

  6. #106
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    Some good news from 538

    Tonight marked the first vote on abortion in a post-Roe landscape. Kansans decided by a double-digit margin that the state constitution does, in fact, protect the right to abortion. With 98 percent of the expected vote reporting, 59 percent of voters voted “no,” on the amendment, or to clarify that the constitution does protect the right to abortion, while 41 percent voted “yes,” or to clarify that the constitution doesn’t protect the right to abortion. It’s notable that the yeses won by 18 points in a state that former President Donald Trump won by roughly 15 points in 2020.

    It’s possible, too, that what we saw tonight in Kansas signals that abortion might be an energizing issue for Democrats headed into the 2022 midterms — turnout was staggeringly high in some corners of the state, like Johnson County, the state’s most populous county. Though as we talked about on the live blog, there are still a lot of questions about whether this will translate to electoral success for Democrats in November.


  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by S Landreth View Post
    Some good news from 538

    Tonight marked the first vote on abortion in a post-Roe landscape. Kansans decided by a double-digit margin that the state constitution does, in fact, protect the right to abortion. With 98 percent of the expected vote reporting, 59 percent of voters voted “no,” on the amendment, or to clarify that the constitution does protect the right to abortion, while 41 percent voted “yes,” or to clarify that the constitution doesn’t protect the right to abortion. It’s notable that the yeses won by 18 points in a state that former President Donald Trump won by roughly 15 points in 2020.

    I do wonder how many people voted the wrong way round....

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by S Landreth View Post
    Kansans decided by a double-digit margin that the state constitution does, in fact, protect the right to abortion.
    A good litmus test for what could come in the midterms...

    Tuesday’s primary election far exceeded other contests in recent years, with around 900,000 Kansans voting, according to an Associated Press estimate. That is nearly twice as many as the 473,438 who turned out in the 2018 primary election.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...on-referendum/

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    A good litmus test for what could come in the midterms...
    Perhaps but if Republican candidates avoid bringing abortion issue into their campaign strategy and focus on economic fix promises, Dems will have an uphill battle.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Perhaps but if Republican candidates avoid bringing abortion issue into their campaign strategy and focus on economic fix promises
    That is going to be so hard for them to do. Abortion is a platform issue for the GOP, so it will be really hard for them to distance from that.

  11. #111
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    That is going to be so hard for them to do. Abortion is a platform issue for the GOP, so it will be really hard for them to distance from that.
    Sure will but if they make it an abortion issue race they will lose. Hope they do.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Hope they do.
    Me too.

  13. #113
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Perhaps but if Republican candidates avoid bringing abortion issue into their campaign strategy and focus on economic fix promises, Dems will have an uphill battle.
    If they fail to address it, their opponents will address their cowardly silence, so it's a no-win really.

  14. #114
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    Kansas Result Suggests 4 Out of 5 States Would Back Abortion Rights in Similar Vote

    There was every reason to expect a close election.

    Instead, Tuesday’s resounding victory for abortion rights supporters in Kansas offered some of the most concrete evidence yet that the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade has shifted the political landscape. The victory, by a 59-41 margin in a Republican stronghold, suggests Democrats will be the energized party on an issue where Republicans have usually had an enthusiasm advantage.

    The Kansas vote implies that around 65 percent of voters nationwide would reject a similar initiative to roll back abortion rights, including in more than 40 of the 50 states (a few states on each side are very close to 50-50). This is a rough estimate, based on how demographic characteristics predicted the results of recent abortion referendums. But it is an evidence-based way of arriving at a fairly obvious conclusion: If abortion rights wins 59 percent support in Kansas, it’s doing even better than that nationwide.

    It’s a tally that’s in line with recent national surveys that showed greater support for legal abortion after the court’s decision. And the high turnout, especially among Democrats, confirms that abortion is not just some wedge issue of importance to political activists. The stakes of abortion policy have become high enough that it can drive a high midterm-like turnout on its own.

