1. #8951
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    No way the UN has the right to enforce a referendum be held for a province to succede from the Ukraine and Russia sure as hell doesn't.
    The succestion from Ukraine and referenda were called for by the two recently created countries. The two oblasts, similarly.

    Russia was asked by them for assistance with the organisation, foreign certifiers attendants, security .... Which resulted in an overwhelming desire to join Russia.
    Last edited by OhOh; 03-10-2022 at 11:39 AM.

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    KHERSON / FLASH TRAFFIC / 2230 UTC 2 OCT/ UKR forces have broken though Russian positions and driven down the T-04-03 HWY. Combat reported in the urban areas of the town of Dudchny. This offensive has sent RU units reeling south.
    This will give the Three Stooges fits...

    Ukraine war mega thread-qj2eiwe-jpg

  3. #8953
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    I would like nothing more than for a proper Referendum to be held under independent, UN supervision.
    It was never a legal right. After all Russia ceded Crimea to Ukraine a short time before in an unforced international agreement. Russia lost any moral right to ask for one when they invaded Crimea and drove out many Ukrainians before they orchestrated a sham referendum.

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    A COLD WINTER: RU State Duma Deputy Andrei Gurulev represents the region of Trans-Baikal. Preparing for the mobilization of his constituents, he suddenly noticed the mysterious disappearance of 1.5 MILLION stored winter uniforms. Quote: "It was all there- where did it disappear?"
    Ukraine war mega thread-fvlfikq-jpg

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/statu...15100395331585

  5. #8955
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    Unless a referendum is held and monitored by the UN, we don’t know the results.
    A link would assist acceptance of your "UN involvement", assertion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    It was never a legal right
    The UNGA, the "The International Court of Justice, also known as the World Court, is the main judicial organ of the UN."

    Kosovo is one example.


    and the foreign observers do not agree with your opinions.



    Last edited by OhOh; 03-10-2022 at 11:47 AM.

  6. #8956
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Blablablabla.

  7. #8957
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    LYMAN/1120 UTC 2 OCT/ RU forces within the Lyman salient have collapsed. RU units that escaped UKR encirclement retreated in disorder. RU sources reveal that at least 500 newly mobilized troops refused orders to fight, and surrendered positions piecemeal during the withdrawal.
    Ukraine war mega thread-liaw4fn-jpg

  8. #8958
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    Accepting those referendums as real is ludicrous. Even if there were a majority in favor, it could never be the 95+% they claimed. These are Soviet/Dictatorship numbers we know all to well.

  9. #8959
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    Unless a referendum is held and monitored by the UN, we don’t know the results.
    Monitored is fine but only the Ukraine can hold the referendum.

    Article 72

    An All-Ukrainian referendum is designated by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine or by the President of Ukraine, in accordance with their authority established by this Constitution.

    An All-Ukrainian referendum is called on popular initiative on the request of no less than three million citizens of Ukraine who have the right to vote, on the condition that the signatures in favor of designating the referendum have been collected in no less than two-thirds of the oblasts, with no less than 100 000 signatures in each oblast.

    Article 73

    Issues of altering the territory of Ukraine are resolved exclusively by an All-Ukrainian referendum.

    Whether you like it or not.
    Anyone thinking otherwise is just making up shit and trying to justify the ridiculous notion a nation can invade another, hold a referendum and declare it all nice n legal. Laughable!
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

  10. #8960
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    I haven't seen any pictures of prisoners or bodies pile up, or of any great collection of seized hardware. So what happened to them all?
    Look at reddit threads about the Ukraine war. Hundreds of videos and photos are posted every day. Quite a few of them of seized hardware, dead bodies, and pow's.

  11. #8961
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    ^^ I was under the impression that under Russian law conscripts were not allowed to fight outside of Russia and these referendums were to get around this issue. That is, to allow the newly mobilised 300,000 to actually go to Ukraine to fight.

  12. #8962
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Ukraine is a very large country. A tactical nuke by itself would not break Ukrainian forces, as they are far too dispersed to be wiped out. Nukes will not help to turn the war into Putin's favor. Watch this video, it is an excellent analysis by a British defense expert...



    I want to see the Ukrainians win. I want them to defeat Russian barbarism and liberate their land. If that is being "gung-ho" then so be it.
    I saw an interview today of a ukraine commander who said his forces were spread out for this very reason. The problem the russkies have is they would have to drop it on the annexed territory to have any effect which would not only pollute the area but may get carried to the breakaway towns and possibly over the Russian border. Troy, whatever you think about snubbies turn of phrase he has provided some inciteful material and his predictions have been pretty well spot on right up to the capture of Lyman. I cant agree it is dangerous. I would rank the europeans aquiesence as dangerous. It was those that have predicted this russian agression from the start that has been proven correct and standing up to Putin, chiefly by the USA and UK that has contributed to the failures of the russians so far not withstanding the magnificent fight back of the Ukrainians. Frankly without the USA and to a lesser degree the UK, Ukraine could have been under Russian control by now.
    It must be remembered at the start Macron was talking basically appeasement while the Germans answer was to send a few helmets to help with what I dont know.
    I suppose the Ukraine soldiers could've tied it to their crotch to protect their knob.

  13. #8963
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    ssues of altering the territory of Ukraine are resolved exclusively by an All-Ukrainian referendum
    after the eviction of all russian citizens

  14. #8964
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    Russian state TV, the face of panic. Open the tweet for a long video, with subtitles in english.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/s...96427409559558

    Tonight on Russian state TV: the mood is grim, look at their faces. Dmitry Sablin, Deputy Chairman of the Defense Committee, admits that Russia desperately needs "to stop and regroup" and is experiencing all sorts of shortages, compared to Ukraine that has it all —and then some.
    Along with a lot of other nonsense, he says the Ukrainians are 3-4 times our forces everywhere. Plus they have more and better weapons. But still our forces kill up to 9 times Ukraininans than our losses.




