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  1. #101
    Thailand Expat russellsimpson's Avatar
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    The enduring image for this disaster for me will be the desperate thousands of, particularly women and children, having to be put through a regime of that terrible run for the airport all the time being hassled by various tribesmen who might shoot you and have your children taken on a whim. It breaks my heart to see the many thousands being left behind. Shame. This should never happen again.
    A true diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you will be asking for directions.

  2. #102
    Thailand Expat havnfun's Avatar
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    Well russ, at least you can express your feelings on the situation, It does help to have an avenue to vent without all your posts and pics being deleted. Just don't express any negative opinion on Biden's handling of the situation and you will be fine.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson View Post
    This should never happen again.
    What exactly should “never happen again”?

  4. #104
    Thailand Expat russellsimpson's Avatar
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    ^The situation where you have desperate and innocent women and children being humiliated in such a manner. There's lots of blame to go around so I'm not pointing my finger at anybody. Only time will be the judge in this circumstance.

  5. #105
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson View Post
    Only time will be the judge in this circumstance.
    Indeed. I predict it will be somewhat a footnote in main stream history. Highlight being it was one of the greatest airlifts of all time.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson View Post
    ^The situation where you have desperate and innocent women and children being humiliated in such a manner. There's lots of blame to go around so I'm not pointing my finger at anybody. Only time will be the judge in this circumstance.
    Name a conflict in history, where the exit was anything less than a shit show.

  7. #107
    Thailand Expat havnfun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beachbound View Post
    Name a conflict in history, where the exit was anything less than a shit show.
    Dunkirk ended up pretty good, They made a movie about it.

  8. #108
    Guest Member S Landreth's Avatar
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    Afghan Girls Robotics Team Recounts Escape From Kabul, Desire To Continue Education (2:39 into the video)



  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson View Post
    The situation where you have desperate and innocent women and children being humiliated
    It is a tragic situation, however I don't accept the idea that this suffering is caused by America and NATO. It is domestic abuse and you can find it around the world today, for example Yemen, Somalia, Ethiopia, Venezuela. The media feed on some more than on others, we have had pictures of children dying in Africa all my life and it doesn't get much press these days. It is still a tragedy for the people involved.

  10. #110
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    we have had pictures of children dying in Africa all my life and it doesn't get much press these days
    ..."defense" contractors don't make money from dying African children...

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ..."defense" contractors don't make money from dying African children...
    Actually, what they make money from?

    Blackwater founder Erik Prince charging $6.5K to get people out of Afghanistan
    August 25, 2021

    Biden Made the Right Call-blackwater-jpg


    Defense contractor and Blackwater founder Erik Prince is reportedly now chartering planes to get people out of Afghanistan — as the US struggles to evacuate Americans and allies before the Aug. 31 deadline.

    Prince is guaranteeing people that he can get them safely into Kabul’s Hamid Karzai International Airport and onto a charter flight for $6,500 a person, the Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday.

    He is charging extra if people are trapped in their homes and need assistance getting to the airport, the report said.

    It wasn’t immediately clear if Prince had the money, or means, to carry out such rescues and who they were being offered to, nor was there indication Prince was profiting off chartering the planes.

    Blackwater founder charging $6.5K to get people out of Afghanistan

  12. #112
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  13. #113
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    Shouldn't the thread be named.

    Trump made the right call, but Biden and co chose the wrong time.

    shouldn't the Americans of left in the middle of winter, not at the start of the fighting season.

    to think they employ intelligence officers

  14. #114
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chico View Post
    shouldn't the Americans of left in the middle of winter, not at the start of the fighting season.
    There were multiple calls from the then operating embassies. Any figures of foreigners leaving in that calmer time?

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chico View Post
    Trump made the right call, but Biden and co chose the wrong time.
    You buffoon the orange moron wanted to withdraw in mid-May which is the start of the fighting season.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chico View Post
    shouldn't the Americans of left in the middle of winter, not at the start of the fighting season.
    Just further proof that you know fuck all. After August, the weather turns cold fast. It is the end of the fighting season.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    You buffoon the orange moron wanted to withdraw in mid-May which is the start of the fighting season.
    Yes, but the Taliban wouldn't have been ready in May — after "holidaying" in Pakistan during the winter — to take over the country like they did this month, would they?


