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  1. #176
    Im bored AF Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    State funded but not state controlled as it is in Chinastan
    There's no difference. They both tow their respective regime lines.

    I actually don't think state media is a bad thing per se. I'm over my Ann Rand phase. But there's a lot of dickheads who pretend they are are Ann Rand fans just to get a dig in on China or Russia. Oh man state media ! Sounds dangerous.

    We've all been programed to believe state media is beyond the pale while having state media ourselves
    Last edited by Backspin; 15-09-2021 at 05:29 AM.

  2. #177
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    Australia's most trusted news source is the ABC, Britain's is the BBC. 'nuff said.

  3. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    There's no difference. They both tow their respective regime lines.

    I actually don't think state media is a bad thing per se. I'm over my Ann Rand phase. But there's a lot of dickheads who pretend they are are Ann Rand fans just to get a dig in on China or Russia. Oh man state media ! Sounds dangerous.

    We've all been programed to believe state media is beyond the pale while having state media ourselves
    Backspin doesn't get it.
    In China it's ALL state media. in the west there are opposing media as well.

  4. #179
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    The difference is, among othert things, that he doesn't remain a China-sycophant.
    By which I assume you mean Desmond Shum is a dissident. OK, but it doesn't change the fact that-

    According to the Edelman Global Trust Barometer of 2020, the Chinese government enjoyed the trust of 90% of its citizens – the highest level in the world... Another long-term Harvard study found the approval rating of the Chinese central government at 95%
    I think curious minds are more interested to know why, than to cherry pick an individual dissident and pretend it has any tangible impact on the above.

  5. #180
    Thailand Expat Saint Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    There's no difference. They both tow their respective regime lines.
    Yes, no difference.

  6. #181
    Thailand Expat Saint Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    than to cherry pick an individual dissident
    You asked for examples, now moaning it's cherry picked when you get one, next you'll shift the gaol...




    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    and pretend it has any tangible impact on the above.

    ooops, you already have!

  7. #182
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    My point was quite simple willy. An individual dissident does not obfuscate the fact that a long term Harvard study found that 95% of Chinese citizens approve of their government.

  8. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    My point was quite simple willy. An individual dissident does not obfuscate the fact that a long term Harvard study found that 95% of Chinese citizens approve of their government.
    If any Chinese citizen would dare to disapprove, they would be dead citizens very quickly. State controlled media and the publicity shy communist party, has the ultimate influence on Chinese citizens.

  9. #184
    Thailand Expat panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    By which I assume you mean Desmond Shum is a dissident. OK, but it doesn't change the fact that-
    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    According to the Edelman Global Trust Barometer of 2020, the Chinese government enjoyed the trust of 90% of its citizens – the highest level in the world...
    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    My point was quite simple willy. An individual dissident does not obfuscate the fact that a long term Harvard study found that 95% of Chinese citizens approve of their government.
    Just like you believe that 99.9% of the last presidential votes went to Xi . . . and in North Korea to Kim . . . out of free will and trust in the government

    You know you don't - just like you know that tye ABC and BBC are not mouthpieces for the respective government propaganda machines, but Chinese state media is.

    You're simply talking shit



    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Willy View Post
    You asked for examples, now moaning it's cherry picked when you get one, next you'll shift the gaol...
    Standard m.o. for the OhWoe, Klongdicks and now sabangs of the world

  10. #185
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    Well, if you wish to question Harvard Universities methodology and hard won academic reputation, I suggest you take it up with them.
    Similarly the Edelman global trust, which found a 'mere' 90% of Chinese citizens approve of their government.
    I'm afraid the all too obvious fact that you don't like this finding has absolutely no bearing on the matter.

  11. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    State funded but not state controlled
    I assume you mean it with tongue-in-cheek, don't you?

  12. #187
    Thailand Expat lom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Australia's most trusted news source is the ABC, Britain's is the BBC.
    and still there is such a huge quality difference between them.
    If I didn't know I would have guessed that ABC News was owned by Murdoch.

  13. #188
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    Hell no- the Murdoch press hates the ABC. So it couldn't be that bad!

  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    90% of Chinese citizens approve of their government.
    I would say an accurate number which has nothing to do with fear of stating they disapprove.

    Like us "westerners" your average Wang or Yang if you prefer looks first at their own everyday quality of life. There is absolutely no doubt your average Wang and family are far better off due to the last few decades of gov domestic policy.

    Plenty of jobs with good wages, a decent free education system for his kids, and a universal health care system which admittedly by any measure needs much improvement.

