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  1. #226
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    I showed you some Chinese positions on China
    I assume you mean that Chinese guy, now living in the West, who doesn't like the Chinese government right? Riveting stuff.
    But of course linking to the long term Harvard University study that showed 90% of the Chinese people (around 1,260,000,000 people) approve of their government is just Chinese propaganda right?

  2. #227
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    Oh dear, it's that awful Jerry Grey again. What sort of unspeakable torture must have been inflicted for this mild mannered ex-London bobby to speak in such a manner? The mind boggles. Maybe it's his Chinese wife, or his Chinese family- his inlaws are CPC members!, or just the fact he lives happily retired there, and has bicycled all around China.

    Isn't there an Extrajudicial Rendition Treaty for such Class Traitors?



    People tell me I live in a police state, but I don’t, I live in China
    By Jerry Grey





    Anywhere in the world, if you go online you accept "cookies." You can't do anything in government offices without being online first, having ID and accessing a system that sends you cookies. You can't walk along any street, go shopping, catch public transport in the developed world without being observed by cameras. Get money from an ATM, use a bank card or phone to pay in a shop, someone can track and locate you.

    Invalid and ill-informed interpretations accompany small kernels of truth in Western media. China, like all other countries, does have a credit rating system. If you are involved in legal proceedings, you may be "blacklisted," meaning you can't use planes, trains, you can't travel internationally or domestically. But, for the most part the system is there to help people improve their lives, if you want your child to go to a better school you might offer your services as a volunteer to the community, the registration of these good deeds helps you achieve a goal you might not otherwise have been able to achieve. The system won't prevent you getting married, going shopping, getting a passport or travelling.

    Every Chinese person has an ID card, most Europeans countries also have one, it's nothing strange. There's a household registration system which has some critics, but try to think of a better way to handle 1.4 billion people. So, for most Chinese, it's accepted as a minor inconvenience. The Anglosphere, British, Americans and Australians don't have such a card. They see this as an "invasion of privacy" yet every adult has National Insurance, Social Security or Tax File Numbers. To open a bank account, proof of address and ID is needed. Most adults possess driving licenses showing their photo and address, they also need registration to vote. If they default on a loan, they go on a credit blacklist and stay there years after settlement. In terms of surveillance and government control of official data, there isn't much difference between China and the West. Yet Western media constantly opines that Chinese people are oppressed while Westerners are not.

    Wherever we live in the developed world, social media controls our lives, we pay bills, communicate, entertain and educate through it. These transactions create a data history and data is stored. China has strong laws about what can be done with data and where must be stored. In the West, the laws are different, data is collected, stored offshore and sold.

    We read that China is oppressed by state control and the West is not but we're reading it on the same Western media which is gathering your data and selling it for profit. These media platforms aren't banned in China, they refuse to operate under China's laws, China restricts their methods of generating huge income streams from your data. Western media not only misinform you; they make money doing so!

    Ask any Chinese person about crime and they will tell you they feel safer: the number of stolen cars and gun deaths per 100,000 don't even merit a statistical line because they are so low. China is in the bottom 10 countries in the world for murders with 0.6 per 100,000 people, compared to the US 5.35.

    Ask Chinese people about the ubiquitous CCTV cameras, they'll tell you they like them. Walk around any Chinese city and notice the absence of criminal damage and graffiti, trains are spotless and completely safe, walking the streets at night does not bring a sense of foreboding but a sense of safety and security. Chinese people feel safe, because they are safer.

    What's commonly accepted in China would be totally unacceptable to civil libertarians who fear a police state. These fears are well placed in regions where police budgets are higher than most countries' military budgets. If a country spends $250 billion on police and prisons, there is every reason to fear them.

    Western civil libertarians are afraid the "state" will capture their data, control their minds, subjugate them into classes, dominate the poor and weak while promoting the wealthy and strong. The perception of a "police state" being formed through a track and trace system is not ludicrous, it's very real but it's only a fear when the "police state" is something to be fearful of.

