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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    That's certainly what the rest of us are doing.
    I just spit Red Bull all over my monitor.


  2. #127
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    Well, after Iraq, Syria, ghan, Libya, and the fact that China is now your countries major Creditor, and about to become the Worlds largest economy- I reckon it's the Chinese who are having the last laugh. Oh, but of course that's just the View from China.

  3. #128
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    I do remember the kerfluffle back in the ‘80s when Japan’s economy was set to overtake the USA’s economy. We all know what happened with that. Time will tell if China can keep up the growth through the 2020s.

  4. #129
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    I remember when the real estate value of Tokyo alone was reckoned to be more than the whole USA. If there is one Constant in this world, it is change.

  5. #130
    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
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    I have to admit that I like how the Chinese communist party introduced the biological pest control.
    I think they called it one-child policy.

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    I do remember the kerfluffle back in the ‘80s when Japan’s economy was set to overtake the USA’s economy. We all know what happened with that. Time will tell if China can keep up the growth through the 2020s.
    Why to worry about "kerfluffle back in the ‘80s", better to worry what's happening now. Although the figures from Wall Street are very promising (something like from Las Vegas), not sure how it will please the ordinary Joe:

    Actual figures of shipping show something else for the Global Trade:

    Carrier : Cosco

    POL / POD : Oakland, CA to Shanghai, China
    Ocean freight : Usd981/20’ and Usd1,037/40’ Container

    POL / POD : Oakland, CA to Busan, South Korea
    Ocean freight : Usd952/20’ and Usd1087/40’ Container

    POL / POD : Oakland, CA to Bangkok, Thailand
    Ocean freight : Usd1,344/20’ and Usd1577/40’ Container

    Remarks : 1. Rates are valid till 30/Sep/2021.
    2. Rates are subject to all local charges at Loading Port and Destination.
    3. Rates are subject to change without prior notice.
    That's ca. 5% of the price sailing the other way round. (Nothing to ship to Asia?)

  7. #132
    Thailand Expat Saint Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    I remember when the real estate value of Tokyo alone was reckoned to be more than the whole USA. If there is one Constant in this world, it is change.
    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Well, after Iraq, Syria, ghan, Libya, and the fact that China is now your countries major Creditor, and about to become the Worlds largest economy- I reckon it's the Chinese who are having the last laugh. Oh, but of course that's just the View from China.

    What’s with all the random capitalization?

  8. #133
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    To piss Off TefLers willy. Hasn't China been Doing just that Quite recently?

  9. #134
    Thailand Expat Saint Willy's Avatar
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    Droll.

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Willy View Post
    What’s with all the random capitalization?

    And where’s the Chinese Whoopi Goldberg?

  11. #136
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    September 11 attacks helped China’s rise? A serious misjudgment.

    By Global Times Published: Sep 11, 2021 12:22 AM

    "Saturday marks the 20th anniversary of the 9/11 terror attacks. Many around the world are talking about this day, but deep reflection is rare within the US. Some US elites mentioned China, but they mostly emphasized that the US' war on terror launched after 9/11 presented an opportunity for China's rapid rise. Such rhetoric reflects their deep-rooted thinking: the US needs to be dedicated to containing China's rise and it has the capability to achieve that.

    It seems that the year 2001 was the first year of the post-9/11 era and this year is the 20th year in this era. Such political chronology is a result of serious American centrism and shows the US "mission" to contain China's rise. Talking about 9/11 in this way shows that US elites have not walked out of their illusion. They always believe the US should and is able to shape the world and that it just made a detour over the past 20 years.

    The 9/11 attacks are indeed a major event. It had profoundly affected the US' foreign policy for a period of time. But viewing it as a certain turning point of the global situation is an exaggeration of its significance. It is also farfetched to link it with China's rise.

    After 9/11, the US did have more interest in improving ties with China in order to focus its attention on the war on terror during this time, which was beneficial for China's overall international environment. But it must be made clear that China's rise should be attributed to multiple factors and its fundamental driving force came from within the country - China's socialist market economy unleashed the Chinese people's pursuit for better lives and China realized rapid development by meeting people's demand to the greatest extent.

