Thread: Gun control in the U.S.

Originally Posted by pickel

Here's one.

Nope, that's not what HC said.

It's a waste of bandwidth even discussing this topic, unfortunately. They might put some restrictions in place that make a mass-murderer have to wait a few extra days before going on a killing spree after picking up his assault rifles, 15 x 30 shot magazine's, and 12,000 rounds of 7.62 ammunition, but he will still be getting that hardware if he meets the requirements. If not he'll just pick it all up at a gun show, off a private seller, or by other means.

Every time there's a mass shooting there or the stats of murder by firearm are released the same threats to do something about gun control get rolled out but nothing ever really happens, or ever will. They love their guns way too much and long ago accepted the fact that part of being able to own a totally ridiculous amount of weapons is that innocent people (including kids in schools) are going to get murdered regularly.

America: where guns and the freedom to worry about being shot just going to school are inalienable rights and effective and affordable health care is a socialist plot.

Originally Posted by TheRealKW

Nope, that's not what HC said.

Do you have a different definition of what it means to ban something?

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

America: where guns and the freedom to worry about being shot just going to school are inalienable rights and effective and affordable health care is a socialist plot.

What would your solution to the problem be Ant?

Originally Posted by pickel

What would your solution to the problem be Ant?

Simples: gun controls and background checks.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Simples: gun controls and background checks.

Didn't work in NZ. The Christchurch shooting still happened.

Originally Posted by Barty

Didn't work in NZ. The Christchurch shooting still happened.

Because of flaws with the system.

Haven’t been any mass shootings since have there.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Because of flaws with the system.

Haven’t been any mass shootings since have there.

Well, I respectfully disagree with you there, Ant. There weren't any major flaws in the system of firearms licensing in NZ before the Christchurch massacre. The system should have stopped the shooter from ever having gotten a licence in the first place, and without the licence he would not have been allowed to legally obtain any firearms. The failing of the system was the police not doing their job and giving him a licence without proper background checks and interviews with friends and family members. You will note that there has been no punishment or reprimands to any police member over the Christchurch massacre. At least one person, maybe more, from the police force should be sitting in a jail cell right next to Tarrant because they are directly responsible for the murders in Christchurch.

The last mass shooting in NZ before the Christchurch massacre was in 1997 where 6 people were killed with a shotgun. Previous to that was the infamous Bain murders where 5 family members were killed with a .22 rifle. Under the current laws, those shootings could easily happen again as the firearms used in those mass shootings are still legal to own. In fact, firearms that have been used in all mass shootings in NZ, except for two, are still legal to own.

Christ, there's no comparison. there have been more mass shootings in the U.S. this year alone than N.Z. has ever had.

^^That’s exactly what I mean though, had the system been followed correctly he couldn’t have got the license / guns.

Also I don’t think the Bain murders are a very good comparison, entirely different scenario, and armed with the same weapon no way Tarrant could’ve killed 51 people.

Originally Posted by Headworx

They love their guns way too much and long ago accepted the fact that part of being able to own a totally ridiculous amount of weapons is that innocent people (including kids in schools) are going to get murdered regularly.

The majority of Americans support tighter gun laws, including the right of a judge to remove weapons from someone considered a danger to themselves or others.

Since the mother of the IA killer told police before that she thought he wanted to commit suicide by police, that probably would have been a step they would have taken had it been available, and flagged him for rejection of any gun purchase.

Most Americans would support that type of control, but the NRA and its politician lackies would always block it.

The whole problem is the second half of the 2nd amendment : the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

As stated, there really is no wriggle room. So, the only way forward is another amendment is replace that one, and the chance of getting that through the States is close to zero.

Add in a 6:3 conservative majority on the SC, and the fact that States can set their own laws, and you have an unholy mess. Texas I believe has just gone to permitless open carry. Yeehaw.

Only way I can see forward is for the States demographics to change sufficiently to allow a change in the second amendment. And that is going to take decades.

