Page 20 of 28 FirstFirst ... 101213141516171819202122232425262728 LastLast
Results 476 to 500 of 679
  1. #476
    In Uranus
    bsnub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    30,429
    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Do you really think that those ships that China has built are on an even keel with the ships the US has built? If you do, you are a special kind of stupid.

  2. #477
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,260
    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    Remember this from 1994?

    1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and The United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.
    Item #3 and #6 on the Budapest memorandum

    Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by the signatory of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.

    Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments.

    The EU association agreement was pure economic coercion designed to subordinate Ukraine to the EU's interest. And it is blatantly obvious. The pre 2014 government rejected the EU asn agreement last minute. Then that government was overthrown by a coup. And THEN, the new government comes into power and RIPS UP the part of the Ukraine constitution that says Ukraine must remain a NON ALIGNED state. Which it was from 1991 until the newly installed govt ripped up the constition and thats why there's a war.

    Here : Ukraine votes to drop non-aligned status - BBC News

    Ukraine's parliament has voted to drop the country's non-aligned status and work towards Nato membership.

  3. #478
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,260
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonecollector View Post
    ^came back to make this very point. If backspins theory was correct, then, we would never have had any wars.

    Also, I wonder if you have heard of all the Chinese uni scholarships given to students in Siberia. Why do you think they are doing that? I know of a russian girl from Siberia who got a Chinese uni scholarship and now works in Taiwan. The balls already rolling on this one im afraid.

    So China shouldn't worry about the US building naval bases on Taiwan ?

  4. #479
    Elite Mumbler
    pickel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Isolation
    Posts
    7,692
    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    RIPS UP the part of the Ukraine constitution that says Ukraine must remain a NON ALIGNED state
    Got a link for that?

  5. #480
    Thailand Expat
    Buckaroo Banzai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Online
    03-08-2023 @ 01:50 PM
    Location
    My couch
    Posts
    4,889
    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    China should be more worried about Russian nukes in their area, rather than waste their time on an island that has the same population as a mainland city
    You are all arguing, perhaps correctly. that Russia can not even subdue the Ukraine, and on the other hand , that NATO needs to expand and protect Europe from a Russian invasion . You all say that with a straight face.
    Now China should be concerned about Russia and not the Americans in Taiwan?
    Russia is the third great power, but in no way a pier competitor to either the US or China. Not economically and not militarily.
    First we were made safe from WMDs in the middle east , now we will be made safe from the Russian menace.
    So, "rather than waste their time on an island that has the same population as a mainland city "
    Do you mean like the US wasted it's time with Cuba because it had a small population?
    The truth of the matter is that the US has used the Monroe doctrine to dominate it's sphere of influence in the Americas, and NATO in Europe
    And China will try and dominate Asia.
    So when I am abroad I am often asked the same question.
    "Why does America behave the way that it does"? and I reply. Because we can , you don't because you can't. When you could you did, and if you ever can you will again.
    So after what the Chinese refer to as the "100 years of humiliation" now they can, and they will . They consider (Rightly by historical standards) Taiwan a part of China that was separated from them during their " Hundred years of humiliation" and they will do anything in their considerable power to regain it.
    Their concern is not the "population of Taiwan" but it's historical and strategic value with in the context of the struggle between the US and China for dominance. .
    And an additional question.
    If Russian nuclear weapons should be a concern to the Chinese , shouldn't also be a concern to the Americans in Europe?
    The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up.

  6. #481
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,260
    Quote Originally Posted by pickel View Post
    Got a link for that?
    Declaration of State Sovereignty of Ukraine - Wikipedia

    Deklaratsiia pro derzhavnyi suvernitet Ukrainy) was adopted on July 16, 1990, by the elected parliament of Ukrainian SSR by a vote of 355 for and four against.[1][2]


    The document decreed that Ukrainian SSR laws took precedence over the laws of the USSR, and declared that the Ukrainian SSR would maintain its own army and its own national bank with the power to introduce its own currency.[2] The declaration also proclaimed that the republic has intent to become in a future "a permanently neutral state that does not participate in military blocs," and that it would not accept, nor produce, nor procure nuclear weapons.[2]


    This is theoretically what could be negotiated between China and the US over Taiwan too. Taiwan could be its own state just like Ukraine was, as long as it never joins a military bloc. It could be enshrined in its constitution. But none of these deals are worth the paper they are written on because the US will just rip them up as it pleases. Just as it did with Ukraine.