    China's deep integration into the global trading system was not a handout from the US and the West. It was the result of mutually beneficial cooperation between China and WTO members and the huge sacrifices of diligent and intelligent Chinese people, who also received benefits they deserve.

    The New China initiated its modernization process and the reform and opening-up policies accelerated the country's industrialization. The first 20 years of the 21st century were meant to be the two decades for China to catch up with the world. Development and living a good life are the sacred rights of the Chinese people. There is supposed to be no barrier in the world to China's comprehensive progress. Containing China's development is an evil delusion. Imagining this as something that should have taken place but was missed because of 9/11 is a misjudgment of the times and laws of the world.

    During the Obama era, the US tried the so-called Asia-Pacific rebalance strategy and attempted to isolate China through negotiations for the Trans-Pacific Partnerships. But former US President Donald Trump didn't think it was a good deal, so he abandoned it. Likewise, the US' current China containment strategy is not going smoothly. The failure of its trade war against China is as clear as its failure in its war in Afghanistan. The obstacles it has met in constructing an anti-China alliance are more than what it has gained on the surface.

    Evidently, the US' approach toward the former Soviet Union during the Cold War does not work on China. Some US politicians are filled with hatred when they talk about China, but why couldn't they stop the scale of the China-US trade from hitting a record high after a temporary slip? Why couldn't they stop US allies from continuing to treat China as one of their most important economic partners?

    Though it is a major event, 9/11 cannot change the logic of globalization and cannot affect China's national system and the Chinese people's dream and diligence. The end of the Afghan war may spare the US a little more resources against China, but this won't change the trend of the era, either. The trend is shaped by technological development and the political progress of mankind, and it will not be shifted at the will of a few US political elites."


    September 11 attacks helped China’s rise? A serious misjudgment: Global Times editorial - Global Times
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  12. #137
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Some US elites mentioned China, but they mostly emphasized that the US' war on terror launched after 9/11 presented an opportunity for China's rapid rise. Such rhetoric reflects their deep-rooted thinking: the US needs to be dedicated to containing China's rise and it has the capability to achieve that.
    So the chinkies invent some story about "US elites" and then proceed to "counter" it.

    Seems our resident chinky sycophants are in full straw man mode at the moment.

  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    So the chinkies invent some story about "US elites" and then proceed to "counter" it.

    Seems our resident chinky sycophants are in full straw man mode at the moment.
    Pure invention. The global times has to make shit up, because they, and China, are not quite as important as they like to think.

  14. #139
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    Two readouts of a conversation by two world leaders from their respective outlets.

    Somewhat different in length and detail:

    Readout of President Joseph R. Biden Jr. Call with President Xi Jinping of the People’s Republic of China

    September 09, 2021 • Statements and Releases

    "President Joseph R. Biden, Jr. spoke today with President Xi Jinping of the People’s Republic of China (PRC). The two leaders had a broad, strategic discussion in which they discussed areas where our interests converge, and areas where our interests, values, and perspectives diverge.

    They agreed to engage on both sets of issues openly and straightforwardly. This discussion, as President Biden made clear, was part of the United States’ ongoing effort to responsibly manage the competition between the United States and the PRC.

    President Biden underscored the United States’ enduring interest in peace, stability, and prosperity in the Indo-Pacific and the world and the two leaders discussed the responsibility of both nations to ensure competition does not veer into conflict."


    Access Denied

    Chinese President Xi Jinping Speaks with U.S. President Joseph Biden on the Phone


    2021/09/10

    "On the morning of 10 September 2021, President Xi Jinping took a phone call from U.S. President Joseph R. Biden, Jr. The two leaders had candid, in-depth and extensive strategic communication and exchanges on China-U.S. relations and relevant issues of mutual interest.

    Xi Jinping first expressed sympathy to Biden and the American people over the human and economic toll in multiple places in the United States caused by Hurricane Ida. Biden appreciated the expression of sympathy.

