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  1. #1
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    The Secret IRS Files: Trove of Never-Before-Seen Records Reveal How the Wealthiest Av

    In 2007, Jeff Bezos, then a multibillionaire and now the world’s richest man, did not pay a penny in federal income taxes. He achieved the feat again in 2011. In 2018, Tesla founder Elon Musk, the second-richest person in the world, also paid no federal income taxes.


    Michael Bloomberg managed to do the same in recent years. Billionaire investor Carl Icahn did it twice. George Soros paid no federal income tax three years in a row.

    ProPublica has obtained a vast trove of Internal Revenue Service data on the tax returns of thousands of the nation’s wealthiest people, covering more than 15 years. The data provides an unprecedented look inside the financial lives of America’s titans, including Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch and Mark Zuckerberg. It shows not just their income and taxes, but also their investments, stock trades, gambling winnings and even the results of audits.

    Taken together, it demolishes the cornerstone myth of the American tax system: that everyone pays their fair share and the richest Americans pay the most. The IRS records show that the wealthiest can — perfectly legally — pay income taxes that are only a tiny fraction of the hundreds of millions, if not billions, their fortunes grow each year.




    Many Americans live paycheck to paycheck, amassing little wealth and paying the federal government a percentage of their income that rises if they earn more. In recent years, the median American household earned about $70,000 annually and paid 14% in federal taxes. The highest income tax rate, 37%, kicked in this year, for couples, on earnings above $628,300.


    The confidential tax records obtained by ProPublica show that the ultrarich effectively sidestep this system.

    MORE The Secret IRS Files: Trove of Never-Before-Seen Records Reveal How the Wealthiest Avoid Income Tax — ProPublica

  2. #2
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    IRS Is Investigating Release of Tax Information of Wealthy Americans


    WASHINGTON—Federal authorities are investigating the release of wealthy Americans’ tax information, Internal Revenue Service Commissioner Charles Rettig said Tuesday.


    ProPublica, a nonprofit news organization, published details about the reported income and tax payments of some of the richest Americans, including Amazon.com Inc. Chief Executive Officer Jeff Bezos and Berkshire Hathaway Inc. CEO Warren Buffett.


    Taxpayer information is confidential, and there are potential criminal penalties for IRS employees or others who release such information. Mr. Rettig told lawmakers that there were internal and external investigations beginning, with potential prosecutions to follow.


    “I share the concerns of every American for the sensitive and private nature and confidential nature of the information the IRS receives,” he said during a Senate Finance Committee hearing that had been scheduled before the information was released. “Trust and confidence in the Internal Revenue Service is sort of the bedrock of asking people and requiring people to provide financial information.”


    The ProPublica article said the news organization didn’t know the identity of its source and described the information it received as IRS data on thousands of people covering more than 15 years. It isn’t certain that the information—a highly unusual airing of private tax data—came directly from within the IRS or whether the agency was hacked in some way. The article highlighted years in which Mr. Bezos and others paid little or no federal income tax.

    MORE
    IRS Is Investigating Release of Tax Information of Wealthy Americans - WSJ

  3. #3
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    it demolishes the cornerstone myth of the American tax system: that everyone pays their fair share and the richest Americans pay the most.
    ...only pollyannish idiots would believe this "cornerstone myth"...there have been myriad published articles that show wealthy individuals and corporations pay little (or no) taxes...

  4. #4
    Thailand Expat
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    Wonder how long till havnfun copies and pasts a link to this thread into his own ?

  5. #5
    I'm in Jail

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ...only pollyannish idiots would believe this "cornerstone myth"
    It's always been the same - have wealth, increase it, pay less tax - accountants.

    Same cornerstone myth as everyone can get rich and become president in the US . . . the great unwashed masses get duped again and again

  6. #6
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    the great unwashed and poorly educated masses get duped again and again
    ...ftfy...

  7. #7
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    dirk diggler's Avatar
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    People, businesses and corporations are quite within their rights to minimise or eliminate their taxes as long as they are doing it legally.

