Ukraine war mega thread

[bsnub]

No more "Mr Putin is having his ass handed to him on a plate" then?

Right because striking a shopping mall loaded with civilians is so much winning. You are a full stop scumbag, but then again you had no problem with Russia bombing hospitals in Syria either.

[qwerty]

In all fairness, let me continue quoting the source that Sabang posted above:


…..and the two towns are seeing not remotely the level of damage wrought on Rubezhnoe just a few miles to the north, let alone on Mariupol, Volnovakha, Popasnaya, etc.
Per reader demand…

A number of new readers and YouTube followers have asked, why do I feel so sure that the KO-RO-NA is coming back in a big way, in a much more deadly form?
That is, more deadly for the VAKK-SYNN-AY-TTED (of all ages—VAKKSED is VAKKSED, I don’t believe children will be spared, this time.)

My simple, logical deductions are based on existing HOE-LEE SY-ENSSE—I suggest nothing exotic. See for yourself, in this piece from a few weeks ago.


While I am open to alternate news sources, I would wonder if this source's geopolitical knowledge is superior to this medical knowledge.

[bsnub]

In all fairness, let me continue quoting the source that Sabang posted above

A rightwing anti-vax site. It ties right into the Russian propaganda.

The American far-right's Russian embrace

The American far-right'''s Russian embrace | On Point

[sabang]

Well this "right wing anti-vax site" Says the Ukrainian armed forces have mostly scarpered from their latest formidable redoubt. We will know soon enough if he is right, again.

[Iceman123]

I agree at this point. The kids gloves need to come off, and we should start arming the Ukrainians properly. We have over 3500 M1 main battle tanks just sitting in storage. We need to start sending those over immediately. Just one of those could do enormous damage on the battlefield.

So US should be onside but not by their side.

Snubby you are being ridiculous, the Ukraine has virtually no chance against a superior force in numbers and equipment.

How about getting yourself a passport and getting over there, but no! typical armchair warrior eh!

[OhOh]

An interview of the ex- Chief of the Polish General Staff, a certain General Mieczysław Gocuł

GeneralMieczysław Gocuł

With a Polish media outlet. It is in Polish and very long.

He blasts NATO for failing to deliver on their promises.

The first question and answer:

"Gen. Mieczysław Gocuł:

The NATO summit is to convince us that we will win the war with Russia if, or rather when, it breaks outI am very concerned that the NATO summit in Madrid is going in the wrong direction. Instead of looking for ways to win peace, because this is the essence of the problem of the eastern flank, the summit is to convince us that we will win the future war if, or rather when, it happens -

says Gen. Mieczysław Gocuł, former Chief of the General Staff of the Polish Army.


First of all: NATO at the 2014 summit in Newport, by creating the Readiness Action Plan, increased the Response Force to 40,000. soldiers - including land, sea, air, space and cyber components. Now, in 2021-22 (because the Russians mobilized their forces for this war in October last year) we have a war. And what happened on NATO's eastern flank? US troops arrived, but importantly, the NATO Response Force did not arrive. And yet, if Russia's invasion of Ukraine close to our borders did not cause a reaction by the NATO Response Force, then it is necessary to ask the head of NATO whether the Alliance's crisis response procedures have been launched at all.


If the Pact triggered them, after the initiating phase (conflict detection), it would be necessary to move on to the next phase: strategic assessment by the commander of the combined NATO forces in Europe. Such an assessment should be presented by the commander at a meeting of the North Atlantic Council (NAC - NATO's most important decision-making body). After all, this assessment would be simple: Russia brought out over 150,000. soldiers and launched an invasion of Ukraine. It was therefore to be expected that the NAC would share the commander's assessment. The next step in NATO's crisis response should be to use Response Options Development. But nothing like that happened. We in Poland and the Baltic states understand the threat, but the approach of other NATO states is diametrically different.


Unfortunately, even those US troops now on the eastern flank have never been placed under NATO command. Thus, the Alliance's nerve, or command structure, has not been mobilized to coordinate the actions of the NATO Response Force, which also has not been deployed. So what if we have 40,000 in NATO? The Response Forces if they haven't moved?


And have you heard that the famous NATO Spearhead (Very High Readiness Joint Task Force - VJTF) appears in Poland or in the Baltic States? Also not. And yet it was created in 2014 - after Russia's war in the Donbas and the annexation of Crimea - and was supposed to react within 72 hours.


Since 40 thousand. did not move, it's 300,000 it won't move either. Since even the spearhead has not moved with the current state of leadership in the member states and NATO itself?


Yes. It is not a question of the number of declared forces, but of the lack of a decision. It is similar with our army - the key is not whether we have 100 or 300 thousand. soldiers, but what capabilities the military has and whether it has the ability to stop the Russian invasion. Let's forget about numbers. When humans flew with stone spears, the actual number was decisive. But not now."

