Thread: The View, from China

Originally Posted by OhOh

China, US make 'breakthrough' agreement on tackling climate change, but US needs to do more

What a crock of horseshit.

The chinkies lied about switching away from coal and even now are still building more coal fired power stations.

Only you could be dumb enough to think anyone would believe Mr. Shithole's fucking nonsense.

China’s new coal power spree continues as more provinces jump on the bandwagon

Coal power continues to expand in China, despite the government’s pledges and goals. In the first half of 2023, construction was started on 37 gigawatts (GW) of new coal power capacity, 52 GW was permitted, while 41 GW of new projects were announced and 8 GW of previously shelved projects were revived. Of the permitted projects, 10 GW of capacity has already moved to construction.

https://energyandcleanair.org/publication/chinas-new-coal-power-spree-continues-as-more-provinces-jump-on-the-bandwagon/

Originally Posted by Norton

Ever lived or worked in the PRC Harry? I have and from what I saw back in the early 80s, they have "done quite well" for their citizens since then. You don't like their political system. Fair nuff but the average citizen is better off in near all the areas of which citizens in all nations care about.

Here's another one who's "better off" eh?

Imagine if the UK did that, half of fucking Scotland would be in nick.

A 23-year-old Hong Kong student was sentenced to two months in prison on Friday for "seditious" social media posts made while in Japan, highlighting the reach of the city’s laws beyond its borders.
Yuen Ching-ting was handed her sentence at West Kowloon Court for “doing acts with seditious intent.”
Yuen pleaded guilty to sedition on Oct. 26 for 13 social media posts, the majority of which she made while studying at a Japanese university, while two were made when she was in Hong Kong, the South China Morning Post reported. Yuen was on bail while she awaited sentencing.
Yuen had returned to Hong Kong from Tokyo in February to renew an identity card and was arrested in early March, just a day before her flight back to Japan.
The court said she had violated a colonial-era sedition law by expressing support for Hong Kong independence in posts on Facebook and Instagram between September 2018 and early March this year. The prosecutor noted that they were accessible in Hong Kong even though they were made in Japan.

H.K. student gets two-month sentence for 'seditious' posts from Japan - The Japan Times

Originally Posted by Norton

the average citizen is better off in near all the areas of which citizens in all nations care about.

Things your average citizen cares about the most.

"It's the economy stupid."

The view from for China in one word is....stinks!

Originally Posted by spliff

The view from for China in one word is....stinks!

I agree. Far prefer the view from my back porch to that of China or for that matter anywhere else.

A poll released by the Taiwanese Public Opinion Foundation yesterday showed 48.9 percent of Taiwanese support obtaining formal national independence, while 26.9 percent support maintaining the “status quo” and 11.8 percent support unification with China.

So barely 1 in 10 Taiwanese think they should be chinkies.

And they're probably getting paid.

Says it all really.

Was this his intended audience?

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Mao Ning’s Regular Press Conference on November 17, 2023

2023-11-17 18:00

Attachment 108786

"CCTV: Yesterday in San Francisco President Xi Jinping attended and addressed a welcome dinner hosted by friendly organizations in the US. The audience burst into extended applause a dozen times during the speech. Many present have said that President Xi’s speech, sending a message of friendship to the American people, is of historic significance. Do you have more information to share with us?

Mao Ning: On November 15 local time, President Xi Jinping attended in San Francisco a welcome dinner hosted by friendly organizations in the US and delivered an important speech. Before the dinner started, President Xi held cordial meetings with representatives of the US business community and other sectors as well as friends from descendants of the Flying Tigers and General Joseph W. Stilwell, Kuliang, Iowa, Washington State, among others.

President Xi always values, supports and encourages people-to-people exchanges between China and the US. He said on many occasions that the hope of the China-US relationship lies in the people, its foundation is in our societies, its future depends on the youth, and its vitality comes from exchanges at subnational levels. Looking back on history, we can see clearly that none of the high-stake events in China-US relations would have been possible without the reaching out to each other by our peoples. During the second World War, the Chinese and American people forged a bond of the Flying Tigers, which has stood the test of blood and fire. In 1971, a small ball moved the globe, leading to the handshake across the Pacific. Kuliang Friends continue to add new chapters to a century-old friendship story. The Philadelphia Orchestra recently returned to China for a concert in commemoration of the 50th anniversary of its first visit. The goodwill and friendship between our two peoples has time and again brought China-US relations from a low ebb back onto the right track.