    People are led to believe they have a say in their leadership, but offered limited choices, they are told they have freedom but are criticized, persecuted, punished or ostracized for expressing or acting on their freedoms. However, to encourage their electorate to believe they have these freedoms, politicians incentivize and use a compliant media to point toward China and manufacture stories to instill and amplify this fear.

    They describe China as a "police state," but it's a very wrong description. Completely contrary to what Westerners believe and what's portrayed by Western media, the police in China are very good. Western police, however, seem to be closer to paramilitary than they are to public servants, heavily armed, full-body armor, shooting and killings are common, but China doesn't have any such issues. China does have a lot of police, as many factories, schools and universities have officers on the gates, and this is a widely accepted cultural norm, they are appreciated because they are there to help.

    A "large" police presence does not mean a "heavy" police presence. Chinese police are courteous and polite, seldom using their authority. When they do, it's because it's warranted by the action of the person(s) they are dealing with. An interesting perspective is found when we learn and understand Chinese cultural values not only accept this police presence, but welcome it. A "police state" which really is a threat to Western society is not so in China. China's system protects people and their data from corporate pirates and criminal activities. Not only are Chinese people not afraid of their police state, they prefer it to living in a country riddled with so-called "freedoms."

    The author is a British Australian freelance writer who has studied cross cultural change management in China and has lived in the country, traveling extensively for 17 years.

    People tell me I live in a police state, but I don’t, I live in China - Global Times


    Communist running Dog!!!




    Chinese police are courteous and polite
    Like the waiters then.
    Last edited by sabang; 26-09-2021 at 07:01 AM.

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    You can't walk along any street, go shopping, catch public transport in the developed world without being observed by cameras.
    In the developed world, how many of those cameras are linked to facial recognition software to determine a "social credit" score?

  4. #229
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    Ah....the good ol' Global Times

  5. #230
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    Well they seem to like living there, considerably more than you like where you live. And there are a fair few of them. And they are not dumb. Or voiceless.

  6. #231
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Ask Chinese people about the ubiquitous CCTV cameras, they'll tell you they like them.
    Of course they do.


  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post


    Nah, I couldn't give a shit - have ordinary people give their opinion without the threat of the police knocking on the door afterwards -brilliant. The shit you post? Yea . . . nah.
    In a nutshell, this.

  8. #233
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    In a nutshell, Jerry Grey (an ex-Policeman) thinks very differently. He's only lived in China 17 years, so obviously hal we must bow to your intimate familiarity with all things China. How many times you been there again?

  9. #234
    Thailand Expat helge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    obviously hal we must bow to your intimate familiarity with all things China. How many times you been there again?


    I have once had the famous Duck a la Peking. Doesn't make me an expert on all things China though.

    The dish they served me mostly contained beeks and feet. (must have been out of feathers).

    This behaviour towards a guest in their home, taught me enough about their nature.

    I hate them


    Reckon I should start another 'China thread' about that ?

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    100s of thousands apply to get the hell out of the place each year . .
    Where do they go ?

    We don't need them

  11. #236
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    Well PH, tell Harvard University what dolts they are too. They await your scathing criticism with bated breath.

    ^^ Have Peking duck in HK or Guangzhou mate, not Beijing. The northerners cook it too damn greasy.
    Last edited by sabang; 26-09-2021 at 04:21 PM.

  12. #237
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    In a nutshell, Jerry Grey (an ex-Policeman)......
    .... is one of several, probably paid, chinky propagandists trying to flood Twatter, Tik Tok and other fora with pro-chinky nonsense, and there is an alarming number of fake social media accounts that have been created by the CCP to help create the illusion that Mr. Shithole's farts smell of flowers and there are no human rights abuses against the Uighur community.

    Yes, we know.

  13. #238
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    It isn't my study PH, it was a long term study conducted by Harvard University. Are you saying it is falsified, or what?