The interview continues for another xxx paragraphs. He doesn't stop pulling his punches at NATO.

Gen Gocu?: NATO mówi, ?e nie oddamy Rosji ani pi?dzi ziemi. To jednak bajki. Putin si? z tego ?mieje | Polityka - Wiadomo?ci Gazeta.pl

[russellsimpson]

Can you stay in the other shit thread so that more sensible people can talk here?

Good one Snubbles.

Did anyone catch the expression on Erdowan's face after agreeing to support to support membership for the the Scandanavian nations joining NATO. God can only imagine the types of screws used on Turkey.

The nations of the G7 should be immediately putting a plan together to put an end to this war. The Ukraine will have to agree to cede considerable property to Russia, most if not all of the east. There will have to be a way to end this which is face saving for both parties. The show can't go on.

[Takeovers]

There will have to be a way to end this which is face saving for both parties.

There is just one way for Russia to save face.

Remove russian troops from all of Ukraine, including Crimea and send Putin to the war crimes tribunal at the Hague.

[sabang]

Dream on. Realists are looking for a realistic exit from a war that could and should have been easily avoided in the first place.

[misskit]

^ Yeah. The Russians should have stayed at home.

[misskit]

Biggest swap: 144 servicemen, including 95 Azovstal defenders, return home

As a result of the largest-scale POW exchange since the full-blown Russian invasion, 144 Ukrainian defenders were released from captivity.
That’s according to the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defense, Ukrinform reports.


"Another exchange of prisoners took place, thanks to which 144 Ukrainian defenders returned home. This is the largest swap since the full-scale Russian invasion. Of the 144 released, 95 are Azovstal defenders. Among them 43 are servicemen with the Azov Regiment,” the statement says.

Fifty-nine servicemen released in the effort represent the National Guard; 30 – Navy; 28 – the Armed Forces; 17 – the State Border Guard Service; nine - Territorial Defense forces; and 1 - National Police.


Of these, 23 are officers and 69 are sergeants and non-commissioned officers. The oldest of the released is 65, the youngest is 19.


It is noted that most of the released Ukrainians have sustained serious injuries: gunshot and shrapnel wounds, explosive injuries, burns, fractures, and amputations. All of them are now receiving appropriate emergency medical and psychological care.


The Coordination Headquarters continues its work toward ensuring the return of all Ukrainian defenders from Russian captivity.


As Ukrinform reported, on June 28, the Coordination held another exchange of prisoners according to the 17 to 15 formula.

Biggest swap: 144 servicemen, including 95 Azovstal defenders, return home

[misskit]

Russian military death toll in Ukraine war rises to 35,450

The Ukrainian Armed Forces killed about 35,450 Russian soldiers between February 24 and June 29, including 200 in the past day alone.
The General Staff of the Ukrainian Armed Forces said this in a Facebook post, according to an Ukrinform correspondent.


Ukrainian defenders also destroyed 1,572 (+5) enemy tanks, 3,720 (+16) armored fighting vehicles, 781 (+3) artillery systems, 246 (+3) multiple launch rocket systems, 103 (+1) anti-aircraft warfare systems, 217 (+0) warplanes, 185 (+0) helicopters, 640 (+4) operational and tactical level UAVs, 142 (+3) cruise missiles, 14 (+0) warships/boats, 2,598 (+9) other vehicles and tanker trucks, and 61 (+0) pieces of special equipment.



Russian military death toll in Ukraine war rises to 35,450

[misskit]

Russian leadership sees world as ‘Leningrad backstreet’ – Zelensky at NATO summit

President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky welcomed Sweden and Finland joining NATO, noting that the Russian leadership sees the world as a "Leningrad backstreet".


"While democratic states were calling on the Russian leadership to reason and morality, Russia was accumulating power and missiles. You, the democratic leaders, have called on it to respect international law, and tyrants understand only force. Nothing but force!" he said on Wednesday, speaking via video link at the NATO summit.


According to him, "Ukraine welcomes the decision to join Finland and Sweden to the North Atlantic Alliance. And it's good that it happened now - before Russia started acting against them as well. But is Russia doing something against them now in connection with this decision? No, it isn’t. And you see it."


"The Russian leadership has publicly stated that the Leningrad backstreets have taught them the rules of life. There, any attempts of dialogue and appeasement are perceived only as weakness and fear. There is no one to call to talk to when you need to strike back. You either win or you lose. This is how the Russian state sees the world now. And you cannot ignore this vision, you cannot avoid its true goals," Zelensky said.


According to him, artillery strikes on cities are explained by the fact that "the Russian army is doing everything so that as many people as possible leave the cities. So that there would be nothing but ruins. And then the so—called "second army of the world" enters these cities - already empty and dead."