    Considering where your average Wang was a few decades ago he certianly would indicate favorabilty of the gov. Westerners would as well.

    However, as in the west, once your average Wang reaches the point where he is generally happy with his day to day welfare, things like individual freedoms will become more politically important. This will force the gov to reform which will take a major change in the powers that be who currently rule the country.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

  15. #190
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    I think that's the long and short of it too Nort. Like:- "it's the economy, stupid". Now try telling that to our resident Maoists in the Gang of Four!

  16. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Now try telling that to our resident Maoists in the Gang of Four!
    ^^I just did.

  17. #192
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Well, if you wish to question Harvard Universities methodology and hard won academic reputation, I suggest you take it up with them.
    Similarly the Edelman global trust, which found a 'mere' 90% of Chinese citizens approve of their government.
    And you're still forgetting that, unlike the West, it is not a wise decision to publicly say you don't trust your government in a shithole dictatorship like Chinastan.

  18. #193
    Thailand Expat helge's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lom (The View, from China)
    State funded but not state controlled
    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    I assume you mean it with tongue-in-cheek, don't you?
    You are right, and then again ...wrong

    We have politicians on the board, and some of those do not understand the principle of "arms length".

    Not perfect, but way better and more independent than massmedia done for ...profit.

  19. #194
    Thailand Expat Saint Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    a decent free education system for his kids,
    \_(ツ)_/ the proliferation of private, international and bilingual schools says otherwise

  20. #195
    Thailand Expat panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Plenty of jobs with good wages, a decent free education system for his kids, and a universal health care system which admittedly by any measure needs much improvement.
    As Wily mentioned above, the education system is far from 'decent' for most. It is still draconian and based on rote learning with antiquated methodology and attitudes. Our newest neighbours, a couple with two kids from Shanghai, said that education was one of the main reasons for their decision to sell their business and factory and move here . . . also paid cash for their not-cheap house . . . other reasons included salaries that were high and still not sufficient for their employees and then of course the constant IP theft. They were in the tech sector. If you're government-'connected' then your IP is protected, if not then the GLCs benefit.

    It's not all gold that glitters in the land of Winnie the Pooh

  21. #196
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    It is also still classed as a developing country- but the progress that has been made this century is nothing short of astonishing. A new world record!

    From the Editorial I posted #2 in this thread-

    But are we, the Chinese, satisfied? Not at all. Modernization in our country needs to be refined continuously. The serious income disparity between regions and different groups needs to be replaced by common prosperity. Those who get rich first need to bring others along. The welfare system in China needs to be further improved so that the next generation must live better off than the previous one. Food needs to be safer. The difficulty of seeing a doctor needs to be fundamentally solved. Every citizen's retirement needs to be secured. Accidents during production should be further reduced

  22. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Willy View Post
    \_(ツ)_/ the proliferation of private, international and bilingual schools says otherwise
    Not necessarily. For your average Zhou the public education system is fine. The private and international schools have to follow the Government prescribed curriculum and are subject to government oversight and scrutiny.
    As anywhere expensive private schools claim to offer a superior product but I think it's mostly about face and exclusivity that parents send their kids to these schools.
    As an aside, the preschool/kindergarten section has been entirely private and must be an incredible money earner. I sent two kids through kindy (They go up to age 6 which is considered the first year of primary)
    I really couldn't see how many people could send their kids as even the modest school I sent mine to was relatively expensive costing per month about 50% of the salary of the average zhou.
    With the recent reforms (banning private tutoring firms, including English training centers etc) The government are busy building Kindergartens so in a few years all the kids will go to government kindergartens at a fraction of the cost.
    The idea is to make having kids more affordable and I think it's a good idea.
    If we stop testing right now wed have very few cases, if any. Donald J Trump.

  23. #198
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    It's not all gold that glitters in the land of Winnie the Pooh
    Never is in any nation. My post was directly related to 90% gov favorability by your average Wang. Just a guess but I doubt your new neighbor falls into that category.

  24. #199
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    Why do I stand up for China in the way I do?

    A very simple question and one that was put to me in recently by a friend who happens to be a journalist, it wasn’t part of an interview, it was just a question posed by a curious person to a foreign friend who seems to be pro-China. My answer is just as simple as the question: I don’t really stand up for China, what I do is I ,stand up for the truth in reporting. I see something that’s wrong and I attempt to correct it with information that’s right.