    None of this proves that the issue will help Democrats in the midterm elections. And there are limits to what can be gleaned from the Kansas data. But the lopsided margin makes one thing clear: The political winds are now at the backs of abortion rights supporters.

    A surprisingly decisive outcome

    There was not much public polling in the run-up to the Kansas election, but the best available data suggested that voters would probably split fairly evenly on abortion.

    In a Times compilation of national polling published this spring, 48 percent of Kansas voters said they thought abortion should be mostly legal compared with 47 percent who thought it should be mostly illegal. Similarly, the Cooperative Election Study in 2020 found that the state’sregistered voters were evenly split on whether abortion should be legal.

    The results of similar recent referendums in Alabama, Louisiana, Tennessee and West Virginia also pointed toward a close race in Kansas — perhaps even one in which a “no” vote to preserve abortion rights would have the edge.

    As with the Kansas vote, a “yes” vote in each of those four states’ initiatives would have amended a state constitution to allow significant restrictions on abortion rights or funding for abortion.

    In contrast with Kansas, the initiatives passed in all four states, including a 24-point victory in Louisiana in 2020. But support for abortion rights outpaced support for Democratic presidential candidates in relatively white areas across all four states, especially in less religious areas outside the Deep South.

    It’s a pattern that suggests abortion rights would have much greater support than Joe Biden did as a candidate in a relatively white state like Kansas — perhaps even enough to make abortion rights favored to survive.

    It may seem surprising that abortion supporters would even have a chance in Kansas, given the state’s long tradition of voting for Republicans. But Kansas is more reliably Republican than it is conservative. The state has an above-average number of college graduates, a group that has swung toward Democrats in recent years.

    Kansas voted for Donald J. Trump by around 15 percentage points in 2020, enough to make it pretty safely Republican. Yet it’s not quite off the board for Democrats. Republicans have learned this the hard way; look no further than the 2018 Democratic victory in the governor’s race.

    Even so, a landslide victory for abortion rights in Kansas did not appear to be a probable outcome, whether based on the polls or the recent initiatives. The likeliest explanations for the surprise:

    Voters may be more supportive of abortion rights in the aftermath of the overturning of Roe (as national polls imply); they may be more cautious about eliminating abortion rights now that there are real policy consequences to these initiatives; abortion rights supporters may be more energized to go to the polls.

    Abortion rights supporters may not always find it so easy to advance their cause. They were defending the status quo in Kansas; elsewhere, they will be trying to overturn abortion bans.

    Whatever the explanation, if abortion supporters could fare as well as they did in Kansas, they would have a good chance to defend abortion rights almost anywhere in the country. The state may not be as conservative as Alabama, but it is much more conservative than the nation as a whole — and the result was not close. There are only seven states — in the Deep South and the Mountain West — where abortion rights supporters would be expected to fail in a hypothetically similar initiative.

    A shift in turnout

    If there’s any rule about partisan turnout in American politics, it’s that registered Republicans turn out at higher rates than registered Democrats.

    While the Kansas figures are still preliminary, it appears that registered Democrats were likelier to vote than registered Republicans.

    Overall, 276,000 voters participated in the Democratic primary, which was held on Tuesday as well, compared with 451,000 who voted in the Republican primary. The Democratic tally amounted to 56 percent of the number of registered Democrats in the state, while the number of Republican primary voters was 53 percent of the number of registered Republicans. (Unaffiliated voters are the second-largest group in Kansas.)

    In Johnson County, outside Kansas City, 67 percent of registered Democrats turned out, compared with 60 percent of registered Republicans.

    This is a rare feat for Democrats in a high-turnout election. In nearby Iowa, where historical turnout data is easily accessible, turnout among registered Democrats in a general election has never eclipsed turnout among registered Republicans in at least 40 years.

    The superior Democratic turnout helps explain why the result was less favorable for abortion opponents than expected. And it confirms that Democrats are now far more energized on the abortion issue, reversing a pattern from recent elections. It may even raise Democrats’ hopes that they could defy the longstanding tendency for the president’s party to have poor turnout in midterm elections.