As President Xi Jinping noted in his speech, the foundation of China-US relations was laid by our peoples. The door of China-US relations was opened by our peoples. The stories of China-US relations are written by our peoples. The future of China-US relations will be created by our peoples. Once opened, the door of China-US relations cannot be shut again. Once started, the cause of China-US friendship cannot be derailed halfway. No matter how the global landscape evolves, the historical trend of peaceful coexistence between China and the United States will not change. The ultimate wish of our two peoples for exchanges and cooperation will not change. The expectations of the whole world for a steadily growing China-US relationship will not change. 

At this San Francisco meeting, the two heads of state reached important consensus on facilitating travels and promoting people-to-people exchanges. The two sides will increase direct passenger flights, hold a high-level dialogue on tourism, and streamline visa application procedures. The Chinese side has announced that it is ready to invite 50,000 young Americans to China on exchange and study programs in the next five years. We hope that our two peoples will make more visits, contacts and exchanges, write new stories of friendship in the new era and inject fresh impetus into the sustained growth of China-US relations."

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Mao Ning’s Regular Press Conference on November 17, 2023

The full speech can be found here :

In Full: Xi Jinping'''s speech at the Welcome Dinner in San Francisco

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

So barely 1 in 10 Taiwanese think they should be chinkies.

Aside from the few indigenous Tawanese, they are already chinkies Harry.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Beijing’s relations with the breakaway province

No bias there, eh?

Long live a free and independent Taiwan!

Originally Posted by happynz

No bias there, eh?

Long live a free and independent Taiwan!

Republic Of China (ROC) was declared on 1 January 1912.
Peoples Republic of China (PRC) was declared 1 October 1949.

For some the PRC not the ROC is in fact the break away province.

Originally Posted by Norton

Aside from the few indigenous Tawanese, they are already chinkies Harry.

Yes, but they're proper chinkies. They should own Chinkystan, not the other way round.

Originally Posted by Norton

For some the PRC not the ROC is in fact the break away province.

Always astounded how few people know this key fact. The CCP stole the country from the ROC.

Originally Posted by bsnub

The CCP stole the country from the ROC.

^
You really are a massive idiot...

With the loss of the mainland, the ROC government retreated to Taiwan and the KMT declared Taipei the provisional capital. Meanwhile, the CCP took over all of mainland China and founded the People's Republic of China (PRC) in Beijing.

Republic of China (1912–1949) - Wikipedia

Originally Posted by bsnub

Republic of China (1912–1949) - Wikipedia

The Republic of China (ROC)^[n] or simply China^[o] was a sovereign state based in Mainland China from 1912 to 1949 prior to its move to Taiwan.^[

'was'
Are you toeing the CCP line ?

Originally Posted by bsnub

The CCP stole the country from the ROC.

Stole ?

At night ?

It was a civil war, you tosser.

Did the North steal the South in your civil war ?

Or steal it back ?

Originally Posted by bsnub

Always astounded how few people know this key fact.

Most people don't know, but most people also do not claim that they know. Without knowing

Unlike you

Originally Posted by helge

It was a civil war, you tosser.

No fucking shit, you idiot.

Originally Posted by helge

Most people don't know, but most people also do not claim that they know. Without knowing

Unlike you

You are an astounding idiot, as always.

The people of China have suffered greatly since the ROC government was forced to retreat to Taiwan. Mao is the biggest mass murderer in world history and your hero Stalin is close second, yet you snicker and think it is funny and yes the CCP stole the country against the will of most of the population, unlike your absurd reference to the US civil war which was about the abolition of slavery and was supported by most of the US population.

Your lack of historical understanding and context is once again glaringly on display.