  14. #239
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Do we need to start a new thread for A View from Taiwan? I’ve hit the mother lode on the opinion column of the Taipei News.


    If the Koreas are UN members, why not Taiwan?

    TAIPEI (Taiwan News) — An interesting take on the “Taiwan question” was posed by a Financial Times reader on Friday (Sept. 23): If the two Koreas can both be members of the United Nations, then why can’t both Taiwan and China?


    It’s a fair question, considering Taiwan already functions as one of the world’s most successful nations of recent years. This is no mean feat considering its size, history, and the fact that it is threatened daily by China.


    Taiwan is an economic tiger, just like South Korea, Singapore, and what used to be Hong Kong — now sadly swallowed up by China and deprived of its essential freedoms. Taiwan has been a center for the production of plastic goods and electronic devices and more recently has become the world’s top chipmaker.


    In terms of democracy, it is flourishing and regularly complimented on its openness, rule of law, freedom of the press, and religious tolerance.


    It is a leader in healthcare, as shown by its handling of COVID-19 and its status as a popular medical care destination. Its national healthcare system is universally praised and also valued by its citizens.


    Technically speaking, Taiwan is a state deserving of U.N. membership since it is a "politically organized body of people usually occupying a definite territory" and is "sovereign," or "exercises supreme authority within a limited sphere," according to the Merriam-Webster definition of a state.


    Article 4 of the U.N. Charter states: "Membership in the United Nations is open to all other peace-loving states which accept the obligations contained in the present Charter and, in the judgment of the Organization, are able and willing to carry out these obligations."


    Anyone who has visited Taiwan will have good things to say about its people, attractions, and food. It also does well in sports, arts, and culture.


    It is also, as the letter writer to the Financial Times points out, applying to join the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership. The CPTPP is a free trade agreement between Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, Peru, New Zealand, Singapore, and Vietnam.


    Interestingly, it was formed, in part, to meet the growing threat of China, but now Beijing also wants to become a member. It does so to prevent Taiwan from joining, thereby freezing it out from international forums and organizations and making it an easy target to invade and swallow.


    After all, if Taiwan has no friends, then no one will mind when China does attack. The opposite is also true.


    “It is shocking that although Taiwan faces an existential threat from China, it still has no representation in the U.N.,” Randhir Singh Bains wrote in his letter to the Financial Times. If Taiwan can join the World Trade Organization and apply for CPTPP membership, “why should it be deprived of its rightful place among the comity of nations?”


    This brings Singh to his main point: “Currently, the U.N. does not accept Taiwan as a member because it perceives Taiwan, not as a sovereign state but as a breakaway province of China. But the U.N. has a long history of figuring out ways to accommodate membership for states with complicated or dubious sovereignty issues.”


    As examples, Singh mentions South Korea and the rogue state that is North Korea. He also mentions the case of West Germany and former East Germany, which are now united but previously were both members of the U.N.


    “If the two Koreas can become members, why should Taiwan be deprived of the same right?” Singh asks.


    Surely, he has a point and Taiwan is a deserving case for inclusion to the U.N., a body whose charter makes clear that it was formed to protect peace and promote religious tolerance and the "equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small..."


    If not, why was the U.N. formed in the first place?

    If the Koreas are UN members, why not Taiwan? | Taiwan News | 2021-09-25 1400

  15. #240
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Taiwan’s online freedom mustn’t become an Achilles heel

    KAOHSIUNG (Taiwan News) — On the face of it, the 2021 Freedom on the Net Report made for great reading for the Taiwan government.


    Its commitments to basic rights and freedoms were emphasized, as Freedom House, the independent organization which monitors online rights around the world ranked Taiwan fifth in the entire world for online freedom. It also notably talks about Taiwan as a country in the report, which is also welcome.


    Freedom House heaped praise on the Taiwan authorities for the way they have responded to hostile and aggressive online attacks from China with “innovative regulations and democratic oversight of digital technology.”