    Also, not sure why Biden pulled out the troops in the middle of the night (surprising allies) before getting everyone out.


    Biden said the Afghani government told him it would make them look bad if Biden said "get out" before pulling out our military.


    So, Biden obeyed the Afghani government's request.


    I'm not going to criticize Biden too much as it would be a problematic withdrawal anyway.


    But, pretty sure Trump wouldn't let the Afghani government or Taliban fuck around — and he told the Taliban leader personally in Doha, "we know where you live".


    Also, Biden was supposed to be the one who the allies would respect compared to Trump.


    What are they thinking now about Biden?


    hmm

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
    Yes, but the Taliban wouldn't have been ready in May
    You have no idea what you are talking about, as usual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
    What are they thinking now about Biden?
    That he is a far more competent and legitimate leader than your orange god.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
    What are they thinking now about Biden?

    hmm
    That he is a far more competent and legitimate leader than your orange god.
    Guess you haven't been reading what they are saying — and this is just a gist.

    If you'd like more quotes from European leaders, let me know.


    From the AP:

    Allies embraced Biden. Did Kabul lay bare "great illusion"?

    BRUSSELS (AP) — Well before U.S. President Joe Biden took office early this year, the European Union’s foreign policy chief sang his praises and hailed a new era in cooperation. So did almost all of Washington’s Western allies.

    The EU’s Josep Borrell was glad to see the end of the Trump era, with its America First, and sometimes America Only policy, enthralled by Biden’s assertion that he would “lead, not merely by the example of our power, but by the power of our example.”

    Sunday’s collapse of Kabul, triggered by Biden’s decision to get out of Afghanistan and a U.S. military unable to contain the chaos since, certainly put a stop to that. Even some of his biggest fans are now churning out criticism.

    Borrell was among them, this time aghast at Biden’s contention that “our mission in Afghanistan was never supposed to have been nation-building,” coming in the wake of Western efforts over much of the past two decades to sow the seeds of the rule of law and assure protection for women and minorities.

    “State-building was not the purpose? Well, this is arguable,” a dejected Borrell said of Biden’s stance, which has come under criticism in much of Europe.

    And for many Europeans steeped in soft power diplomacy to export Western democratic values, Biden’s assertion that, “our only vital national interest in Afghanistan remains today what it has always been: preventing a terrorist attack on American homeland,” could have come from a Trump speech.

    EU Council President Charles Michel underscored the different stances when he said in a tweet Thursday that the “rights of Afghanis, notably women & girls, will remain our key concern: all EU instruments to support them should be used.”

    French Parliamentarian Nathalie Loiseau, a former Europe minister for President Emmanuel Macron, put the unexpected EU-Biden disconnect more bluntly: “We lived a little bit the great illusion,” she said. “We thought America was back, while in fact, America withdraws.”

    It was no better in Germany, where a leading member of German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s center-right Union bloc, Bavaria Gov. Markus Soeder, called on Washington to provide funding and shelter to those fleeing Afghanistan, since “the United States of America bear the main responsibility for the current situation.”

    Even in the United Kingdom, which has always prided itself on a its “special relationship” with Washington and now, more than ever, needs U.S. goodwill to overcome the impact of leaving the EU, barbs were coming from all angles.

    Former British Army chief Richard Dannatt said, “the manner and timing of the Afghan collapse is the direct result of President Biden’s decision to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by the 20th anniversary of 9/11.”

    “At a stroke, he has undermined the patient and painstaking work of the last five, 10, 15 years to build up governance in Afghanistan, develop its economy, transform its civil society and build up its security forces,” Dannatt said Wednesday in Parliament.

    “The people had a glimpse of a better life — but that has been torn away.”

    Biden has pointed to the Trump administration deal negotiated with the Taliban 18 months earlier in Doha, Qatar, which he says bound him to withdraw U.S. troops, as setting the stage for the chaos now engulfing the country.