"And it does not want to stop either in Donbas or anywhere in the south of Ukraine, it wants to absorb everyone in Europe, whom the Russian leadership considers its property, and not independent states, city by city. This is the real goal of Russia," Zelensky said.

Russian leadership sees world as ‘Leningrad backstreet’ – Zelensky at NATO summit

[Norton]

^ Yeah. The Russians should have stayed at home.

The bottom line for sure. Russia and the rest of the world would be far better off than they are now had Russia stayed home.

[bsnub]

Russia and the rest of the world would be far better off than they are now had Russia stayed home.

Key point of the day!

[sabang]

The whole of the World would be better of if these jerkwads had stayed at home. Calamity after calamity, Ukraine just the latest-


Jeffrey D. Sachs
27.06.2022 • 21:00

The war in Ukraine is the culmination of a 30-year project of the American neoconservative movement. The Biden Administration is packed with the same neocons who championed the US wars of choice in Serbia (1999), Afghanistan (2001), Iraq (2003), Syria (2011), Libya (2011), and who did so much to provoke Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. The neocon track record is one of unmitigated disaster, yet Biden has staffed his team with neocons. As a result, Biden is steering Ukraine, the US, and the European Union towards yet another geopolitical debacle. If Europe has any insight, it will separate itself from these US foreign policy debacles.

The neocon movement emerged in the 1970s around a group of public intellectuals, several of whom were influenced by University of Chicago political scientist Leo Strauss and Yale University classicist Donald Kagan. Neocon leaders included Norman Podhoretz, Irving Kristol, Paul Wolfowitz, Robert Kagan (son of Donald), Frederick Kagan (son of Donald), Victoria Nuland (wife of Robert), Elliott Cohen, Elliott Abrams, and Kimberley Allen Kagan (wife of Frederick).

The main message of the neocons is that the US must predominate in military power in every region of the world, and must confront rising regional powers that could someday challenge US global or regional dominance, most important Russia and China. For this purpose, US military force should be pre-positioned in hundreds of military bases around the world and the US should be prepared to lead wars of choice as necessary. The United Nations is to be used by the US only when useful for US purposes.

This approach was spelled out first by Paul Wolfowitz in his draft Defense Policy Guidance (DPG) written for the Department of Defense in 2002. The draft called for extending the US-led security network to the Central and Eastern Europe despite the explicit promise by German Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher in 1990 that German unification would not be followed by NATO’s eastward enlargement. Wolfowitz also made the case for American wars of choice, defending America’s right to act independently, even alone, in response to crises of concern to the US. According to General Wesley Clark, Wolfowitz already made clear to Clark in May 1991 that the US would lead regime-change operations in Iraq, Syria, and other former Soviet allies.

The neocons championed NATO enlargement to Ukraine even before that became official US policy under George W. Bush, Jr. in 2008. They viewed Ukraine’s NATO membership as key to US regional and global dominance. Robert Kagan spelled out the neocon case for NATO enlargement in April 2006:

[T]he Russians and Chinese see nothing natural in [the “color revolutions” of the former Soviet Union], only Western-backed coups designed to advance Western influence in strategically vital parts of the world. Are they so wrong? Might not the successful liberalization of Ukraine, urged and supported by the Western democracies, be but the prelude to the incorporation of that nation into NATO and the European Union — in short, the expansion of Western liberal hegemony?

........ The neocon outlook is based on an overriding false premise: that the US military, financial, technological, and economic superiority enables it to dictate terms in all regions of the world. It is a position of both remarkable hubris and remarkable disdain of evidence. Since the 1950s, the US has been stymied or defeated in nearly every regional conflict in which it has participated. Yet in the “battle for Ukraine,” the neocons were ready to provoke a military confrontation with Russia by expanding NATO over Russia’s vehement objections because they fervently believe that Russia will be defeated by US financial sanctions and NATO weaponry.

The Institute for the Study of War (ISW), a neocon think-tank led by Kimberley Allen Kagan (and backed by a who’s who of defense contractors such as General Dynamics and Raytheon), continues to promise a Ukrainian victory. Regarding Russia’s advances, the ISW offered a typical comment: “[R]egardless of which side holds the city [of Sievierodonetsk], the Russian offensive at the operational and strategic levels will probably have culminated, giving Ukraine the chance to restart its operational-level counteroffensives to push Russian forces back.”

The facts on the ground, however, suggest otherwise. The West’s economic sanctions have had little adverse impact on Russia, while their “boomerang” effect on the rest of the world has been large. Moreover, the US capacity to resupply Ukraine with ammunition and weaponry is seriously hamstrung by America’s limited production capacity and broken supply chains. Russia’s industrial capacity of course dwarfs that of Ukraine’s. Russia’s GDP was roughly 10X that of Ukraine before war, and Ukraine has now lost much of its industrial capacity in the war.