BSnub digging himself a nice hole .....again

Originally Posted by bsnub

Mao is the biggest mass murderer in world history

Could be

Originally Posted by bsnub

Stalin is close second

Also could be

Originally Posted by bsnub

your hero Stalin

Oh dear

Originally Posted by bsnub

your absurd reference to the US civil war which was about the abolition of slavery and was supported by most of the US population.

And whoosh

Originally Posted by bsnub

the US civil war which was about the abolition of slavery and was supported by most of the US population.

Ofcourse not on debate here, but: "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it"

Guess who

About the "steal":

Communists were, like the Kuo Min Tang was, ...chinese, and they were in the end stronger than their opponent despite the western backing.

So how you come to the conclusion that they "stole" the victory, is what amazes me. (though I shouldn't be when it comes from you)

Did the commies cheat ?

You could however argue that the Kuo Min Tang "stole" Taiwan. Or rather highjacked it, as their "get away car".

Taipeh China had only been "chinese" for a few years, when they took it over, and ruled it with iron fist for decades thereafter.

(I doubt that the facist Chiang Kai Check ever set foot there, until he started running)


The US stole most of their territory

Who was the biggest mass murderer in the history of the world? Most people probably assume that the answer is Adolf Hitler, architect of the Holocaust. Others might guess Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, who may indeed have managed to kill even more innocent people than Hitler did, many of them as part of a terror famine that likely took more lives than the Holocaust. But both Hitler and Stalin were outdone by Mao Zedong. From 1958 to 1962, his Great Leap Forward policy led to the deaths of up to 45 million people – easily making it the biggest episode of mass murder ever recorded.

Historian Frank Dikötter, author of the important book Mao’s Great Famine recently published an article in History Today, summarizing what happened:

Mao thought that he could catapult his country past its competitors by herding villagers across the country into giant people’s communes. In pursuit of a utopian paradise, everything was collectivised. People had their work, homes, land, belongings and livelihoods taken from them. In collective canteens, food, distributed by the spoonful according to merit, became a weapon used to force people to follow the party’s every dictate. As incentives to work were removed, coercion and violence were used instead to compel famished farmers to perform labour on poorly planned irrigation projects while fields were neglected.

A catastrophe of gargantuan proportions ensued. Extrapolating from published population statistics, historians have speculated that tens of millions of people died of starvation. But the true dimensions of what happened are only now coming to light thanks to the meticulous reports the party itself compiled during the famine….

What comes out of this massive and detailed dossier is a tale of horror in which Mao emerges as one of the greatest mass murderers in history, responsible for the deaths of at least 45 million people between 1958 and 1962. It is not merely the extent of the catastrophe that dwarfs earlier estimates, but also the manner in which many people died: between two and three million victims were tortured to death or summarily killed, often for the slightest infraction. When a boy stole a handful of grain in a Hunan village, local boss Xiong Dechang forced his father to bury him alive. The father died of grief a few days later. The case of Wang Ziyou was reported to the central leadership: one of his ears was chopped off, his legs were tied with iron wire, a ten kilogram stone was dropped on his back and then he was branded with a sizzling tool – punishment for digging up a potato.

The basic facts of the Great Leap Forward have long been known to scholars. Dikötter’s work is noteworthy for demonstrating that the number of victims may have been even greater than previously thought, and that the mass murder was more clearly intentional on Mao’s part, and included large numbers of victims who were executed or tortured, as opposed to “merely” starved to death. Even the previously standard estimates of 30 million or more, would still make this the greatest mass murder in history.

While the horrors of the Great Leap Forward are well known to experts on communism and Chinese history, they are rarely remembered by ordinary people outside China, and have had only a modest cultural impact. When Westerners think of the great evils of world history, they rarely think of this one. In contrast to the numerous books, movies, museums, and and remembrance days dedicated to the Holocaust, we make little effort to recall the Great Leap Forward, or to make sure that society has learned its lessons. When we vow “never again,” we don’t often recall that it should apply to this type of atrocity, as well as those motivated by racism or anti-semitism.

The fact that Mao’s atrocities resulted in many more deaths than those of Hitler does not necessarily mean he was the more evil of the two. The greater death toll is partly the result of the fact that Mao ruled over a much larger population for a much longer time. I lost several relatives in the Holocaust myself, and have no wish to diminish its significance. But the vast scale of Chinese communist atrocities puts them in the same general ballpark. At the very least, they deserve far more recognition than they currently receive.

