Thread: The View, from China

Originally Posted by panama hat

One million? Shocking . . . where'd you get that figure as I thought it was a horrendous 4-500.000.

How about killing close to 100 million of your own people because of ideology?





Propaganda vs Propaganda . . . yes, fair fight then.

And he will crack on with that

Sure I will, as per the thread title. But I try to exercise some QC. I kinda doubt the great BJP gas bottle conspiracy has much in the way of legs.

The only people I can think of that would possibly think their life would be improved by going to Chinkystan would be the Rohingya and the North Koreans.

Originally Posted by Norton

I would suggest a measure of what folks think about a given can be seen in the number of folks who immigrate there.

Possibly

But your numbers are also one big mix of immigrants, cheap South Asian labour and refugees...and what do I know.

But up to you how you choose to read them. Just saying

Originally Posted by sabang

Inhumane? You mean like killing at least a million people this century for a spurious, losing "war on terror"?
Or lifting close to a billion people out of poverty into middle class affluence?
And achieving a 90%+ approval rating from your own citizens in the process?

I doubt they give a noodle what you might think, ignorant laowai. Haters gonna Hate.

I make no excuses for some of the grotesque behavior of western governments since WW2. Apart from the Falklands, that shit was totally above board with a 10 for execution; no pun intended.

And I don't like Chinas bullying in the South China Sea, and am certainly no fan of Chairman Xi.
Nonetheless, given it's accomplishments, Chinas rise in the last 30 years has been remarkably peaceable.

Originally Posted by helge

But your numbers are also one big mix of immigrants

Not my numbers and yes, all manner of immigrants and emigrants.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Isn't it sad that the Great Cultural Revolution and The Great Leap Forward caused all the old traditions to vanish

Not just traditions mind. CKS and his guys ran off with all the really good museum stuff and still have it the National Palace Museum. I spent days there and doubt I saw half of what they have. I lived walking distance in Madam CKS's posh hotel. The hotel was also home for many ancient Chinese artifacts.

The museum.



The hotel.

Yahoo now blocked as of this month.

The pre-fight press conference is complete. The outcome will be confirmed today.

Secretary Blinken’s Call with People’s Republic of China (PRC) State Councilor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi

Readout

Office of the Spokesperson

November 13, 2021

"The following is attributable to Spokesperson Ned Price:

Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken spoke on November 12 with PRC State Councilor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi.

The Secretary discussed preparations for President Biden’s upcoming virtual meeting with President Xi Jinping, noting the meeting presents an opportunity for the two leaders to discuss how to responsibly manage competition between the United States and the PRC while working together in areas where interests align.

The Secretary emphasized longstanding U.S. interest in peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait and expressed concern regarding the PRC’s continued military, diplomatic, and economic pressure against Taiwan. He urged Beijing to engage in meaningful dialogue to resolve cross-Strait issues peacefully and in a manner consistent with the wishes and best interests of the people on Taiwan. T

he Secretary also stressed the importance of taking measures to ensure global energy supply and price volatility do not imperil global economic recovery."

Secretary Blinken’s Call with People’s Republic of China (PRC) State Councilor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi - United States Department of State

One wonders when Taiwan became a bilateral issue for NaGastan?

China is the cause of the global energy supply and price crisis? Not THE LORD?

China is imperilling the global economic recovery?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wang Yi Speaks on the Phone with US Secretary of State Blinken


2021/11/13

"On November 13, 2021, State Councilor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi spoke on the phone with US Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken at the latter's request.

Wang Yi said that President Xi Jinping will hold a virtual meeting with President Biden on November 16. This meeting, keenly followed by the whole world, is of great significance not just for China-US relations, but also for international relations. It is the shared hope of the two peoples and the international community that the meeting will yield outcomes beneficial to both countries and the world. The helmsmanship of the two heads of state plays a key role in steering bilateral relations. The two sides should work in the same direction and make every preparation to ensure a smooth and successful meeting and bring bilateral relations back onto the track of sound and steady development.

Blinken said that the world is following closely the virtual meeting between the US and Chinese heads of state. Both sides have made full preparation and are making progress. The US side looks forward to sharing views on bilateral ties with the Chinese side during the meeting in the spirit of mutual respect and jointly send a strong message to the world.