    Which is why China has no choice but to go to war.

  7. #482
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Online
    Today @ 05:46 AM
    Location
    Roiet
    Posts
    34,900
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai View Post
    The truth of the matter is that the US has used the Monroe doctrine to dominate it's sphere of influence in the Americas, and NATO in Europe
    And China will try and dominate Asia.
    Further, the US wants to be the only hegemony in the world and will not tolerate another.
    They have since WW2 prevented a European nation from doing so and no way Russia going to dominate Europe.
    Tiawan is but one of many US tactics to prevent China achieving hegemony over Asia. Others being close allies economically and militarily with the vast majority of Asian nations.

    So far so good. The US has the Europeans pretty much in line to keep Russia from dominating Europe.

    China domination of Asia is a much bigger challenge however. China not there yet in dominance of Asia but getting there pdq.
    "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect,"

  8. #483
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Online
    Today @ 05:46 AM
    Location
    Roiet
    Posts
    34,900
    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    But none of these deals are worth the paper they are written on because the US will just rip them up as it pleases
    Or the Chinese will as they did in Hong Kong.

    Frankly, I don't think China will militarily invade Taiwan. Way too much to lose for little gain. More likely China and Taiwan, as they have before, will come to some sort of arrangement economically beneficial to both.

  9. #484
    Thailand Expat
    Buckaroo Banzai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Online
    03-08-2023 @ 01:50 PM
    Location
    My couch
    Posts
    4,889
    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Further, the US wants to be the only hegemony in the world and will not tolerate another.
    They have since WW2 prevented a European nation from doing so and no way Russia going to dominate Europe.
    Tiawan is but one of many US tactics to prevent China achieving hegemony over Asia. Others being close allies economically and militarily with the vast majority of Asian nations.

    So far so good. The US has the Europeans pretty much in line to keep Russia from dominating Europe.

    China domination of Asia is a much bigger challenge however. China not there yet in dominance of Asia but getting there pdq.
    Well said.
    I heard some place that the Chinese have an interesting curse.
    "May you live in interesting times" and we certainly live in very , not in a good way. interesting times.
    Though with thousands dead,many don't even get the chance to even live in "interesting" times
    In the meantime the Ukrainians are fed into the meat grinder in the service of American hegemony. And the friends of Ukraine are celebrating the process, even by otherwise intelligent, well intending people in this forum .
    I am afraid, as always is the case, " The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
    I wonder how saint Zelensky's offshore accounts are doing?

  10. #485
    In Uranus
    bsnub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    30,429
    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Ukraine's parliament has voted to drop the country's non-aligned status and work towards Nato membership.
    Only vatnik morons like you think that this is why ruzzia invaded Ukraine. Putin had been planning to invade Ukraine for years. But you keep pushing your horseshit propaganda.

  11. #486
    Thailand Expat
    Takeovers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Last Online
    Today @ 02:44 AM
    Location
    Berlin Germany
    Posts
    7,056
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai View Post
    In the meantime the Ukrainians are fed into the meat grinder in the service of American hegemony.
    Ukrainians are willing to fight with shovels and stones if need be. They are not driven to fight.

  12. #487
    Elite Mumbler
    pickel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Isolation
    Posts
    7,692
    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    "a permanently neutral state that does not participate in military blocs,"
    Ukraine wasn't a member of of a military bloc in 2014 when Russia invaded Crimea, nor when Russia invaded the rest of the country last year. They should have kept their nukes.