    Xi Jinping pointed out that for some time, due to the U.S. policy on China, the China-U.S. relationship has run into serious difficulty. This serves neither the fundamental interests of the people of the two countries, nor the common interests of countries around the world.

    China and the United States are respectively the biggest developing country and the biggest developed country. Whether they can handle their relationship well bears on the future of the world. It is a question of the century to which the two countries must provide a good answer.

    When China and the United States cooperate, the two countries and the world will benefit; when China and the United States are in confrontation, the two countries and the world will suffer. Getting the relationship right is not optional, but something we must do and must do well.

    Xi Jinping highlighted an ancient Chinese poem, "Mountains and rivers may block the way, yet another village will appear amidst willow trees and blooming flowers."

    Since the ice was broken in bilateral relations in 1971, China and the United States have cooperated with each other and delivered tangible benefits to countries around the world. With the international community facing many common challenges, China and the United States need to show broad vision and shoulder great responsibilities.

    The two countries should look ahead and press forward, demonstrate strategic courage and political resolve, and bring China-U.S. relations back to the right track of stable development as soon as possible for the good of the people in both countries and around the world.

    Xi Jinping elaborated on China's position on climate change and other issues. He stressed that China continues to prioritize ecological conservation and pursues a green and low-carbon path to development, and has taken the initiative to actively shoulder international responsibilities befitting China's national conditions.

    On the basis of respecting each other's core concerns and properly managing differences, the relevant departments of the two countries may continue their engagement and dialogue to advance coordination and cooperation on climate change, COVID-19 response and economic recovery as well as on major international and regional issues. In the meantime, the two sides may tap more potential of cooperation to inject more positive dynamics into the relationship.

    Biden noted that the world is changing fast. The U.S.-China relationship is the most consequential relationship in the world, and the future of the bulk of the world will depend on how the United States and China get on with each other.

    The two countries have no interest in letting competition veer into conflict. The U.S. side has no intention to change the one-China policy.

    It is prepared to have more candid exchanges and constructive discussions with China to identify key and priority areas where cooperation is possible, avoid miscommunication, miscalculation and unintended conflict, and get U.S.-China relations back on track. The U.S. side looks forward to more discussions and cooperation with China to reach more common positions on climate change and other important issues.

    Both presidents agreed that in-depth communication between them on China-U.S. relations and major international issues is very important for steering the bilateral ties in the right direction. They agreed to maintain frequent contact by multiple means and instruct officials at the working level to intensify the work, conduct extensive dialogue and create conditions for the further development of China-U.S. relations."

    Chinese President Xi Jinping Speaks with U.S. President Joseph Biden on the Phone


    HasTaiwan has been left to swing in the wind?

    A more speculative opinion from SCMP:

    Taiwan rift remains despite Xi-Biden call for closer contact


    • Beijing and Washington offer different takes on discussion about the island on Friday


    • A report that Washington may agree to use ‘Taiwan’ in the name of Taipei’s representative office injected further uncertainty


    Taiwan rift remains despite Xi-Biden call for closer contact | South China Morning Post
    Last edited by OhOh; 12-09-2021 at 09:04 PM.

  15. #140
    Thailand Expat lom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    HasTaiwan has been left to swing in the wind?
    Did you expect any of them to bring up a hot potato for discussion?

  16. #141
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    Did you expect any of them to bring up a hot potato for discussion?
    If not why bother?

    According to both readouts both agreed "in-depth communication" and "This discussion, ...., was part of the United States’ ongoing effort to responsibly manage".

    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    in-depth communication between them on China-U.S. relations and major international issues is very important for steering ....
    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    This discussion, as President Biden made clear, was part of the United States’ ongoing effort to responsibly manage the competition between the United States and the PRC.

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    According to both readouts both agreed "in-depth communication"
    Yea but not today. Today they are just checking each others blood pressure.

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    It seems that the year 2001 was the first year of the post-9/11 era and this year is the 20th year in this era
    Quite insightful stuff

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    Yea but not today. Today they are just checking each others blood pressure.
    Yes, but oh oh wants everything concluded to China’s satisfaction by the end of that first phone call.