The most likely outcome of the current fighting is that Russia will conquer a large swath of Ukraine, perhaps leaving Ukraine landlocked or nearly so. Frustration will rise in Europe and the US with the military losses and the stagflationary consequences of war and sanctions. The knock-on effects could be devastating, if a right-wing demagogue in the US rises to power (or in the case of Trump, returns to power) promising to restore America’s faded military glory through dangerous escalation.
Instead of risking this disaster, the real solution is to end the neocon fantasies of the past 30 years and for Ukraine and Russia to return to the negotiating table, with NATO committing to end its commitment to the eastward enlargement to Ukraine and Georgia in return for a viable peace that respects and protects Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity.



FULL- Ukraine is the latest neocon disaster | eKathimerini.com

[misskit]

^ Hmmm. Aren’t you the one posting screeds by Pat Buchanan?

[bsnub]

Aren’t you the one posting screeds by Pat Buchanan?

Do not forget, King of the Neocons, Henry Kissinger. Sabangs hypocrisy is monumental. He will run anything up the flagpole that supports his flimsy narrative.

[sabang]

Henry Kissinger and Pat Buchanan are not Neo-cons. And they have both spoken out against the folly of this war.

[harrybarracuda]

should have been easily avoided in the first place.

Of course, Puffy had no need to invade at all. We all fucking know that, dumbarse.

[bsnub]

Henry Kissinger and Pat Buchanan are not Neo-cons. And they have both spoken out against the folly of this war.

It matters naught. This war is 100% of Putin's making and your sad pathetic attempt to paint it otherwise grew tiresome months ago.

[HermantheGerman]

Except it wasn't- it was aimed at the adjacent arms depot. Direct hit too.

...and so was the theater in Mariupol that was bombed by Putler???

So I guess Grosny was one big theater and arms depot, according to your peanut brain logic.

[HermantheGerman]

Russia holds the world record of killing their own people.
According to Putler Ukraine historically belongs to Russia.
I guess Putler wants no one to break Russia's world record.

Sorry, but I just can't see any logic to this senseless war. Especially now, when we see how dependent we are on Russian gas and oil. Russia had us by the balls, but Putin chose to sacrifice his own people instead of using economic pressure.

[Norton]

According to Putler Ukraine historically belongs to Russia

I just can't see any logic to this senseless war

Putin's logic in play here Herman.

[sabang]

by David StockmanPosted onJune 28, 2022


Washington’s cowardly proxy war against Russia reached a new level of absurdity over the weekend.


To wit, the G-7 knuckleheads declared an embargo on imports of Russia-sourced gold and forced Russia into technical default on its foreign debts by forbidding US companies from collecting the payments which Russian debtors had deposited in their accounts at non-sanctioned Russia banks.


In a word, ordinary commerce has become so weaponized by Washington that the world’s oldest money can no longer be freely exchanged on international markets. At the same time, interest payments made in good faith by Russian borrowers have been effectively seized and frozen in place by the US government.
And yet, where are the free enterprise Republicans?


Answer: So intoxicated with neocon-instigated war fevers that they are willing to subordinate the fundamental rights of US private property owners and traders to the pursuit of a Sanctions War against Russia – a "war" that has not been declared by Congress and that has nothing whatsoever to do with the liberty and security of the American homeland.


Indeed, the Washington-forced "default" is so preposterous as to suggest that officialdom has taken total leave of its senses. As it happens, Russia last week codified plans to pay bondholders in rubles under a decree signed by President Putin.


Under it terms, Russia sent ruble payments to accounts for foreign bondholders at unsanctioned Russian banks. Foreign investors were then authorized to freely convert the rubles into dollars or other foreign currencies, thereby receiving payment for 100% of the due amounts and in a form specified by the lending agreements.


In fact, the Russian Finance Ministry said it made roughly $400 million in such payments on Thursday and Friday to bondholders under the new mechanism. So there was actually no real borrower "default" about it.


Yet US and other western bondholders will struggle to move the money out of Russia without breaching Western sanctions. That’s because these payments must pass through Russia’s National Settlement Depository, which has been sanctioned by the European Union, while the U.S. has barred American banks from processing Russian debt payments since late May.


So, if that isn’t outright theft of property we don’t known what is. The US Treasury has effectively stolen $400 million of private property so that the Sunday afternoon warriors on the banks of the Potomac can pretend to make war on Russia, even as they encourage the bantam-weight now in charge of the Kiev government to send tens of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers and civilians to their deaths for no rational purpose whatsoever.

FULL- https://original.antiwar.com/David_Stockman/2022/06/27/washingtons-sanctions-war-kneecaps-the-west-not-russia/