  13. #488
    Thailand Expat
    Buckaroo Banzai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Online
    03-08-2023 @ 01:50 PM
    Location
    My couch
    Posts
    4,889
    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Yes, we do. Plus, NATO and the EU is the only thing stopping Turkey from simply swallowing up Greece and letting go of an oily fart afterwards
    I hope you realise that NATO's existence and NATO's expansion are two different things. But I can see how you might be confused since both words start "ex"and contain a bunch of other letters .

  14. #489
    Thailand Expat
    Buckaroo Banzai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Online
    03-08-2023 @ 01:50 PM
    Location
    My couch
    Posts
    4,889
    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    Ukrainians are willing to fight with shovels and stones if need be.
    Not only Ukrainians. Nationalism is a great motivator.
    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    They are not driven to fight.
    Yes indeed because Ukrainians are known to spontaneously break into fights without a reason
    Last edited by Buckaroo Banzai; 14-04-2023 at 01:00 PM.

  15. #490
    Thailand Expat
    Buckaroo Banzai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Online
    03-08-2023 @ 01:50 PM
    Location
    My couch
    Posts
    4,889
    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    No 'ex' anywhere aside from Greece being an ex-country if it were not for NATO and the EU.
    Good try but no cigar. I know you understood what I said. Because if you didn't this conversation is pointless.
    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    The difference being fighting for your country, fighting off invaders.
    . You are stating the obvious
    No one claims that they were not invaded or that they have the right to resist such invasion.
    The claim is what lead to the invasion.

  16. #491
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Online
    Today @ 05:46 AM
    Location
    Roiet
    Posts
    34,900
    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    As much as your US-centric thinking is interesting you may also like to consider the fact that Europe does not want Russian dominance or even threats irrespective of the US' wishes or not.
    You and some others here make it sound like European nations are puppets on a string for the 'big boys' . . . let me assure you that is hardly the case.
    Big boy singular, Hatters. Of course the Euros don't want to be dominated by Russia. Hence they have chosen to build strong military and economic ties to the US. This does in fact require concessions to the US which at times can be detremental to a specific Euro nation.

    Not a shred of US centric thinking on my part. Just an understanding of real politics and how alliances come to be.

  17. #492
    Thailand Expat
    Takeovers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Last Online
    Today @ 02:44 AM
    Location
    Berlin Germany
    Posts
    7,056
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai View Post
    Yes indeed because Ukrainians are known to spontaneously break into fights without a reason
    Being attacked by Russia is not a good reason? What universe do you live in?

    Not driven to fight obviously refers to external/NATO/US.

  18. #493
    Thailand Expat
    Buckaroo Banzai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Online
    03-08-2023 @ 01:50 PM
    Location
    My couch
    Posts
    4,889
    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    Being attacked by Russia is not a good reason? What universe do you live in?

    Not driven to fight obviously refers to external/NATO/US.
    I am afraid the irony went over your head. Nobody believes the the Ukrainians are known to fight for no reason.
    Of course when invaded ,any nationality including the Ukrainians will will fight tooth and nail.

  19. #494
    In Uranus
    bsnub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    30,429
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai View Post
    I am afraid the irony went over your head.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai View Post
    Of course when invaded ,any nationality including the Ukrainians will will fight tooth and nail.
    Seems the bleed over from Ukraine to Taiwan is clear. China will lose just the same as ruzzia is losing. They will never take Taiwan by force as they are a shit paper tiger like ruzzia.

  20. #495
    In Uranus
    bsnub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    30,429
    Amphibious warfare is the most complicated of all and requires advanced level of capabilities in combined arms operations. China like ruzzia can not do either until proven otherwise.

  21. #496
    Thailand Expat
    Buckaroo Banzai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Online
    03-08-2023 @ 01:50 PM
    Location
    My couch
    Posts
    4,889
    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Seems the bleed over from Ukraine to Taiwan is clear. China will lose just the same as ruzzia is losing. They will never take Taiwan by force as they are a shit paper tiger like ruzzia.
    You might be right,
    China has a demographics problem and a environmental pollution problem that I don't realy know how it will play out.
    But the US has it's own house of cards problem.
    Perhaps none of us will get laid but we will all get screwed. (That's really my fear)
    You are familiar with game theory and the Nash equilibrium.
    Last edited by Buckaroo Banzai; 15-04-2023 at 07:40 AM.