    "don't attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    There is a real shortage of trustworthy news. I understood that Lyman was surrounded, a few thousand Russian troops encircled, the only possible way ot a single road within range of Ukranian fire.
    Then they are all gone?
    I haven't seen any pictures of prisoners or bodies pile up, or of any great collection of seized hardware.
    I have seen the photos and videos. Piles and piles of dead and dismembered Russians, burned out vehicles of every kind. Tons of equipment captured from tanks on down that will be repurposed and used by the Ukrainians.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    So what happened to them all?
    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    They retreated.
    Most of them were killed or captured. The RU troops in Lyman had one avenue of escape, a road surrounded by hills on either side. The Ukrainians had both of those hillsides. When the Russians started to retreat it was frantic with many of them panicking and running through the woods and open ground. They ran directly through interlocking fields of fire, shells of artillery and small arms fire poured down on them from either side of the two hillsides. Many of the Ukrainian troops fired so much, some of them ran out of ammunition and had to retrieve more. I also heard that they killed so many Russians in that battle that some would have to have a break as they were rattled by the amount of carnage they rained down on the Russians.

    I saw some of the videos and images. I wish I hadn't. If you want to see it for yourself, it is up on Reddit or Twitter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    I saw an interview today of a ukraine commander who said his forces were spread out for this very reason. The problem the russkies have is they would have to drop it on the annexed territory to have any effect which would not only pollute the area but may get carried to the breakaway towns and possibly over the Russian border. Troy, whatever you think about snubbies turn of phrase he has provided some inciteful material and his predictions have been pretty well spot on right up to the capture of Lyman. I cant agree it is dangerous. I would rank the europeans aquiesence as dangerous. It was those that have predicted this russian agression from the start that has been proven correct and standing up to Putin, chiefly by the USA and UK that has contributed to the failures of the russians so far not withstanding the magnificent fight back of the Ukrainians. Frankly without the USA and to a lesser degree the UK, Ukraine could have been under Russian control by now.
    It must be remembered at the start Macron was talking basically appeasement while the Germans answer was to send a few helmets to help with what I dont know.
    I suppose the Ukraine soldiers could've tied it to their crotch to protect their knob.
    Well said Hugh, and thanks for the kind words.

  16. #8966
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    If you want to see it for yourself,
    I'm not keen on dead bodies. I guess my point was more general about mainstream media offering very little detail. As important as this is, I don't want to spend hours trawling through different apps and website trying to piece it all together. Which is why I appreciate your efforts.

  17. #8967
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    I would rank the europeans aquiesence as dangerous.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    Frankly without the USA and to a lesser degree the UK
    You really have a hard-on about this . . . every single time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    Even if there were a majority in favor, it could never be the 95+% they claimed
    It is in Russia, China, North Korea . . . basically anywhere you find a dictatorship that needs to show they are there for an by the people.

  18. #8968
    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    ...whatever you think about snubbies turn of phrase he has provided some inciteful material and his predictions have been pretty well spot on right up to the capture of Lyman.
    Not only Lyman!
    We still don't know how this mess will turn out and maybe Ukraine will be defeated by brute or nuclear force. But so far the Russians got their ass kicked and Bsnubs was spot on. I have to admit that at some point I also thought Snubby is over his tops.
    Forgive me

  19. #8969
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    Kherson is next.

  20. #8970
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    That is rather strange.

  21. #8971
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Kherson is next.
    The gateway to Crimea and access to the Black Sea. You can bet Russia will throw every thing it has to defend. No cake walk to be able to take and hold it.

  22. #8972
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    That is rather strange.
    It is more Russian propaganda. The strategic culture foundation is a Moscow based "think tank" just more of your total trash that belongs in the Doghouse.

    The Washington Post reported in September 2020 that Facebook had banned a Russian disinformation network operated by SCF—a network that "helped spread conspiracy theories aimed at English-speaking audiences, including by fueling false rumors that the coronavirus was produced as a bioweapon and that a potential vaccine would include tracking technology."[5] The Post's report stated that the Strategic Culture Foundation “also spread false information that Bill Gates, the tech executive and philanthropist, was leading efforts to create a vaccine with surveillance capabilities.” The Post's report called the Strategic Culture Foundation “a phony think tank”.
    In April 2021, the United States Department of the Treasury imposed sanctions on SCF because of their efforts to interfere in the 2020 elections.[6][7] According to the United States Department of State, the SCF journal "is directed by Russia's Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) and closely affiliated with Russia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strate...ure_Foundation

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    You can bet Russia will throw every thing it has to defend.
    All they have left is the cannon fodder. These clowns...



    It is over for Russia. Kherson will fall next, as will Svatove.

  24. #8974
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    the two recently created countries.
    Recognised by whom?

    Links please

  25. #8975
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    Troy, whatever you think about snubbies turn of phrase he has provided some inciteful material
    No problem with the material; although some is incorrect, it is pretty good considering the dynamics of war.

    One still has to stay focussed on the big picture though and I dislike gloating, even if it is from the sidelines. There is no doubt that Putin is dangerous and unpredictable and Ukraine's allies have to tread very carefully in order to contain this war to Ukraine. Escalation is still a possibility and everything could explode very quickly. It is therefore good that some are still using a softer approach to the dilemma.

    Putin has lost his gamble and doesn't have the funds to buy his way out. He needs to leave the table but hasn't calmed down enough to work it out yet.

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