    Meanwhile, it goes without saying that the Chinese Communist Party's (CCP) oppressive Great Firewall censorship regime and its pervasive online surveillance machinery saw it placed bottom of the pile for the seventh successive year. Other authoritarian countries like Myanmar, Belarus, and Uganda also came in for criticism, while even the U.S. slipped in the rankings, with the proliferation of fake news.


    While the report was overwhelmingly positive, there were some areas that Freedom House identified where Taiwan could improve its performance.


    The report noted that Taiwan's internet users have to contend with disinformation campaigns and debilitating cyberattacks, largely originating from China, on a regular basis. This assertion is absolutely right, but it also creates something of a dichotomy for the authorities.


    If it wants to reign in the disinformation and fake news that is everywhere online in China, how can it do that without eroding people’s rights to freedom of speech online? The complexity of this challenge is illustrated by the other criticism of Taiwan, which is that some individuals have faced criminal prosecutions and fines for their online speech.


    It is a massive challenge. How does Taiwan protect the online freedoms of its citizens, without those freedoms becoming an Achilles heel that the CCP regime can exploit to spread its poison and propaganda?


    The instinctive response to this question would naturally be to look at what other democratic countries around the world are doing. But, as the Freedom on the Net report shows, what we see happening in places like the U.S. and the U.K. does not get the balance right.


    One of the main reasons why Taiwan ranks above all the major Western democracies bar Canada is because they have chosen to attempt to counter perceived security threats by undermining online rights and freedoms. Taiwan, so far, has chosen not to go down this road, but as the threats from the CCP continue to escalate, there may well come a time when its hand is forced.


    If Taiwan is serious about maintaining its place in the Freedom on the Net rankings and, more importantly, protecting the online rights of its citizens, it is vital that it strikes the right balance.


    In a lot of Western countries, the choice has been made to log people’s online activity, censor a broad range of content, or permit surveillance by a wide range of public bodies with few or no safeguards in place.


    Taiwan must not go down this road.


    Right balance


    The advantage that Taiwan has over countries like the U.S. and the U.K. is that it knows the vast majority of its fake news, disinformation, and cyber-attacks come from one place, namely China.


    Increased government support and information programs for businesses and individuals to protect themselves from cyber-attacks is an obvious step to take. This could take the form of grants or loans to audit and improve security or official recommendations to use reliable anti-virus programs, firewalls, and VPNs.


    The Taiwan government has already done a lot to try and address the plethora of fake news and disinformation, but there is still more to be done. There is scope to work much closer with social media platforms like LINE and Facebook to tackle the issue at source and the government shouldn’t be afraid to threaten repercussions if these platforms don’t take the matter seriously.


    A key indicator of a lot of fake news circulating in Taiwan is the language, simplified Chinese. Getting the message across that information in simplified Chinese is not reliable and should be disregarded or even deleted would help a great deal.


    Doubtless, there is much more that can and should be done too. Perhaps Taiwan News readers have some innovative suggestions the Taiwan authorities could take on board?


    The key is finding ways to protect the hard-won freedoms that define modern Taiwan and make us stand apart from the authoritarianism of the CCP. Equally important is ensuring that a dogged adherence to these freedoms at the expense of all else, doesn’t end up being a factor in losing them altogether.

    Taiwan’s online freedom mustn’t become an Achilles heel | Taiwan News | 2021-09-24 10:00:00

  16. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    “If the two Koreas can become members, why should Taiwan be deprived of the same right?” Singh asks.


    Surely, he has a point and Taiwan is a deserving case for inclusion to the U.N., a body whose charter makes clear that it was formed to protect peace and promote religious tolerance and the "equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small..."


    If not, why was the U.N. formed in the first place?
    Yes why not ?

    But it's not up to you and me

    I think that it is to be expected, that mainland China will exit if Taiwan join.


    That is not in the interest of "the world".