I disagree, it’s just some words on some paper, nothing magic and involuable about it. And it was a product of its time when “Arms” meant muskets not semi-auto rifles with extended magazines.

Besides “Arms” could also include rocket launchers or surface-to-air missiles but those aren’t freely available to the public 2A or no. It’s just this ridiculous situation where Fox has got people all riled up that unless they can own high-powered guns they don’t need with no restrictions then their Freedumbs are being taken from them—these same people who have to be licensed to drive a car or do any number of other things.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

I disagree, it’s just some words on some paper, nothing magic and involuable about it. .

I think the whole of the American legal and political and judicial system is structured around the exact opposite of that, to be honest.

However, no dog in the fight.

Reasoning with unreasonable people is an excursive in futility.
The only thing one can do with the far right nutcases is ridicule them ,and as best as you can, move forward without them.

The US should adopt the same laws that are used in the UK.

A general amnesty period followed by gun permits for legitimate reasons, that is shotgun and rifle for vermin control. A licence to be issued with validity of 1 year and can only be obtained at police stations at county level. Positive ID, requirement for use and medical certificate.

All allowed guns must be contained in a safe. Ammunition and guns not allowed to be stored together etc.

The shotgun must not be an auto loader and should be restricted to a maximum size of 12-bore with shot cartridges.
The rifle must not be automatic or semi-automatic but bolt-action with a magazine of maximum capacity of 10 rounds. I would also limit the calibre of the rifle (say .308) as well as the muzzle velocity.
Hand guns would only be allowed to be used, and must be kept, at gun ranges. Gun ranges only for gun clubs and strict laws to become members of one of these clubs.

Anybody in possession of a gun in public is a legitimate target for police. Possession of a lethal weapon with intent to use.


Perhaps in a couple of generations the idea of owning a gun would not be tolerated by the general public and the police could drop the necessity to wear a firearm and use only tasers when absolutely necessary.


That's what needs to happen to make America a safe place to live again.

Troy

Anybody in possession of a gun in public is a legitimate target for police.

that.

Originally Posted by Troy

The US should adopt the same laws that are used in the UK.

That will never happen.

Originally Posted by bsnub

That will never happen.

Therein lies the main problem. Too many people are resigned to the fact they can't control a situation and so it carries on unabated.

Ask yourself how many occasions in history has the general opinion been: "It'll Never Happen"

This coming from someone that lives in a country that put a man on the moon.


It will happen if the people want it to happen.

The trouble with the right is they love defending their constutional rights, but forget them it comes to people who might be, say, black for example.

Originally Posted by Troy

It will happen if the people want it to happen.

Right now there is no chance. The demographics in America are rapidly changing and the right is dying off in a rapid pace so maybe in ten years this could be possible.

I agree that open carry is ridiculous. There also needs to be licensing and background checks with waiting periods. But that doesn't change the fact that there are 380 million guns in America that will be impossible to take from their owners without starting a civil war.

What America needs to do is find a way to get it through peoples heads that it's not okay to shoot up school children. They have a serious morality problem that may be easier to solve, and with less carnage, than trying to take everyone's guns away.

It took a devastating Civil War for Americans to decide that owning people was a bad idea. God only knows what it will take them to decide the same about guns.......

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Only way I can see forward is for the States demographics to change

Originally Posted by bsnub

The demographics in America are rapidly changing and the right is dying off

Here you can see 2 people tell you why they want amnesties for illegal aliens, statehood for territories, and increasing “refugee” intake.

Bshit will be open with his extremism and agree on why he wants it. Nidhogg I’m not sure if he’s that nefarious.

Either way, the politicians they favor are all in on it.

But the older I get the less I care. The USA is fucked. Half the country should just divorce the other and be done with it.

Just don’t fuck up the markets before I cash out and retire. Just need 15 more years and it can burn down for all I care.