    Recent articles by BBC, Reuters and even from “think tanks” such as The Institute for Strategic Dialogue[1], all seem to point at what they call “western influencers” and use words like: “pro CCP narrative” (Western media constantly refers to the CPC (the Communist Party of China), as “the CCP”), to describe the things we blog or vlog about. However, they all seem to be missing one very important point. Unlike them, we usually live inside of China, we are actively living in, observing and taking part in the very policies they call the “CCP narrative” and, generally speaking, we like them.

    I sent messages to several of my, foreign and seemingly Pro-China, friends to ask why they feel as they do. Some, like myself, are writers, some are vloggers with very large followings, indicating that there are a lot of people in the world who understand enough of what we say to believe we might have some credibility. We don’t have millions of readers or viewers like mainstream media, we aren’t a coordinated team, we don’t have a network of huge numbers of supporters reposting for us and we certainly don’t have marketing budgets or government support for the things we write, say or do. What we do have on our side is very easy to understand, it’s called truth.

    The feedback I got from my group of friends varied and was interesting. One is very afraid that the rhetoric is leading China towards an unwanted and unnecessary war. He sees the possibility that not only himself and his family, but millions of others will be killed in this war, and it wouldn’t be the first war based on lies and deception. He went on to make an additional point that China’s contributions to the world are not only exemplary but very much deserving of promotion.

    Another felt that, had he not come to China, he would be one of the believers of the “China bad” rhetoric but, having been here through the pandemic restrictions, a business slump and back into better times he views the country differently and frequently debates with family and friends back home about the differences between their perception, and his reality. He does what he does in order to give voice to Chinese people so that others, outside of China, will at least question the narratives. Another well-known vlogger, similarly, made the comment that he’s annoyed by the number of people commenting on China based on reports they’ve read, rather than visiting the country and seeing for themselves. Like most of us, he feels the governments and media of some countries are deliberately misleading their public into a belief that all is not what it seems in China.

    One very interesting comment came back from a vlogger who is not based in China, he’s not even particularly aware of what happens in China since he’s only visited the country one time and that was many years ago, but is acutely aware that toxic propaganda, corrosive sanctions and economic sabotage are all going on and this leads to senseless death and destruction. Right now, for want of a better enemy, some western governments as well as many media outlets are targeting China and, in his words: “this needs to be defeated”.

    For 1.4 billion people, China is home, it’s a place they are, quite justifiably, proud of. It’s a country that has landed machinery on Mars, sent men to its own space station, developed the most advanced generation of communications, installed infrastructure to accommodate more sustainable energy and leads the world with more EVs than the next 6 countries combined[2]. It recently handled the pandemic with a minimal loss of life and recovered well: are these scientific and technical achievements CPC narratives? No, they are cold hard facts.

    The rate of murder and rape in the entire country of China is lower than that of some individual American states: is this as a result of oppression? No, it’s as a result of an acceptable degree of surveillance, which is no higher than any developed country, as well as an efficient police service that rarely kills an individual and a society that generally believes in rule of law. CPC Narratives? No, once again these are easily identifiable and verifiable facts.

    850 million people have been lifted out of poverty. Curbs have been placed on excessive income generated by IT and Education industry IPOs. The benefits of this are for the 1.39 billion people who live and work normal lives, not the 1% of CEOs and billionaires. Those same billionaires are taxed their fair share and most wealthy companies put money back into society: are these CPC narratives? No, once again they are easily established as being true and the vloggers and writers are happy to repeat them. We repeat them not because, as is often alleged, the CPC asks us, coerces us, threatens our families or our visas or even rewards us for doing it. We amplify them to our followers because they are true and because they should be lauded.

    Standing up for this truth creates problems for us. Our home country’s media will often lambast and ridicule us, for example, despite being a GM in a multinational corporation in the security industry and despite having cycled several times across China (more than 20,000 kilometres and counting) and helped to raise several million RMB for charities in my adopted home city of Zhongshan, I’m described by Australia’s ABC, as a “retired security officer who rides a bike in China”. Recent articles by the BBC and others, of us being paid, simply because our narrative aligns with the CPC’s narrative are ridiculous.

    There’s a very simple reason why our narratives align with the CPC narratives and it’s not hard to understand — we’re here, we see it, we know what’s happening and we report truthfully about it. It’s hardly a coincidence that the CPC narrative happens to be the same as ours — they’re the architects of it!

    Jerry Grey – Medium

  25. #200
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Ah yeah, China deserves pandemic-related praise and no criticism because it recovered well.


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