    Still, Biden putting much of the blame on Afghan forces for not protecting their nation has not gone down well with Western allies, either.

    Conservative Parliament member Tom Tugendhat, who fought in Afghanistan, was one of several British lawmakers taking offense.

    “To see their commander-in-chief call into question the courage of men I fought with, to claim that they ran, is shameful,” Tugendhat said.

    Chris Bryant, from the opposition Labour Party, called Biden’s remarks about Afghan soldiers, “some of the most shameful comments ever from an American president.”

    In Prague this week, Czech president Milos Zeman said that, “by withdrawing from Afghanistan,

    But despite all the criticism, there is no doing without the United States on the global stage. America remains vital to the Western allies in a series of other issues, in particular taking action against global warming.

    After climate change disasters across much of the globe this year, the EU will be counting heavily on Biden to stand shoulder-to- shoulder in taking effective measures at the November COP26 global conference in Glasgow, Scotland, to speed up action to counter global warming.

    Europe and Washington also have enough trade disagreements to settle to realize that despite the debacle of Afghanistan, there is much more that unites than divides them. A need for American power and help remains, even in Afghanistan.

    Before Friday’s meeting of NATO foreign ministers, some Alliance nations have acknowledged they will be pleading to Washington to stay even longer in Afghanistan than it will take to bring all U.S. citizens home, wanting to make sure their people get out too.

    “We and a number of other countries are going to the Americans to say: ‘Stay as long as possible, possibly longer than necessary,’” Dutch Minister of Foreign Affairs Sigrid Kaag said.

  19. #119
    Thailand Expat havnfun's Avatar
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    Any body else have some gut issues about this?
    Drone strike killed 2 ISIS-K operatives, Pentagon says
    Even the TV news reports only say it was a "Planner" of future attacks.
    My gut was, why now, who was it, is this for show, who was it, did they do this to take the heat off, who was it.
    Turns out that a lot of Vet's are just saying "man I wonder who those poor guy's were in that truck".

  20. #120
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by havnfun View Post
    Any body else have some gut issues about this?
    Drone strike killed 2 ISIS-K operatives, Pentagon says
    Even the TV news reports only say it was a "Planner" of future attacks.
    My gut was, why now, who was it, is this for show, who was it, did they do this to take the heat off, who was it.
    Turns out that a lot of Vet's are just saying "man I wonder who those poor guy's were in that truck".
    "A lot of" <- oh look, it's baldy orange cunto-style bollocks.

    No, they're not. You're making shit up you gibbering buffoon.

  21. #121
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by havnfun View Post
    Drone strike killed 2 ISIS-K operatives, Pentagon says
    ...well, it's a start...

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    He's hit the nail on the head.

    This is bad "optics". Whatever Biden did was going to be bad "optics". He's a hero for not backing down.

    And the Afghan government is to blame.

    They had money, weapons, forces and training and they took the money and ran.
    Indeed, They are not acting in good faith.

  23. #123
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ...well, it's a start...
    Says it all. ameristan breaking its international agreements. Doha 1 and 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by spliff View Post
    Indeed, They are not acting in good faith.
    Which causes of Doha 1 and 2, have the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan ignored and broken?

  24. #124
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Says it all.
    ......naive little clam...

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson View Post
    ^The situation where you have desperate and innocent women and children being humiliated in such a manner. There's lots of blame to go around so I'm not pointing my finger at anybody. Only time will be the judge in this circumstance.
    The blame lays with those who gets us in conflicts with no clearly defined exit goals.
    That an exit from Afghanistan would have been at best messy was well known to all those involved,, that's why no previous president including Obama had the balls to get us out.
    Actually Boden with no re-election goals is the right man to take the bullet , and get us out of this hole in the ground called Afghanistan we kept pouring lives, and money we don't have in.
    I think it is time to put aside partisan sniping and as Americans support our own best personal interest rather than our political football team.
    Last edited by Buckaroo Banzai; 30-08-2021 at 02:20 PM.
    The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up.

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