Real Democracy on the Way!

**Switch** · 06-06-2022, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

According to them, it is a better Democracy than yours. They have a good point, if you believe Government should work for the People.

To describe Russia and China as any kind of democracy flies in the face of anyones understanding of the word ‘democracy’.
Russia and Chinaboperate in a closed version of fascism and dictatorships. The people are like mushrooms: Fed on shot and kept in the dark. If it was anything like real democracy, why does the state control internal and external media. Both countries have an unsustainable fear of their people discovering the truth as it really is.

That is nothing like any kind of democracy anywhere else in the world. It is also the main reason that the Soviet Union collapsed. Hiding the truth from people is shameful. The corruption that exists in the west is at least available to the people.

**harrybarracuda** · 06-06-2022, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by bsnub

More complete crap from a website run by a complete nutcase. Do you actually work hard to find this utter shit?

Every.waking.minute.

**harrybarracuda** · 06-06-2022, 10:55 AM

Can you imagine a publication like this in Chinastan or Russia? Ian Hislop would be in a gulag or dead by now.

**david44** · 06-06-2022, 11:03 AM

Lads and lasses fill your glasses.

Sometimes turning the question on its head sometimes helps.

Without needing to look at the semantics of Greek pottery , electoral colleges, voting or candidate entitlements.

Like absence of oxygen food, absence of democratic freedoms are sometimes easier to identify

Let's take some example

How was the head of state chosen? (Discounts all hereditary despots Kings Kim I Sings , Putin's Sheiks Emire Ayatolalhs etc etc.

Can they be criticized freely ? think Uighurs and other political prisoners?

Or places where journos and abortion/gay rights environmental campaigners are jailed and or murdered which is most of the so called developing world

an they be challenged by citizens , press ,courts of law when in Office or after? Think of Trump backed insurrection, the African ?Arab dictators who sneak off with the nation's wealth to some bolt hole. Boukassa Marcos etc

Do citizens have right to renounce citizenship and obtain passport foreign dual citizen/leave? Think Nazanin Zagari Radcliff

Can citizens renounce state religion/s think Islam submission, blasphemy apostasy laws in Malaysia/Iran/Pakistan for insulting imaginary figures!!

Can citizens marry same sex parner (often possible in more democratic places)

Do all born in the country have equal status (think untouchables/women /gays etc) Hilltribes

Very very places tick all the boxes and not many most

We have basically the Republics of EU and even there Poland and Hungary have some very illiberal views re abortion, gay right and immigrants

Plus oddly mainly protestant Monarchies UK Benelux and Scandinavia Oz NZ , Canada Japan S Korea and much maligned Israel one of the few places Arab women have the vote.

Sure there are "elections" here, India, Uganda, RSA, Angola, Mercosur, Philippines etc but not perfect by a long way.

In the middle muddle we have "kind of elections in much of Asia where certain families /clans and parties hold sway.

Finally we have real undemocratic where endless imprisonment for insulting the leader/spouse, even ancestors, or worse , where troops/secret polic/paramilitaries massacre civilians with impunity , these usually go hand in hand with corrupt entrenched old money and include much of the 3rd word with a few that have recovered or recovering like Chile S Africa and Mexico which have a log way to go.

Simple Litmus test can a gay atheist non citizen insult the head of state freely as in Finland Iceland etc ?

Are the jails/cemetries full of journalists

Are many opponents exiled/tortured or more subtly denied work, documents , land ownership, education for the kids , access to health care etc?

Democracy is far from perfect until you look at the alternatives in practice.

I have visited most of the former E European communist places and worked in the Gulf China and similar dictatorships but as well paid privilgied expat with passport and enough cash to leave at will a big contrast to most of the "brown slaves in the Gulf'

**sabang** · 06-06-2022, 11:22 AM

China as any kind of democracy flies in the face of anyones understanding of the word ‘democracy’.

No, it doesn't- over 90% of 1.4bn Chinese people believe their Democracy is better than yours. And they are beating you, in just about every way. How dare you take it upon yourself to monopolise the right to define Democracy- a concept that originated with the ancient Greek & Roman civilisations.

Are are you just a racist, and don't believe these people of a different skin color, that are beating us in just about every way, have any right to their opinion?

Personally, I would define Russia- like the UK & USA- as a quasi democracy. But it remains the fact the government, including the President, is elected. China and Switzerland seem the best Real Democracies these days. Or the closest thing to.

**harrybarracuda** · 06-06-2022, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

No, it doesn't- over 90% of 1.4bn Chinese people believe their Democracy is better than yours..

You really are very gullible and very stupid.

China doesn't have democracy, it is a totalitarian state and anyone who criticises it is punished.

Chinkies are *told* by Mr. Shithole what to believe, a bit like you really.

**Switch** · 06-06-2022, 11:32 AM

^^complete and utter crap in your very first sentence. They don’t have any choice or alternative you dumb rock head.

**OhOh** · 06-06-2022, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by malmomike77

Should we start with candidates who are free to present themselves to the electorate without first being vetted by the ruling party?

Thank you for your post.

I suspect all political parties, not just the current ruling party, have their own individual "vetting/management system".

You appear to be happy with your one vote being "vetted/managed" by unelected, by the citizen, group's cabals.

Do you agree many countries citizens, have their own "vetting/management system" of their citizen's "one vote"?