    I'm all for loopholes. They may be frowned upon or unethical but they are legal.

    Fuck tax.

  8. #8
    I'm in Jail

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirk diggler View Post
    People, businesses and corporations are quite within their rights to minimise or eliminate their taxes as long as they are doing it legally.
    True . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by dirk diggler View Post
    I'm all for loopholes. They may be frowned upon or unethical but they are legal.
    True

    Quote Originally Posted by dirk diggler View Post
    Fuck tax.
    Here we disagree. Taxation is necessary to build and uphold infrastructure - we all benefit from it.


    Where it becomes revolting on two fronts is:

    Government - Corruption

    Individuals/Businesses -
    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    Jeff Bezos, then a multibillionaire and now the world’s richest man, did not pay a penny in federal income taxes. He achieved the feat again in 2011. In 2018, Tesla founder Elon Musk, the second-richest person in the world, also paid no federal income taxes.


    Michael Bloomberg managed to do the same in recent years. Billionaire investor Carl Icahn did it twice. George Soros paid no federal income tax three years in a row.

  9. #9
    Thailand Expat Slick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    The ProPublica article said the news organization didn’t know the identity of its source and described the information it received as IRS data on thousands of people covering more than 15 years.
    I hope they find the leaker and punish whoever it is to the fullest extent of the law.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Here we disagree. Taxation is necessary to build and uphold infrastructure - we all benefit from it.

    -

    True.

    But how many times are you taxed on your dollar?

    Income, property, council, inheritance, fuel, tobacco, alcohol, VAT...

  11. #11
    Achieve By Unity cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirk diggler View Post
    how many times are you taxed on your dollar?
    Umm...the issue isn't whether or not the ordinary joe is paying enough tax, dirk.

    As an example, Elon Musk is worth $151 bn and paid 3.27% between 2014 and 2018.

    That's the issue.

    Sorry to state the obvious but, really, read your post.

    They are two sides of the same coin.

  12. #12
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    dirk diggler's Avatar
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    It's easy to look a bit kee neow as a percentage, but 3.27% of his is a lot of fucking beer tokens.

    Hi indirect contribution to the state is... astronomical!

  13. #13
    Achieve By Unity cyrille's Avatar
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    So it's fair to keep charging millions of people for...

    Income, property, council, inheritance, fuel, tobacco, alcohol, VAT...
    ...to make up the shortfall?


    I don't get how you can say one is OK and the other unfair.

  14. #14
    Thailand Expat Slick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    Elon Musk is worth $151 bn and paid 3.27% between 2014 and 2018.
    This is a fabricated, made-up tax rate based on the journalists own standard. Corporate & business tax rates are confusing and complex and having activists masquerading as journalists writing hit pieces using stolen information like in the OP is both fucked up and unethical.

  15. #15
    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
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    What a ridiculously successful propaganda campaign!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick View Post
    Corporate & business tax rates are confusing and complex and having activists masquerading as journalists writing hit pieces using stolen information like in the OP is both fucked up and unethical.
    The irony and hypocrisy is as usual mind-numbing. This coming from a lemming that swallows every right wing talking point and regurgitates them without question.

  17. #17
    Thailand Expat Slick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    The irony and hypocrisy is as usual mind-numbing. This coming from a lemming that swallows every right wing talking point and regurgitates them without question.
    Nothing I said is a “talking point” or “right wing” it’s a statement of fact.

    Hint: you don’t pay tax unless you have INCOME.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick View Post
    Nothing I said is a “talking point” or “right wing” it’s a statement of fact.
    Attempting to pigeonhole propublica because you do not like what they are reporting is an example of your hypocrisy and that is the point I was making. Clearly to blinkered to see that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick View Post
    Hint: you don’t pay tax unless you have INCOME.
    No fucking shit Einstein and that is the core point the article is addressing. The tax system is broke because everyone knows that rich oligarchs do not obtain wealth from INCOME.