    Thats the way China works. (Do it my way, now, or the discussion is over). That is not diplomacy in the real world.

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Willy View Post
    Quite insightful stuff
    Thank you for reading and commenting on the first sentence.

    Did you read anymore, have any further gems to share with us?

  21. #146
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    Did you expect any of them to bring up a hot potato for discussion?
    Here is an opinion from an ex diplomat regarding the contents of the two readouts.

    Emphasisinng an ex-ambassador's perspective.

    Biden Doctrine abates China tensions

    September 11, 2021 by M. K. BHADRAKUMAR

    "A 90-minute phone conversation between the presidents of the United States and China surely makes world news, but President Joe Biden’s call to his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping on Friday draws special attention on its timing, backdrop and substance. It comes ‘post-Afghanistan’, on the eve of the 20th ‘anniversary’ of the 9/11 attacks and amidst high expectations of a ‘Biden Doctrine’ struggling to be born in the US foreign policy. All three are defining moments amidst the backdrop of sure signs of a slow, steady decline of the United States accelerating of late.

    An excellent essay in the Foreign Affairs magazine defines the Biden Doctrine as follows: A ‘coherent version of pragmatic realism—a mode of thought that prizes the advancement of tangible U.S. interests, expects other states to follow their own interests, and changes course to get what the United States needs in a competitive world… [marking] a welcome change from decades of over-assertive U.S. foreign policy that has squandered lives and resources in pursuit of unachievable goals.’ read more

    Of course, the above definition is only partly correct. Wasn’t Biden an ardent advocate of the NATO expansion, the turning point in the post-cold war era big-power politics? George Kennan had forewarned at that time with great prescience:
    “Why, with all the hopeful possibilities engendered by the end of the Cold War, should East-West relations become centered on the question of who would be allied with whom and, by implication, against whom in some fanciful, totally unforeseeable and most improbable future military conflict?”

    “[B]luntly stated…expanding NATO would be the most fateful error of American policy in the entire post-Cold War era. Such a decision may be expected to inflame the nationalistic, anti-Western and militaristic tendencies in Russian opinion; to have an adverse effect on the development of Russian democracy; to restore the atmosphere of the cold war to East-West relations, and to impel Russian foreign policy in directions decidedly not to our liking … ”
    Biden no doubt represented the American establishment and was full of the ‘unipolar moment’ like the the US strategic community and political elite. He supported the US-led military intervention in Yugoslavia and voted to authorise the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. In the initial heady phase of the invasion of Iraq, he even saw the US putting that country ‘on the path to a pluralistic and democratic society.’

    Yet, to be fair, once it became clear that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were going horribly wrong, Biden opposed any ‘surge’ strategy and urged quick exit. Call it a pragmatic realistic streak or the premonition of a consummate politician, herein lies the best hope for the Biden Doctrine, which he enunciated on August 31 in a landmark speech on the end of the war in Afghanistan.
    It is a bit early to conclude that Afghanistan withdrawal presages a recast of the US military footprint globally — although domestic reform is the compelling reality today for Biden, which demands rollback of the imperial overreach.

    Certainly, the touchstone will be the US’ excessively militarised and zero-sum approach in Asia. Biden’s call for extreme competition with China ratchets up tensions. If this extends to an explicit guarantee to defend Taiwan, Washington’s already extensive regional commitments would cross the red line.

    Biden’s approach has been to intensify geopolitical rivalry with China while also welcome cooperation on common challenges, preserving room for diplomacy. However, Beijing has lately taken a tough line ruling out selective engagement — that is, unless the US jettisons its hostile attitude toward China to suppress it wilfully, cooperation is not possible.