    For Republicans, the turnout figures may offer a modest silver lining. They might reasonably hope that turnout will be more favorable in the midterms in November, when abortion won’t be the only issue on the ballot and Republicans will have many more reasons to vote — including control of Congress.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/04/u...n=The%20Upshot

  15. #115
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    Kansas to recount abortion vote ballots, so long as woman requesting it foots the bill

    Kansas said it will review all ballots after voters rejected an anti-abortion amendment earlier this month, so long as a woman who requested the recount foots the bill, the Associated Press reports.

    Driving the news: Melissa Leavitt asked Kansas election officials to recount the ballots after voters rejected an amendment that would have eliminated the right to an abortion from the state's constitution.


    • The recount won't change the outcome of the vote, AP reports. Kansas voters rejected the amendment by roughly 165,000 votes with about 922,000 ballots cast.


    State of Play: Leavitt wrote on a fundraising website she had “seen data ... that there were irregularities" on election night.


    • Kansas’ elections director Bryan Caskey said Saturday the state will honor the request to recount all the votes by hand. But Leavitt must cover the cost of the recount under state law.
    • Multiple attempts to contact Leavitt Saturday were unsuccessful.


    By the numbers: She currently has a goal of $275,000 on her online campaign. By Saturday afternoon, she had raised over $4,0o0.


    • The Kansas City Star reports that she posted a $200,000 bond for the recount with the Secretary of State’s Office.


    What she's saying: “I’m just going to say the next 48 hours is going to have a lot to do with God moving in people’s lives,” she said in a TikTok video. “And if it’s going to happen it’s going to happen and if it doesn’t it doesn’t. But I’m praying. I’m praying that we get it.”

    The big picture: The Kansas vote was the first on the issue since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, Axios' Oriana Gonzalez writes.

    • The state's constitution guarantees "equal and inalienable natural rights, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
    • The state Supreme Court ruled in 2019 the provision includes the right to abortion, according to the Center for Reproductive Rights.
    • The amendment would have added language stating that "[b]ecause Kansans value both women and children, the constitution of the state of Kansas does not require government funding of abortion and does not create or secure a right to abortion."



    https://www.givesendgo.com/G3NJF


    Pray Now

    just for fun.......


    Last edited by S Landreth; 14-08-2022 at 04:52 AM.

  16. #116
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    Kansas recount confirms landslide win for abortion rights

    Kansas reaffirmed its landslide vote to uphold abortion rights after election officials on Sunday finished a recount that never had any chance of changing the outcome but was sought by an election denier and anti-abortion activist advancing baseless allegations of fraud. The exercise instead delivered a second victory for opponents of an amendment that would have stripped abortion rights from the state constitution.

    A hand recount in nine counties – including Johnson and Sedgwick, the state’s two largest – cost roughly $120,000 and burned countless hours as election officials scrambled to conclude the arduous process before a Saturday deadline. Kansas voters rejected the amendment, called Value Them Both by supporters, 59% to 41% with a margin of about 165,000 votes.

    Leavitt ultimately raised more than $50,000 online for the abortion recount, but her main benefactor was Mark Gietzen, a longtime anti-abortion activist from Wichita. Gietzen also leads the Kansas Republican Assembly, a hard-right alternative to the traditional Republican Party. Leavitt originally requested a statewide recount, which Kansas Secretary of State Scott Schwab’s Office estimated would have cost about $230,000. Leavitt and Gietzen on Monday managed to put forward just under $120,000, with Gietzen using a credit card for the Kansas Republican Assembly and money from his own retirement account.

    The amount was enough to order recounts of nine counties: Johnson, Sedgwick, Shawnee, Douglas, Crawford, Harvey, Jefferson, Lyon and Thomas. The recount ultimately resulted in eight additional yes votes and 49 fewer no votes, spread across the nine counties.

    Melissa Leavitt



  17. #117
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Roe V Wade overturned-lk081922dapr-jpg

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