    Tax experts have long understood that the wealthiest Americans reap outsized benefits from the federal tax code’s emphasis on taxing income rather than assets like stock holdings and property.
    Clearly you did not even read why they chose to publish the article.
    Last edited by bsnub; 09-06-2021 at 03:57 PM.

  19. #19
    Thailand Expat Slick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    No fucking shit Einstein and that is the core point the article is addressing. The tax system is broke because everyone knows that rich oligarchs do not obtain wealth from INCOME.
    The tax system is based on INCOME you complete jackass, that’s why it’s called INCOME tax.

    You don’t have INCOME until your wealth is realized, aka when you sell stock and actually take a payout - INCOME.

    If I buy stock and my money triples overnight, my “wealth” gets bigger but unless I sell it and get paid out, my “income” stays the same - which is zero in taxable income.

    You fucking toad.

    Propublica is fabricating their own made-up tax system invented by activists and printed for idiots who can’t even balance a checkbook or obtain a credit card. Just like you.

  20. #20
    Achieve By Unity cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick View Post
    using stolen information like in the OP is both fucked up and unethical.
    Yeah that's the fucked up and unethical thing here slick, sure.



    However...

    At least some of America’s richest people want to better tax wealth. Patriotic Millionaires, a group campaigning to increase taxes on the rich, said the ProPublica report demonstrated “how the richest 400 Americans end up owning more wealth than the bottom 150 million Americans combined”.


    “The ultra-wealthy get to pick and choose when and how they’re taxed,” Patriotic Millionaires said. “This is exactly why we need a strong, unavoidable wealth tax now.”
    Richest 25 Americans reportedly paid ‘true tax rate’ of 3.4% as wealth rocketed | Business | The Guardian

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick View Post
    The tax system is based on INCOME you complete jackass, that’s why it’s called INCOME tax.
    You fucking imbecile. No fucking shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick View Post
    You don’t have INCOME until your wealth is realized, aka when you sell stock and actually take a payout - INCOME.
    You would pay the tax these oligarchs don't, that is the difference you do not seem to grasp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick View Post
    If I buy stock and my money triples overnight, my “wealth” gets bigger but unless I sell it and get paid out, my “income” stays the same - which is zero in taxable income.
    No fucking shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick View Post
    Propublica is fabricating their own made-up tax system invented by activists and printed for idiots who can’t even balance a checkbook or obtain a credit card. Just like you.
    No, they just are not a complete fucking dimwitted Trumpanze moron like you are. Stop pointing out obvious shit that anyone who took a basic business class would understand and then trying to act like you have a shred of intellect. It just makes you look more stupid, dummy.

  22. #22
    Thailand Expat Slick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    Yeah that's the fucked up and unethical thing here slick, sure.
    Yeah using stolen federal documents is extremely unethical yet is a normal practice for certain groups of activists. All about democracy and rights unless it’s towards groups they dislike, then it doesn’t matter, meanwhile, businesses & people are legally following the income tax code and get their shit leaked and this is somehow perfectly fine.

    PS: there is no such thing as a “true tax rate” this is literally made-up bullshit.

  23. #23
    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
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    Siri,

    Show me a stereotype of a low-information 'conservative' voter who still thinks 'trickle-down' is a thing cos those that actually benefit from it told him so...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick View Post
    Yeah using stolen federal documents is extremely unethical yet is a normal practice for certain groups of activists.
    Leaked governmental documents have been used for years, it is nothing new. Stop trying to make up your own rules for what constitutes unethical behavior. Your orange god is the definition of unethical. Stop hypocriting.

  25. #25
    Thailand Expat Slick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    You would pay the tax these oligarchs don't, that is the difference you do not seem to grasp.
    Idiot, I don’t pay any tax on my “wealth” until I sell, just like these “oligarch” boogeymen you cry so much about.

    You have the same opportunities they do yet you choose to not play the game and cry when others do better than you.

    You really are just a mental juvenile in all this, Bshit. Full of piss and vinegar and not much else.

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