    It is from such a perspective that Biden’s call to Xi on Friday needs to be understood. The three-fold salience of the White House readout is, firstly, that a ‘broad, strategic discussion’ has taken place resulting in a mutual agreement to engage ‘openly and straightforwardly’ on areas where their interests converge as well as where ‘our interests, values and perspectives diverge.’
    Secondly, Biden underscored the US’ commitment to ‘peace, stability, and prosperity’ in the Indo-Pacific and to ensure that ‘competition does not veer into conflict.’ Thirdly, this has been a politely-worded White House readout devoid of oneupmanship or aggressive hectoring.
    The contrast with the curtly-worded White House readout of the first conversation on February 20 between Biden and Xi couldn’t be sharper. In February, Biden harped on ‘preserving a free and open Indo-Pacific’ and highlighted his ‘fundamental concerns about Beijing’s coercive and unfair economic practices, crackdown in Hong Kong, human rights abuses in Xinjiang, and increasingly assertive actions in the region, including toward Taiwan.’

    Biden was hanging tough and his interest in bilateral engagement narrowed down to ‘pursuing [with China] practical, results-oriented engagements when it advances the interests of the American people and those of our allies.’ Period. On Friday, on the contrary, Biden has virtually come round to conceding Beijing’s insistence on a holistic approach to the relationship. It suggests a major rethink.
    To be sure, the expansive Chinese readout is conspicuous for its note of satisfaction over the ‘candid, in-depth and extensive strategic communication and exchanges.’ Although the relationship has ‘run into serious difficulty’ only due to the US policy, Xi has gone the extra league:

    ‘Getting the relationship right is not an option, but something we must do and must do well… The two countries should look ahead and press forward, demonstrate strategic courage and political resolve, and bring China-U.S. relations back to the right track of stable development as soon as possible.’
    But then, Xi also gently flagged that ‘engagement and dialogue to advance coordination and cooperation’ need to be ’on the basis of respecting each other’s core concerns and properly managing differences.’ Overall, Xi’s remarks moderates the tough ‘all-or-nothing’ optics of senior Chinese officials ruling out cooperation unless the US policies mended its ways.

    The Chinese readout says Biden reaffirmed the US’ adherence to one-China policy and sought ‘more candid exchanges and constructive discussions with China to identify key and priority areas where cooperation is possible, avoid miscommunication, miscalculation and unintended conflict, and get U.S.-China relations back on track.’

    Biden also said the US ‘looks forward to more discussions and cooperation with China to reach more common positions’ on important issues and spotlighted that ‘the future of the bulk of the world will depend on how the United States and China get on with each other.’

    And the two leaders agreed to ‘maintain frequent contact by multiple means and instruct officials at the working level to intensify the work, conduct extensive dialogue and create conditions for the further development of China-U.S. relations.’

    Did they exchange notes for an early meeting in person? That’s entirely conceivable now. Biden appears to be discarding the illusions of suppressing China. There is realisation that China’s help and cooperation is vital for addressing key global issues ranging from climate change and Afghanistan to North Korea and Iran.

    Interestingly, all the recent high-level exchanges between the two countries have been initiated by the US side. Post-Afghanistan, through the past 3 weeks alone, Secretary of State Antony Blinken twice called Chinese State Councilor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi and Biden’s climate envoy John Kerry since communicated with Wang as well as Politburo member Yang Jiechi while visiting China.

    All this underscores a sense of urgency in Washington to open a pathway toward Beijing. The US administration is grappling with complex foreign policy challenges and facing huge pressure domestically with crises on multiple fronts.

    However, there is a contradiction here — the seething rivalry with rising China and the obsession with weakening the ‘strategic rival’ on one side and the acute need for China’s help and cooperation on the other side. Reconciling this contradiction becomes the litmus test of the Biden Doctrine."

    https://www.indianpunchline.com/bide...hina-tensions/

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Here is an opinion from an ex diplomat regarding the contents of the two readouts.

    Emphasisinng an ex-ambassador's perspective.
    He is a former journalist and politician, and a member of the Indian Communist Party. His wife is a former diplomat, not him. He is also over 100 years old. A-bit like your jaded political stance.

    Which ex ambassador are you referring to?

  23. #148
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  24. #149
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Translation: Like hoohoo, he is a snivelling chinky sycophant.

  25. #150
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    That’s from the about info on the blog he contributes to ………..as a journalist. He wrote it

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