  17. #242
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    ^^^ Just to point out, this Randhir Singh Bains is a serial Newspaper letter writer from Essex Hill, London. GIYF and all that. I doubt his views carry much diplomatic clout.

  18. #243
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Bains wrote a letter to Financial Times. My post is the Taiwan News Editorial about Bains letter.

    (Are we looking for writers with diplomatic clout now? )

  19. #244
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    Like Jerry Grey? Na guess not- any opinion is fine, and you've sneaked in under the technicality that Taiwan is diplomatically considered part of China.

  20. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Like Jerry Grey? Na guess not- any opinion is fine, and you've sneaked in under the technicality that Taiwan is diplomatically considered part of China.
    You simply don't understand history.

    China is part of Taiwan.

  21. #246
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    I reckon Formosa is a part of the Dutch Empire.
    Or the Japanese Empire.
    or the Chinese Empire.

  22. #247
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    Don't know a thing about this man, but he has a story to tell

  23. #248
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    Evergrande is a typical example of the China CCP forrm of economics, IE'- Milk all you can out of western suckers and then lose the lot.

  24. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by havnfun View Post
    Evergrande is a typical example of the China CCP forrm of economics, IE'- Milk all you can out of western suckers and then lose the lot.
    No. It isn't.

    It has, however, milked a ton of money out of chinky first-time buyers.

  25. #250
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    China questions US-style democracy 'owned by 1%, governed by 1%, enjoyed by 1%,'

    The US is "owned by one percent [of its people], governed by the one percent and enjoyed by the one percent - is this democracy? The US turns a blind eye to the millions of Floyds who can't breathe, to the millions of innocent people killed by guns - is this democracy? The US suppresses others' right to normal development and denies their people a better life - is this democracy?" asked the Chinese Foreign Ministry on Monday.

    The Chinese authority raised questions over US-style democracy, echoing Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, who on Sunday criticized the US idea of holding the "democracy summit" as another example of its Cold War mentality.

    "I fully agree with [Russian] Foreign Minister Lavrov's view that the so-called 'democracy summit' held by the US is, in essence, drawing ideological lines and engaging in bloc politics. This will only cause division and confrontation, which goes against the trend of the times and will not gain public support," Hua Chunying, spokesperson of the ministry said at a press conference.

    In August, US President Joe Biden floated the idea of convening the "Leaders' Summit for Democracy" which is scheduled for December.

    As we have said many times, the key to recognizing democracy is whether it meets the expectations, needs and aspirations of the people and whether it delivers genuine benefits to the people, said Hua, noting that democracy is judged by results, not slogans.

    "The US is owned by one percent [of its people], governed by the one percent and enjoyed by the one percent - is this democracy?" questioned Hua, pointing out how divided and polarized US politics has become.

    "The approval rating of the US government is less than half - is this democracy? Deceiving the people, abusing their trust, and making empty promises - is this democracy? Fabricating lies and rumors to wage war abroad, causing ordinary people to lose their lives and fall into poverty, while feathering military enterprises' and big capitalists' nests - is this democracy? Turning a blind eye to millions of Floyds who can't breathe, to the millions of innocent people killed by gun violence - is this democracy? Denying other countries' right to normal development and their people a better life while using all means to only allow itself to enjoy good conditions - is this democracy?" asked Hua.

    Hua urged the US to make a correct and objective assessment of itself, refrain from pretending to be the spokesperson of democracy, not adopt "double standards" or even "multiple standards" on democracy, and not use democracy as a tool to suppress and contain other countries.

    China hopes the US will abandon its Cold War and small bloc mentality, reject the wrong zero-sum game approach, work with others to practice the international relations of mutual respect, fairness, justice and win-win cooperation, and promote the common values of peace, development, fairness, justice, democracy and freedom for all mankind.

    China questions US-style democracy 'owned by 1%, governed by 1%, enjoyed by 1%,' echoes Russian FM's criticism - Global Times



    Says it like it is.

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