In response to the US' recent wrong words and deeds on the Taiwan question, Wang Yi further elaborated on China's solemn position. Wang Yi said, both history and reality has fully proven that "Taiwan independence" is the biggest threat to peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait.

Any connivance of and support for the "Taiwan independence" forces undermines peace across the Taiwan Strait and would only boomerang in the end. Wang Yi noted, if the US truly wants to safeguard peace across the Taiwan Strait, then it should clearly and resolutely oppose any "Taiwan independence" moves, abide by the solemn commitments it made in the three China-US joint communiques and put the one-China policy into action and stop sending wrong signals to the "Taiwan independence" forces.

The two sides also exchanged views on issues including energy security, climate change and the Iranian nuclear issue, and agreed to maintain dialogue on responding to all kinds of global challenges.

Wang Yi Speaks on the Phone with US Secretary of State BlinkenThe Helmsman reference.

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Suppressing ‘Taiwan secession’ together key for China, US to manage competition: Global Times editorial


By Global Times Published: Nov 14, 2021 09:33 PM

"Chinese State Councilor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi on Saturday spoke with US Secretary of State Antony Blinken on the phone as both sides prepare for a virtual meeting between Chinese President Xi Jinping and US President Joe Biden scheduled for November 16 Beijing Time. The announcements of the foreign ministers' talks issued by China and the US both highlighted the Taiwan question, but there is a huge gap between their views. It is expected that the virtual meeting between the two heads of state will also give an important place to the Taiwan question which will be one of the biggest difficulties of the meeting.

The US noted in recent days that their expectation for the China-US video summit is to "responsibly manage the competition between the United States and the PRC." However, in order to "manage the competition between the US and China", the most critical and urgent is to defuse the explosive question concerning Taiwan, because the Taiwan Straits is the most likely flashpoint to trigger the confrontation between China and the US.

Blinken's call for the Chinese mainland to "engage in meaningful dialogue to resolve cross-Strait issues peacefully and in a manner consistent with the wishes and best interests of the people on Taiwan" is hypocritical cliché and nonsense. After the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) came to power again in 2016, it immediately abandoned the 1992 Consensus and never mentioned the one-China principle after that. Promoting "Taiwan secession" has become their explicit goal. However, the US did not stop the DPP authority's risky actions, but encouraged them, and then asked the Chinese mainland to adhere to the "peaceful way" to deal with the crisis across the Straits. Does it make any sense?

Yes, the Chinese mainland has been stepping up its preparations for a military conflict across the Taiwan Straits in recent years. Apart from making the Taiwan authorities aware that the risk of war is approaching them, is there any language in the world that can help them understand what they are doing is extremely dangerous?

To stabilize the cross-Straits situation, the only way is to ease confrontation politically and rebuild the political foundation for peaceful coexistence and discussion of the future between the two sides. The US should play a constructive role in changing the extreme path of the DPP authority. Without the minimum level of political mutual trust, can China and the US make it clear by arguing over what should be done across the Taiwan Straits and who bears a larger responsibility? Is there any meaning in such a discussion?

The US has pursued the Indo-Pacific Strategy with the main purpose of containing China, and played the "Taiwan card" against China. The Taiwan authorities have completely inclined to the US, openly claiming that they serve as "the front line of democracy against authoritarianism". The US wants the Chinese mainland to tolerate such authorities on the island. What moral authority do they think they have to persuade China to do so?

The Taiwan question is the ultimate red line of China. In order to reduce the risk of a strategic collision between China and the US, the latter must take a step back from the Taiwan question and show its restraint. The US is targeting China's core interests, causing fundamental tensions in bilateral relations. Washington must understand that it has gone too far, leaving China with no way back. It also needs to see that it is the only one that should take a step back to keep the forces between China and the US at a safe distance.

The US has recently begun to hype the issue of Taiwan's "participation" in the United Nations. It has openly done some salami slicing that could be seen as the US to "restore its military presence in Taiwan." As news about military cooperation between Washington and the island continues to emerge, how come this is only a "competition?" We cannot understand what the US side is doing while at the same time it is preaching about preventing the China-US competition from escalating into conflict. We increasingly feel that trying to figure out Washington's logic is a waste of time, and that force seems to work better than reasoning with the US side.

China is willing to work with the US to reduce the risks in the situation in the Taiwan Straits, but history tells us that the only thing the US really cares about is talks through strength. China will have to fight and have a dialogue with the US at the same time. We hope that the US side will participate in the video summit with some sincerity and it will promote the solution to the problems to ease the highly tense China-US relations, instead of putting the priority on getting tough on China to satisfy such a need in the US society.

The whole world is now worried about the further deterioration of China-US relations, and the key to turning the situation around is to change the US' belligerent policy toward China."

Suppressing ‘Taiwan secession’ together key for China, US to manage competition: Global Times editorial - Global Times

the Taiwan Straits is the most likely flashpoint to trigger the confrontation between China and the US.

Dear chinkystan: It's not yours, so fuck off.

Sincerely, the world.

The view from China and the view from the US should be working together is the only way to go. The benefits to both nations are huge. Ignore the chorus of those who list all the insignificant in comparison to the benefits of mutual cooperation. The sooner both nations get on with it the better of they will be.

Xi bares 3 principles, 4 priorities in growing ties in new era to Biden in virtual meeting



During the virtual meeting on Tuesday, Xi laid out three principles and four priority areas for China-US relations. In terms of principles, the two countries first need to respect each other's social systems and development paths, respect each other's core interests and major concerns, and respect each other's right to development.

They also need to treat each other as equals, keep differences under control, and seek common ground while reserving differences. The other two principles include peaceful coexistence and win-win cooperation. No conflict and confrontation is a line that both sides must hold, the Chinese President said.

China put "mutual respect" ahead of other principles to show it is the premise for the two countries to develop constructive and stable relations, Lü Xiang, director for research of the Chinese Institute of Hong Kong, told the Global Times on Tuesday.

"The three principles and four priorities put forward by the Chinese leader are concrete proposals in the hope of pushing bilateral relations back on the right track," Lü said.

Since 2018, the US has continuously interfered in China's domestic affairs such as Hong Kong and Xinjiang matters, and it showed no respect to China and posed malicious confrontations, the expert added. "China reframed the principles for growing bilateral relations, which means reorganizing the content of the new type of major power relations," he added. However, there were major differences in Chinese and US readouts following the virtual meeting. In a shorter statement from the White House compared to the nearly 4,000-word Chinese statement, Biden recognized the importance of managing strategic risks as well as "the need for common-sense guardrails to ensure that competition does not veer into conflict." Still, Biden raised so-called concerns about Xinjiang, Tibet and Hong Kong, as well as human rights.

When it came to the Taiwan question, Biden said the US remains committed to the one-China policy, which is guided by the so-called Taiwan Relations Act, the three Joint Communiques, and the Six Assurances, according to the readout.

On the Taiwan question, Xi said we have the patience and will strive for the prospect of peaceful reunification with utmost sincerity and efforts. But if separatist forces for "Taiwan independence" provoke us, force our hand or even cross the red line, we will be compelled to take resolute measures, the Chinese President noted.

From the content of the meeting, experts said China adopted a high-minded stance in focusing on the future of the bilateral relationship, but the US focused on detailed issues to serve its domestic political agenda. With a broader view, China gives high regard to the international order by repeatedly stressing the importance of maintaining a peaceful and stable international environment, but the US only cares to manage relations with its allies, some experts said.

It also showed that China eyes developing China-US relations from a much bigger picture and in the long run, Lü noted. "Unlike the US' flip-flop policies, China's policies toward the US are consistent and persistent," he said.

Full Article- https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202111/1239139.shtml

^Think you got your threads mixed up 'arry.

Nearly two years into a pandemic that has seen China pursue some of the world's most stringent coronavirus measures, some grumbling has started to emerge over the strategy, particularly as other nations learn to live with the virus.

The zero-Covid approach is unrelenting -- with border closures, targeted lockdowns and mass testing triggered sometimes by just one case.
The cost and pain of the strategy have been felt especially acutely by the 210,000 residents of Ruili, a Chinese city on the border with Myanmar that has endured three major lockdowns and frequent mass testing -- leaving many businesses on the brink of collapse.


A merchant surnamed Lin said his jewellery business was hanging by a thread, with tourists and customers staying away because of Covid restrictions.
"We continue operating... but we're scraping by," Lin told AFP, refusing to give his full name for fear of reprisals.
In a widely shared television interview this month, University of Hong Kong professor Guan Yi questioned China's strategy, arguing it should not conduct mass testing "at every turn" or give out booster vaccine doses without enough data on their efficacy.