Originally Posted by sabang

Real Democracy delivers outcomes for it's people-

Presuming the "outcomes" were as stated in the elected political parties' election manifesto. If not, one would suspect heads would roll.

Some elected governments may suggest their planned "delivery", had been destroyed by other countries, globally defined, illegal actions. Their accusations may be questioned/agreed/denied in various UN institutions, UNGA, UNSC, WTO, WHO ....

**pickel** · 06-06-2022, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

But it remains the fact the government, including the President, is elected.

That's a lot easier to do when you jail or murder your political opponents.

**david44** · 06-06-2022, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by pickel

That's a lot easier to do when you jail or murder your political opponents.

The nub, well said

**sabang** · 06-06-2022, 12:15 PM

They have a higher national participation rate in their national elections- for the Peoples Congress- than the US Presidential elections. And they are happier with their government than you are with yours. I can see why, too- you don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to work that out.

**harrybarracuda** · 06-06-2022, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

They have a higher national participation rate in their national elections- for the Peoples Congress- than the US Presidential elections. And they are happier with their government than you are with yours. I can see why, too- you don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to work that out.

Because Mr. Shithole said so, right? And you believe him.

**tomcat** · 06-06-2022, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

They have a higher national participation rate in their national elections- for the Peoples Congress- than the US Presidential elections.

...irrelevant...they also eat more noodles than most Canadians...so what?

Originally Posted by sabang

And they are happier with their government than you are with yours.

...and you know this how? Communist run polls of the "electorate"?

...your trolling skills, such as they are, have deteriorated to the point of self-mockery...

**bsnub** · 06-06-2022, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by tomcat

and you know this how? Communist run polls of the "electorate"?

It has been pointed out to him many times that the polls he references in both China and Russia are utter shit and a laughable joke, but he still persists in his utter tosh. Life is hard when you are a complete moron who pushes shit he knows is BS.

The question is why?

**sabang** · 06-06-2022, 04:07 PM

Communist run polls of the "electorate"?

No, Harvard University- among others. Many others.

Such as The world’s largest annual study on how people perceive democracy. Recently released-

Democracy Perception Index | Latana

You're all just talking childish nonsense. Pique? Jealousy? Prejudice? I wonder.

**bsnub** · 06-06-2022, 04:16 PM

Firstly, you have no reason to be laughing. You have made an utter fool of yourself in this thread again.

So are you going to claim that all the polls you reference regarding Russia were done by Harvard now too?

**sabang** · 06-06-2022, 04:23 PM

China, dear boy- as I pointed out. So are you calling the Worlds largest annual democracy survey, and a Long term study conducted by Harvard University wrong? Or commie shills? Or idiots?

**bsnub** · 06-06-2022, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

So are you calling the Worlds largest annual democracy survey, and a Long term study conducted by Harvard University wrong?

You are a simpleton, and you fail to grasp that there is no free press in China. The population is only able to access CCP propaganda. Of course, they think they are in a utopia they do not know otherwise.

**sabang** · 06-06-2022, 07:59 PM

Most unlike the USA then. Except if you are very rich.

**Switch** · 06-06-2022, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

No, Harvard University- among others. Many others.

Such as The world’s largest annual study on how people perceive democracy. Recently released-

Democracy Perception Index | Latana

You're all just talking childish nonsense. Pique? Jealousy? Prejudice? I wonder.

You know very well that polls and statistics depend on the questions asked or not asked, and also, exactly how those questions are phrased.

The summary may well lead the reader to confirmation bias, as that meets the readers own personal bias in what he or she is searching for.

How often are full results and the pertinent questions/responses stated in full, during a news article? Very rarely I would suggest.

You are clearly cherry picking such bias from the institutions you quote as sources. If you have nothing to hide, (and you clearly do), why not research the original document, and post the actual findings?

Too difficult for you, financial genius?

**sabang** · 06-06-2022, 08:22 PM

China tops the World in academic achievement. Are you saying they do not know their own mind?
Harvard and the Worlds largest democracy survey are well respected. Are you saying they are Cheats?

**harrybarracuda** · 06-06-2022, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by OhOh

Thank you for your post.

I suspect all political parties, not just the current ruling party, have their own individual "vetting/management system".

You appear to be happy with your one vote being "vetted/managed" by unelected, by the citizen, group's cabals.

Do you agree many countries citizens, have their own "vetting/management system" of their citizen's "one vote"?

Presuming the "outcomes" were as stated in the elected political parties' election manifesto. If not, one would suspect heads would roll.

Some elected governments may suggest their planned "delivery", had been destroyed by other countries, globally defined, illegal actions. Their accusations may be questioned/agreed/denied in various UN institutions, UNGA, UNSC, WTO, WHO ....

You don't really have a clue do you hoohoo?

**harrybarracuda** · 06-06-2022, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

No, Harvard University- among others. Many others.

Such as The world’s largest annual study on how people perceive democracy. Recently released-

Democracy Perception Index | Latana

You're all just talking childish nonsense. Pique? Jealousy? Prejudice? I wonder.

Again for the simpleton: No chinky or Russian is going to tell any pollster, foreign or domestic, that they don't like their leaders. Because they face be beaten, jailed or killed for it.

You keep trying to pretend this isn't the case, which makes you look like a fucking retard.

**harrybarracuda** · 06-06-2022, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

China tops the World in academic achievement.

That's because they breed like rats.

**sabang** · 06-06-2022, 08:33 PM

Really? Then why do they have such a low population growth rate?

What a prize Clown.

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