I. Why We so Rarely Look Back on the Great Leap Forward

What accounts for this neglect? One possible answer is that most of the victims were Chinese peasants – people who are culturally and socially distant from the Western intellectuals and media figures who have the greatest influence over our historical consciousness and popular culture. As a general rule, it is easier to empathize with victims who seem similar to ourselves.

But an even bigger factor in our relative neglect of the Great Leap Forward is that it is part of the general tendency to downplay crimes committed by communist regimes, as opposed to right-wing authoritarians. Unlike in the days of Mao, today very few western intellectuals actually sympathize with communism. But many are reluctant to fully accept what a great evil it was, fearful – perhaps – that other left-wing causes might be tainted by association.

In China, the regime has in recent years admitted that Mao made “mistakes” and allowed some degree of open discussion about this history. But the government is unwilling to admit that the mass murder was intentional and continues to occasionally suppress and persecute dissidents who point out the truth.

This reluctance is an obvious result of the fact that the Communist Party still rules China. Although they have repudiated many of Mao’s specific policies, the regime still derives much of its legitimacy from his legacy. I experienced China’s official ambivalence on this subject first-hand, when I gave a talk about the issue while teaching a course as a visiting professor at a Chinese university in 2014.

II. Why it Matters.

For both Chinese and westerners, failure to acknowledge the true nature of the Great Leap Forward carries serious costs. Some survivors of the Great Leap Forward are still alive today. They deserve far greater recognition of the horrible injustice they suffered. They also deserve compensation for their losses, and the infliction of appropriate punishment on the remaining perpetrators.

In addition, our continuing historical blind spot about the crimes of Mao and other communist rulers, leads us to underestimate the horrors of such policies, and makes it more likely that they might be revived in the future. The horrendous history of China, the USSR, and their imitators, should have permanently discredited socialism as completely as fascism was discredited by the Nazis. But it has not – so far – fully done so.

Just recently, the socialist government of Venezuela imposed forced labor on much of its population. Yet most of the media coverage of this injustice fails to note the connection to socialism, or that the policy has parallels in the history of the Soviet Union, China, Cuba, and other similar regimes. One analysis even claims that the real problem is not so much “socialism qua socialism,” but rather Venezuela’s “particular brand of socialism, which fuses bad economic ideas with a distinctive brand of strongman bullying,” and is prone to authoritarianism and “mismanagement.” The author simply ignores the fact that “strongman bullying” and “mismanagement” are typical of socialist states around the world. The Scandinavian nations – sometimes cited as examples of successful socialism- are not actually socialist at all, because they do not feature government ownership of the means of production, and in many ways have freer markets than most other western nations.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...derer-his-due/

Originally Posted by helge

The US stole most of their territory

A long time ago in a galaxy far away and no the US did not steal anything, initially the British did. You really need to fuck off about US history, because you are clueless.

Originally Posted by helge

BSnub digging himself a nice hole .....again

You love to falsely claim this when you are getting your shit packed in as usual. Now fuck off and go play with your Legos bitch.

Originally Posted by bsnub

Originally Posted by helge
The US stole most of their territory

A long time ago in a galaxy far away and no the US did not steal anything, initially the British did. You really need to fuck off about US history, because you are clueless.

Originally Posted by bsnub

You love to falsely claim this when you are getting your shit packed in as usual. Now fuck off and go play with your Legos bitch.

You know, Snub

I can't deny that you know more and show more interest in .... hmm, let's say politics and some history,....than the average seppo.

But too bad that you can't digest it and put the puzzle together.

Being dogmatic won't help you understand

Originally Posted by helge

But too bad that you can't digest it and put the puzzle together.

Being dogmatic won't help you understand

You really are a complete moron. You have proven yourself clueless again and again. This time is nothing new, but what I find odd is that the countries that you shill for seem to be the countries that you know fuck all about. Utterly laughable.

Originally Posted by bsnub

the countries that you shill for

Which is ?

And how ?