While China largely succeeded in stamping out infections during the first year of the pandemic, the Delta variant has proven more difficult to contain.
Cases have been detected in more than 40 cities in recent weeks, putting millions under lockdown and disrupting the lives of millions more -- even though the numbers pale in comparison with many other countries.
Weddings were cancelled and mourners told to keep funerals short, as schools were closed and flights grounded -- sometimes stranding thousands of tourists.
And there was outrage online over health workers killing a pet dog with a crowbar while its owners were in quarantine, with furious social media users complaining about how harshly Covid measures have been implemented.


Those deemed to have failed in controlling Covid are often sacked, driving local officials to increasingly drastic containment measures.
One region offered thousands of dollars for information about an outbreak.
Beijing is "facing growing domestic pressures to pivot to a more flexible approach", Yanzhong Huang of the Council on Foreign Relations told AFP.
The desperate saga of one man highlighted the trouble some have faced because of tech malfunctions or bureaucratic lags.
After an overnight work trip, the man could not get the "green code" on a health app that people require to travel and was left stranded.
It sparked an outcry. The man's baffled colleague wrote on social media that he was vaccinated, had not travelled to high or even medium-risk areas, and had a negative test result.
After the incident got attention online, authorities admitted there may have been mistakes in some isolated cases.
Analysts say Beijing is unlikely to relax its approach until at least after a top Communist Party congress in late 2022, and if there are more effective vaccines available by then.
China has given conditional approval to five domestic vaccines, but their published efficacy rates lag behind shots developed elsewhere.
Some government figures have quietly expressed doubts over their efficacy against the Delta variant.
State media, however, have tried to shut down debate, with Xinhua insisting it is "simply not right" to question China's strategy.
Leaders are likely to dig in their heels and dismiss "frustrated citizens as a minority", said Natasha Kassam of the Lowy Institute, an Australian think tank.

- 'Miserable' -

Meanwhile in Ruili, the frustration among the residents was laid bare in a WeChat post from former deputy mayor Dai Rongli, who said the measures were "squeezing... the last signs of life" out of the city.
It struck a chord.
"Only those in this situation know how miserable people are feeling," one local wrote in response.
One Ruili toddler has already taken more than 70 Covid tests, local media reported.
With no income, a video maker surnamed Lu said he was forced to burn through savings just to pay rent for his office space.
"I can't hold on for much longer," he said.
Some Ruili residents have decided they cannot wait for things to change.
A jade merchant surnamed Wen told AFP he left the city with his family after months of struggling.
"There's no business to be done now in Ruili."

Fatigue and frustration as China presses strict zero-Covid strategy (msn.com)



Are they right, or wrong to be so uncompromising about Covid? I guess time will tell.
I think Melbourne still holds the world record for most locked down city.

Originally Posted by sabang

^Think you got your threads mixed up 'arry.

Well spotted Bruce.

Originally Posted by sabang

Nearly two years into a pandemic that has seen China pursue some of the world's most stringent coronavirus measures, some grumbling has started to emerge over the strategy, particularly as other nations learn to live with the virus.

The longer they keep it up, the longer they stay out of Thailand.

Which is OK with me.

China and the United States will ease restrictions on access for journalists from each other's countries, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian said at a regular press briefing on Wednesday.

China and the U.S. reached three consensuses based on the principles of mutual respect, reciprocity and mutual benefit, serving the media's interests on both sides, said Zhao.

China and the U.S. will permit journalists and other media personnel to freely move between the two countries on the condition they strictly comply with COVID-19 containment protocols and consular regulations, Zhao said.

It was agreed that the U.S. will issue one-year multiple-entry visas to Chinese media personnel and immediately initiate a process to address "duration of status" issues, he said.

The Chinese side commits to granting equal treatment to U.S. journalists immediately after the relevant U.S. policies come into force, he added.
China and the U.S. will issue media visas for new applicants based on relevant laws and regulations, according to the spokesperson.

Hailing the result as hard-won and worth cherishing, Zhao said he hopes the U.S. side keeps its promise and puts the relevant measures and policies in place as soon as possible.

He urged the U.S. to work together with China to create favorable conditions for reporters of both countries to continue to work and live in each other's countries.

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-11-17/China-hopes-U-S-to-honor-commitment-to-ease-restrictions-on-reporters-15gqyLkB2y4/index.html


Assuming both sides follow their word, definitely a move for the better.