  22. #497
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,260
    Quote Originally Posted by pickel View Post
    Ukraine wasn't a member of of a military bloc in 2014 when Russia invaded Crimea, nor when Russia invaded the rest of the country last year. They should have kept their nukes.
    Each of these paragraphs are from the Nato Wikipedia page which is closely guarded and US biased.

    Ukraine applied to integrate with a NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) in 2008.

    Plans for NATO membership were shelved by Ukraine following the 2010 presidential election in which Viktor Yanukovych, who preferred to keep the country non-aligned, was elected President.

    On 7 February 2019, the Ukrainian parliament voted with a majority of 334 out of 385 to change the Ukrainian constitution to help Ukraine to join NATO -To exit neutrality and non alignment and join the US sphere of interest (me)



    At the June 2021 Brussels summit, NATO leaders reiterated the decision taken at the 2008 Bucharest summit that Ukraine would eventually become a NATO member with the MAP as an integral part of the process, and Ukraine's right to determine its future and foreign policy without outside interference. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg also stressed that Russia will not be able to veto Ukraine's accession to NATO "as we will not return to the era of spheres of interest




    So in 2008, the US announced its intention to remove Ukraine from non aligned neutral status and join its sphere of influence. And in doing so, they accuse Russia of trying to return Ukraine to the era of spheres of interest.

  23. #498
    Elite Mumbler
    pickel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Isolation
    Posts
    7,692
    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Each of these paragraphs are from the Nato Wikipedia page which is closely guarded and US biased.

    Ukraine applied to integrate with a NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) in 2008.

    Plans for NATO membership were shelved by Ukraine following the 2010 presidential election in which Viktor Yanukovych, who preferred to keep the country non-aligned, was elected President.

    On 7 February 2019, the Ukrainian parliament voted with a majority of 334 out of 385 to change the Ukrainian constitution to help Ukraine to join NATO -To exit neutrality and non alignment and join the US sphere of interest (me)



    At the June 2021 Brussels summit, NATO leaders reiterated the decision taken at the 2008 Bucharest summit that Ukraine would eventually become a NATO member with the MAP as an integral part of the process, and Ukraine's right to determine its future and foreign policy without outside interference. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg also stressed that Russia will not be able to veto Ukraine's accession to NATO "as we will not return to the era of spheres of interest




    So in 2008, the US announced its intention to remove Ukraine from non aligned neutral status and join its sphere of influence. And in doing so, they accuse Russia of trying to return Ukraine to the era of spheres of interest.
    Your quote was about Ukraines constitution though, which had nothing to do with the Budapest Memorandum. As a sovereign country, thay are allowed to alter their constitution and it's none of Russias fucking business.

  24. #499
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,260
    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Or the Chinese will as they did in Hong Kong.

    Frankly, I don't think China will militarily invade Taiwan. Way too much to lose for little gain. More likely China and Taiwan, as they have before, will come to some sort of arrangement economically beneficial to both.
    This has nothing to do with China and Taiwan. It has to do with the US and Taiwan.

    What is China supposed to do when the US starts building naval bases on the island ?

    US Upgrades Ukrainian Ports To Fit American Warships - Breaking Defense

    WASHINGTON: As tensions rise between Russia and Ukraine on the Black Sea, the US is upgrading several Ukrainian naval bases to give American and NATO warships the ability to dock just miles from Russia-controlled Crimea. A majority of the effort is taking place at the Ochakiv, which has seen a series of visits from US Navy construction teams over the past few years.

  25. #500
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,260
    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    Ukrainians are willing to fight with shovels and stones if need be. They are not driven to fight.
    Umm what.. It is a civil war. The Donbas militia were all born as Ukrainians on paper. The ppl being bombed in Donbas were born Ukrainian


Page 20 of 28 FirstFirst ... 101213141516171819202122232425262728 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •